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Just wondering... About The Physical Plane EK Church

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Non ekster and All, Yes, Klemp rules his Eckankar Church with No intent to expand like other religions do. Other religions have churches, temples, and
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 5, 2008
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      Hi Non ekster and All,
      Yes, Klemp rules his Eckankar Church with No
      intent to expand like other religions do. Other
      religions have churches, temples, and mosques
      spread out everywhere. Eckankar has only two
      temples (in the U.S.) that people can actually
      see and visit!

      Klemp wants control over the purse strings at
      the local level and doesn't really want to see an
      expansion because this will divert money away
      from the ESC. The only reason HK permits the
      EK Temple in Conn. to exist is because their EK
      Board (RESA) still makes a yearly donation ($) to
      the ESC and to Klemp and his cohorts' expenses
      in Eden Prairie, MN.

      After all of these years Why don't Local Eckists
      have a Local Church? Instead, Local Eckists have
      to Rent a Room. Why?

      BTW- Let's talk about "ECK Master" RAMI NURI.
      He guards the Shariyat "on the Pinda Lok, the
      PHYSICAL WORLD, at the... Temple of Golden
      Wisdom IN THE CITY OF RETZ, VENUS."
      [HK's EK LexiCon, page 172]

      Do Eckists really believe that there is an EK
      Wisdom Temple IN "THE PHYSICAL WORLD"
      on "VENUS?!"

      I think that a lot of ECKists can accept an ASTRAL
      PLANE Temple of Golden Wisdom, but RETZ, VENUS!

      If ECKists thought about this one point critically
      and with some logic and common sense they would
      realize that this requires the same "LEAP of FAITH"
      that Religions use to fool their followers.

      Eckists have just switched from their old
      orthodox religion to a new religion of Unorthodox
      lies and fantasy!

      Prometheus

      p.s.
      Maybe Harry Klemp could take a mini vacation
      to VENUS for a Spa Treatment and return looking
      as young as RAMI NURI. ;- )


      "Non ekster" wrote:
      >
      > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
      > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
      > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
      > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
      > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
      > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
      > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
      > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
      > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
      > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
      >
      > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
      > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
      > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
      > charity to actually help people ....
      >
      > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
      > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
      > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
      > I get is the silent treatment.
      >
      > nonekster ; )
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Re: Just wondering
      >
      > Hi All,
      > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
      > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
      > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
      > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
      > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
      > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
      > small and two large pics of HK (official
      > photo and another). I also had the
      > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
      > home.
      >
      > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
      > to get their foot in the door to one's
      > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
      > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
      > taken down at EK Centers.
      >
      > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
      > thought Klemp might be a real Master
      > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
      > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
      > Initiations (via observation) are false.
      > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
      > double talk and his books have No spiritual
      > or unique substance.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > "Non ekster" wrote:
      >
      > How many of you carried around a picture
      > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
      > eckist?
      >
      > Mish wrote:
      > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
      > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
      > carry any of those around with me, not even
      > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
      > stupid? LOL!
      >
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Non ekster and All! I liked your question and thought it was important! When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings and dealings of eckankar, I
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 8, 2008
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        Hi, Non ekster and All!

        I liked your question and thought it was important!
        When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
        and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
        relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
        don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
        for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
        money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
        myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
        train that I can't admit mistakes.

        I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
        problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
        from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
        mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
        are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
        dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
        well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
        maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
        jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
        is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
        begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
        mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
        not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
        try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
        they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.

        The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
        accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
        flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
        membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!

        Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
        to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.

        It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
        but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
        newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
        very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
        of eckankar! : )

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
        > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
        > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
        > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
        > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
        > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
        > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
        > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
        > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
        > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
        >
        > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
        > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
        > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
        > charity to actually help people ....
        >
        > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
        > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
        > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
        > I get is the silent treatment.
        >
        > nonekster ; )
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Re: Just wondering
        >
        > Hi All,
        > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
        > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
        > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
        > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
        > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
        > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
        > small and two large pics of HK (official
        > photo and another). I also had the
        > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
        > home.
        >
        > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
        > to get their foot in the door to one's
        > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
        > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
        > taken down at EK Centers.
        >
        > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
        > thought Klemp might be a real Master
        > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
        > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
        > Initiations (via observation) are false.
        > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
        > double talk and his books have No spiritual
        > or unique substance.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > "Non ekster" wrote:
        >
        > How many of you carried around a picture
        > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
        > eckist?
        >
        > Mish wrote:
        > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
        > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
        > carry any of those around with me, not even
        > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
        > stupid? LOL!
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All, I was thinking back about having Klemp s picture on my desk at work. Of course, people would naturally ask me (until word got
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 8, 2008
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          Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All,
          I was thinking back about having Klemp's
          picture on my desk at work. Of course, people
          would naturally ask me (until word got out) who
          he was. I would reply, "he's my spiritual mentor
          and guide."

