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"As Above So Below" or B.S. Rolls Downhill!

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  • prometheus_973
    In Eckankar there are supposed to be Only Two Attributes of the Godhead the OUTER (Saguna) and the INNER (Nirguna). However, most Eckists don t
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 3, 2008
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      In Eckankar there are supposed to be
      Only "Two Attributes of the Godhead"
      the "OUTER" (Saguna) and the "INNER"
      (Nirguna).

      However, most Eckists don't understand
      the difference between the Real "Outer"
      and the Real "Inner!" They don't see that
      the Inner Planes are a part of the "Outer."

      SAGUNA is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD"
      (With Qualities) and has "eternal reality,
      consciousness, and joy experienced at
      God-Realization." [EK Lexicon pg.178]

      However, SAGUNA BRAHM is "LORD SOHANG,
      ruler of the SAGUNA LOK, the upper division
      of the Mind Plane, or the ETHERIC PLANE,
      Who has Jurisdiction Over ALL Entities and
      Beings Living On This Plane." [pg.178]

      Therefore, God-Realization is experienced
      under the Jurisdiction of LORD SOHANG and
      on the ETHERIC PLANE (SAGUNA LOK) and
      this is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD."

      Also, this "Outer Side of the Sugmad" is
      experienced via "SAGUNA SATI."

      "SAGUNA SATI. The Instant, or Direct Technique
      for Soul Travel; Direct Projection; the ability
      to move out of the physical body at will into
      the higher states of consciousness." [pg.178]

      It should, also, be noted that Eckists are
      told that the Saguna Sati technique is used
      to read Soul Records and that these records
      are fanned out like playing cards. However,
      don't forget that this is for the Etheric Plane
      and that this is considered "the OUTER SIDE
      of the SUGMAD."

      Remember, LORD SOHANG is "The Lord of
      the land of BHANWAR GUPHA, the ETHERIC
      PLANE; the Great Power Current [the ECK]
      Flows Through Him into this Region and
      downward; the name means 'I Am That!'
      See also SAGUNA BRAHM; Worlds of ECK (illus)."
      [EK Lexicon, pg. 192]

      "SOHANG ECK. The Sound Like That of a
      Keen FLUTE which is heard on the ETHERIC
      PLANE, BHANWAR GUPTA." [pg. 192]

      BUT WAIT! I just went to the WORLDS OF
      ECK (illus) on page 232 and guess what the
      SOUND is for the ETHERIC PLANE... THE
      BUZZING OF BEES! The FLUTE SOUND is for
      the SOUL PLANE!

      Wasn't Klemp's "Intuition" working for him
      when he copied this misinformation and
      contradiction down?! What a moron! He's
      just Not a detail person!

      BTW- I just saw where Klemp states that
      in the "WORLDS OF THE CHELA the THREE
      WORLDS ARE:

      the HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS,
      the PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS, and the
      SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS;

      ALL THREE ARE LIVED IN SIMULTANEOUSLY
      AND SINGULARLY." [EK LexiCON, pg.233]

      Anyway, I thought I'd post this for some
      of the deluded Eckies out there like Stever
      on HU-CHAT who imagines he's operating
      90% of the time on the "Inner." Even if he
      operated in the "Psychic Consciousness"
      90% of the time why does he travel and
      communicate so much on the "Outer" (physical)?

      Why does Steve R. physically travel to all of those
      EK seminars and EK business meetings, or physically
      use the computer and telephone as much as he does
      for EK business?! Why should any Eckist? Why not
      Meet on the "Inner" with the RESA and the other
      6ths and 7ths?!

      Why not have Meetings or Regional and Major EK
      Seminars on just the "INNER?" And WHY the EK
      focus on the Physical HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS
      (MONEY, SALES, WORDS) instead of upon the
      "INNER" PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS or upon the
      SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS? See! Stever's as
      deluded and as much a phony as is Klemp!

      Or, maybe Steve R. thinks other Eckists aren't
      advanced enough to travel and communicate
      with him on those "inner" Planes. Of course
      that Astral Region is a large one... Klemp, too,
      has been lost there for ages!

      Then again, according to the definition of SAGUNA
      the "Inner" Klemp preaches of is really the "OUTER."
      Even "Inner Planes" are With Qualities whereas NO
      Thing is Without Qualities. Only Soul, and Soul alone,
      can come to understand the true Inner Nirguna
      (without qualities). Otherwise, it's just a lot of
      doubletalk!

      TRUTH doesn't require the help of a middleman
      Mahanta/preacher or his books!

