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Re: "As Above So Below" or B.S. Rolls Downhill!

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Prometheus and All! This is an interesting post about the inner and outer confusion that eckists seem to experience--obviously created by the cult eck
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 3, 2008
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      Hi, Prometheus and All!

      This is an interesting post about the inner and outer confusion that
      eckists seem to experience--obviously created by the cult eck
      teachings/techniques in order to fool chelas. Too bad because it is so
      disruptive to "normal" life, and makes those who are drifting off into
      the inner worlds frequently and on purpose, all the more delusional!
      Out of sync with the real world. There's simply not enough institutions
      and therapists to help these delusional minds as is evidenced by HK
      being released from the mental institution, freeing him to become the
      lying con man he is! LOL!

      Prometheus' questions about why chelas go to the bother and expense
      of traveling to seminars, paying membership dues and so forth, when
      most of the action is taking place on the inner planes, well, here is an
      answer that Steve R posted on HuChat that explains why he goes to
      seminars, and shows how he is attempting to smooth over the lies about how
      HK received the rod of eck power (which is not real; it's only imaginary
      anyway--LOL), but Steve R's post is a very good example of a delusional
      mind, one of many in the eck fold. It is interesting that eckists like Niels
      are commenting on Darwin passing the rod of eck power to HK; Darwin
      previously having received it from Rebazar so this is eck history difficult
      to explain away. Yet it is so fascinating that this doesn't seem to trouble
      eckists like Steve R at all! Here's the little discussion between Niels and
      Steve R:

      "Niels-Jul Yrvin wrote:

      About The rod

      May be I am wrong but to me Darwin got the Rod from Rebazar Tarz. I started
      my ECK life in 1988 and the information that reached me was that Darwin
      himself transferred the rod of ECK power to Sri Harold. Sorry if I am wrong
      about this.

      Take care in ECK
      Niels-Jul

      >

      Niels-Jul,

      You are not wrong. I joined Eckankar in 1975 and was able to meet and
      shake hands with the Living ECK Master of the time that year. It was a
      special event in my life. A few years later, when the Rod of Power was
      passed to Sri Harold quite a few people had real trouble with the
      transition. Many were attached to the outer personality of the former
      Living ECK Master, and had great difficulty following the Mahanta.

      One of the things I am very grateful for is the way Sri Harold tries to
      separate his own personality from his role as the Mahanta, the Living
      ECK Master. He no longer goes out like a politician to shake hands and
      gain favor on that level. He has really emphasized our reliance on his
      role as the inner master. When, at some time in the future he needs to
      pass the Rod of Power on to the next Living ECK Master, I expect the
      transition will be smoother.

      Over the years I have seen many spiritual teachers and talked to the
      followers of many paths. Most of the time, it seems to me, the loyalty
      of the followers is more to the "cult of personality" . Eckankar is 90%
      on the inner.

      By the way, I have been able to shake hands with Sri Harold many times
      on the inner, in dreams and in contemplation.

      With Love in ECK,

      Steve"

      How do eckists reconcile that Darwin received the rod of eck power from
      Rebazar? How do they reconcile that Darwin passed it on to HK--and then
      Darwin is kicked out of eckankar? How do these lies right under the chelas
      noses continue to be disregarded?? Only delusional minds could know this
      and continue to believe in HK and the eck teachings?

      Funny, too, that Steve R doesn't see himself as having a "cult personality"
      --but it would be too painful, I guess. Those krispy creme donuts must
      be consoling during his 10% time spent on the outer! LOL!

