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Behind The Scenes With Harold Klemp

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  • prometheus_973
    Behind The Scenes With Harold Klemp What was happening Behind the Scenes With Harold Klemp in the latter part of 1998? In the previous 09/1998 EK Wisdom
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 22, 2008
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      Behind The Scenes With Harold Klemp

      What was happening "Behind the Scenes
      With Harold Klemp" in the latter part of 1998?

      In the previous 09/1998 EK Wisdom Notes
      Klemp tried to give justification as to Why he
      thinks he is a "14th" Circle "Full" Mahanta by
      saying he "inherited" the position while those
      like Sudar Singh and Darwin Gross had only
      been "appointed."

      This "carved-in-stone" lock on one's spiritual
      growth, somehow, "sealed their fate" to Only
      become 12th Circle LEMs! However, this is
      contrary to the LAW of SPIRITUAL GROWTH.
      And, there is no proof, anywhere, of what Klemp
      states as being true, or that he is a real ECK
      Master since he was "appointed" by a "Black
      Magician" Darwin Gross!

      Now, only two months later, Klemp is giving
      another argument, in the 12/1998 EK Wisdom
      Notes, as to why he is a Mahanta and Others
      Weren't, and Will Not Be in the Future!

      HK: "1. The First Five Spiritual LEADERS of
      Modern-Day ECKANKAR.... Rather than being
      a person, it is MORE accurate to call it a STAGE,
      or POSITION."

      ME: Already Klemp is changing the story! He
      must be making it up as he's writing it down.

      HK: "This POSITION may be filled by FIVE or
      MORE SUCCESSIVE ECK Masters (Twelfth
      Circle of ECK Initiations) who will serve as Living
      ECK Master BEFORE the next Mahanta, the
      Living ECK Master (Fourteenth Circle) comes
      to fill the FIFTH POSITION."

      ME: Is this HK's version of "Consciousness
      Five?" Doesn't this, also, apply to AFTER the
      Last Mahanta?! Klemp has previously stated
      in the 09/1998 Wisdom Notes that Twitchell was
      "a Mahanta!" That means that neither DG
      or himself were/are 14th Circle Mahantas since:

      "THIS POSITION MAY BE FILLED BY FIVE or
      MORE SUCCESSIVE ECK MASTERS (TWELFTH
      CIRCLE of ECK INITIATIONS) BEFORE THE
      NEXT MAHANTA... (FOURTEENTH CIRCLE)"

      Klemp tried to confuse people by having them
      assume that he was a Mahanta, but who says
      he is?! DG never proclaimed HK a Mahanta.
      The blue carnation thing is just EK tradition.
      Gail presented DG with one in Oct. 1971!

      However, HK stated that PT was a Mahanta
      and that 5 to 7 "successive" others will be 12th
      Circle LEMs BEFORE the next Mahanta!

      This means that the 972nd, 973rd, 974th, 975th
      and 976th (and maybe the 977th & 978th) LEMs
      are of the 12th Circle and are Not 14th Circle
      Mahantas! Klemp continues his "as if" delusion
      and gives the reason for why the World Does
      Not need a Mahanta since world consciousness
      has "slowed-down."

      HK: "The reason? The coming of the next Mahanta
      of the Fourteenth Circle depends upon Spiritual
      need. All Souls, in all Universes, determine That
      Need, for as the Group Entity their Spiritual Progress
      is the Final Key. Will this Group Entity stay on the
      Fast Track to God or Stop along the Path to Rest?
      IT HAS CHOSEN REST."

      ME: Interesting, that Klemp is giving the reason
      as to Why he's NOT a Mahanta!

      HK: "Free Will allows the Group Entity, and all
      the individuals within it, to go at their own speed.
      Earth is a Reflection of the Universal Group Entity.
      Current Events since then have seen a gradual
      Sow-Down of people's Spiritual Drive as Evidenced
      in a renewed interest in WARFARE and SOCIAL
      WELFARE. Until these Souls are ready to shoulder
      their Own Responsibilities again, THEY'LL REST."

      ME: I guess this was, also, Klemp's excuse for
      Slowing-Down the ECK Initiations! It does make
      sense, especially, since he's just a 12th Circle
      LEM and Not a FULL 14th Circle Mahanta!
      On the other hand... doesn't this lower consciousness
      World need a boost, or balanced out with individuals
      having Higher Initiations/Consciousness?! Klemp
      messed up on that one too! Catch-22!

