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HK's The Wisdom Notes 03/2008 - More Delusion!

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  • prometheus_973
    The following comments and insights are in reference to excerpts taken from this little known pub (The EK Mystic World). HK: The Mahanta often intervenes when
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 28, 2008
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      The following comments and insights are in
      reference to excerpts taken from this little
      known pub (The EK Mystic World).

      HK: "The Mahanta often intervenes when one
      of his charges gets in the way of harm, physically
      or spiritually."

      ME: Does the Mahanta's intervention from physical
      harm also include disease, or just accidents? Because
      if it's just from accidents then I could take credit,
      too, for those close calls where no harm was done.
      Or, on second thought, I could take credit for one's
      good health and for any minor or major miracles as
      well! Of course, if a person does get sick or has an
      "accident" that's on them for not believing in me
      strong enough! And, sometimes I hand out "spiritual
      tests" to strengthen one's belief and faith! And, let's
      not discount past life karma and those DNA effects,
      or present life karma too! Remember, I don't Always
      intervene, although I "often" do! Catch-22!

      HK: "His intervention may not be well taken,
      however, when it involves a CHANGE of plans
      or pain. The chela may take it very hard. So
      he complains bitterly."

      ME: Refer to what I previously stated.

      HK: "Rumi, the thirteenth-century poet, once said,
      'What sort of person says that he or SHE wants to
      be polished and pure, then complains about being
      handled roughly?"

      ME Good one Klemp! Doug Marman will like the
      Rumi quote. Except, Rumi was Not even an EK Master
      so Why use his words over that of an EK Master...
      is this to placate Doug? And, since Rumi prayed
      to Allah (KAL or SATAN according to Klemp's
      "Autobiography" pg. 385) did Rumi really include
      women ("she")? And, WHO is Rumi referring to
      when he mentions people complaining about being
      "Handled Roughly?" Is this Allah or Muhammad
      (KAL) handling them roughly? Therefore, Klemp
      must, also, be an agent of the KAL since HK is
      relating what he does to/for people and what
      Rumi's "God" does to/for people!

      Anyway, Klemp now gets into a story where Carol
      knows some ECKists who have a 18 month old baby
      and the idiot mother lets the kid eat a radish and
      the baby starts to choke and the mother has to turn
      the kid upside down and hit her on the back until
      the radish is spit out. The kid is perceived at giving
      the mother an angry look for being hit (for her own
      good) and Klemp is relating this back to ECKists
      complaining about their injuries (rough handling/
      polishing) when it is all for their own good.

      Therefore, chelas who complain are like 18 month
      old babies and Klemp (the Mahanta) is like this idiot
      mother! The moral of the story is: Grow Up and keep
      silent. Don't complain because it's for your own good!

      Is it possible that ECKists don't see the Game that
      Klemp is playing? Do Religions really offer Change?

      Remember: "The Mahanta OFTEN intervenes when one
      when one of his charges gets in the WAY of HARM..."
      So, is it really necessary to choke on the radish? When
      does Klemp take responsibility for anything ever? Never!

      ECKists will turn Blue in the face if they hold their
      breaths waiting for Klemp to take ownership.

      BTW- Why does anyone need a middleman Mahanta
      to intercede for them? ECKANKAR is sounding more
      and more like the Catholic Church and Klemp is like
      the Pope! Except, the Cardinals (RESAs) get to choose
      the next Pope (LEM/Mahanta). Catch-22 again!

      Prometheus
    • Non ekster
      Maybe this should be called The Eck Master Who was NEVER there. This is the worst kind of slight of hand, just a magicians trick, er CON. Don t think of Klemp
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 29, 2008
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        Maybe this should be called The Eck Master Who was NEVER there. This
        is the worst kind of slight of hand, just a magicians trick, er CON.
        Don't think of Klemp running through the Air Port naked. : ) He will
        forever be known as the NAKED ECKMASTER or the Bony Assed One. Escape
        ECKANKAR by contemplating Klemp NAKED. And then go get a major Spa
        treatment to complete the deprogramming. Continue to vacate your mind
        and have fun. KLemp is afterall a JOKE. In the BIG picture, he really
        doesn't exist. His effect on the world or any person is NOTHING. The
        SCAM is winding down, down, down.....

