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Re: ECKANKAR Is A Copy Of Other Lower Plane Religions

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  • mishmisha9
    Here s the link to the church Klemp grew up in: http://www.zion-fremont.com/History.html The Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, located in
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 10, 2008
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      Here's the link to the church Klemp grew up in:

      http://www.zion-fremont.com/History.html

      The Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod,
      located in Freemont WI.

      Ever wonder how Klemp got the "Z" in his spiritual name? LOL!

      Anyway, click on the links to learn about this branch of the
      Lutheran Church-very interesting! : )


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > You're right, Christel, that chelas are taught that eckankar is
      > the original religion and all other religions have copied it. Funny
      > thing is how "twisted" HK has twisted eckankar into a somewhat
      > spinoff from his early religion--Missouri Lutheran Synod. I was
      > looking at the church he grew up in website, their rules and such,
      > and gee, I could see how HK used some of that in his "new"
      > eckankar. That's not being original for sure, but of course all
      > religions including the Missouri Lutheran Synod, Eckankar, etc. all
      > believe they have the inside track on truth. So silly really! LOL! I
      > believe these man-made religions are only distractions with a lot
      > of control and manipulation going on, interfering with people's
      > lives. It's an inside track to delusion and confusion as chelas disappear
      > into more and more of the cult trappings! : )
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "christel_heine2003"
      > <Christel-Heine@> wrote:
      > >
      > > 'Eckankar is no copy' - when i said this.
      > > The answer was the information about the Akasha Chronic: there all
      > > are going to and get their text.... and: it isn't god to read other
      > > books as Eckankars, so i was told! so surrender Eckists couldn't know
      > > about their origins!
      > > Have you forgotten this important sujets? lol, Christel
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Etznab and All,
      > > > It is interesting that many ECKists have not read
      > > > all that much in regard to Hinduism, or else they
      > > > would have recognized the similarities with EK.
      > > >
      > > > I still have many books on Hinduism that I bought
      > > > before and after joining ECKANKAR. I was always
      > > > amazed that so many ECKists knew so little about
      > > > the true origins of much of the EK dogma. I too,
      > > > only several years ago, discovered even more of
      > > > these Hindu/Sikh connections from reading "Confessions
      > > > of a God Seeker" and "The Path of the Masters."
      > > > Thus, the contradictions, and the conspiracy of lies
      > > > and cover-up is what opened my eyes to the fraud
      > > > that began with Twitchell and continues with Klemp.
      > > >
      > > > Can't ECKists connect the dots? They should be
      > > > able to see, by now, one would think. Don't they
      > > > find it interesting that these ancient writings related
      > > > to Vedanta, etc. are from people (Not ECK Masters)
      > > > who are able to express their higher consciousness
      > > > and spiritual understanding to a greater degree than
      > > > the present day Mahanta, Klemp, whose Mahanta
      > > > Consciousness is supposed to be the Highest on
      > > > All of the Planes of SUGMAD! Klemp's lame writings
      > > > are a joke and ECKists don't get the joke!
      > > >
      > > > Yes, with the technology of the INTERNET it's much
      > > > more difficult for Klemp and company to hide the
      > > > truth and keep his chelas in the dark. But, as P.T.
      > > > Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every second."
      > > > It's just too bad that those who need to be "followers"
      > > > can't find something better and with more depth.
      > > > I guess that's also WHY Klemp can't write any new
      > > > Shariyats. How could he ever duplicate what Twitchell
      > > > had "compiled?" Yet, shouldn't HK be able to write
      > > > a book that could, at least, equal one of PT's Shariyats!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Etznab wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus,
      > > >
      > > > What I find most amazing is how much of what is taught
      > > > today, it was also around yesterday.
      > > >
      > > > In the illustrations you gave on Vedanta and the Hindu
      > > > paths, I saw a lot of good wisdom. Useful information, in
      > > > other words. At the same time, it never ceases to amaze
      > > > me how much of what is considered "new" is, in fact, new
      > > > only for people who seem to witness it for the first time.
      > > > I'm not saying I think you witnessed those teachings for
      > > > the first time just recently. But for people who encounter
      > > > these things for the first time, it could seem as though
      > > > they only existed in one place. In one religion, etc. But
      > > > the more I look back at history I find a lot more than what
      > > > I thought people knew. It helps me to learn more myself.
      > > >
      > > > What I mean is, with the technology available today, a
      > > > person has a better chance of looking at what teachers
      > > > said in the past, and the ways they said it. There is, as
      > > > you have pointed out, a better chance of looking at what
      > > > different schools of thought share in common today.
      > > >
      > > > The more I read, the more I realize how ignorant I was
      > > > about the intelligence of others in the past. Or what I
      > > > thought that other people and other religions believed.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for sharing those quotes.
      > > >