      Mish


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > In Eckankar there are supposed to be
      > Only "Two Attributes of the Godhead"
      > the "OUTER" (Saguna) and the "INNER"
      > (Nirguna).
      >
      > However, most Eckists don't understand
      > the difference between the Real "Outer"
      > and the Real "Inner!" They don't see that
      > the Inner Planes are a part of the "Outer."
      >
      > SAGUNA is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD"
      > (With Qualities) and has "eternal reality,
      > consciousness, and joy experienced at
      > God-Realization." [EK Lexicon pg.178]
      >
      > However, SAGUNA BRAHM is "LORD SOHANG,
      > ruler of the SAGUNA LOK, the upper division
      > of the Mind Plane, or the ETHERIC PLANE,
      > Who has Jurisdiction Over ALL Entities and
      > Beings Living On This Plane." [pg.178]
      >
      > Therefore, God-Realization is experienced
      > under the Jurisdiction of LORD SOHANG and
      > on the ETHERIC PLANE (SAGUNA LOK) and
      > this is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD."
      >
      > Also, this "Outer Side of the Sugmad" is
      > experienced via "SAGUNA SATI."
      >
      > "SAGUNA SATI. The Instant, or Direct Technique
      > for Soul Travel; Direct Projection; the ability
      > to move out of the physical body at will into
      > the higher states of consciousness." [pg.178]
      >
      > It should, also, be noted that Eckists are
      > told that the Saguna Sati technique is used
      > to read Soul Records and that these records
      > are fanned out like playing cards. However,
      > don't forget that this is for the Etheric Plane
      > and that this is considered "the OUTER SIDE
      > of the SUGMAD."
      >
      > Remember, LORD SOHANG is "The Lord of
      > the land of BHANWAR GUPHA, the ETHERIC
      > PLANE; the Great Power Current [the ECK]
      > Flows Through Him into this Region and
      > downward; the name means 'I Am That!'
      > See also SAGUNA BRAHM; Worlds of ECK (illus)."
      > [EK Lexicon, pg. 192]
      >
      > "SOHANG ECK. The Sound Like That of a
      > Keen FLUTE which is heard on the ETHERIC
      > PLANE, BHANWAR GUPTA." [pg. 192]
      >
      > BUT WAIT! I just went to the WORLDS OF
      > ECK (illus) on page 232 and guess what the
      > SOUND is for the ETHERIC PLANE... THE
      > BUZZING OF BEES! The FLUTE SOUND is for
      > the SOUL PLANE!
      >
      > Wasn't Klemp's "Intuition" working for him
      > when he copied this misinformation and
      > contradiction down?! What a moron! He's
      > just Not a detail person!
      >
      > BTW- I just saw where Klemp states that
      > in the "WORLDS OF THE CHELA the THREE
      > WORLDS ARE:
      >
      > the HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS,
      > the PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS, and the
      > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS;
      >
      > ALL THREE ARE LIVED IN SIMULTANEOUSLY
      > AND SINGULARLY." [EK LexiCON, pg.233]
      >
      > Anyway, I thought I'd post this for some
      > of the deluded Eckies out there like Stever
      > on HU-CHAT who imagines he's operating
      > 90% of the time on the "Inner." Even if he
      > operated in the "Psychic Consciousness"
      > 90% of the time why does he travel and
      > communicate so much on the "Outer" (physical)?
      >
      > Why does Steve R. physically travel to all of those
      > EK seminars and EK business meetings, or physically
      > use the computer and telephone as much as he does
      > for EK business?! Why should any Eckist? Why not
      > Meet on the "Inner" with the RESA and the other
      > 6ths and 7ths?!
      >
      > Why not have Meetings or Regional and Major EK
      > Seminars on just the "INNER?" And WHY the EK
      > focus on the Physical HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS
      > (MONEY, SALES, WORDS) instead of upon the
      > "INNER" PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS or upon the
      > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS? See! Stever's as
      > deluded and as much a phony as is Klemp!
      >
      > Or, maybe Steve R. thinks other Eckists aren't
      > advanced enough to travel and communicate
      > with him on those "inner" Planes. Of course
      > that Astral Region is a large one... Klemp, too,
      > has been lost there for ages!
      >
      > Then again, according to the definition of SAGUNA
      > the "Inner" Klemp preaches of is really the "OUTER."
      > Even "Inner Planes" are With Qualities whereas NO
      > Thing is Without Qualities. Only Soul, and Soul alone,
      > can come to understand the true Inner Nirguna
      > (without qualities). Otherwise, it's just a lot of
      > doubletalk!
      >
      > TRUTH doesn't require the help of a middleman
      > Mahanta/preacher or his books!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > p.s.
      > Don't forget Klemp's 2007 EWWS Message for the
      > HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS... "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
      > What consciousness was the "Change is Change" for?
      >
    • mishmisha9
      Additionally, Steve R has stated that he attends seminars to see HK in the flesh so that it will confirm the 90% experiences he has on the inner with the
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 4, 2008
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        Additionally, Steve R has stated that he attends seminars to see HK in
        the flesh so that it will confirm the 90% experiences he has on the
        inner with the scrawny mahanta! Interesting that Steve R does admit
        to some doubt about his 90% inner experiences and needs to travel
        the long highway in the physical to meet up with old HK! LOL! Why the
        doubt? Maybe, Steve R still has a chance to get out before it is too
        late?

