Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Question

Expand Messages
  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Non ekster and All! I think you make a good point about being your own god man. I prefer the little m master to big M Master in reference to myself. I
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 9 7:35 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi, Non ekster and All!

      I think you make a good point about being your own god man.
      I prefer the little "m" master to big "M" Master in reference to myself.
      I believe in the spark of God within that guides me, but the responsibility
      of my actions and beliefs fall on me--my being responsible for whatever
      I do or say. But I suppose that stressing that one is his own Master rather
      than depending/needing a Godman helps those to drop that dependency
      as in cults like eckankar.

      I also think your example of running the open expanse without worrying
      about making mistakes is very good advice--because try as hard as we
      might, we are not perfect. To seek perfection is probably not healthy in
      the long run for anyone! So why worry about it? : ) Perhaps, people prefer
      following leaders (spiritual and otherwise), because they fear that open
      run! But in order to unleash that freedom after being indoctrinated in
      a cult and man-made religious teachings, one would need to see himself
      as his own master--using the little "m" might be the better way to show
      this, though? Certainly, enjoying one's life can't be achieved if one is
      worrying about becoming/being perfect.

      Anyway, I'm enjoying reading "The Kite Runner,"--just a few pages into
      it, and I must say it looks like excellent reading. Amir, the young boy, is
      confronting his father about what his mullah is teaching him in school. It
      seems that Amir's father is a sinner of sorts, so Amir is confused. His father
      helps to explain to his son that "first . . . you'll never learn anything of value
      from those bearded idiots." His father goes on to explain, "no matter what the
      mullah teaches, there is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other
      sin is a variation of theft." I must admit that I never thought of theft as
      encompassing all sins, but this is a good point. The theft of one's mastership
      by a mullah, a mahanta, or any other supposedly religious guru is a sin!
      So, claiming self-mastery is important in getting out of the bonds of a cult.
      Harold Klemp who professes something he is not, the greatest consciousness
      known to mankind, is a big fat sinner! And just as much an idiot as those
      bearded idiot mullahs! : )

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
      <eckchains@...> wrote:
      >
      > I see a lot of posts referring to being your own Master as a way to
      > escape the Cult Dogma of ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
      > sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM is supposed to be
      > basically infallible. It sounds sometimes like being your own MASTER
      > also means that you are infallible, without needing a godman, that you
      > are your own god. That is also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
      > themselves.
      >
      > Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your own person living as
      > best you can and learning every day, yet realizing that we all make
      > mistakes and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate answer.
      >
      > Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are not a slave or a dog
      > on a collar and leash, and just run for the open expanse, even if that
      > means that we don't know what we are doing half the time.
      >
      > I'd rather have that than some false security.
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Non-ekster, Mish and All, IMO-The big M or little m use of Master/ master is just semantics. No one person or thing, except, ALL THAT IS (or
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 9 11:45 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Non-ekster, Mish and All,
        IMO-The big "M" or little "m" use of "Master/
        master" is just semantics. No one person or
        thing, except, ALL THAT IS (or Whatever) is
        Infallible (perfect)! I don't have the stress
        of trying to be "perfect" and free of "sin"
        because I don't buy into religious dogma.

        This is my "Truth" regardless of what ECKists,
        or anyone else, thinks or says about their
        religion and religious leader. Maybe the big
        "M" in "Master" has more to do with a group's
        impressions/illusions of their Master/Leader
        whereas the little "m" in "master" is one's Self
        (the individual). But there's, also, the little "s"
        of self (ego) and the big "S" of Self (Soul).
        I can see myself as both master/Master
        (self/Soul) of my own private domain/illusion.
        But, isn't this too part of the greater Whole?
        I just have to choose what it is I want to create
        for myself versus what it is I want to see (Truth).
        Cause and effect when dealing with private and
        universal illusion can be one and the same.

        This is where private and world illusion (Maya)
        comes into play everyday and with everyone. I
        can attempt to see and operate from a Soul level,
        but the imperfections of self are always there as
        a testing vehicle for life's lessons to be demonstrated
        and assimilated for spiritual growth. This is living
        a Truer Reality.

