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Is Sri Harold a Right Winger? : )

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, All! The following is part of a discussion on HuChat, posted by Mark Alexander, Is Sri Harold a Right Winger? Mark does a lot of second guessing in
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 24, 2008
      Hi, All!

      The following is part of a discussion on HuChat, posted
      by Mark Alexander, "Is Sri Harold a Right Winger?" Mark
      does a lot of second guessing in interpreting HK's political
      positions and he also seems to think he knows why people
      leave eckankar--LOL! Gotta love the idiot! Anyway, you
      might find Mark's second guessing quite a trip into the
      delusional mind of an h.i. eckist:

      "Is Sri Harold a Right Winger?

      In a word, no.

      Of course not.

      To say Harold is a right winger for his statements about the spiritual
      lie of socialism is as silly as saying he's a left winger for his
      statements supporting a women's right to choose an abortion.

      Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths, on the Spiritual
      Laws of ECK. When he sees many ECKists propagating thought-forms that
      violate spiritual law, he will address them in his talks to push those
      buttons and offer those chelas the opportunity to examine those
      thought-forms and choose between them and the Mahanta.

      People have left Eckankar because of statements Harold makes simply
      because:

      1) they project meanings into his statements that he would not agree
      with ("I bet you think this song is about you")

      2) they get buttons pushed that put them in the position of choosing
      between the truth offered by the Mahanta, and holding onto their
      emotionally charged thought-forms that violate spiritual law that the
      Mahanta is attempting to bring to their awareness.

      So the Mahanta cannot properly be put on any political spectrum. Each
      position he takes is not one based on political ideology but on
      Spiritual Law.

      So when he says in Our Spiritual Wakeup Calls (100) "Traps come with
      all kinds of trappings, and one of the biggest traps is socialism.
      Hearing this will make some people furious. But I say this just for
      love.", Sri Harold is not saying he is supporting the Republicans (who
      propagate socialism as much if not more than Democrats), nor is he
      taking a political position on who to vote for.

      He is simply pointing to an understanding that arises naturally out of
      a recognition of Spiritual Law.

      When Sri Harold says in How the Inner Master Works (135-136) "This is
      not to say that we don't work with compassion and try to help people
      in need. But socialist programs that are legislated from the top, at
      the expense of the individual's freedom, are responsible for the
      spiritual decline of any great country.", Sri Harold is not pushing a
      right-wing agenda that needs to be balanced by an opposing point of view.

      He is simply doing his job as the Mahanta by pointing to the razor's
      edge that is the path to spiritual freedom.

      When Sri Harold says the following in What Is Spiritual Freedom?
      (169-170), he is doing nothing more than trying to offer each of us an
      opportunity to take a step out of our minds and let go of mental
      attachments to ideas that inhibit Spiritual Freedom:

      "In the United States the government has spent an enormous amount on
      social reform and aid, even during this last administration. Social
      welfare has nearly gotten out of hand; it'll get a lot worse. As this
      happens, taxes increase. It's harder for businesses to hire employees.
      Then we find the unemployment rate rises, fewer people can pay taxes,
      and more people live in poverty. Once this cycle begins, you have
      people voting in officials who promise them something for nothing,
      entitlements taken from someone else. Once that starts, it's a long
      slide to the bottom. You kill yourself by taking self-responsibility
      away from people. It's against spiritual law."

      Sri Harold here is not speaking as Harold the man. He is speaking as
      The Living Word and the Spiritual Leader of Eckankar.

      For that reason, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master puts every chela
      on notice that they must continually choose between their own minds
      and the Mahanta, between the path that leads to Spiritual Freedom and
      political ideas of "fairness" that violate spiritual law.

      Sri Harold in his talks made it clear that he would at times enjoy
      listening to Rush Limbaugh.

      Did this mean he supported every position Rush promoted? No. Of course
      not.

      Did it mean Sri Harold was a "right winger"? No. Of course not.

      Did it mean that Rush gave voice at times to ideas of
      self-responsibility, accountability, and believing in oneself that was
      in line with the spiritual laws regarding pursuing the razor's edge?

      Yes.

      In The Living Word, Book 3, in the chapter on The Spiritual Lie of
      Socialism, Sri Harold tells the true story of Thanksgiving. Rush tells
      this story every year on the day before Thanksgiving.

      Do these things I've written bother you? Do they push your buttons? If
      so, perhaps you are faced with a choice, one that you don't have to
      make today. There is not rush to make that choice.

      But it is ultimately a choice between the Living Word, the Mahanta,
      and your own mind.

