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  • Non ekster
    I see a lot of posts referring to being your own Master as a way to escape the Cult Dogma of ECKANKAR s godman, but I must admit that sometimes I wonder what
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 9, 2008
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      I see a lot of posts referring to being your own Master as a way to
      escape the Cult Dogma of ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
      sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM is supposed to be
      basically infallible. It sounds sometimes like being your own MASTER
      also means that you are infallible, without needing a godman, that you
      are your own god. That is also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
      themselves.

      Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your own person living as
      best you can and learning every day, yet realizing that we all make
      mistakes and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate answer.

      Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are not a slave or a dog
      on a collar and leash, and just run for the open expanse, even if that
      means that we don't know what we are doing half the time.

      I'd rather have that than some false security.
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Non ekster and All! I think you make a good point about being your own god man. I prefer the little m master to big M Master in reference to myself. I
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 9, 2008
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        Hi, Non ekster and All!

        I think you make a good point about being your own god man.
        I prefer the little "m" master to big "M" Master in reference to myself.
        I believe in the spark of God within that guides me, but the responsibility
        of my actions and beliefs fall on me--my being responsible for whatever
        I do or say. But I suppose that stressing that one is his own Master rather
        than depending/needing a Godman helps those to drop that dependency
        as in cults like eckankar.

        I also think your example of running the open expanse without worrying
        about making mistakes is very good advice--because try as hard as we
        might, we are not perfect. To seek perfection is probably not healthy in
        the long run for anyone! So why worry about it? : ) Perhaps, people prefer
        following leaders (spiritual and otherwise), because they fear that open
        run! But in order to unleash that freedom after being indoctrinated in
        a cult and man-made religious teachings, one would need to see himself
        as his own master--using the little "m" might be the better way to show
        this, though? Certainly, enjoying one's life can't be achieved if one is
        worrying about becoming/being perfect.

        Anyway, I'm enjoying reading "The Kite Runner,"--just a few pages into
        it, and I must say it looks like excellent reading. Amir, the young boy, is
        confronting his father about what his mullah is teaching him in school. It
        seems that Amir's father is a sinner of sorts, so Amir is confused. His father
        helps to explain to his son that "first . . . you'll never learn anything of value
        from those bearded idiots." His father goes on to explain, "no matter what the
        mullah teaches, there is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other
        sin is a variation of theft." I must admit that I never thought of theft as
        encompassing all sins, but this is a good point. The theft of one's mastership
        by a mullah, a mahanta, or any other supposedly religious guru is a sin!
        So, claiming self-mastery is important in getting out of the bonds of a cult.
        Harold Klemp who professes something he is not, the greatest consciousness
        known to mankind, is a big fat sinner! And just as much an idiot as those
        bearded idiot mullahs! : )

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
        <eckchains@...> wrote:
        >
        > I see a lot of posts referring to being your own Master as a way to
        > escape the Cult Dogma of ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
        > sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM is supposed to be
        > basically infallible. It sounds sometimes like being your own MASTER
        > also means that you are infallible, without needing a godman, that you
        > are your own god. That is also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
        > themselves.
        >
        > Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your own person living as
        > best you can and learning every day, yet realizing that we all make
        > mistakes and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate answer.
        >
        > Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are not a slave or a dog
        > on a collar and leash, and just run for the open expanse, even if that
        > means that we don't know what we are doing half the time.
        >
        > I'd rather have that than some false security.
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Non-ekster, Mish and All, IMO-The big M or little m use of Master/ master is just semantics. No one person or thing, except, ALL THAT IS (or
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 9, 2008
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          Hello Non-ekster, Mish and All,
          IMO-The big "M" or little "m" use of "Master/
          master" is just semantics. No one person or
          thing, except, ALL THAT IS (or Whatever) is
          Infallible (perfect)! I don't have the stress
          of trying to be "perfect" and free of "sin"
          because I don't buy into religious dogma.

          This is my "Truth" regardless of what ECKists,
          or anyone else, thinks or says about their
          religion and religious leader. Maybe the big
          "M" in "Master" has more to do with a group's
          impressions/illusions of their Master/Leader
          whereas the little "m" in "master" is one's Self
          (the individual). But there's, also, the little "s"
          of self (ego) and the big "S" of Self (Soul).
          I can see myself as both master/Master
          (self/Soul) of my own private domain/illusion.
          But, isn't this too part of the greater Whole?
          I just have to choose what it is I want to create
          for myself versus what it is I want to see (Truth).
          Cause and effect when dealing with private and
          universal illusion can be one and the same.