        A monk (or recluse like Klemp) has the luxury to
        relax, write, and contemplate more than a householder
        (a regular working man/woman who operate in
        the Field of Action). He's a fake, a pseudo-master
        and is even more delusional than those who follow
        him. HK avoids the outer and escapes to a facade
        of himself because it's easier to "talk the talk" and
        adopt and live the lie Twitchell created ($). This lie
        is reenforced by chela's impressions, desires and
        beliefs. The householder lives the ups and downs
        of all aspects of life and is challenged by "walking
        the walk." The householder, also, has their relationship
        with the "inner" via dreams and contemplation as well.
        It's much easier for Klemp to talk "as if" he is
        enlightened with "Higher Consciousness" without
        demonstrating it. HK can't even demonstrate it
        through the action of writing on the same level,
        let alone better, as Non-ECKists of the past like
        Rumi or Mark Twain! Look at how Klemp deals
        with old white-haired women in restrooms at
        the Prairie Eden shopping mall. Restrooms Are Unisex!

        This is where the religious dogma of scripture
        comes into play. Let's face it, it's easy for Klemp
        to "talk the talk" when ECKists have bought
        into the illusion of the dogma by placing him
        and his "Mahanta Consciousness" upon a pedestal,
        like a Pope! At the same time ECKists have reduced
        their own spiritual value to that of an initiation
        number on a membership card!

        Really, though, when one sees through the illusion
        surrounding a "Master" like Klemp it becomes a lot
        less stressful to live the "spiritual life." Even those
        who are more authentic examples of "perfection" are
        merely teachers for us. And, sometimes the lesson
        is, for us, Not to be like them... be like You!

        Isn't it interesting that most ECKists were non-
        conformists before joining ECKANKAR and then
        had to conform (surrender) to the EK dogma in
        order to "fit-in" and advance with initiations & titles.
        What happened to their uniqueness and individuality
        as rebels? Ah! Since the EK teachings are seen as
        weird (embarrassing too), or controversial and are
        unorthodox this, thus, fulfills the non-conformist
        sense of exclusion (seclusion too) with society.

        ECKANKAR has a different set of rules and this,
        for many, gives the illusion of special uniqueness
        and greater advances in spiritual freedom. But, it's
        just another KAL trap. There cannot be spiritual
        freedom associated with; the desires and vanity
        of "special initiations," of having requirements
        of an Annual Outer EK Membership for Soul,
        and of being Codependent upon another person
        (HK/Mahanta) for our own big and small decisions
        in life. Where is Self-Mastery and Responsibility?
        ECKists have, unknowingly, lost their original
        non-conformist values as they've bought into
        more and more illusion disguised as an "Easy
        and Most Direct Way" to God-Consciousness.

        Prometheus












        Non ekster wrote:

        I see a lot of posts referring to being your own
        Master as a way to escape the Cult Dogma of
        ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
        sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM
        is supposed to be basically infallible. It sounds
        sometimes like being your own MASTER also
        means that you are infallible, without needing
        a godman, that you are your own god. That is
        also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
        themselves.

        Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your
        own person living as best you can and learning
        every day, yet realizing that we all make mistakes
        and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate
        answer.

        Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are
        not a slave or a dog on a collar and leash, and
        just run for the open expanse, even if that
        means that we don't know what we are doing
        half the time.

        I'd rather have that than some false security.


        mish wrote:

        Hi, Non ekster and All!

        I think you make a good point about being your
        own god man. I prefer the little "m" master to big
        "M" Master in reference to myself. I believe in the
        spark of God within that guides me, but the responsibility
        of my actions and beliefs fall on me--my being
        responsible for whatever I do or say. But I suppose
        that stressing that one is his own Master rather
        than depending/needing a Godman helps those
        to drop that dependency as in cults like eckankar.

        I also think your example of running the open
        expanse without worrying about making mistakes
        is very good advice--because try as hard as we
        might, we are not perfect. To seek perfection
        is probably not healthy in the long run for anyone!
        So why worry about it? : ) Perhaps, people prefer
        following leaders (spiritual and otherwise), because
        they fear that open run! But in order to unleash
        that freedom after being indoctrinated in a cult
        and man-made religious teachings, one would
        need to see himself as his own master--using
        the little "m" might be the better way to show
        this, though? Certainly, enjoying one's life can't
        be achieved if one is worrying about becoming/
        being perfect.