      Prometheus

      p.s.
      Don't forget Klemp's 2007 EWWS Message for the
      HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS... "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
      What consciousness was the "Change is Change" for?
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Prometheus and All! This is an interesting post about the inner and outer confusion that eckists seem to experience--obviously created by the cult eck
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 3, 2008
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        Hi, Prometheus and All!

        This is an interesting post about the inner and outer confusion that
        eckists seem to experience--obviously created by the cult eck
        teachings/techniques in order to fool chelas. Too bad because it is so
        disruptive to "normal" life, and makes those who are drifting off into
        the inner worlds frequently and on purpose, all the more delusional!
        Out of sync with the real world. There's simply not enough institutions
        and therapists to help these delusional minds as is evidenced by HK
        being released from the mental institution, freeing him to become the
        lying con man he is! LOL!

        Prometheus' questions about why chelas go to the bother and expense
        of traveling to seminars, paying membership dues and so forth, when
        most of the action is taking place on the inner planes, well, here is an
        answer that Steve R posted on HuChat that explains why he goes to
        seminars, and shows how he is attempting to smooth over the lies about how
        HK received the rod of eck power (which is not real; it's only imaginary
        anyway--LOL), but Steve R's post is a very good example of a delusional
        mind, one of many in the eck fold. It is interesting that eckists like Niels
        are commenting on Darwin passing the rod of eck power to HK; Darwin
        previously having received it from Rebazar so this is eck history difficult
        to explain away. Yet it is so fascinating that this doesn't seem to trouble
        eckists like Steve R at all! Here's the little discussion between Niels and
        Steve R:

        "Niels-Jul Yrvin wrote:

        About The rod

        May be I am wrong but to me Darwin got the Rod from Rebazar Tarz. I started
        my ECK life in 1988 and the information that reached me was that Darwin
        himself transferred the rod of ECK power to Sri Harold. Sorry if I am wrong
        about this.

        Take care in ECK
        Niels-Jul

        >

        Niels-Jul,

        You are not wrong. I joined Eckankar in 1975 and was able to meet and
        shake hands with the Living ECK Master of the time that year. It was a
        special event in my life. A few years later, when the Rod of Power was
        passed to Sri Harold quite a few people had real trouble with the
        transition. Many were attached to the outer personality of the former
        Living ECK Master, and had great difficulty following the Mahanta.

        One of the things I am very grateful for is the way Sri Harold tries to
        separate his own personality from his role as the Mahanta, the Living
        ECK Master. He no longer goes out like a politician to shake hands and
        gain favor on that level. He has really emphasized our reliance on his
        role as the inner master. When, at some time in the future he needs to
        pass the Rod of Power on to the next Living ECK Master, I expect the
        transition will be smoother.

        Over the years I have seen many spiritual teachers and talked to the
        followers of many paths. Most of the time, it seems to me, the loyalty
        of the followers is more to the "cult of personality" . Eckankar is 90%
        on the inner.

        By the way, I have been able to shake hands with Sri Harold many times
        on the inner, in dreams and in contemplation.

        With Love in ECK,

        Steve"

        How do eckists reconcile that Darwin received the rod of eck power from
        Rebazar? How do they reconcile that Darwin passed it on to HK--and then
        Darwin is kicked out of eckankar? How do these lies right under the chelas
        noses continue to be disregarded?? Only delusional minds could know this
        and continue to believe in HK and the eck teachings?