        Also, by stating that the eck teachings are really on the inner, I guess
        that 10% amount on the outer is really nothing. I mean those outer
        initiations are meaningless, especially, if you are a lower initiate and
        are being given higher initiations on the inner. Of course, if the spiritual
        exercises aren't working for a chela and there is little inner experience,
        I guess the chela is really left out in the cold but for spending all that
        money on membership dues, books and other eck materials, and junk,
        plus working their arse off to get recognized--being go-fors!

        I wonder if those lonely, single eckists have figured out why they do
        not have relationships with significant others, why it is so hard to
        find someone to enjoy life with? Well, it could be all those ugly pics
        of HK strung all over their homes, their cars, their wallets, etc. Plus,
        I doubt if anyone outside of eckankar would find going to a seminar
        in Minneapolis as a fun vacation thing to do. All that
        eck babble certainly would put a "normal" critical thinking individual
        off! : )

        Just a little heads up for someone like Steve R who is looking for a relationship
        and hoping that nice guys do finish first! Get out of eckankar and see
        what opportunities will evolve! I think Sword (Paul) had a significant and
        positive life change when he did!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Prometheus and All!
        >
        > This is an interesting post about the inner and outer confusion that
        > eckists seem to experience--obviously created by the cult eck
        > teachings/techniques in order to fool chelas. Too bad because it is so
        > disruptive to "normal" life, and makes those who are drifting off into
        > the inner worlds frequently and on purpose, all the more delusional!
        > Out of sync with the real world. There's simply not enough institutions
        > and therapists to help these delusional minds as is evidenced by HK
        > being released from the mental institution, freeing him to become the
        > lying con man he is! LOL!
        >
        > Prometheus' questions about why chelas go to the bother and expense
        > of traveling to seminars, paying membership dues and so forth, when
        > most of the action is taking place on the inner planes, well, here is an
        > answer that Steve R posted on HuChat that explains why he goes to
        > seminars, and shows how he is attempting to smooth over the lies about how
        > HK received the rod of eck power (which is not real; it's only imaginary
        > anyway--LOL), but Steve R's post is a very good example of a delusional
        > mind, one of many in the eck fold. It is interesting that eckists like Niels
        > are commenting on Darwin passing the rod of eck power to HK; Darwin
        > previously having received it from Rebazar so this is eck history difficult
        > to explain away. Yet it is so fascinating that this doesn't seem to trouble
        > eckists like Steve R at all! Here's the little discussion between Niels and
        > Steve R:
        >
        > "Niels-Jul Yrvin wrote:
        >
        > About The rod
        >
        > May be I am wrong but to me Darwin got the Rod from Rebazar Tarz. I started
        > my ECK life in 1988 and the information that reached me was that Darwin
        > himself transferred the rod of ECK power to Sri Harold. Sorry if I am wrong
        > about this.
        >
        > Take care in ECK
        > Niels-Jul
        >
        > >
        >
        > Niels-Jul,
        >
        > You are not wrong. I joined Eckankar in 1975 and was able to meet and
        > shake hands with the Living ECK Master of the time that year. It was a
        > special event in my life. A few years later, when the Rod of Power was
        > passed to Sri Harold quite a few people had real trouble with the
        > transition. Many were attached to the outer personality of the former
        > Living ECK Master, and had great difficulty following the Mahanta.
        >
        > One of the things I am very grateful for is the way Sri Harold tries to
        > separate his own personality from his role as the Mahanta, the Living
        > ECK Master. He no longer goes out like a politician to shake hands and
        > gain favor on that level. He has really emphasized our reliance on his
        > role as the inner master. When, at some time in the future he needs to
        > pass the Rod of Power on to the next Living ECK Master, I expect the
        > transition will be smoother.
        >
        > Over the years I have seen many spiritual teachers and talked to the
        > followers of many paths. Most of the time, it seems to me, the loyalty
        > of the followers is more to the "cult of personality" . Eckankar is 90%
        > on the inner.
        >
        > By the way, I have been able to shake hands with Sri Harold many times
        > on the inner, in dreams and in contemplation.
        >
        > With Love in ECK,
        >
        > Steve"
        >
        > How do eckists reconcile that Darwin received the rod of eck power from
        > Rebazar? How do they reconcile that Darwin passed it on to HK--and then
        > Darwin is kicked out of eckankar? How do these lies right under the chelas
        > noses continue to be disregarded?? Only delusional minds could know this
        > and continue to believe in HK and the eck teachings?
        >
        > Funny, too, that Steve R doesn't see himself as having a "cult personality"
        > --but it would be too painful, I guess. Those krispy creme donuts must
        > be consoling during his 10% time spent on the outer! LOL!
        >
        > Mish
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > In Eckankar there are supposed to be
        > > Only "Two Attributes of the Godhead"
        > > the "OUTER" (Saguna) and the "INNER"
        > > (Nirguna).
        > >
        > > However, most Eckists don't understand
        > > the difference between the Real "Outer"
        > > and the Real "Inner!" They don't see that
        > > the Inner Planes are a part of the "Outer."