      ###
      HK: "So FIVE or SEVEN Living ECK Masters
      of the Twelfth Circle will SERVE SUCCESSIVELY
      in the FOURTH LEADERSHIP STAGE, or POSITION,
      UNTIL THE TIME IS RIGHT. AFTER THAT COMES
      THE NEXT MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master
      of the Fourteenth Circle."
      ###

      ME: With all of the "Warfare" and "Social Welfare"
      taking place Here and Now it seems like the
      Universe is still NOT Yet Ready for a 14th Circle
      Mahanta. This is from Klemp's own mouth! So,
      Why does Klemp claim to be a 14th Circle Mahanta?

      Once again, Klemp is taking the position that he
      is a Mahanta and that there will be 5-7 after him
      who will be only 12th Circle LEMs. BUT what's
      good for the goose is good for the gander (a witticism
      Klemp has used)!

      Who NOW says Klemp is a Mahanta... Klemp
      does! Otherwise, it's called Second Guessing
      or Assuming "as if" he is!

      However, according to Klemp's own words and
      criteria of "inherit" versus "appoint" TWITCHELL
      WAS A MAHANTA, therefore, 5-7 12th CIRCLE
      LEMs will fill the EK Leadership position BEFORE
      another 14th Circle Mahanta will come on the
      scene! Therefore, Klemp's own words prove
      that he is a 12th Circle LEM... Case Closed!

      A Key in seeing through HK's flawed logic is
      by his own admission, in the 09/1998 EK Wisdom
      Notes, that Twitchell was also a 14th Circle Mahanta!

      Therefore, when looking at "Warfare and Social
      Welfare," of the Lower World Consciousness, it
      would seem we are Not ready for a Mahanta!
      Therefore, (by HK's own criteria) After Twitchell,
      there should be "5 or 7 Successive 12th Circle
      LEMs BEFORE the next 14th Circle Mahanta."
      Maybe this is why PT mentioned there was
      500-1,000 years between LEMs & Mahantas.

      Why shouldn't Klemp see that the same standard,
      he created (5 or 7 successive 12ths before next
      14th) shouldn't apply to both Darwin and to himself?
      Shouldn't there be 12th Circle LEMs After Twitchell...
      a 14th Circle Mahanta? How often did Twitchell claim
      that a Mahanta comes onto the scene... I believe
      PT (at first) said every 500 to 1,000 years, and
      Klemp edited this and made it 5 to 1,000 years.

      So why this controversy with the LEM/Mahanta
      position? Well, it's because Before 1969 there
      weren't ANY 14th Circle Mahantas! In the Beginning
      (1965) there was only the "living Master" title. Later,
      it was changed to the "Living ECK Master" title!
      Then came the "LEM/Mahanta" title (in 1969),
      and Klemp, later, Flip-Flopped it to the "Mahanta/LEM."
      Other editing has changed the original context
      in the Shariyats too!

      However, if one looks at some of the unedited
      EK text it appears that every LEM is also a Mahanta.
      Twitchell's ECKANKAR Dictionary, for "LEM,"
      will at the end refer the reader to: "See Mahanta
      Consciousness." There is No "Mahanta" title
      Listed by Twitchell in the his 1973 Eckankar
      Dictionary, and the definition for "Mahanta
      Consciousness" Does Not mention the "full force"
      of that (position) or the "14th" Circle of Initiation!
      Klemp has made the "Mahanta Consciousness"
      into a "Full 14th" Circle "Fifth Position."

      Klemp edited Paul's description for the Living ECK
      Master title. This is another ploy to make himself
      a 14th Circle Mahanta when he was just a 12th
      Circle LEM like Darwin Gross and Sudar Singh...
      so he claims. The real truth is that they are all of
      the 0 (zero, circle) of Consciousness.

      LET ME POINT OUT THAT KLEMP IS NOT SAYING
      THAT HE IS MAKING A PROPHECY ON THESE 5 or
      7 LEMs. AND, HE'S NOT EVEN BEING PRECISE
      WHEN HE SAYS 5 "OR" 7! DOES THIS MEAN THAT
      EITHER THE 6TH OR 8TH LEM "AFTER" HK WILL
      ALSO BE A MAHANTA, BUT NOT THE 7TH or 9TH?
      Oh well, who's going to care by then!

      With Klemp, Treachery and Hypocrisy is a Promise
      of Love coming from a Mouth of Lies.

      Prometheus

      p.s.- When did HK start to wear glasses? Did
      HK once wear contacts out of vanity, and before
      this was asked of him in an Initiate Report?
      I noticed that in the 09/1998, 12/1998, and 03/1999
      EK Mystic World that HK wore glasses in the
      front page photos, but in the Wisdom Notes
      "official photo" that he didn't!
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