          After first saying this it occurred to me "How long
          would I need a spiritual guide?" I never really thought
          about how long it would/should take. I never set
          a time-limit or had a goal line. I used to have my
          very own spiritual insights and Self-reliance and inner
          nudges until I became attached and dependent on
          another's direction and approval... for everything!
          Now, everything good was attributed to the Mahanta
          and everything bad was on me and a spiritual test
          HK had designed for me, or was past life or present
          life karma!

          In the beginning, when I first joined EK and bought
          into the whole package, I didn't really understand
          the initiation treadmill. Later, I saw what it took
          for advancement (promotion) and it didn't have
          anything to do with Higher Consciousness! I paid
          attention, listened to and observed the H.I.s! And,
          the only thing that has really "changed" is, Now, there
          are many more hoops for ECKists to jump through!

          The Restrictions and the Guidelines and the Training
          and the Volunteering and the Monetary Donations
          have all been pointed out, in one way or another, as
          a necessary requirement for promotion in rank
          (a meaningless number).

          One has to be noticed by volunteering, taking the
          training(s), teaching classes, doing intros, be well
          versed in the EK dogma, and be able to demonstrate
          the EK teachings, supposedly, in everyday life. This
          actually means playing the role and being able to talk
          the talk and make friends with the RESA and those
          H.I.s who will approve of your initiation. Even after
          doing everything you can do the initiation usually
          comes down to the consciousness of the RESA (it
          varies widely) and how one's personality comes across.
          Yes, Higher initiation in Eckankar, today, has to do
          more with personality than many realize. Then again...
          one's "acts" weigh very heavy as well! It has nothing
          to do with a higher spiritual evolution! It's just learning
          how to play "as if" game of delusion! But, where does
          that get the True Seeker? Nowhere! EK's another game,
          another religion, another delay from knowing the TRUTH.

          When does the original Seeker finally become Free
          and Independent and No Longer Needs an EK Membership
          Card? ECKists will never See, Know, or Be their own Master-
          ship in this Lifetime!

          Prometheus

          mish wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Non ekster and All!
          >
          > I liked your question and thought it was important!
          > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
          > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
          > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
          > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
          > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
          > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
          > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
          > train that I can't admit mistakes.
          >
          > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
          > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
          > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
          > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
          > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
          > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
          > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
          > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
          > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
          > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
          > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
          > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
          > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
          > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
          > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
          >
          > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
          > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
          > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
          > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
          >
          > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
          > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
          >
          > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
          > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
          > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
          > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
          > of eckankar! : )
          >
          > Mish
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I just thought I d bring this back up. After looking at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I m amazed to see that it has No spiritual value for
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 15, 2008
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            Hello All,
            I just thought I'd bring this back up. After looking
            at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I'm amazed
            to see that it has No spiritual value for H.I.s. It's
            mostly just testimonials and sales promotion of
            ECK materials.


            mish wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Non ekster and All!
            >
            > I liked your question and thought it was important!
            > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
            > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
            > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
            > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
            > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
            > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
            > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
            > train that I can't admit mistakes.
            >
            > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
            > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
            > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
            > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
            > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
            > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
            > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
            > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
            > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
            > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
            > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
            > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
            > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
            > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
            > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
            >
            > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
            > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
            > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
            > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
            >
            > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
            > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
            >
            > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
            > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
            > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
            > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
            > of eckankar! : )
            >
            > Mish
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
            > > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
            > > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
            > > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
            > > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
            > > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
            > > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
            > > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
            > > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
            > > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
            > >
            > > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
            > > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
            > > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
            > > charity to actually help people ....
            > >
            > > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
            > > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
            > > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
            > > I get is the silent treatment.
            > >
            > > nonekster ; )
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Re: Just wondering
            > >
            > > Hi All,
            > > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
            > > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
            > > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
            > > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
            > > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
            > > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
            > > small and two large pics of HK (official
            > > photo and another). I also had the
            > > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
            > > home.
            > >
            > > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
            > > to get their foot in the door to one's
            > > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
            > > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
            > > taken down at EK Centers.
            > >
            > > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
            > > thought Klemp might be a real Master
            > > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
            > > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
            > > Initiations (via observation) are false.
            > > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
            > > double talk and his books have No spiritual
            > > or unique substance.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > > "Non ekster" wrote:
            > >
            > > How many of you carried around a picture
            > > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
            > > eckist?
            > >
            > > Mish wrote:
            > > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
            > > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
            > > carry any of those around with me, not even
            > > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
            > > stupid? LOL!
            > >
            >
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