        Anyway, I'm enjoying reading "The Kite Runner,"
        --just a few pages into it, and I must say it looks
        like excellent reading. Amir, the young boy, is
        confronting his father about what his mullah is
        teaching him in school. It seems that Amir's father
        is a sinner of sorts, so Amir is confused. His father
        helps to explain to his son that "first . . . you'll
        never learn anything of value from those bearded
        idiots." His father goes on to explain, "no matter
        what the mullah teaches, there is only one sin,
        only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a
        variation of theft." I must admit that I never thought
        of theft as encompassing all sins, but this is a
        good point. The theft of one's mastership by a mullah,
        a mahanta, or any other supposedly religious guru
        is a sin! So, claiming self-mastery is important
        in getting out of the bonds of a cult. Harold Klemp
        who professes something he is not, the greatest
        consciousness known to mankind, is a big fat
        sinner! And just as much an idiot as those
        bearded idiot mullahs! : )

        Mish
      • Non ekster
        Yes, and I guess what I am saying is that we aren t a god. I think that would be just more delusion. We are alive, and we is what we is, human. sometimes I
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 12 2:32 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, and I guess what I am saying is that we aren't a god. I think
          that would be just more delusion. We are alive, and we is what we is,
          human. "sometimes I just sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sit"

          Nonekster

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Non ekster and All!
          >
          > I think you make a good point about being your own god man.
          > I prefer the little "m" master to big "M" Master in reference to myself.
          > I believe in the spark of God within that guides me, but the
          responsibility
          > of my actions and beliefs fall on me--my being responsible for whatever
          > I do or say. But I suppose that stressing that one is his own Master
          rather
          > than depending/needing a Godman helps those to drop that dependency
          > as in cults like eckankar.
          >
          > I also think your example of running the open expanse without worrying
          > about making mistakes is very good advice--because try as hard as we
          > might, we are not perfect. To seek perfection is probably not healthy in
          > the long run for anyone! So why worry about it? : ) Perhaps, people
          prefer
          > following leaders (spiritual and otherwise), because they fear that open
          > run! But in order to unleash that freedom after being indoctrinated in
          > a cult and man-made religious teachings, one would need to see himself
          > as his own master--using the little "m" might be the better way to show
          > this, though? Certainly, enjoying one's life can't be achieved if
          one is
          > worrying about becoming/being perfect.
          >
          > Anyway, I'm enjoying reading "The Kite Runner,"--just a few pages into
          > it, and I must say it looks like excellent reading. Amir, the young
          boy, is
          > confronting his father about what his mullah is teaching him in
          school. It
          > seems that Amir's father is a sinner of sorts, so Amir is confused.
          His father
          > helps to explain to his son that "first . . . you'll never learn
          anything of value
          > from those bearded idiots." His father goes on to explain, "no
          matter what the
          > mullah teaches, there is only one sin, only one. And that is theft.
          Every other
          > sin is a variation of theft." I must admit that I never thought of
          theft as
          > encompassing all sins, but this is a good point. The theft of one's
          mastership
          > by a mullah, a mahanta, or any other supposedly religious guru is a sin!
          > So, claiming self-mastery is important in getting out of the bonds
          of a cult.
          > Harold Klemp who professes something he is not, the greatest
          consciousness
          > known to mankind, is a big fat sinner! And just as much an idiot as
          those
          > bearded idiot mullahs! : )
          >
          > Mish
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
          > <eckchains@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I see a lot of posts referring to being your own Master as a way to
          > > escape the Cult Dogma of ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
          > > sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM is supposed to be
          > > basically infallible. It sounds sometimes like being your own MASTER
          > > also means that you are infallible, without needing a godman, that you
          > > are your own god. That is also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
          > > themselves.
          > >
          > > Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your own person living as
          > > best you can and learning every day, yet realizing that we all make
          > > mistakes and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate answer.
          > >
          > > Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are not a slave or a dog
          > > on a collar and leash, and just run for the open expanse, even if that
          > > means that we don't know what we are doing half the time.
          > >
          > > I'd rather have that than some false security.
          > >
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.