        Nonekster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > The following comments and insights are in
        > reference to excerpts taken from this little
        > known pub (The EK Mystic World).
        >
        > HK: "The Mahanta often intervenes when one
        > of his charges gets in the way of harm, physically
        > or spiritually."
        >
        > ME: Does the Mahanta's intervention from physical
        > harm also include disease, or just accidents? Because
        > if it's just from accidents then I could take credit,
        > too, for those close calls where no harm was done.
        > Or, on second thought, I could take credit for one's
        > good health and for any minor or major miracles as
        > well! Of course, if a person does get sick or has an
        > "accident" that's on them for not believing in me
        > strong enough! And, sometimes I hand out "spiritual
        > tests" to strengthen one's belief and faith! And, let's
        > not discount past life karma and those DNA effects,
        > or present life karma too! Remember, I don't Always
        > intervene, although I "often" do! Catch-22!
        >
        > HK: "His intervention may not be well taken,
        > however, when it involves a CHANGE of plans
        > or pain. The chela may take it very hard. So
        > he complains bitterly."
        >
        > ME: Refer to what I previously stated.
        >
        > HK: "Rumi, the thirteenth-century poet, once said,
        > 'What sort of person says that he or SHE wants to
        > be polished and pure, then complains about being
        > handled roughly?"
        >
        > ME Good one Klemp! Doug Marman will like the
        > Rumi quote. Except, Rumi was Not even an EK Master
        > so Why use his words over that of an EK Master...
        > is this to placate Doug? And, since Rumi prayed
        > to Allah (KAL or SATAN according to Klemp's
        > "Autobiography" pg. 385) did Rumi really include
        > women ("she")? And, WHO is Rumi referring to
        > when he mentions people complaining about being
        > "Handled Roughly?" Is this Allah or Muhammad
        > (KAL) handling them roughly? Therefore, Klemp
        > must, also, be an agent of the KAL since HK is
        > relating what he does to/for people and what
        > Rumi's "God" does to/for people!
        >
        > Anyway, Klemp now gets into a story where Carol
        > knows some ECKists who have a 18 month old baby
        > and the idiot mother lets the kid eat a radish and
        > the baby starts to choke and the mother has to turn
        > the kid upside down and hit her on the back until
        > the radish is spit out. The kid is perceived at giving
        > the mother an angry look for being hit (for her own
        > good) and Klemp is relating this back to ECKists
        > complaining about their injuries (rough handling/
        > polishing) when it is all for their own good.
        >
        > Therefore, chelas who complain are like 18 month
        > old babies and Klemp (the Mahanta) is like this idiot
        > mother! The moral of the story is: Grow Up and keep
        > silent. Don't complain because it's for your own good!
        >
        > Is it possible that ECKists don't see the Game that
        > Klemp is playing? Do Religions really offer Change?
        >
        > Remember: "The Mahanta OFTEN intervenes when one
        > when one of his charges gets in the WAY of HARM..."
        > So, is it really necessary to choke on the radish? When
        > does Klemp take responsibility for anything ever? Never!
        >
        > ECKists will turn Blue in the face if they hold their
        > breaths waiting for Klemp to take ownership.
        >
        > BTW- Why does anyone need a middleman Mahanta
        > to intercede for them? ECKANKAR is sounding more
        > and more like the Catholic Church and Klemp is like
        > the Pope! Except, the Cardinals (RESAs) get to choose
        > the next Pope (LEM/Mahanta). Catch-22 again!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        There s a lot of irony packed into this next part. Restrooms (are unisex!), letters (Postal Clerks), From Heaven To the Earth (Prairie) are three flubs that
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 12, 2008
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          There's a lot of irony packed into this next part.
          Restrooms (are unisex!), letters (Postal Clerks),
          'From Heaven To the Earth' (Prairie) are three flubs
          that I saw!