          This is where private and world illusion (Maya)
          comes into play everyday and with everyone. I
          can attempt to see and operate from a Soul level,
          but the imperfections of self are always there as
          a testing vehicle for life's lessons to be demonstrated
          and assimilated for spiritual growth. This is living
          a Truer Reality.

          A monk (or recluse like Klemp) has the luxury to
          relax, write, and contemplate more than a householder
          (a regular working man/woman who operate in
          the Field of Action). He's a fake, a pseudo-master
          and is even more delusional than those who follow
          him. HK avoids the outer and escapes to a facade
          of himself because it's easier to "talk the talk" and
          adopt and live the lie Twitchell created ($). This lie
          is reenforced by chela's impressions, desires and
          beliefs. The householder lives the ups and downs
          of all aspects of life and is challenged by "walking
          the walk." The householder, also, has their relationship
          with the "inner" via dreams and contemplation as well.
          It's much easier for Klemp to talk "as if" he is
          enlightened with "Higher Consciousness" without
          demonstrating it. HK can't even demonstrate it
          through the action of writing on the same level,
          let alone better, as Non-ECKists of the past like
          Rumi or Mark Twain! Look at how Klemp deals
          with old white-haired women in restrooms at
          the Prairie Eden shopping mall. Restrooms Are Unisex!

          This is where the religious dogma of scripture
          comes into play. Let's face it, it's easy for Klemp
          to "talk the talk" when ECKists have bought
          into the illusion of the dogma by placing him
          and his "Mahanta Consciousness" upon a pedestal,
          like a Pope! At the same time ECKists have reduced
          their own spiritual value to that of an initiation
          number on a membership card!

          Really, though, when one sees through the illusion
          surrounding a "Master" like Klemp it becomes a lot
          less stressful to live the "spiritual life." Even those
          who are more authentic examples of "perfection" are
          merely teachers for us. And, sometimes the lesson
          is, for us, Not to be like them... be like You!

          Isn't it interesting that most ECKists were non-
          conformists before joining ECKANKAR and then
          had to conform (surrender) to the EK dogma in
          order to "fit-in" and advance with initiations & titles.
          What happened to their uniqueness and individuality
          as rebels? Ah! Since the EK teachings are seen as
          weird (embarrassing too), or controversial and are
          unorthodox this, thus, fulfills the non-conformist
          sense of exclusion (seclusion too) with society.

          ECKANKAR has a different set of rules and this,
          for many, gives the illusion of special uniqueness
          and greater advances in spiritual freedom. But, it's
          just another KAL trap. There cannot be spiritual
          freedom associated with; the desires and vanity
          of "special initiations," of having requirements
          of an Annual Outer EK Membership for Soul,
          and of being Codependent upon another person
          (HK/Mahanta) for our own big and small decisions
          in life. Where is Self-Mastery and Responsibility?
          ECKists have, unknowingly, lost their original
          non-conformist values as they've bought into
          more and more illusion disguised as an "Easy
          and Most Direct Way" to God-Consciousness.

          Prometheus












          Non ekster wrote:

          I see a lot of posts referring to being your own
          Master as a way to escape the Cult Dogma of
          ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
          sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM
          is supposed to be basically infallible. It sounds
          sometimes like being your own MASTER also
          means that you are infallible, without needing
          a godman, that you are your own god. That is
          also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
          themselves.

          Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your
          own person living as best you can and learning
          every day, yet realizing that we all make mistakes
          and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate
          answer.

          Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are
          not a slave or a dog on a collar and leash, and
          just run for the open expanse, even if that
          means that we don't know what we are doing
          half the time.

          I'd rather have that than some false security.


          mish wrote:

          Hi, Non ekster and All!

          I think you make a good point about being your
          own god man. I prefer the little "m" master to big
          "M" Master in reference to myself. I believe in the
          spark of God within that guides me, but the responsibility
          of my actions and beliefs fall on me--my being
          responsible for whatever I do or say. But I suppose
          that stressing that one is his own Master rather
          than depending/needing a Godman helps those
          to drop that dependency as in cults like eckankar.

          I also think your example of running the open
          expanse without worrying about making mistakes
          is very good advice--because try as hard as we
          might, we are not perfect. To seek perfection
          is probably not healthy in the long run for anyone!
          So why worry about it? : ) Perhaps, people prefer
          following leaders (spiritual and otherwise), because
          they fear that open run! But in order to unleash
          that freedom after being indoctrinated in a cult
          and man-made religious teachings, one would
          need to see himself as his own master--using
          the little "m" might be the better way to show
          this, though? Certainly, enjoying one's life can't
          be achieved if one is worrying about becoming/
          being perfect.

