Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

link

Expand Messages
  • christel_heine2003
    Thanks Mish for the link to Klemps old church. To my mail yesterday and just now: cannot retrieve message 3151 for ESA . So i try it again! It was interesting
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 12 8:10 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks Mish for the link to Klemps old church.
      To my mail yesterday and just now: "cannot retrieve message 3151 for
      ESA". So i try it again!
      It was interesting to read and to find other Klemps there!
      As you said, the "Z" is good explainable in this way and Prometheus now
      had it confirmed!
      Thanks all, Christel
    • mishmisha9
      Some of HK s family members are still active members of this church, including one of his brothers. His mother remained faithful to the church until her death
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 12 12:04 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Some of HK's family members are still active members of this church,
        including one of his brothers. His mother remained faithful to the church
        until her death in 2005.

        http://www.zion-fremont.com/History.html

        It says a lot that his close family members didn't buy into his mahanta
        and eckankar crap! LOL!

        Of course, I can only imagine how sensational it might have been if any
        of these relatives including his mother read about the mahanta (HK, her son)
        being born of a virgin! Not possible since HK had an older brother. : )

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "christel_heine2003"
        <Christel-Heine@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Mish for the link to Klemps old church.
        > To my mail yesterday and just now: "cannot retrieve message 3151 for
        > ESA". So i try it again!
        > It was interesting to read and to find other Klemps there!
        > As you said, the "Z" is good explainable in this way and Prometheus now
        > had it confirmed!
        > Thanks all, Christel
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish and All, You make some very good points and raise some new questions. It now becomes obvious that Klemp has blatantly avoided these tough questions
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 13 5:38 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Mish and All,
          You make some very good points and raise some new
          questions. It now becomes obvious that Klemp has
          blatantly avoided these tough questions regarding
          ECK Dogma printed in ECKANKAR's Holy Book "The
          Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One." HK's manipulation
          is one of fear and distraction in order to keep ECKists
          from knowing the Truth and asking more pertinent
          questions. This is where the Law of Silence, Surrender,
          Catch-22 ploys, and the RESA Police come into play.

          On pages 111-112 of the SHARIYAT BOOKS 1&2
          is stated that:

          (1) "The MAHANTA is ALWAYS BORN NEAR or ON a
          LARGE BODY of WATER.

          (2) His BIRTH is ALWAYS MYSTERIOUS, and MEN of
          ORDINARY BIRTH Do Not Know His ORIGIN.

          (3) NOR does ANY MAN KNOW WHO HIS SIRES MIGHT
          BE, THEIR TRUE NAMES, Or THEIR TRUE ORIGIN...

          (4) The ECK Enters Into the WOMB of a VIRGIN, the
          QUEEN of HEAVEN,

          (5) who has SUBMITTED to the TRUE SPIRIT of the
          UNIVERSE... When the embodiment of flesh is
          brought into this world,

          (6) a MAN-CHILD is BORN...

          (7) Then the CHOSEN ONE learns that he is the LIVING
          ECK MASTER of HIS TIMES."

          HOWEVER:

          (1) Klemp was born in the Fremont/Appleton, WI.
          area and Not "Near or On a Large Body of Water."

          (2) His "Birth" was NOT "Mysterious" because we
          know the year and place of HK's birth and...

          (3) We can know who HK's parents were and who
          his brother(s) and sister were/are (names) via of
          Internet sites. HK even named his daughter Gail
          (middle name) in order to suck up to Darwin & Gail
          and get attention! Yet HK makes it sound like Gross
          (the black magician) chose him due to his spirituality!

          Plus, it's obvious that Twitchell was writing about
          himself in the SHARIYAT in order to have a FAIL-SAFE
          & as a Divine Standard that one must possess in order
          to qualify as the LEM/Mahanta in case frauds, or mini-
          masters like Gross and Klemp tried to take over the
          helm of ECKANKAR. Those after Twitchell Do Not fit
          the LEM/Mahanta Criteria given in the EK Holy Scripture...
          The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One.

