Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Just wondering

Expand Messages
  • Non ekster
    After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the name of religion,
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 5, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
      on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
      name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
      thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
      when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
      the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
      somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
      fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
      impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
      the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol

      My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
      me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
      an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
      charity to actually help people ....

      I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
      much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
      hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
      I get is the silent treatment.

      nonekster ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Re: Just wondering

      Hi All,
      Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
      of PT and one B&W and one color pic
      of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
      on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
      in each vehicle. I had one large and one
      small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
      small and two large pics of HK (official
      photo and another). I also had the
      portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
      home.

      A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
      to get their foot in the door to one's
      subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
      had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
      taken down at EK Centers.

      I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
      thought Klemp might be a real Master
      until I discovered that he wasn't and that
      the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
      Initiations (via observation) are false.
      Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
      double talk and his books have No spiritual
      or unique substance.

      Prometheus

      "Non ekster" wrote:

      How many of you carried around a picture
      of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
      eckist?

      Mish wrote:
      I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
      the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
      carry any of those around with me, not even
      in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
      stupid? LOL!
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Non ekster and All, Yes, Klemp rules his Eckankar Church with No intent to expand like other religions do. Other religions have churches, temples, and
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 5, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Non ekster and All,
        Yes, Klemp rules his Eckankar Church with No
        intent to expand like other religions do. Other
        religions have churches, temples, and mosques
        spread out everywhere. Eckankar has only two
        temples (in the U.S.) that people can actually
        see and visit!

        Klemp wants control over the purse strings at
        the local level and doesn't really want to see an
        expansion because this will divert money away
        from the ESC. The only reason HK permits the
        EK Temple in Conn. to exist is because their EK
        Board (RESA) still makes a yearly donation ($) to
        the ESC and to Klemp and his cohorts' expenses
        in Eden Prairie, MN.

        After all of these years Why don't Local Eckists
        have a Local Church? Instead, Local Eckists have
        to Rent a Room. Why?

        BTW- Let's talk about "ECK Master" RAMI NURI.
        He guards the Shariyat "on the Pinda Lok, the
        PHYSICAL WORLD, at the... Temple of Golden
        Wisdom IN THE CITY OF RETZ, VENUS."
        [HK's EK LexiCon, page 172]

        Do Eckists really believe that there is an EK
        Wisdom Temple IN "THE PHYSICAL WORLD"
        on "VENUS?!"

        I think that a lot of ECKists can accept an ASTRAL
        PLANE Temple of Golden Wisdom, but RETZ, VENUS!

        If ECKists thought about this one point critically
        and with some logic and common sense they would
        realize that this requires the same "LEAP of FAITH"
        that Religions use to fool their followers.

        Eckists have just switched from their old
        orthodox religion to a new religion of Unorthodox
        lies and fantasy!

        Prometheus

        p.s.
        Maybe Harry Klemp could take a mini vacation
        to VENUS for a Spa Treatment and return looking
        as young as RAMI NURI. ;- )


        "Non ekster" wrote:
        >
        > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
        > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
        > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
        > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
        > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
        > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
        > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
        > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
        > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
        > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
        >
        > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
        > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
        > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
        > charity to actually help people ....
        >
        > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
        > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
        > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
        > I get is the silent treatment.
        >
        > nonekster ; )
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Re: Just wondering
        >
        > Hi All,
        > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
        > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
        > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
        > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
        > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
        > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
        > small and two large pics of HK (official
        > photo and another). I also had the
        > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
        > home.
        >
        > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
        > to get their foot in the door to one's
        > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
        > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
        > taken down at EK Centers.
        >
        > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
        > thought Klemp might be a real Master
        > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
        > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
        > Initiations (via observation) are false.
        > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
        > double talk and his books have No spiritual
        > or unique substance.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > "Non ekster" wrote:
        >
        > How many of you carried around a picture
        > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
        > eckist?
        >
        > Mish wrote:
        > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
        > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
        > carry any of those around with me, not even
        > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
        > stupid? LOL!
        >
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, Non ekster and All! I liked your question and thought it was important! When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings and dealings of eckankar, I
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 8, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, Non ekster and All!

          I liked your question and thought it was important!
          When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
          and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
          relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
          don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
          for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
          money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
          myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
          train that I can't admit mistakes.

          I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
          problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
          from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
          mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
          are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
          dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
          well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
          maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
          jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
          is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
          begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
          mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
          not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
          try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
          they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.

          The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
          accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
          flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
          membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!

          Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
          to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.

          It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
          but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
          newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
          very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
          of eckankar! : )

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
          > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
          > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
          > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
          > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
          > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
          > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
          > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
          > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
          > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
          >
          > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
          > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
          > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
          > charity to actually help people ....
          >
          > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
          > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
          > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
          > I get is the silent treatment.
          >
          > nonekster ; )
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Re: Just wondering
          >
          > Hi All,
          > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
          > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
          > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
          > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
          > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
          > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
          > small and two large pics of HK (official
          > photo and another). I also had the
          > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
          > home.
          >
          > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
          > to get their foot in the door to one's
          > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
          > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
          > taken down at EK Centers.
          >
          > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
          > thought Klemp might be a real Master
          > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
          > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
          > Initiations (via observation) are false.
          > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
          > double talk and his books have No spiritual
          > or unique substance.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > "Non ekster" wrote:
          >
          > How many of you carried around a picture
          > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
          > eckist?
          >
          > Mish wrote:
          > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
          > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
          > carry any of those around with me, not even
          > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
          > stupid? LOL!
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All, I was thinking back about having Klemp s picture on my desk at work. Of course, people would naturally ask me (until word got
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 8, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All,
            I was thinking back about having Klemp's
            picture on my desk at work. Of course, people
            would naturally ask me (until word got out) who
            he was. I would reply, "he's my spiritual mentor
            and guide."