          Anyway, I'm enjoying reading "The Kite Runner,"
          --just a few pages into it, and I must say it looks
          like excellent reading. Amir, the young boy, is
          confronting his father about what his mullah is
          teaching him in school. It seems that Amir's father
          is a sinner of sorts, so Amir is confused. His father
          helps to explain to his son that "first . . . you'll
          never learn anything of value from those bearded
          idiots." His father goes on to explain, "no matter
          what the mullah teaches, there is only one sin,
          only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a
          variation of theft." I must admit that I never thought
          of theft as encompassing all sins, but this is a
          good point. The theft of one's mastership by a mullah,
          a mahanta, or any other supposedly religious guru
          is a sin! So, claiming self-mastery is important
          in getting out of the bonds of a cult. Harold Klemp
          who professes something he is not, the greatest
          consciousness known to mankind, is a big fat
          sinner! And just as much an idiot as those
          bearded idiot mullahs! : )

          Mish
        • Non ekster
          Yes, and I guess what I am saying is that we aren t a god. I think that would be just more delusion. We are alive, and we is what we is, human. sometimes I
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 12, 2008
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            Yes, and I guess what I am saying is that we aren't a god. I think
            that would be just more delusion. We are alive, and we is what we is,
            human. "sometimes I just sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sit"

            Nonekster

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Non ekster and All!
            >
            > I think you make a good point about being your own god man.
            > I prefer the little "m" master to big "M" Master in reference to myself.
            > I believe in the spark of God within that guides me, but the
            responsibility
            > of my actions and beliefs fall on me--my being responsible for whatever
            > I do or say. But I suppose that stressing that one is his own Master
            rather
            > than depending/needing a Godman helps those to drop that dependency
            > as in cults like eckankar.
            >
            > I also think your example of running the open expanse without worrying
            > about making mistakes is very good advice--because try as hard as we
            > might, we are not perfect. To seek perfection is probably not healthy in
            > the long run for anyone! So why worry about it? : ) Perhaps, people
            prefer
            > following leaders (spiritual and otherwise), because they fear that open
            > run! But in order to unleash that freedom after being indoctrinated in
            > a cult and man-made religious teachings, one would need to see himself
            > as his own master--using the little "m" might be the better way to show
            > this, though? Certainly, enjoying one's life can't be achieved if
            one is
            > worrying about becoming/being perfect.
            >
            > Anyway, I'm enjoying reading "The Kite Runner,"--just a few pages into
            > it, and I must say it looks like excellent reading. Amir, the young
            boy, is
            > confronting his father about what his mullah is teaching him in
            school. It
            > seems that Amir's father is a sinner of sorts, so Amir is confused.
            His father
            > helps to explain to his son that "first . . . you'll never learn
            anything of value
            > from those bearded idiots." His father goes on to explain, "no
            matter what the
            > mullah teaches, there is only one sin, only one. And that is theft.
            Every other
            > sin is a variation of theft." I must admit that I never thought of
            theft as
            > encompassing all sins, but this is a good point. The theft of one's
            mastership
            > by a mullah, a mahanta, or any other supposedly religious guru is a sin!
            > So, claiming self-mastery is important in getting out of the bonds
            of a cult.
            > Harold Klemp who professes something he is not, the greatest
            consciousness
            > known to mankind, is a big fat sinner! And just as much an idiot as
            those
            > bearded idiot mullahs! : )
            >
            > Mish
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
            > <eckchains@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I see a lot of posts referring to being your own Master as a way to
            > > escape the Cult Dogma of ECKANKAR's godman, but I must admit that
            > > sometimes I wonder what this means. The LEM is supposed to be
            > > basically infallible. It sounds sometimes like being your own MASTER
            > > also means that you are infallible, without needing a godman, that you
            > > are your own god. That is also a lot of pressure for someone to put on
            > > themselves.
            > >
            > > Wouldn't it be better to say that you are your own person living as
            > > best you can and learning every day, yet realizing that we all make
            > > mistakes and are not perfect. Maybe there is no ultimate answer.
            > >
            > > Maybe it is enough to just realize that you are not a slave or a dog
            > > on a collar and leash, and just run for the open expanse, even if that
            > > means that we don't know what we are doing half the time.
            > >
            > > I'd rather have that than some false security.
            > >
            >
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