        Funny, too, that Steve R doesn't see himself as having a "cult personality"
        --but it would be too painful, I guess. Those krispy creme donuts must
        be consoling during his 10% time spent on the outer! LOL!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > In Eckankar there are supposed to be
        > Only "Two Attributes of the Godhead"
        > the "OUTER" (Saguna) and the "INNER"
        > (Nirguna).
        >
        > However, most Eckists don't understand
        > the difference between the Real "Outer"
        > and the Real "Inner!" They don't see that
        > the Inner Planes are a part of the "Outer."
        >
        > SAGUNA is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD"
        > (With Qualities) and has "eternal reality,
        > consciousness, and joy experienced at
        > God-Realization." [EK Lexicon pg.178]
        >
        > However, SAGUNA BRAHM is "LORD SOHANG,
        > ruler of the SAGUNA LOK, the upper division
        > of the Mind Plane, or the ETHERIC PLANE,
        > Who has Jurisdiction Over ALL Entities and
        > Beings Living On This Plane." [pg.178]
        >
        > Therefore, God-Realization is experienced
        > under the Jurisdiction of LORD SOHANG and
        > on the ETHERIC PLANE (SAGUNA LOK) and
        > this is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD."
        >
        > Also, this "Outer Side of the Sugmad" is
        > experienced via "SAGUNA SATI."
        >
        > "SAGUNA SATI. The Instant, or Direct Technique
        > for Soul Travel; Direct Projection; the ability
        > to move out of the physical body at will into
        > the higher states of consciousness." [pg.178]
        >
        > It should, also, be noted that Eckists are
        > told that the Saguna Sati technique is used
        > to read Soul Records and that these records
        > are fanned out like playing cards. However,
        > don't forget that this is for the Etheric Plane
        > and that this is considered "the OUTER SIDE
        > of the SUGMAD."
        >
        > Remember, LORD SOHANG is "The Lord of
        > the land of BHANWAR GUPHA, the ETHERIC
        > PLANE; the Great Power Current [the ECK]
        > Flows Through Him into this Region and
        > downward; the name means 'I Am That!'
        > See also SAGUNA BRAHM; Worlds of ECK (illus)."
        > [EK Lexicon, pg. 192]
        >
        > "SOHANG ECK. The Sound Like That of a
        > Keen FLUTE which is heard on the ETHERIC
        > PLANE, BHANWAR GUPTA." [pg. 192]
        >
        > BUT WAIT! I just went to the WORLDS OF
        > ECK (illus) on page 232 and guess what the
        > SOUND is for the ETHERIC PLANE... THE
        > BUZZING OF BEES! The FLUTE SOUND is for
        > the SOUL PLANE!
        >
        > Wasn't Klemp's "Intuition" working for him
        > when he copied this misinformation and
        > contradiction down?! What a moron! He's
        > just Not a detail person!
        >
        > BTW- I just saw where Klemp states that
        > in the "WORLDS OF THE CHELA the THREE
        > WORLDS ARE:
        >
        > the HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS,
        > the PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS, and the
        > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS;
        >
        > ALL THREE ARE LIVED IN SIMULTANEOUSLY
        > AND SINGULARLY." [EK LexiCON, pg.233]
        >
        > Anyway, I thought I'd post this for some
        > of the deluded Eckies out there like Stever
        > on HU-CHAT who imagines he's operating
        > 90% of the time on the "Inner." Even if he
        > operated in the "Psychic Consciousness"
        > 90% of the time why does he travel and
        > communicate so much on the "Outer" (physical)?
        >
        > Why does Steve R. physically travel to all of those
        > EK seminars and EK business meetings, or physically
        > use the computer and telephone as much as he does
        > for EK business?! Why should any Eckist? Why not
        > Meet on the "Inner" with the RESA and the other
        > 6ths and 7ths?!
        >
        > Why not have Meetings or Regional and Major EK
        > Seminars on just the "INNER?" And WHY the EK
        > focus on the Physical HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS
        > (MONEY, SALES, WORDS) instead of upon the
        > "INNER" PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS or upon the
        > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS? See! Stever's as
        > deluded and as much a phony as is Klemp!
        >
        > Or, maybe Steve R. thinks other Eckists aren't
        > advanced enough to travel and communicate
        > with him on those "inner" Planes. Of course
        > that Astral Region is a large one... Klemp, too,
        > has been lost there for ages!
        >
        > Then again, according to the definition of SAGUNA
        > the "Inner" Klemp preaches of is really the "OUTER."
        > Even "Inner Planes" are With Qualities whereas NO
        > Thing is Without Qualities. Only Soul, and Soul alone,
        > can come to understand the true Inner Nirguna
        > (without qualities). Otherwise, it's just a lot of
        > doubletalk!
        >
        > TRUTH doesn't require the help of a middleman
        > Mahanta/preacher or his books!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > p.s.
        > Don't forget Klemp's 2007 EWWS Message for the
        > HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS... "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
        > What consciousness was the "Change is Change" for?
        >
      • mishmisha9
        Additionally, Steve R has stated that he attends seminars to see HK in the flesh so that it will confirm the 90% experiences he has on the inner with the
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 4, 2008
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          Additionally, Steve R has stated that he attends seminars to see HK in
          the flesh so that it will confirm the 90% experiences he has on the
          inner with the scrawny mahanta! Interesting that Steve R does admit
          to some doubt about his 90% inner experiences and needs to travel
          the long highway in the physical to meet up with old HK! LOL! Why the
          doubt? Maybe, Steve R still has a chance to get out before it is too
          late?

