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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Just wondering

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  • Ingrid
    I did - of course! :-) Ingrid ... From: Non ekster To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 1:46:19 PM
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 4, 2008
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      I did - of course! :-)

      Ingrid



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Non ekster <eckchains@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 1:46:19 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Just wondering

      How many of you carried around a picture of Harold Klemp with you when
      you were an eckist?




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    • prometheus_973
      I wonder when Klemp will come out with a new updated official photo? Is this done every three years? When was the last time because he looks a lot older in
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 4, 2008
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        I wonder when Klemp will come out with
        a new updated "official photo?" Is this done
        every three years? When was the last time
        because he looks a lot older in recent pics
        than he does in the Wisdom Notes "official
        photo!"

        These "official photos" have become a kind
        of a Catch-22 for Harry. On one hand the
        $25.00 "donation" for the "official photo"
        brought in money because every EK Center
        had to have a current one hanging up and
        another for display when doing outside events...
        intros, roundtables, book discussions, etc.

        On the other hand HK's Current photos are
        showing old Harry aging. Look at the front
        page photo on The Mystic World. Maybe that's
        the purpose of the "new" ECK Master Portrait.
        This way HK is forever looking young(er), whereas,
        HK's real life appearance in the "official photo"
        is forever aging.

        This would be a good reason for Not traveling
        to EK Seminars to see Harry in the flesh. Just
        stay home and remember him or imagine him
        for what he used to look like before those "DNA
        Effects" caught up to him... like it does with
        everyone (except Rebazar and how many other
        ECK Masters?)!

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hi All,
        > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
        > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
        > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
        > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
        > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
        > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
        > small and two large pics of HK (official
        > photo and another). I also had the
        > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
        > home.
        >
        > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
        > to get their foot in the door to one's
        > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
        > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
        > taken down at EK Centers.
        >
        > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
        > thought Klemp might be a real Master
        > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
        > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
        > Initiations (via observation) are false.
        > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
        > double talk and his books have No spiritual
        > or unique substance.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > "Non ekster" wrote:
        >
        > How many of you carried around a picture
        > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
        > eckist?
        >
        > Mish wrote:
        > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
        > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
        > carry any of those around with me, not even
        > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
        > stupid? LOL!
        >
      • Non ekster
        After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the name of religion,
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 5, 2008
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          After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
          on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
          name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
          thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
          when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
          the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
          somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
          fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
          impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
          the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol

          My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
          me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
          an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
          charity to actually help people ....

          I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
          much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
          hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
          I get is the silent treatment.

          nonekster ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Re: Just wondering

          Hi All,
          Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
          of PT and one B&W and one color pic
          of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
          on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
          in each vehicle. I had one large and one
          small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
          small and two large pics of HK (official
          photo and another). I also had the
          portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
          home.

          A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
          to get their foot in the door to one's
          subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
          had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
          taken down at EK Centers.

          I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
          thought Klemp might be a real Master
          until I discovered that he wasn't and that
          the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
          Initiations (via observation) are false.
          Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
          double talk and his books have No spiritual
          or unique substance.

          Prometheus

          "Non ekster" wrote:

          How many of you carried around a picture
          of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
          eckist?

          Mish wrote:
          I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
          the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
          carry any of those around with me, not even
          in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
          stupid? LOL!
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Non ekster and All, Yes, Klemp rules his Eckankar Church with No intent to expand like other religions do. Other religions have churches, temples, and
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 5, 2008
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            Hi Non ekster and All,
            Yes, Klemp rules his Eckankar Church with No
            intent to expand like other religions do. Other
            religions have churches, temples, and mosques
            spread out everywhere. Eckankar has only two
            temples (in the U.S.) that people can actually
            see and visit!

            Klemp wants control over the purse strings at
            the local level and doesn't really want to see an
            expansion because this will divert money away
            from the ESC. The only reason HK permits the
            EK Temple in Conn. to exist is because their EK
            Board (RESA) still makes a yearly donation ($) to
            the ESC and to Klemp and his cohorts' expenses
            in Eden Prairie, MN.