          (4) Harold Klemp's mother was NOT A VIRGIN WHEN
          HE WAS BORN because KLEMP HAD AN OLDER BROTHER!

          (5) Therefore she could Not have "Submitted to the
          True Spirit of the Universe." And, unlike Jesus' mother
          Mary, Harold's mother didn't follow her son's teachings!
          She was a member of this ZION Church until her death
          in June of 2005 at the age of 91!

          (6&7) The Shariyat states that a "MAN CHILD" is born
          and "He" will be "Chosen" the "LEM/MAHANTA" of
          "His Times." Where does JOAN fit into this? Was she
          born as a Man Child? Still, does Joan fit the rest of
          the criteria? I don't think so. There has only been
          one LEM/Mahanta.... Twitchell.

          Is it okay with ECKists that these contradictions exist?
          Apparently! Have they really thought it out? Probably
          Not! They can't really question this because they would
          just be told to "take it to the inner." And, look at all of
          the other Bull Sh_t they've bought into without question
          and as a Leap of Faith.

          Still, what do the EK Board Members and long-time H.I.s
          think of this? Oh well, with all of those years, money, time
          and friendships invested it's easy to just put the blinders
          on or stick one's head into the sand. Just ignore what the
          Shariyat states... it's Only the criteria for Mahanta and
          doesn't really pertain to Chelas or to their spiritual lives
          does it?!

          BTW- In HK's mother's obituary he wasn't listed as
          "Sri" or "Rev" Harold Klemp. I wonder if he and Joan
          (and Marge) showed up for the funeral since he chose
          not to go to his father's funeral?

          Anyway, it's all a scam and Klemp isn't even close to
          being a Mahanta by the Shariyat's specific standards!

          Shouldn't there be some standard? Isn't that one
          reason WHY Bibles and "Holy Scriptures" are written?

          Maybe there should be a recall. Klemp misrepresented
          himself and it seems like ECKists could legally have him
          removed from office! After all, Klemp didn't tell Darwin
          of his bridge jumping episode, or airport strip-tease and
          of his arrest, or of his three week mental institution stay!
          Darwin would never have chosen a mentally unstable person
          with a criminal record. It's a PR nightmare to try and "spin!"
          Klemp withheld the truth from Gross and of how he tricked
          the psychologist and learned to 'play the game' to be released.
          Klemp then 'played the game' with Darwin because DG thought
          HK was meek and could be controlled and would be doing
          his "writing" (as LEM) for him while DG played the role
          of Mahanta.

          HK had Darwin, the Mahanta, removed, thus, this is a
          legal Past Practice that has taken place. Darwin was the
          Mahanta and Klemp's "Master" while HK was only the
          LEM. This is why HK is trying to say DG was not a "full"
          Mahanta and that he is. Still, I'll bet Darwin fits the
          Shariyat Criteria for a LEM/Mahanta more than Klemp
          does! However, other ECKists probably fit the Shariyat
          criteria for Mahantaship even more so, but the politics
          of deceit and power in the EK religion (and in all religions)
          will keep them repressed. Keeping chelas silent & under
          control via required annual membership fees, desires
          for higher initiation numbers, Guidelines, rules, trainings,
          service, and EK materials donations is one of the jobs of
          the ESC and of the local RESA Police.

          Prometheus

          ON CONSCIOUSNESS FIVE (1971):

          p.s. In Chapter 32, page 323 of Klemp's Autobiography
          HK mentions that at the Fifth EWWS that Paul had called
          it "CONSCIOUSNESS FIVE." I though this was just because
          it was the 5th EK World Wide Seminar, but Klemp states
          that this is Not so! Klemp states that, "This seminar PROMISED
          an UPLIFTMENT for the ENTIRE MOVEMENT OF ECKANKAR."
          "THIS MEANT THE HIGH AWARENESS FROM THE FIFTH PLANE,
          beyond the realms of cosmic consciousness, Buddha
          Consciousness, and the Christ Consciousness of the orthodox
          religions."