          Also, by stating that the eck teachings are really on the inner, I guess
          that 10% amount on the outer is really nothing. I mean those outer
          initiations are meaningless, especially, if you are a lower initiate and
          are being given higher initiations on the inner. Of course, if the spiritual
          exercises aren't working for a chela and there is little inner experience,
          I guess the chela is really left out in the cold but for spending all that
          money on membership dues, books and other eck materials, and junk,
          plus working their arse off to get recognized--being go-fors!

          I wonder if those lonely, single eckists have figured out why they do
          not have relationships with significant others, why it is so hard to
          find someone to enjoy life with? Well, it could be all those ugly pics
          of HK strung all over their homes, their cars, their wallets, etc. Plus,
          I doubt if anyone outside of eckankar would find going to a seminar
          in Minneapolis as a fun vacation thing to do. All that
          eck babble certainly would put a "normal" critical thinking individual
          off! : )

          Just a little heads up for someone like Steve R who is looking for a relationship
          and hoping that nice guys do finish first! Get out of eckankar and see
          what opportunities will evolve! I think Sword (Paul) had a significant and
          positive life change when he did!

          Mish


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Prometheus and All!
          >
          > This is an interesting post about the inner and outer confusion that
          > eckists seem to experience--obviously created by the cult eck
          > teachings/techniques in order to fool chelas. Too bad because it is so
          > disruptive to "normal" life, and makes those who are drifting off into
          > the inner worlds frequently and on purpose, all the more delusional!
          > Out of sync with the real world. There's simply not enough institutions
          > and therapists to help these delusional minds as is evidenced by HK
          > being released from the mental institution, freeing him to become the
          > lying con man he is! LOL!
          >
          > Prometheus' questions about why chelas go to the bother and expense
          > of traveling to seminars, paying membership dues and so forth, when
          > most of the action is taking place on the inner planes, well, here is an
          > answer that Steve R posted on HuChat that explains why he goes to
          > seminars, and shows how he is attempting to smooth over the lies about how
          > HK received the rod of eck power (which is not real; it's only imaginary
          > anyway--LOL), but Steve R's post is a very good example of a delusional
          > mind, one of many in the eck fold. It is interesting that eckists like Niels
          > are commenting on Darwin passing the rod of eck power to HK; Darwin
          > previously having received it from Rebazar so this is eck history difficult
          > to explain away. Yet it is so fascinating that this doesn't seem to trouble
          > eckists like Steve R at all! Here's the little discussion between Niels and
          > Steve R:
          >
          > "Niels-Jul Yrvin wrote:
          >
          > About The rod
          >
          > May be I am wrong but to me Darwin got the Rod from Rebazar Tarz. I started
          > my ECK life in 1988 and the information that reached me was that Darwin
          > himself transferred the rod of ECK power to Sri Harold. Sorry if I am wrong
          > about this.
          >
          > Take care in ECK
          > Niels-Jul
          >
          > >
          >
          > Niels-Jul,
          >
          > You are not wrong. I joined Eckankar in 1975 and was able to meet and
          > shake hands with the Living ECK Master of the time that year. It was a
          > special event in my life. A few years later, when the Rod of Power was
          > passed to Sri Harold quite a few people had real trouble with the
          > transition. Many were attached to the outer personality of the former
          > Living ECK Master, and had great difficulty following the Mahanta.
          >
          > One of the things I am very grateful for is the way Sri Harold tries to
          > separate his own personality from his role as the Mahanta, the Living
          > ECK Master. He no longer goes out like a politician to shake hands and
          > gain favor on that level. He has really emphasized our reliance on his
          > role as the inner master. When, at some time in the future he needs to
          > pass the Rod of Power on to the next Living ECK Master, I expect the
          > transition will be smoother.
          >
          > Over the years I have seen many spiritual teachers and talked to the
          > followers of many paths. Most of the time, it seems to me, the loyalty
          > of the followers is more to the "cult of personality" . Eckankar is 90%
          > on the inner.
          >
          > By the way, I have been able to shake hands with Sri Harold many times
          > on the inner, in dreams and in contemplation.
          >
          > With Love in ECK,
          >
          > Steve"
          >
          > How do eckists reconcile that Darwin received the rod of eck power from
          > Rebazar? How do they reconcile that Darwin passed it on to HK--and then
          > Darwin is kicked out of eckankar? How do these lies right under the chelas
          > noses continue to be disregarded?? Only delusional minds could know this
          > and continue to believe in HK and the eck teachings?
          >
          > Funny, too, that Steve R doesn't see himself as having a "cult personality"
          > --but it would be too painful, I guess. Those krispy creme donuts must
          > be consoling during his 10% time spent on the outer! LOL!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > In Eckankar there are supposed to be
          > > Only "Two Attributes of the Godhead"
          > > the "OUTER" (Saguna) and the "INNER"
          > > (Nirguna).
          > >
          > > However, most Eckists don't understand
          > > the difference between the Real "Outer"
          > > and the Real "Inner!" They don't see that
          > > the Inner Planes are a part of the "Outer."
          > >
