- Thanks Mish for the link to Klemps old church.
To my mail yesterday and just now: "cannot retrieve message 3151 for
ESA". So i try it again!
It was interesting to read and to find other Klemps there!
As you said, the "Z" is good explainable in this way and Prometheus now
had it confirmed!
Thanks all, Christel
- Some of HK's family members are still active members of this church,
including one of his brothers. His mother remained faithful to the church
until her death in 2005.
It says a lot that his close family members didn't buy into his mahanta
and eckankar crap! LOL!
Of course, I can only imagine how sensational it might have been if any
of these relatives including his mother read about the mahanta (HK, her son)
being born of a virgin! Not possible since HK had an older brother. : )
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "christel_heine2003"
> Thanks Mish for the link to Klemps old church.
> To my mail yesterday and just now: "cannot retrieve message 3151 for
> ESA". So i try it again!
> It was interesting to read and to find other Klemps there!
> As you said, the "Z" is good explainable in this way and Prometheus now
> had it confirmed!
> Thanks all, Christel
- Hi Mish and All,
You make some very good points and raise some new
questions. It now becomes obvious that Klemp has
blatantly avoided these tough questions regarding
ECK Dogma printed in ECKANKAR's Holy Book "The
Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One." HK's manipulation
is one of fear and distraction in order to keep ECKists
from knowing the Truth and asking more pertinent
questions. This is where the Law of Silence, Surrender,
Catch-22 ploys, and the RESA Police come into play.
On pages 111-112 of the SHARIYAT BOOKS 1&2
is stated that:
(1) "The MAHANTA is ALWAYS BORN NEAR or ON a
LARGE BODY of WATER.
(2) His BIRTH is ALWAYS MYSTERIOUS, and MEN of
ORDINARY BIRTH Do Not Know His ORIGIN.
(3) NOR does ANY MAN KNOW WHO HIS SIRES MIGHT
BE, THEIR TRUE NAMES, Or THEIR TRUE ORIGIN...
(4) The ECK Enters Into the WOMB of a VIRGIN, the
QUEEN of HEAVEN,
(5) who has SUBMITTED to the TRUE SPIRIT of the
UNIVERSE... When the embodiment of flesh is
brought into this world,
(6) a MAN-CHILD is BORN...
(7) Then the CHOSEN ONE learns that he is the LIVING
ECK MASTER of HIS TIMES."
(1) Klemp was born in the Fremont/Appleton, WI.
area and Not "Near or On a Large Body of Water."
(2) His "Birth" was NOT "Mysterious" because we
know the year and place of HK's birth and...
(3) We can know who HK's parents were and who
his brother(s) and sister were/are (names) via of
Internet sites. HK even named his daughter Gail
(middle name) in order to suck up to Darwin & Gail
and get attention! Yet HK makes it sound like Gross
(the black magician) chose him due to his spirituality!
Plus, it's obvious that Twitchell was writing about
himself in the SHARIYAT in order to have a FAIL-SAFE
& as a Divine Standard that one must possess in order
to qualify as the LEM/Mahanta in case frauds, or mini-
masters like Gross and Klemp tried to take over the
helm of ECKANKAR. Those after Twitchell Do Not fit
the LEM/Mahanta Criteria given in the EK Holy Scripture...
The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One.
(4) Harold Klemp's mother was NOT A VIRGIN WHEN
HE WAS BORN because KLEMP HAD AN OLDER BROTHER!
(5) Therefore she could Not have "Submitted to the
True Spirit of the Universe." And, unlike Jesus' mother
Mary, Harold's mother didn't follow her son's teachings!
She was a member of this ZION Church until her death
in June of 2005 at the age of 91!
(6&7) The Shariyat states that a "MAN CHILD" is born
and "He" will be "Chosen" the "LEM/MAHANTA" of
"His Times." Where does JOAN fit into this? Was she
born as a Man Child? Still, does Joan fit the rest of
the criteria? I don't think so. There has only been
one LEM/Mahanta.... Twitchell.
Is it okay with ECKists that these contradictions exist?
Apparently! Have they really thought it out? Probably
Not! They can't really question this because they would
just be told to "take it to the inner." And, look at all of
the other Bull Sh_t they've bought into without question
and as a Leap of Faith.
Still, what do the EK Board Members and long-time H.I.s
think of this? Oh well, with all of those years, money, time
and friendships invested it's easy to just put the blinders
on or stick one's head into the sand. Just ignore what the
Shariyat states... it's Only the criteria for Mahanta and
doesn't really pertain to Chelas or to their spiritual lives
BTW- In HK's mother's obituary he wasn't listed as
"Sri" or "Rev" Harold Klemp. I wonder if he and Joan
(and Marge) showed up for the funeral since he chose
not to go to his father's funeral?
Anyway, it's all a scam and Klemp isn't even close to
being a Mahanta by the Shariyat's specific standards!
Shouldn't there be some standard? Isn't that one
reason WHY Bibles and "Holy Scriptures" are written?
Maybe there should be a recall. Klemp misrepresented
himself and it seems like ECKists could legally have him
removed from office! After all, Klemp didn't tell Darwin
of his bridge jumping episode, or airport strip-tease and
of his arrest, or of his three week mental institution stay!