          So, in October 1971 Twitchell was promising "Consciousness
          Five" and "the High Awareness from the Fifth Plane... for the
          Entire Movement of ECKANKAR." What happened? HK can
          blame DG for 10 years of Not doing his job, although, DG
          gave out a lot more Higher Initiations than Klemp ever did!
          What happened to "CON Five (or more)" with Klemp over
          25 YEARS of mini-mastership? Maybe that's the problem!
          Klemp is a mini-master because he doesn't fullfil the Shariyat
          criteria for that of a "real" LEM/Mahanta!


          mish wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > Some of HK's family members are still active members of this church,
          > including one of his brothers. His mother remained faithful to the church
          > until her death in 2005.
          > >
          > http://www.zion-fremont.com/History.html
          > >
          > It says a lot that his close family members didn't buy into his mahanta
          > and eckankar crap! LOL!
          > >
          > Of course, I can only imagine how sensational it might have been if any
          > of these relatives including his mother read about the mahanta (HK, her son)
          > being born of a virgin! Not possible since HK had an older brother. : )
          > >
          > Mish
          >
          > Re: ECKANKAR Is A Copy Of Other Lower Plane Religions
          >
          > Hi Mish, Christel, and All,
          > When looking at Rev. Harold Klemp's former
          > Church 'Z'ion Evangelical Lutheran --Missouri
          > Synod I saw that there were 2 other Klemp's
          > listed as Past members/founders and a third
          > is a Present-day member!
          >
          > Yes, it could be that this ZION connection is
          > one subconscious source for Klemp choosing
          > 'Z' for his spiritual name. Although, when Klemp
          > was almost finished writing "The Wind of Change"
          > (circa Spring 1980) he was writing a Chapter on
          > his family's farm cat named Zsa Zsa. Klemp wrote
          > her name and 'Z' over 40 times in this chapter!
          >
          > This Chapter on Zsa Zsa was written around the
          > time Darwin Gross asked Klemp to come up with
          > his "spiritual name." Klemp, at first, just came up
          > with 'Z.' Darwin (the Black Magician) suggested
          > adding the "WAH" to make it "WAH-Z." [Soul Travelers
          > of the Far Country, Ch. 7]
          >
          > Klemp's Spiritual Name was given to him by a
          > [Past/Present/Future?] Black Magician and Wah-Z
          > is still used today as a "Charged Word" for chanting
          > during ECK Spiritual Exercises. However, other contributions
          > etc. by Gross are forbidden for ECKists to see, read,
          > or speak of. Darwin's name is forbidden to use
          > and ECKists who speak his name at ECK functions
          > are placed on a "watch list" by their H.I. Leaders,
          > RESA and the ESC.
          >
          > Apparently Klemp still fears Darwin's influence over
          > his chelas. One wonders WHY HK (the Mahanta) can't
          > "protect" them from DG's spiritual influence?! Maybe
          > the "WAH" needs to be dropped from Klemp's spiritual
          > name since Darwin contributed it! Klemp needs to do
          > more editing and rewrites to "Change" more ECK history!
          >
          > BTW-Maybe the influence of Luther & 'Z'wingli, also,
          > Subconsciously influenced HK to choose 'Z' since
          > he sees himself as a "reformer" of sorts. Klemp
          > was definitely a crazed bridge jumping 'Z'ealot! : )
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > mish wrote:
          > Here's the link to the church Klemp grew up in:
          >
          > http://www.zion-fremont.com/History.html
          >
          > The Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church--
          > Missouri Synod, located in Freemont WI.
          > >
          > Ever wonder how Klemp got the "Z" in his
          > spiritual name? LOL!
          > >
          > Anyway, click on the links to learn about this
          > branch of the Lutheran Church-very interesting! : )
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.