          > > SAGUNA is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD"
          > > (With Qualities) and has "eternal reality,
          > > consciousness, and joy experienced at
          > > God-Realization." [EK Lexicon pg.178]
          > >
          > > However, SAGUNA BRAHM is "LORD SOHANG,
          > > ruler of the SAGUNA LOK, the upper division
          > > of the Mind Plane, or the ETHERIC PLANE,
          > > Who has Jurisdiction Over ALL Entities and
          > > Beings Living On This Plane." [pg.178]
          > >
          > > Therefore, God-Realization is experienced
          > > under the Jurisdiction of LORD SOHANG and
          > > on the ETHERIC PLANE (SAGUNA LOK) and
          > > this is "the OUTER SIDE of the SUGMAD."
          > >
          > > Also, this "Outer Side of the Sugmad" is
          > > experienced via "SAGUNA SATI."
          > >
          > > "SAGUNA SATI. The Instant, or Direct Technique
          > > for Soul Travel; Direct Projection; the ability
          > > to move out of the physical body at will into
          > > the higher states of consciousness." [pg.178]
          > >
          > > It should, also, be noted that Eckists are
          > > told that the Saguna Sati technique is used
          > > to read Soul Records and that these records
          > > are fanned out like playing cards. However,
          > > don't forget that this is for the Etheric Plane
          > > and that this is considered "the OUTER SIDE
          > > of the SUGMAD."
          > >
          > > Remember, LORD SOHANG is "The Lord of
          > > the land of BHANWAR GUPHA, the ETHERIC
          > > PLANE; the Great Power Current [the ECK]
          > > Flows Through Him into this Region and
          > > downward; the name means 'I Am That!'
          > > See also SAGUNA BRAHM; Worlds of ECK (illus)."
          > > [EK Lexicon, pg. 192]
          > >
          > > "SOHANG ECK. The Sound Like That of a
          > > Keen FLUTE which is heard on the ETHERIC
          > > PLANE, BHANWAR GUPTA." [pg. 192]
          > >
          > > BUT WAIT! I just went to the WORLDS OF
          > > ECK (illus) on page 232 and guess what the
          > > SOUND is for the ETHERIC PLANE... THE
          > > BUZZING OF BEES! The FLUTE SOUND is for
          > > the SOUL PLANE!
          > >
          > > Wasn't Klemp's "Intuition" working for him
          > > when he copied this misinformation and
          > > contradiction down?! What a moron! He's
          > > just Not a detail person!
          > >
          > > BTW- I just saw where Klemp states that
          > > in the "WORLDS OF THE CHELA the THREE
          > > WORLDS ARE:
          > >
          > > the HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS,
          > > the PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS, and the
          > > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS;
          > >
          > > ALL THREE ARE LIVED IN SIMULTANEOUSLY
          > > AND SINGULARLY." [EK LexiCON, pg.233]
          > >
          > > Anyway, I thought I'd post this for some
          > > of the deluded Eckies out there like Stever
          > > on HU-CHAT who imagines he's operating
          > > 90% of the time on the "Inner." Even if he
          > > operated in the "Psychic Consciousness"
          > > 90% of the time why does he travel and
          > > communicate so much on the "Outer" (physical)?
          > >
          > > Why does Steve R. physically travel to all of those
          > > EK seminars and EK business meetings, or physically
          > > use the computer and telephone as much as he does
          > > for EK business?! Why should any Eckist? Why not
          > > Meet on the "Inner" with the RESA and the other
          > > 6ths and 7ths?!
          > >
          > > Why not have Meetings or Regional and Major EK
          > > Seminars on just the "INNER?" And WHY the EK
          > > focus on the Physical HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS
          > > (MONEY, SALES, WORDS) instead of upon the
          > > "INNER" PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS or upon the
          > > SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS? See! Stever's as
          > > deluded and as much a phony as is Klemp!
          > >
          > > Or, maybe Steve R. thinks other Eckists aren't
          > > advanced enough to travel and communicate
          > > with him on those "inner" Planes. Of course
          > > that Astral Region is a large one... Klemp, too,
          > > has been lost there for ages!
          > >
          > > Then again, according to the definition of SAGUNA
          > > the "Inner" Klemp preaches of is really the "OUTER."
          > > Even "Inner Planes" are With Qualities whereas NO
          > > Thing is Without Qualities. Only Soul, and Soul alone,
          > > can come to understand the true Inner Nirguna
          > > (without qualities). Otherwise, it's just a lot of
          > > doubletalk!
          > >
          > > TRUTH doesn't require the help of a middleman
          > > Mahanta/preacher or his books!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > > p.s.
          > > Don't forget Klemp's 2007 EWWS Message for the
          > > HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS... "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
          > > What consciousness was the "Change is Change" for?
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Mish and All, Actually, it s an Ego thing with Stever. This is Why he travels to EK Seminars. He likes to feel important as the EK Internet Public Info
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 4, 2008
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            Hi Mish and All,
            Actually, it's an Ego thing with Stever. This is Why
            he travels to EK Seminars. He likes to feel important
            as the EK Internet Public Info Guru! SR likes to be in
            the "spotlight" like so many other high profile H.I.s
            do. Plus, it's a lonely hearts search. Stever is looking
            for that female EK Soul/mate, but others are looking
            for mates too. There really should be an EK Singles
            gathering at Regional and Major EK Seminars. Or,
            one could always look for someone more normal,
            more balanced, and more spiritual outside of Eckankar.
            One would have a much better selection!