          FYI- "From Heaven to the Prairie" was published
          by the 972nd LEM/Mahanta Darwin Gross in early
          1983.

          ************************************************
          First, here's the recap from Part 1:

          Klemp gets into a story where Carol knows some
          ECKists who have a 18 month old baby and the
          idiot mother lets the kid eat a radish and the baby
          starts to choke and the mother has to turn the kid
          upside down and hit her on the back until the radish
          is spit out. The kid is perceived at giving the mother
          an angry look for being hit (for her own good) and
          Klemp is relating this back to ECKists complaining
          about their injuries (rough handling/polishing) when
          it is all for their own good.

          Therefore, chelas who complain are like 18 month
          old babies and Klemp (the Mahanta) is like this idiot
          mother! The moral of the story is: Grow Up and keep
          silent. Don't complain because it's for your own good!
          ******************************************************
          HK: "Soul is like a letter. The envelope that Soul comes
          in is the human body, and the address reads: 'To Earth.'
          The return address: 'From Heaven."

          ME: Isn't HK's analogy kind of simple-mined for chelas
          that are supposed to have such a "high" consciousness?
          Maybe Klemp thinks his chelas are stupid! They seem to
          be gullible and he might equate this with stupidity!

          BTW- What does the 'stamp' on the letter represent?
          Is there a 'postal' stamp showing that the letter was
          received by the processor and delivery agent? Details
          Harry, Details!

          HK: "From heaven we came, and to heaven WE do
          return. There is no doubt that WE will gather experiences.
          That goes with the turf. The question is, how much will
          WE gain from them?

          Do WE have more understanding? How about more
          compassion and love?

          No matter, for WE get sent back here until WE get our
          lessons right. There is no hurry. It is up to US to decide
          how quickly WE wish to progress. Heaven certainly Does
          Not care. WE each determine OUR own timetable. That is
          the whole of it, in spite of what other religions teach."

          ME: Whoa! Doesn't the ECKANKAR Religion teach Self-Mastery
          and Spiritual Freedom in This Lifetime?! Second Initiates
          don't have to come back (reincarnate)! Fifths are in a
          better situation. Don't the EK Initiations determine whether
          or not chelas have learned ("gained" and had "understanding")
          from their "experiences?" Sure! And, if a chela doesn't have
          "compassion" and "love" then shouldn't the Mahanta withhold
          those initiations!

          Klemp doesn't care about "timetables" he's a 14th!
          However, it is interesting that he is saying "we" so
          much. WHY does he include himself? Is this a feeble
          attempt at having empathy for his chelas? Or is Klemp
          being honest, for a brief moment, by implying that he
          isn't all he has claimed and that "we" are all in the same
          boat?! Perhaps his the thought of his mortality has caught
          up with him at age 65!

          It also shows that Klemp can't deliver what he has
          preached and this is just another delay tactic to keep
          them (chelas) hanging on. Pitiful isn't it!

          HK: "The best kind of experience is the selfless giving
          [until it hurts] of oneself as an ECK Vahana for the Mahanta."

          ME: See! I knew Klemp had to promote Vahanta service
          because this is how he gets his Free Sales Staff. The
          EK positions and initiations are just another form of
          an "Atta-boy" or "Atta-girl" or a "pat-on-the-back."
          And, all it gets a Chela is more responsibilities and
          a bigger ego! It's busy work to keep you from thinking
          too much and asking questions and to keep one distracted
          ... that's, also, where "surrender" and the "Law of Silence"
          come into play.