        > >
        > > SAGUNA is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD"
        > > (With Qualities) and has "eternal reality,
        > > consciousness, and joy experienced at
        > > God-Realization." [EK Lexicon pg.178]
        > >
        > > However, SAGUNA BRAHM is "LORD SOHANG,
        > > ruler of the SAGUNA LOK, the upper division
        > > of the Mind Plane, or the ETHERIC PLANE,
        > > Who has Jurisdiction Over ALL Entities and
        > > Beings Living On This Plane." [pg.178]
        > >
        > > Therefore, God-Realization is experienced
        > > under the Jurisdiction of LORD SOHANG and
        > > on the ETHERIC PLANE (SAGUNA LOK) and
        > > this is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD."
        > >
        > > Also, this "Outer Side of the Sugmad" is
        > > experienced via "SAGUNA SATI."
        > >
        > > "SAGUNA SATI. The Instant, or Direct Technique
        > > for Soul Travel; Direct Projection; the ability
        > > to move out of the physical body at will into
        > > the higher states of consciousness." [pg.178]
        > >
        > > It should, also, be noted that Eckists are
        > > told that the Saguna Sati technique is used
        > > to read Soul Records and that these records
        > > are fanned out like playing cards. However,
        > > don't forget that this is for the Etheric Plane
        > > and that this is considered "the OUTER SIDE
        > > of the SUGMAD."
        > >
        > > Remember, LORD SOHANG is "The Lord of
        > > the land of BHANWAR GUPHA, the ETHERIC
        > > PLANE; the Great Power Current [the ECK]
        > > Flows Through Him into this Region and
        > > downward; the name means 'I Am That!'
        > > See also SAGUNA BRAHM; Worlds of ECK (illus)."
        > > [EK Lexicon, pg. 192]
        > >
        > > "SOHANG ECK. The Sound Like That of a
        > > Keen FLUTE which is heard on the ETHERIC
        > > PLANE, BHANWAR GUPTA." [pg. 192]
        > >
        > > BUT WAIT! I just went to the WORLDS OF
        > > ECK (illus) on page 232 and guess what the
        > > SOUND is for the ETHERIC PLANE... THE
        > > BUZZING OF BEES! The FLUTE SOUND is for
        > > the SOUL PLANE!
        > >
        > > Wasn't Klemp's "Intuition" working for him
        > > when he copied this misinformation and
        > > contradiction down?! What a moron! He's
        > > just Not a detail person!
        > >
        > > BTW- I just saw where Klemp states that
        > > in the "WORLDS OF THE CHELA the THREE
        > > WORLDS ARE:
        > >
        > > the HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS,
        > > the PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS, and the
        > > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS;
        > >
        > > ALL THREE ARE LIVED IN SIMULTANEOUSLY
        > > AND SINGULARLY." [EK LexiCON, pg.233]
        > >
        > > Anyway, I thought I'd post this for some
        > > of the deluded Eckies out there like Stever
        > > on HU-CHAT who imagines he's operating
        > > 90% of the time on the "Inner." Even if he
        > > operated in the "Psychic Consciousness"
        > > 90% of the time why does he travel and
        > > communicate so much on the "Outer" (physical)?
        > >
        > > Why does Steve R. physically travel to all of those
        > > EK seminars and EK business meetings, or physically
        > > use the computer and telephone as much as he does
        > > for EK business?! Why should any Eckist? Why not
        > > Meet on the "Inner" with the RESA and the other
        > > 6ths and 7ths?!
        > >
        > > Why not have Meetings or Regional and Major EK
        > > Seminars on just the "INNER?" And WHY the EK
        > > focus on the Physical HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS
        > > (MONEY, SALES, WORDS) instead of upon the
        > > "INNER" PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS or upon the
        > > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS? See! Stever's as
        > > deluded and as much a phony as is Klemp!
        > >
        > > Or, maybe Steve R. thinks other Eckists aren't
        > > advanced enough to travel and communicate
        > > with him on those "inner" Planes. Of course
        > > that Astral Region is a large one... Klemp, too,
        > > has been lost there for ages!
        > >
        > > Then again, according to the definition of SAGUNA
        > > the "Inner" Klemp preaches of is really the "OUTER."
        > > Even "Inner Planes" are With Qualities whereas NO
        > > Thing is Without Qualities. Only Soul, and Soul alone,
        > > can come to understand the true Inner Nirguna
        > > (without qualities). Otherwise, it's just a lot of
        > > doubletalk!
        > >
        > > TRUTH doesn't require the help of a middleman
        > > Mahanta/preacher or his books!
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > p.s.
        > > Don't forget Klemp's 2007 EWWS Message for the
        > > HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS... "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
        > > What consciousness was the "Change is Change" for?
        > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish and All, Actually, it s an Ego thing with Stever. This is Why he travels to EK Seminars. He likes to feel important as the EK Internet Public Info
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 4, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Mish and All,
          Actually, it's an Ego thing with Stever. This is Why
          he travels to EK Seminars. He likes to feel important
          as the EK Internet Public Info Guru! SR likes to be in
          the "spotlight" like so many other high profile H.I.s
          do. Plus, it's a lonely hearts search. Stever is looking
          for that female EK Soul/mate, but others are looking
          for mates too. There really should be an EK Singles
          gathering at Regional and Major EK Seminars. Or,
          one could always look for someone more normal,
          more balanced, and more spiritual outside of Eckankar.
          One would have a much better selection!