            Some Eckists attend EK Seminars because they have
            been pointed out or mentioned by Harry both at the
            Seminar and in his books. It's like an Awards Show
            just waiting to see if your name is called! Wow! It's
            so funny, afterwards, watching these celebs acting
            "as if" they are humble when their fans approach them.

            Most to many ECKists were Non-Conformists prior
            to joining Eckankar (some still are), but the EK rules,
            guidelines, and expectations for "normal" conforming
            "Church" behaviour have beat most into submission.
            This is Why it's so difficult for many to give-in, fit-in,
            and surrender their unique identities.

            Religions and their local little church communities
            are okay when a person has nothing else and is lonely
            and is looking for a place to feel safe and needed and
            appreciated. Religions give answers for questions...
            although those answers need a "Leap of Faith" and
            only fit the limited dogma and the opinions of those
            in power who have added their own touch over the years.

            All one really needs is to seek out, find, and take the
            Original untainted dogma, quotes or info (from different
            sources much like Twitchell originally did) that fits you.
            Then personalize this for your own Private Use Without
            creating another religion or another Pope/Mahanta.

            It sounds easy, but only the strong and experienced
            Soul can find true Spiritual Freedom without the need
            of following anyone who has placed themselves or been
            placed above them with phony unattainable initiations
            and titles. But, such is the way of the world and of the
            KAL (illusion).

            Prometheus






            mishmisha wrote:

            Additionally, Steve R has stated that he attends
            seminars to see HK in the flesh so that it will
            confirm the 90% experiences he has on the inner
            with the scrawny mahanta! Interesting that Steve R.
            does admit to some doubt about his 90% inner
            experiences and needs to travel the long highway
            in the physical to meet up with old HK! LOL! Why
            the doubt? Maybe, Steve R still has a chance to get
            out before it is too late?

            Also, by stating that the eck teachings are
            really on the inner, I guess that 10% amount
            on the outer is really nothing. I mean those outer
            initiations are meaningless, especially, if you are
            a lower initiate and are being given higher initiations
            on the inner. Of course, if the spiritual exercises
            aren't working for a chela and there is little inner
            experience, I guess the chela is really left out in
            the cold but for spending all that money on membership
            dues, books and other eck materials, and junk,
            plus working their arse off to get recognized--
            being go-fors!

            I wonder if those lonely, single eckists have
            figured out why they do not have relationships
            with significant others, why it is so hard to find
            someone to enjoy life with? Well, it could be all
            those ugly pics of HK strung all over their homes,
            their cars, their wallets, etc. Plus, I doubt if anyone
            outside of eckankar would find going to a seminar
            in Minneapolis as a fun vacation thing to do. All that
            eck babble certainly would put a "normal" critical
            thinking individual off! : )

            Just a little heads up for someone like Steve R
            who is looking for a relationship and hoping that
            nice guys do finish first! Get out of eckankar and
            see what opportunities will evolve! I think Sword
            (Paul) had a significant and positive life change when
            he did!

            Mish
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