            After all of these years Why don't Local Eckists
            have a Local Church? Instead, Local Eckists have
            to Rent a Room. Why?

            BTW- Let's talk about "ECK Master" RAMI NURI.
            He guards the Shariyat "on the Pinda Lok, the
            PHYSICAL WORLD, at the... Temple of Golden
            Wisdom IN THE CITY OF RETZ, VENUS."
            [HK's EK LexiCon, page 172]

            Do Eckists really believe that there is an EK
            Wisdom Temple IN "THE PHYSICAL WORLD"
            on "VENUS?!"

            I think that a lot of ECKists can accept an ASTRAL
            PLANE Temple of Golden Wisdom, but RETZ, VENUS!

            If ECKists thought about this one point critically
            and with some logic and common sense they would
            realize that this requires the same "LEAP of FAITH"
            that Religions use to fool their followers.

            Eckists have just switched from their old
            orthodox religion to a new religion of Unorthodox
            lies and fantasy!

            Prometheus

            p.s.
            Maybe Harry Klemp could take a mini vacation
            to VENUS for a Spa Treatment and return looking
            as young as RAMI NURI. ;- )


            "Non ekster" wrote:
            >
            > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
            > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
            > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
            > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
            > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
            > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
            > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
            > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
            > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
            > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
            >
            > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
            > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
            > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
            > charity to actually help people ....
            >
            > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
            > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
            > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
            > I get is the silent treatment.
            >
            > nonekster ; )
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Re: Just wondering
            >
            > Hi All,
            > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
            > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
            > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
            > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
            > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
            > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
            > small and two large pics of HK (official
            > photo and another). I also had the
            > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
            > home.
            >
            > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
            > to get their foot in the door to one's
            > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
            > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
            > taken down at EK Centers.
            >
            > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
            > thought Klemp might be a real Master
            > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
            > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
            > Initiations (via observation) are false.
            > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
            > double talk and his books have No spiritual
            > or unique substance.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > "Non ekster" wrote:
            >
            > How many of you carried around a picture
            > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
            > eckist?
            >
            > Mish wrote:
            > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
            > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
            > carry any of those around with me, not even
            > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
            > stupid? LOL!
            >
          • mishmisha9
            Hi, Non ekster and All! I liked your question and thought it was important! When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings and dealings of eckankar, I
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 8, 2008
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              Hi, Non ekster and All!

              I liked your question and thought it was important!
              When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
              and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
              relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
              don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
              for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
              money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
              myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
              train that I can't admit mistakes.

              I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
              problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
              from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
              mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
              are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
              dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
              well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
              maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
              jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
              is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
              begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
              mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
              not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
              try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
              they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.

              The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
              accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
              flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
              membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!

              Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
              to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.

              It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
              but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
              newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
              very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
              of eckankar! : )

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
              > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
              > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
              > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
              > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
              > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
              > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
              > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
              > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
              > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
              >
              > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
              > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
              > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
              > charity to actually help people ....
              >
              > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
              > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
              > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
              > I get is the silent treatment.
              >
              > nonekster ; )
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Re: Just wondering
              >
              > Hi All,
              > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
              > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
              > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
              > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
              > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
              > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
              > small and two large pics of HK (official
              > photo and another). I also had the
              > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
              > home.
              >
              > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
              > to get their foot in the door to one's
              > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
              > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
              > taken down at EK Centers.
              >
              > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
              > thought Klemp might be a real Master
              > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
              > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
              > Initiations (via observation) are false.
              > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
              > double talk and his books have No spiritual
              > or unique substance.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > "Non ekster" wrote:
              >
              > How many of you carried around a picture
              > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
              > eckist?
              >
              > Mish wrote:
              > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
              > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
              > carry any of those around with me, not even
              > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
              > stupid? LOL!
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All, I was thinking back about having Klemp s picture on my desk at work. Of course, people would naturally ask me (until word got
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 8, 2008
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                Hi Mish, Non ekster, and All,
                I was thinking back about having Klemp's
                picture on my desk at work. Of course, people
                would naturally ask me (until word got out) who
                he was. I would reply, "he's my spiritual mentor
                and guide."