          HK: "Ellen' is one such. One day, she went to a large
          discount store. She had used the RESTROOM and noticed
          that the paper was gone [newspaper?], so she called it
          to the attention of a man standing by the shopping carts.
          Would he let someone know? 'Oh,' he said, 'I do that!'

          ME: I assume that the guy was in uniform so it wasn't
          that much of a stretch to guess he would take care of it.
          Still, this RESTROOM connection makes me think that "Ellen"
          might be Joan. Or, the Klemps' Public Restroom fixation
          has trickled down to the Vahanas. Anyway "Ellen" gave
          the guy (from Laos) a HU card and would go back often to
          the store and seek him out (stalk him) to say hi and laugh
          and giggle. On one occasion had a "nudge" to go to the store
          and she found out his wife had died and he was getting
          ready to fly her body back to Laos for burial. So "Ellen"
          gave the guy Another HU Card!

          HK: "Both noticed their 'accidental' meeting... Lessons,
          oh so many worthwhile ones to glean for ourself. Be sure
          to take full advantage of them."

          ME: When Klemp says, "take full advantage of them"
          it seems he is saying to take full advantage of people
          at a weak and strained time in their lives. Hand them
          "another" HU card and promote ECKANKAR. But, if
          everyone is on their own timetable and it doesn't matter
          to "heaven" them... Why interfere with their own unique
          experience? What makes Eckankar any better than what
          he has already? It's arrogance that Klemp is promoting,
          and this keeps his Free Sales Staff (missionaries) busy.

          Prometheus


          > prometheus wrote:
          > .............................PART 1..............................
          > > The following comments and insights are in
          > > reference to excerpts taken from this little
          > > known pub (The EK Mystic World).
          > >
          > > HK: "The Mahanta often intervenes when one
          > > of his charges gets in the way of harm, physically
          > > or spiritually."
          > >
          > > ME: Does the Mahanta's intervention from physical
          > > harm also include disease, or just accidents? Because
          > > if it's just from accidents then I could take credit,
          > > too, for those close calls where no harm was done.
          > > Or, on second thought, I could take credit for one's
          > > good health and for any minor or major miracles as
          > > well! Of course, if a person does get sick or has an
          > > "accident" that's on them for not believing in me
          > > strong enough! And, sometimes I hand out "spiritual
          > > tests" to strengthen one's belief and faith! And, let's
          > > not discount past life karma and those DNA effects,
          > > or present life karma too! Remember, I don't Always
          > > intervene, although I "often" do! Catch-22!
          > >
          > > HK: "His intervention may not be well taken,
          > > however, when it involves a CHANGE of plans
          > > or pain. The chela may take it very hard. So
          > > he complains bitterly."
          > >
          > > ME: Refer to what I previously stated.
          > >
          > > HK: "Rumi, the thirteenth-century poet, once said,
          > > 'What sort of person says that he or SHE wants to
          > > be polished and pure, then complains about being
          > > handled roughly?"
          > >
          > > ME Good one Klemp! Doug Marman will like the
          > > Rumi quote. Except, Rumi was Not even an EK Master
          > > so Why use his words over that of an EK Master...
          > > is this to placate Doug? And, since Rumi prayed
          > > to Allah (KAL or SATAN according to Klemp's
          > > "Autobiography" pg. 385) did Rumi really include
          > > women ("she")? And, WHO is Rumi referring to
          > > when he mentions people complaining about being
          > > "Handled Roughly?" Is this Allah or Muhammad
          > > (KAL) handling them roughly? Therefore, Klemp
          > > must, also, be an agent of the KAL since HK is
          > > relating what he does to/for people and what
          > > Rumi's "God" does to/for people!
          > >
          > > Anyway, Klemp now gets into a story where Carol
          > > knows some ECKists who have a 18 month old baby
          > > and the idiot mother lets the kid eat a radish and
          > > the baby starts to choke and the mother has to turn
          > > the kid upside down and hit her on the back until
          > > the radish is spit out. The kid is perceived at giving
          > > the mother an angry look for being hit (for her own
          > > good) and Klemp is relating this back to ECKists
          > > complaining about their injuries (rough handling/
          > > polishing) when it is all for their own good.
          > >
          > > Therefore, chelas who complain are like 18 month
          > > old babies and Klemp (the Mahanta) is like this idiot
          > > mother! The moral of the story is: Grow Up and keep
          > > silent. Don't complain because it's for your own good!
          > >
          > > Is it possible that ECKists don't see the Game that
          > > Klemp is playing? Do Religions really offer Change?
          > >
          > > Remember: "The Mahanta OFTEN intervenes when one
          > > when one of his charges gets in the WAY of HARM..."
          > > So, is it really necessary to choke on the radish? When
          > > does Klemp take responsibility for anything ever? Never!
          > >
          > > ECKists will turn Blue in the face if they hold their
          > > breaths waiting for Klemp to take ownership.
          > >
          > > BTW- Why does anyone need a middleman Mahanta
          > > to intercede for them? ECKANKAR is sounding more
          > > and more like the Catholic Church and Klemp is like
          > > the Pope! Except, the Cardinals (RESAs) get to choose
          > > the next Pope (LEM/Mahanta). Catch-22 again!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Eckankar seeks out the lowly and ignorant for membership into their religion. The Shariyat Two states in Ch. 4: One of the most provocative of all things in
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 15, 2008
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            Eckankar seeks out the lowly and ignorant for
            membership into their religion. The Shariyat
            Two states in Ch. 4:

            "One of the most provocative of all things in the
            works of the ECK is the gathering of the lowly and
            the ignorant at the feet of the Mahanta, the Living
            ECK Master. It's puzzling to realize that they find
            him, when millions of the BEST people in the world
            have failed to find him.

            Whatever moves them to seek spiritual liberation
            when they can scarcely know more to eat, sleep,
            breed and work?

            But it is doubtful that many know what they are
            seeking, or what urge has brought them to this
            strange quest."

            ME: Even after many years in Eckankar the truth
            behind the dogma is intentionally misrepresented
            and distorted. The lies and the scam must continue!

            Excerts from The Wisdom Notes 03/2008 (Part 2):

            HK: "From heaven we came, and to heaven WE do
            return. There is no doubt that WE will gather experiences.
            That goes with the turf. The question is, How much
            will WE gain from them?

            Do WE have More Understanding? How about More
            Compassion and Love?

            NO MATTER, for WE get sent back here until WE get
            our lessons right. There is no hurry. It is up to US to
            decide how quickly WE wish to progress. Heaven certainly
            Does Not care. WE each determine OUR own timetable.
            That is the whole of it, in spite of what other religions
            teach. You are the letter; your body, the envelope."


            ME: Klemp is saying that Having More Understanding
            and Learning of Compassion and Love via experiences
            is Not Important, and is of "No Matter" because Heaven
            is in "No Hurry" and neither should Soul be in a hurry.
            What does he care he's a 14th and he's a fraud!

            However, Klemp seems to omit a Shariyat tidbit about
            "experiences." In Eckankar the Negative Experiences are
            those that are sought out because this is how Soul grows.
            Yet, ECKists are taught the opposite and are told Not to
            be Negative, Astral or KAL like.

            In the Shariyat 2 Chapter 1:

            "The ECK language is always confused with factual
            language... according to the liberation [of Soul]
            experience there is so much said of what it is not,
            and little or nothing said of what it is... This is the
            Negation of the experience, but it must be considered,
            for Without Negation the Experience is Not of Importance
            to the Individual... The filling up is needed in order to
            understand the fulfillment. This Is Why The ECK Teachings
            Concentrate Quite Frequently On The Negativeness of
            Self, on liberation of It from the so-called concepts of
            truth... Soul is Total Consciousness."

            So, what's the purpose of Klemp (the Mahanta) again?

            Prometheus
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