      > > > Etznab
      > > >
      > > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > The lies started with Twitchell, were passed on
      > > > > to Gross, and now Klemp is doing his own rewrite
      > > > > of Truth.
      > > > >
      > > > > Klemp states, on page 385, of his Autobiography:
      > > > > "In general, the major religions locate their heaven
      > > > > on the Mental Plane, the so-called Fourth World.
      > > > > These include... Hinduism." This next comment
      > > > > is listed in Klemp's EK Lexicon: "BRAHAMA- A
      > > > > creative member of the Fourth Region; accepted
      > > > > by most Hindus as the SUPREME DEITY..."
      > > > >
      > > > > Yet, ECKANKAR follows these basic [4th Mental Plane]
      > > > > Hindu beliefs and is, therefore, a minor sect of
      > > > > Hinduism as are thousands of other offshoot Hindu
      > > > > sects with self-proclaimed "Masters."
      > > > >
      > > > > Sikhism is also a sect of Hinduism. And, ECKANKAR
      > > > > is directly linked to the Sikh sect of Radhasoami via
      > > > > Julian Johnson and Kirpal Singh. Due to a conflict
      > > > > with succession Kirpal started his own sect of Ruhani
      > > > > Satsang. Twitchell then broke from Kirpal Singh over
      > > > > PT's embellishments with his Tiger's Fang manuscript
      > > > > and started his own sect (with Gail's encouragement)
      > > > > that he named ECKANKAR. Actually, Kirpal breaking
      > > > > with Radhasoami and creating Ruhani Satsang is
      > > > > how PT got the idea to start his own religious sect as
      > > > > well. It's, also, common practice in Indian tradition
      > > > > to do this when one has a following. And, Twitchell
      > > > > via his Scientology involvement saw how a sci-fi writer
      > > > > could become successful at writing religious dogma.
      > > > >
      > > > > BTW- Sikhism doesn't believe in the Caste System,
      > > > > but Hinduism does. Eckankar, on the other hand,
      > > > > has its own Caste System called Levels of Initiation.
      > > > >
      > > > > The following text is from Shankara's
      > > > > "Crest-Jewel Of Discrimination (viveka-chudamani)."
      > > > > Translated by Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher
      > > > > Isherwood. [First edition 1947, Third edition (mine) 1978]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > NOTE: Shankara was born around 686 A.D.
      > > > >
      > > > > *FYI- [(SOUL, ECK, GOD, & SUGMAD) are words
      > > > > substituted for "BRAHMAN" in order to show how
      > > > > easy it was for Twitchell to alter various religious text.]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > "THE SUPREME GOAL"
      > > > >
      > > > > "It may be objected that Vedanta Philosophy,
      > > > > like every other system of religious thought,
      > > > > is based upon a central hypothesis. Certainly,
      > > > > the supreme goal of life is to know GOD
      > > > > --if GOD exists. But can we be sure of this?
      > > > > Isn't it possible that there is no underlying
      > > > > reality in the universe? Isn't it possible that
      > > > > life is just a meaningless flux, dying and becoming,
      > > > > in perpetual change?
      > > > >
      > > > > What is so attractive about Vedanta is its
      > > > > undogmatic, experimental approach to truth.
      > > > > Shankara does not tell us that we must accept
      > > > > the existence of GOD as a dogma before we can
      > > > > enter the spiritual life. No--he invites us to
      > > > > find out for ourselves.
      > > > >
      > > > > Nothing--no teacher, no scripture--can
      > > > > do the work for us. Teachers and scriptures
      > > > > are merely encouragements to personal effort.
      > > > > But, as such, they can be very impressive.
      > > > > Imagine that this is a law-suit and that you
      > > > > are the judge.
      > > > >
      > > > > Try to listen impartially to the witnesses on
      > > > > both sides. Consider the witnesses for SUGMAD
      > > > > --the seers and saints who claim to have known
      > > > > the eternal Reality. Consider their personalities,
      > > > > their words, the circumstances of their lives.
      > > > > Ask yourself--are these men liars or hypocrites
      > > > > or insane, or are they telling the truth? Compare
      > > > > the great scriptures of the world and ask
      > > > > --do they contradict each other, or do they
      > > > > agree? Then give your verdict.
      > > > >
      > > > > But mere assent, as Shankara insists, is not
      > > > > enough. It is only a preliminary step toward
      > > > > active participation in the search. Direct personal
      > > > > experience is the only satisfactory proof of
      > > > > GOD's existence, and each of us must have it.
      > > > >
      > > > > Modern science goes a long way toward
      > > > > confirming the Vedanta world-picture. It
      > > > > admits that consciousness, in varying degrees,
      > > > > may be present everywhere. Differences between
      > > > > objects and creatures are only surface-differences,
      > > > > varying arrangements of atoms. Elements can
      > > > > be changed into other elements. Identity is only
      > > > > provisional. Science does not accept the concept
      > > > > of absolute Reality, but it certainly does not
      > > > > exclude it. Shankara knew nothing of modern
      > > > > science, but his approach is fundamentally scientific.
      > > > > It is based upon the practice of discrimination
      > > > > --a discrimination to be applied to ourselves and
      > > > > to every circumstance and object of our experience,
      > > > > at each instant of our lives. Again and again
      > > > > --thousands and thousands of times a day--we
      > > > > must ask ourselves `is this real or unreal, is this
      > > > > fact or fancy, is this nature or only appearance?'
      > > > > Thus, we probe deeper and deeper toward the truth.
      > > > >
      > > > > We all know that we exist. We are aware of
      > > > > our own consciousness. But what is the nature