                After first saying this it occurred to me "How long
                would I need a spiritual guide?" I never really thought
                about how long it would/should take. I never set
                a time-limit or had a goal line. I used to have my
                very own spiritual insights and Self-reliance and inner
                nudges until I became attached and dependent on
                another's direction and approval... for everything!
                Now, everything good was attributed to the Mahanta
                and everything bad was on me and a spiritual test
                HK had designed for me, or was past life or present
                life karma!

                In the beginning, when I first joined EK and bought
                into the whole package, I didn't really understand
                the initiation treadmill. Later, I saw what it took
                for advancement (promotion) and it didn't have
                anything to do with Higher Consciousness! I paid
                attention, listened to and observed the H.I.s! And,
                the only thing that has really "changed" is, Now, there
                are many more hoops for ECKists to jump through!

                The Restrictions and the Guidelines and the Training
                and the Volunteering and the Monetary Donations
                have all been pointed out, in one way or another, as
                a necessary requirement for promotion in rank
                (a meaningless number).

                One has to be noticed by volunteering, taking the
                training(s), teaching classes, doing intros, be well
                versed in the EK dogma, and be able to demonstrate
                the EK teachings, supposedly, in everyday life. This
                actually means playing the role and being able to talk
                the talk and make friends with the RESA and those
                H.I.s who will approve of your initiation. Even after
                doing everything you can do the initiation usually
                comes down to the consciousness of the RESA (it
                varies widely) and how one's personality comes across.
                Yes, Higher initiation in Eckankar, today, has to do
                more with personality than many realize. Then again...
                one's "acts" weigh very heavy as well! It has nothing
                to do with a higher spiritual evolution! It's just learning
                how to play "as if" game of delusion! But, where does
                that get the True Seeker? Nowhere! EK's another game,
                another religion, another delay from knowing the TRUTH.

                When does the original Seeker finally become Free
                and Independent and No Longer Needs an EK Membership
                Card? ECKists will never See, Know, or Be their own Master-
                ship in this Lifetime!

                Prometheus

                mish wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Non ekster and All!
                >
                > I liked your question and thought it was important!
                > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
                > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
                > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
                > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
                > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
                > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
                > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
                > train that I can't admit mistakes.
                >
                > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
                > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
                > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
                > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
                > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
                > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
                > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
                > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
                > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
                > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
                > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
                > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
                > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
                > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
                > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
                >
                > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
                > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
                > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
                > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
                >
                > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
                > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
                >
                > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
                > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
                > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
                > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
                > of eckankar! : )
                >
                > Mish
              • prometheus_973
                Hello All, I just thought I d bring this back up. After looking at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I m amazed to see that it has No spiritual value for
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 15, 2008
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                  Hello All,
                  I just thought I'd bring this back up. After looking
                  at a copy of the H.I. Letter sent to me I'm amazed
                  to see that it has No spiritual value for H.I.s. It's
                  mostly just testimonials and sales promotion of
                  ECK materials.