            After first saying this it occurred to me "How long
            would I need a spiritual guide?" I never really thought
            about how long it would/should take. I never set
            a time-limit or had a goal line. I used to have my
            very own spiritual insights and Self-reliance and inner
            nudges until I became attached and dependent on
            another's direction and approval... for everything!
            Now, everything good was attributed to the Mahanta
            and everything bad was on me and a spiritual test
            HK had designed for me, or was past life or present
            life karma!

            In the beginning, when I first joined EK and bought
            into the whole package, I didn't really understand
            the initiation treadmill. Later, I saw what it took
            for advancement (promotion) and it didn't have
            anything to do with Higher Consciousness! I paid
            attention, listened to and observed the H.I.s! And,
            the only thing that has really "changed" is, Now, there
            are many more hoops for ECKists to jump through!

            The Restrictions and the Guidelines and the Training
            and the Volunteering and the Monetary Donations
            have all been pointed out, in one way or another, as
            a necessary requirement for promotion in rank
            (a meaningless number).

            One has to be noticed by volunteering, taking the
            training(s), teaching classes, doing intros, be well
            versed in the EK dogma, and be able to demonstrate
            the EK teachings, supposedly, in everyday life. This
            actually means playing the role and being able to talk
            the talk and make friends with the RESA and those
            H.I.s who will approve of your initiation. Even after
            doing everything you can do the initiation usually
            comes down to the consciousness of the RESA (it
            varies widely) and how one's personality comes across.
            Yes, Higher initiation in Eckankar, today, has to do
            more with personality than many realize. Then again...
            one's "acts" weigh very heavy as well! It has nothing
            to do with a higher spiritual evolution! It's just learning
            how to play "as if" game of delusion! But, where does
            that get the True Seeker? Nowhere! EK's another game,
            another religion, another delay from knowing the TRUTH.

            When does the original Seeker finally become Free
            and Independent and No Longer Needs an EK Membership
            Card? ECKists will never See, Know, or Be their own Master-
            ship in this Lifetime!

            Prometheus

            mish wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Non ekster and All!
            >
            > I liked your question and thought it was important!
            > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
            > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
            > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
            > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
            > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
            > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
            > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
            > train that I can't admit mistakes.
            >
            > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
            > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
            > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
            > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
            > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
            > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
            > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
            > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
            > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
            > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
            > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
            > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
            > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
            > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
            > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
            >
            > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
            > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
            > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
            > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
            >
            > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
            > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
            >
            > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
            > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
            > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
            > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
            > of eckankar! : )
            >
            > Mish
          • prometheus_973
            Hello All, I just thought I d bring this back up. After looking at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I m amazed to see that it has No spiritual value for
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 15, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello All,
              I just thought I'd bring this back up. After looking
              at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I'm amazed
              to see that it has No spiritual value for H.I.s. It's
              mostly just testimonials and sales promotion of
              ECK materials.


              mish wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Non ekster and All!
              >
              > I liked your question and thought it was important!
              > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
              > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
              > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
              > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
              > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
              > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
              > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
              > train that I can't admit mistakes.
              >
              > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
              > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
              > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
              > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
              > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
              > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
              > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
              > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
              > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
              > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
              > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
              > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
              > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
              > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
              > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
              >
              > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
              > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
              > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
              > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
              >
              > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
              > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
              >
              > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
              > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
              > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
              > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
              > of eckankar! : )
              >
              > Mish
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
              > > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
              > > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
              > > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
              > > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
              > > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
              > > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
              > > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
              > > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
              > > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
              > >
              > > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
              > > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
              > > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
              > > charity to actually help people ....
              > >
              > > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
              > > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
              > > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
              > > I get is the silent treatment.
              > >
              > > nonekster ; )
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Re: Just wondering
              > >
              > > Hi All,
              > > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
              > > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
              > > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
              > > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
              > > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
              > > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
              > > small and two large pics of HK (official
              > > photo and another). I also had the
              > > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
              > > home.
              > >
              > > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
              > > to get their foot in the door to one's
              > > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
              > > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
              > > taken down at EK Centers.
              > >
              > > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
              > > thought Klemp might be a real Master
              > > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
              > > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
              > > Initiations (via observation) are false.
              > > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
              > > double talk and his books have No spiritual
              > > or unique substance.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > "Non ekster" wrote:
              > >
              > > How many of you carried around a picture
              > > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
              > > eckist?
              > >
              > > Mish wrote:
              > > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
              > > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
              > > carry any of those around with me, not even
              > > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
              > > stupid? LOL!
              > >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.