      > > > > of this consciousness, this existence? Discrimination
      > > > > will soon prove to us that the ego-idea is not the
      > > > > fundamental reality. There is something beyond it.
      > > > > We can call this something `SOUL'--but SOUL is only
      > > > > another word. It does not reveal the nature of the
      > > > > thing we are looking for.
      > > > >
      > > > > Can SUGMAD be known as an existing substance
      > > > > or thing? Not in the ordinary meaning of the
      > > > > verb. To know something is to obtain objective
      > > > > knowledge of it, and such knowledge is relative,
      > > > > depending upon space, time and causation. We
      > > > > cannot know absolute consciousness in this manner,
      > > > > because absolute consciousness is knowledge itself.
      > > > > SUGMAD is the source of all other knowledge; it
      > > > > comprises the knower, the knowledge and that
      > > > > which is known. It is independent of space, time
      > > > > and cause.
      > > > >
      > > > > In this sense, the practice of discrimination
      > > > > differs from the method of scientific research.
      > > > > The scientist concentrates upon some object or
      > > > > knowledge, and pursues it beyond the range of
      > > > > physical sense-perception, with the aid of apparatus,
      > > > > chemical analysis, mathematics and so forth. His
      > > > > research extends like a journey, deeper and deeper
      > > > > into time and space. The religious philosopher
      > > > > is trying to annihilate time and space, the dimensions
      > > > > of the ego-idea, and thus uncover the Reality which
      > > > > is nearer and more instant than the ego, the body
      > > > > or the mind.
      > > > >
      > > > > He is trying to be aware of what he already
      > > > > and always is--and this awareness is not an
      > > > > aspect of consciousness itself. The illuminated
      > > > > seer does not merely know ECK; he is ECK, he
      > > > > is Existence, he is Knowledge. Absolute freedom
      > > > > is not something to be attained, absolute knowledge
      > > > > is not something to be gained, GOD is not something
      > > > > to be found. It is only Maya which has to be pierced,
      > > > > ignorance which has to be overcome. The process
      > > > > of discrimination is a negative process. The positive
      > > > > fact, our real nature, eternally exists. We are the
      > > > > ECK--and only ignorance divides us from this
      > > > > knowledge.
      > > > >
      > > > > Transcendental consciousness, or union with
      > > > > GOD, can never be investigated by the methods
      > > > > of scientific research, since this research depends
      > > > > ultimately upon sense-perception, and GOD is
      > > > > beyond the grasp of the senses. But this does not
      > > > > mean that we are doomed to doubt--or to blind
      > > > > trust in the experience of the seers--until we have
      > > > > reached the Supreme Goal for ourselves. Even a
      > > > > little effort in meditation and the spiritual life will
      > > > > reward us with insight and conviction that this is
      > > > > really the way to truth and peace--that we are not
      > > > > simply deceiving or hypnotizing ourselves--that
      > > > > Reality is available. We shall have our ups and downs,
      > > > > of course, and our moments of uncertainty, but we
      > > > > shall always return to this conviction. No spiritual gain,
      > > > > however small, is ever lost or wasted."
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > "REJECTION OF APPEARANCES"
      > > > >
      > > > > [Word substitution (ECK & REALITY) was used
      > > > > for BRAHMAN]
      > > > >
      > > > > "CEASE therefore to dwell upon sense-objects:
      > > > > that is the root of all evil. He who has won
      > > > > liberation in this life is liberated also when he
      > > > > gives up the body. The Yajur-Veda declares that
      > > > > a man is subject to fear as long as he sees the
      > > > > least difference between himself and the ECK.
      > > > >
      > > > > Whenever a man--even if he has discrimination
      > > > > --sees the least distinction between himself and
      > > > > the infinite REALITY, fear will arise in him. Such
      > > > > difference is seen only because of ignorance.
      > > > >
      > > > > Reason, sacred tradition, and hundreds of scriptural
      > > > > texts declare that the objective universe has no real
      > > > > existence. He who identifies himself with it encounters
      > > > > hosts upon hosts of sorrows.
      > > > >
      > > > > He who is devoted to contemplation of the Reality
      > > > > becomes liberated and attains the eternal glory of
      > > > > the Atman. But he whose mind dwells upon the unreal,
      > > > > will lose himself."
      > > > >
      > > > > [end of quotes]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, as you can see there are many similarities
      > > > > with the concepts of this so-called 4th plane religion
      > > > > and ECKANKAR.
      > > > >
      > > > > All spiritual seekers must realize we are our own heroes
      > > > > and masters here and now, and without needing the
      > > > > codependency of gurus and make-believe Mahantas.
      > > > > This is what reaching the Supreme Goal is all about...
      > > > > Self-Mastery & Spiritual Freedom (In this lifetime),
      > > > > and returning to Soul's True Home!
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Mish, Christel, and All, When looking at Rev. Harold Klemp s former Church Z ion Evangelical Lutheran --Missouri Synod I saw that there were 2 other
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 11, 2008
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        Hi Mish, Christel, and All,
        When looking at Rev. Harold Klemp's former
        Church 'Z'ion Evangelical Lutheran --Missouri
        Synod I saw that there were 2 other Klemp's
        listed as Past members/founders and a third
        is a Present-day member!