                  mish wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi, Non ekster and All!
                  >
                  > I liked your question and thought it was important!
                  > When we former eckists criticize the scamming wheelings
                  > and dealings of eckankar, I think our comments are more
                  > relevant having been there and done that. For myself, I
                  > don't like to own up to making mistakes such as falling
                  > for the scam of eckankar and wasting so much time and
                  > money, but I can do it easily enough anyway. I don't view
                  > myself as infallible or feel that my ego is like a runaway
                  > train that I can't admit mistakes.
                  >
                  > I think that many of the old time h.i. eckists have a huge
                  > problem with ego that prevents them from walking away
                  > from the scam. They'd feel too foolish. I think Prometheus
                  > mentioned ego in one of his recent posts. And then there
                  > are the chelas that have gone even beyond ego into the
                  > dimensions of deep delusion. They function in society
                  > well enough to stay out of the mental institutions, even
                  > maintain employment (but some seem to struggle at holding
                  > jobs which makes me suspect that their delusional behavior
                  > is a problem) and appear okay on the surface. When they
                  > begin to speak though--their spin on eckankar and the
                  > mahanta, well, then outsiders can see there is something
                  > not quite right. Because they feign being "nice" in order to
                  > try to lure others into eckankar (doing the mahanta's bidding),
                  > they are usually tolerated, but yet viewed skeptically.
                  >
                  > The U.S. is very tolerate of religion, so eckankar is a bit
                  > accepted as a "to each his own" religious belief system. Eckankar
                  > flies under the radar of public scrutiny because of its low
                  > membership and because it doesn't make a lot of noise! LOL!
                  >
                  > Yet, Klemp and Company are able to scam enough folowers
                  > to keep the coffers full and allow themselves a nice life.
                  >
                  > It doesn't matter so much about the deeply entrenched eckists,
                  > but if ESA can help some to leave the org and to keep others,
                  > newbies and younger members, from joining--well, I am
                  > very happy to state that I did some nutty things as a member
                  > of eckankar! : )
                  >
                  > Mish
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster" <eckchains@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > After reading these responses, I must admit that I unwittingly put you
                  > > on the spot. I too have done many interesting and weird things in the
                  > > name of religion, but especially the New Age religions because I
                  > > thought I was escaping to a greater freedom. I basically quit eckankar
                  > > when Klemp came on the scene, but even before that I had problems with
                  > > the pictures, but also had a very active imagination and felt that
                  > > somehow I was more special than everyone else in the normal world. In
                  > > fact, I was so deluded, that when Nixon resigned rather than be
                  > > impeached, I came very close to sending him a letter about eckankar as
                  > > the truth beyond any illusion on earth like blah, blah, blah.... lol
                  > >
                  > > My eck family still carries around the eck master photo and it creeps
                  > > me out. It's actually worse than organized religion. It's a photo of
                  > > an idiot wasting the members money. If they at least had an eck
                  > > charity to actually help people ....
                  > >
                  > > I don't know how to help. I want to help, but it seems that after so
                  > > much time, the level of dejected delusion is so entrenched that it is
                  > > hopeless. It's that Higher Initiate VANITY, Holier than thou crap. All
                  > > I get is the silent treatment.
                  > >
                  > > nonekster ; )
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Re: Just wondering
                  > >
                  > > Hi All,
                  > > Okay, I admit that I carried a B&W pic
                  > > of PT and one B&W and one color pic
                  > > of Harry in my wallet. I had a pic of Harry
                  > > on my desk at work and had a pic of HK
                  > > in each vehicle. I had one large and one
                  > > small pic of PT at home, as well as, one
                  > > small and two large pics of HK (official
                  > > photo and another). I also had the
                  > > portraits of the fictional EK Masters at
                  > > home.
                  > >
                  > > A Black Magician (HK) uses these pics
                  > > to get their foot in the door to one's
                  > > subconscious mind. This is Why Klemp
                  > > had his Master's (Darwin Gross) pictures
                  > > taken down at EK Centers.
                  > >
                  > > I admit I was hopeful and gullible and
                  > > thought Klemp might be a real Master
                  > > until I discovered that he wasn't and that
                  > > the Higher Consciousness of Higher EK
                  > > Initiations (via observation) are false.
                  > > Klemp is full of Religious Lower Plane
                  > > double talk and his books have No spiritual
                  > > or unique substance.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > "Non ekster" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > How many of you carried around a picture
                  > > of Harold Klemp with you when you were an
                  > > eckist?
                  > >
                  > > Mish wrote:
                  > > I had pics of the idiot in my home and also
                  > > the imaginary eck masters, etc--but I didn't
                  > > carry any of those around with me, not even
                  > > in my car! But how nutty is that, not to mention
                  > > stupid? LOL!
                  > >
                  >
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