Darwin would never have chosen a mentally unstable person
with a criminal record. It's a PR nightmare to try and "spin!"
Klemp withheld the truth from Gross and of how he tricked
the psychologist and learned to 'play the game' to be released.
Klemp then 'played the game' with Darwin because DG thought
HK was meek and could be controlled and would be doing
his "writing" (as LEM) for him while DG played the role
HK had Darwin, the Mahanta, removed, thus, this is a
legal Past Practice that has taken place. Darwin was the
Mahanta and Klemp's "Master" while HK was only the
LEM. This is why HK is trying to say DG was not a "full"
Mahanta and that he is. Still, I'll bet Darwin fits the
Shariyat Criteria for a LEM/Mahanta more than Klemp
does! However, other ECKists probably fit the Shariyat
criteria for Mahantaship even more so, but the politics
of deceit and power in the EK religion (and in all religions)
will keep them repressed. Keeping chelas silent & under
control via required annual membership fees, desires
for higher initiation numbers, Guidelines, rules, trainings,
service, and EK materials donations is one of the jobs of
the ESC and of the local RESA Police.
ON CONSCIOUSNESS FIVE (1971):
p.s. In Chapter 32, page 323 of Klemp's Autobiography
HK mentions that at the Fifth EWWS that Paul had called
it "CONSCIOUSNESS FIVE." I though this was just because
it was the 5th EK World Wide Seminar, but Klemp states
that this is Not so! Klemp states that, "This seminar PROMISED
an UPLIFTMENT for the ENTIRE MOVEMENT OF ECKANKAR."
"THIS MEANT THE HIGH AWARENESS FROM THE FIFTH PLANE,
beyond the realms of cosmic consciousness, Buddha
Consciousness, and the Christ Consciousness of the orthodox
So, in October 1971 Twitchell was promising "Consciousness
Five" and "the High Awareness from the Fifth Plane... for the
Entire Movement of ECKANKAR." What happened? HK can
blame DG for 10 years of Not doing his job, although, DG
gave out a lot more Higher Initiations than Klemp ever did!
What happened to "CON Five (or more)" with Klemp over
25 YEARS of mini-mastership? Maybe that's the problem!
Klemp is a mini-master because he doesn't fullfil the Shariyat
criteria for that of a "real" LEM/Mahanta!
> Some of HK's family members are still active members of this church,
> including one of his brothers. His mother remained faithful to the church
> until her death in 2005.
> It says a lot that his close family members didn't buy into his mahanta
> and eckankar crap! LOL!
> Of course, I can only imagine how sensational it might have been if any
> of these relatives including his mother read about the mahanta (HK, her son)
> being born of a virgin! Not possible since HK had an older brother. : )
> Re: ECKANKAR Is A Copy Of Other Lower Plane Religions
> Hi Mish, Christel, and All,
> When looking at Rev. Harold Klemp's former
> Church 'Z'ion Evangelical Lutheran --Missouri
> Synod I saw that there were 2 other Klemp's
> listed as Past members/founders and a third
> is a Present-day member!
> Yes, it could be that this ZION connection is
> one subconscious source for Klemp choosing
> 'Z' for his spiritual name. Although, when Klemp
> was almost finished writing "The Wind of Change"
> (circa Spring 1980) he was writing a Chapter on
> his family's farm cat named Zsa Zsa. Klemp wrote
> her name and 'Z' over 40 times in this chapter!
> This Chapter on Zsa Zsa was written around the
> time Darwin Gross asked Klemp to come up with
> his "spiritual name." Klemp, at first, just came up
> with 'Z.' Darwin (the Black Magician) suggested
> adding the "WAH" to make it "WAH-Z." [Soul Travelers
> of the Far Country, Ch. 7]
> Klemp's Spiritual Name was given to him by a
> [Past/Present/Future?] Black Magician and Wah-Z
> is still used today as a "Charged Word" for chanting
> during ECK Spiritual Exercises. However, other contributions
> etc. by Gross are forbidden for ECKists to see, read,
> or speak of. Darwin's name is forbidden to use
> and ECKists who speak his name at ECK functions
> are placed on a "watch list" by their H.I. Leaders,
> RESA and the ESC.
> Apparently Klemp still fears Darwin's influence over
> his chelas. One wonders WHY HK (the Mahanta) can't
> "protect" them from DG's spiritual influence?! Maybe
> the "WAH" needs to be dropped from Klemp's spiritual
> name since Darwin contributed it! Klemp needs to do
> more editing and rewrites to "Change" more ECK history!
> BTW-Maybe the influence of Luther & 'Z'wingli, also,
> Subconsciously influenced HK to choose 'Z' since
> he sees himself as a "reformer" of sorts. Klemp
> was definitely a crazed bridge jumping 'Z'ealot! : )
> mish wrote:
> Here's the link to the church Klemp grew up in:
> The Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church--
> Missouri Synod, located in Freemont WI.
> Ever wonder how Klemp got the "Z" in his
> spiritual name? LOL!
> Anyway, click on the links to learn about this
> branch of the Lutheran Church-very interesting! : )