        Yes, it could be that this ZION connection is
        one subconscious source for Klemp choosing
        'Z' for his spiritual name. Although, when Klemp
        was almost finished writing "The Wind of Change"
        (circa Spring 1980) he was writing a Chapter on
        his family's farm cat named Zsa Zsa. Klemp wrote
        her name and 'Z' over 40 times in this chapter!

        This Chapter on Zsa Zsa was written around the
        time Darwin Gross asked Klemp to come up with
        his "spiritual name." Klemp, at first, just came up
        with 'Z.' Darwin (the Black Magician) suggested
        adding the "WAH" to make it "WAH-Z." [Soul Travelers
        of the Far Country, Ch. 7]

        Klemp's Spiritual Name was given to him by a
        [Past/Present/Future?] Black Magician and Wah-Z
        is still used today as a "Charged Word" for chanting
        during ECK Spiritual Exercises. However, other contributions
        etc. by Gross are forbidden for ECKists to see, read,
        or speak of. Darwin's name is forbidden to use
        and ECKists who speak his name at ECK functions
        are placed on a "watch list" by their H.I. Leaders,
        RESA and the ESC.

        Apparently Klemp still fears Darwin's influence over
        his chelas. One wonders WHY HK (the Mahanta) can't
        "protect" them from DG's spiritual influence?! Maybe
        the "WAH" needs to be dropped from Klemp's spiritual
        name since Darwin contributed it! Klemp needs to do
        more editing and rewrites to "Change" more ECK history!

        BTW-Maybe the influence of Luther & 'Z'wingli, also,
        Subconsciously influenced HK to choose 'Z' since
        he sees himself as a "reformer" of sorts. Klemp
        was definitely a crazed bridge jumping 'Z'ealot! : )

        Prometheus

        mish wrote:
        Here's the link to the church Klemp grew up in:

        http://www.zion-fremont.com/History.html

        The Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church--
        Missouri Synod, located in Freemont WI.
        >
        Ever wonder how Klemp got the "Z" in his
        spiritual name? LOL!
        >
        Anyway, click on the links to learn about this
        branch of the Lutheran Church-very interesting! : )
        >
        >
        mish wrote:
        > >
        > >
        You're right, Christel, that chelas are taught
        that eckankar is the original religion and all
        other religions have copied it. Funny thing
        is how "twisted" HK has twisted eckankar into
        a somewhat spinoff from his early religion--
        Missouri Lutheran Synod. I was looking at the
        church he grew up in website, their rules and
        such, and gee, I could see how HK used some
        of that in his "new" eckankar. That's not being
        original for sure, but of course all religions
        including the Missouri Lutheran Synod, Eckankar,
        etc. all believe they have the inside track on
        truth. So silly really! LOL! I believe these man-
        made religions are only distractions with a lot
        of control and manipulation going on, interfering
        with people's lives. It's an inside track to delusion
        and confusion as chelas disappear into more and
        more of the cult trappings! : )
        > >
        Mish
        > >
        Christel wrote:
        > > >
        'Eckankar is no copy' - when i said this.
        The answer was the information about the Akasha
        Chronic: there all are going to and get their text....
        and: it isn't god to read other books as Eckankars,
        so i was told! so surrender Eckists couldn't know
        about their origins! Have you forgotten this important
        sujets? lol, Christel
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