          Some Eckists attend EK Seminars because they have
          been pointed out or mentioned by Harry both at the
          Seminar and in his books. It's like an Awards Show
          just waiting to see if your name is called! Wow! It's
          so funny, afterwards, watching these celebs acting
          "as if" they are humble when their fans approach them.

          Most to many ECKists were Non-Conformists prior
          to joining Eckankar (some still are), but the EK rules,
          guidelines, and expectations for "normal" conforming
          "Church" behaviour have beat most into submission.
          This is Why it's so difficult for many to give-in, fit-in,
          and surrender their unique identities.

          Religions and their local little church communities
          are okay when a person has nothing else and is lonely
          and is looking for a place to feel safe and needed and
          appreciated. Religions give answers for questions...
          although those answers need a "Leap of Faith" and
          only fit the limited dogma and the opinions of those
          in power who have added their own touch over the years.

          All one really needs is to seek out, find, and take the
          Original untainted dogma, quotes or info (from different
          sources much like Twitchell originally did) that fits you.
          Then personalize this for your own Private Use Without
          creating another religion or another Pope/Mahanta.

          It sounds easy, but only the strong and experienced
          Soul can find true Spiritual Freedom without the need
          of following anyone who has placed themselves or been
          placed above them with phony unattainable initiations
          and titles. But, such is the way of the world and of the
          KAL (illusion).

          Prometheus






          mishmisha wrote:

          Additionally, Steve R has stated that he attends
          seminars to see HK in the flesh so that it will
          confirm the 90% experiences he has on the inner
          with the scrawny mahanta! Interesting that Steve R.
          does admit to some doubt about his 90% inner
          experiences and needs to travel the long highway
          in the physical to meet up with old HK! LOL! Why
          the doubt? Maybe, Steve R still has a chance to get
          out before it is too late?

          Also, by stating that the eck teachings are
          really on the inner, I guess that 10% amount
          on the outer is really nothing. I mean those outer
          initiations are meaningless, especially, if you are
          a lower initiate and are being given higher initiations
          on the inner. Of course, if the spiritual exercises
          aren't working for a chela and there is little inner
          experience, I guess the chela is really left out in
          the cold but for spending all that money on membership
          dues, books and other eck materials, and junk,
          plus working their arse off to get recognized--
          being go-fors!

          I wonder if those lonely, single eckists have
          figured out why they do not have relationships
          with significant others, why it is so hard to find
          someone to enjoy life with? Well, it could be all
          those ugly pics of HK strung all over their homes,
          their cars, their wallets, etc. Plus, I doubt if anyone
          outside of eckankar would find going to a seminar
          in Minneapolis as a fun vacation thing to do. All that
          eck babble certainly would put a "normal" critical
          thinking individual off! : )

          Just a little heads up for someone like Steve R
          who is looking for a relationship and hoping that
          nice guys do finish first! Get out of eckankar and
          see what opportunities will evolve! I think Sword
          (Paul) had a significant and positive life change when
          he did!

          Mish
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