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Re: Just wondering

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All, I was thinking back about having Klemp s picture on my desk at work. Of course, people would naturally ask me (until word got
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 8 10:54 AM
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      Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All,
      I was thinking back about having Klemp's
      picture on my desk at work. Of course, people
      would naturally ask me (until word got out) who
      he was. I would reply, "he's my spiritual mentor
      and guide."

      After first saying this it occurred to me "How long
      would I need a spiritual guide?" I never really thought
      about how long it would/should take. I never set
      a time-limit or had a goal line. I used to have my
      very own spiritual insights and Self-reliance and inner
      nudges until I became attached and dependent on
      another's direction and approval... for everything!
      Now, everything good was attributed to the Mahanta
      and everything bad was on me and a spiritual test
      HK had designed for me, or was past life or present
      life karma!

      In the beginning, when I first joined EK and bought
      into the whole package, I didn't really understand
      the initiation treadmill. Later, I saw what it took
      for advancement (promotion) and it didn't have
      anything to do with Higher Consciousness! I paid
      attention, listened to and observed the H.I.s! And,
      the only thing that has really "changed" is, Now, there
      are many more hoops for ECKists to jump through!

      The Restrictions and the Guidelines and the Training
      and the Volunteering and the Monetary Donations
      have all been pointed out, in one way or another, as
      a necessary requirement for promotion in rank
      (a meaningless number).

      One has to be noticed by volunteering, taking the
      training(s), teaching classes, doing intros, be well
      versed in the EK dogma, and be able to demonstrate
      the EK teachings, supposedly, in everyday life. This
      actually means playing the role and being able to talk
      the talk and make friends with the RESA and those
      H.I.s who will approve of your initiation. Even after
      doing everything you can do the initiation usually
      comes down to the consciousness of the RESA (it
      varies widely) and how one's personality comes across.
      Yes, Higher initiation in Eckankar, today, has to do
      more with personality than many realize. Then again...
      one's "acts" weigh very heavy as well! It has nothing
      to do with a higher spiritual evolution! It's just learning
      how to play "as if" game of delusion! But, where does
      that get the True Seeker? Nowhere! EK's another game,
      another religion, another delay from knowing the TRUTH.

      When does the original Seeker finally become Free
      and Independent and No Longer Needs an EK Membership
      Card? ECKists will never See, Know, or Be their own Master-
      ship in this Lifetime!

      Prometheus

      mish wrote:
      >
      > Hi, Non ekster and All!
      >
      > I liked your question and thought it was important!
      > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
      > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
      > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
      > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
      > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
      > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
      > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
      > train that I can't admit mistakes.
      >
      > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
      > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
      > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
      > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
      > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
      > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
      > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
      > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
      > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
      > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
      > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
      > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
      > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
      > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
      > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
      >
      > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
      > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
      > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
      > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
      >
      > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
      > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
      >
      > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
      > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
      > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
      > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
      > of eckankar! : )
      >
      > Mish
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I just thought I d bring this back up. After looking at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I m amazed to see that it has No spiritual value for
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 15 2:48 PM
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        Hello All,
        I just thought I'd bring this back up. After looking
        at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I'm amazed
        to see that it has No spiritual value for H.I.s. It's
        mostly just testimonials and sales promotion of
        ECK materials.


        mish wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Non ekster and All!
        >
        > I liked your question and thought it was important!
        > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
        > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
        > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
        > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
        > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
        > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
        > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
        > train that I can't admit mistakes.
        >
        > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
        > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
        > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
        > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
        > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
        > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
        > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
        > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
        > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
        > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
        > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
        > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
        > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
        > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
        > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
        >
        > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
        > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
        > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
        > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
        >
        > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
        > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
        >
        > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
        > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
        > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
        > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
        > of eckankar! : )
        >
        > Mish
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
        > > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
        > > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
        > > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
        > > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
        > > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
        > > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
        > > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
        > > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
        > > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
        > >
        > > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
        > > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
        > > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
        > > charity to actually help people ....
        > >
        > > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
        > > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
        > > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
        > > I get is the silent treatment.
        > >
        > > nonekster ; )
        > >
        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Re: Just wondering
        > >
        > > Hi All,
        > > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
        > > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
        > > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
        > > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
        > > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
        > > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
        > > small and two large pics of HK (official
        > > photo and another). I also had the
        > > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
        > > home.
        > >
        > > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
        > > to get their foot in the door to one's
        > > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
        > > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
        > > taken down at EK Centers.
        > >
        > > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
        > > thought Klemp might be a real Master
        > > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
        > > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
        > > Initiations (via observation) are false.
        > > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
        > > double talk and his books have No spiritual
        > > or unique substance.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > "Non ekster" wrote:
        > >
        > > How many of you carried around a picture
        > > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
        > > eckist?
        > >
        > > Mish wrote:
        > > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
        > > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
        > > carry any of those around with me, not even
        > > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
        > > stupid? LOL!
        > >
        >
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