      Hey. Maybe I'm completely misreading Sri Harold….but I don't think so.

      HU and love

      Mark Alexander" (end of Mark's post)

      I especially like Mark's final summation--"it is ultmately a choice
      between the Living Word, the Mahanta, and your own mind."
      So, Mark is encouraging eckists to give up their own minds
      and conform to the idiocy of HK! What better way to show
      how crazy/delusional one can become after being drenched
      in the brainwashing of eckankar for many years. Mark is really
      gone--he seems to have given up his mind a long, long time
      ago! Too bad, so sad! : )

      It is funny how HK (Big Harry) attacks socialism, but the fascist
      views of "Rush" seem to be more heartfelt for Klemp. I can see
      why since socialism promotes an even playing field for individuals
      (soul=soul) and a higher group consciousness. Whereby Rush's
      fascist opinions promote a hierarchical mentality with a leader
      (mahanta) whose words and actions are beyond reproach, or
      confusing and unspecific and need to be second guessed.

      Mish
    • prometheus_973
      Mark A. (MA) channels, quotes, and second guesses Klemp and writes: Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths, on the Spiritual Laws of ECK. When
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 24, 2008
        Mark A. (MA) channels, quotes, and second guesses
        Klemp and writes:

        "Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths,
        on the Spiritual Laws of ECK. When he sees many
        ECKists propagating thought-forms that violate
        spiritual law, he will address them in his talks to
        push those buttons and offer those chelas the
        opportunity to examine those thought-forms and
        choose between them and the Mahanta."

        ***
        ME: However, Mark conveniently overlooks the fact
        that Klemp violated the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference
        and walked into a woman's restroom (illegally) and
        invaded the private and secure space of a "white-haired"
        woman. Then Klemp bragged that he "changed" her
        consciousness... without her permission, and states
        "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX!"

        Is the comment that "Restrooms Are Unisex" a political
        or social statement?! Is Klemp trying to instill political
        & social change [Restroom (potty) Law]?

        Why is HK directing EK chelas to the even Lower
        chakras focused upon in restrooms?! In 25 years
        of Klemp at the helm of the Eckankar ship the 6th
        Spiritual Eye Chakra has now been replaced by the
        chakra where sex and waste elimination originates!
        Do HK's "health practitioners" use lower chakra
        manipulations too?

        And, Klemp was Not Sorry, at all, that he frightened
        this woman... instead he makes an arrogant statement
        to justify his nutty, illegal, and perverted view and
        behaviour of the whole incident. HK even makes fun
        of the woman and disrespects her with his "white-haired
        woman" comments.

        Joan and Sharon Kunin's 12/2007 Mystic World article
        tries to down-play it all and makes HK seem apologetic
        to the "white-haired" woman while mentioning Joan's
        involvement to distracting from and avoiding the issue
        of HK's violation of restroom security. This was a blatant
        attempt at damage control, and without HK's awareness
        of their intent. Now! Did this restroom incident represent
        higher consciousness and/or love on Klemp's part? NO!
        It (and HK's remark about Joan talking too much) were
        both demeaning and inexcusable actions that only an
        insensitive narcissist would find appropriate.

        BTW- Isn't it vain for Joan, an ECK 9th Initiate, to color
        her hair? She should be "white-haired" too! Little Harry
        Klemp once tried contact lens and then went back to
        wearing glasses. Isn't it vain for ECKists, especially H.I.s,
        to wear contact lens when eye glasses would work just
        as well?
        ***

        ME: Mark makes more excuses for HK's delusions
        and lack of empathy by doing more Second Guessing
        while making excuses to justify HK's (the Mahanta)
        unloving, insensitive, right-wing, and reactionary
        comments.

        MA: "So when he (HK) says in Our Spiritual Wakeup Calls
        (100):

        'Traps come with all kinds of trappings, and one of the
        biggest traps is socialism. Hearing this will make some
        people furious. But I say this just for love.'


        ME: One can say and do anything out of "love" but that
        doesn't justify or excuse HK's unloving and negative
        words, thoughts, and actions. Don't people kill in for the
        "love" of their God, Country, or Freedoms. This "love"
        can become corrupted when "tweaked" for personal
        motivations and use. Klemp abuses the word "love."
        It's obvious that Klemp has little to No understanding
        of "love" on any level of consciousness.

        Remember, too, Klemp has millions of dollars at his
        disposal and a really nice expensive house in an upscale
        neighborhood in Eden Prairie, MN., and a fantastic Health
        Care and Retirement Plan, plus 50% royalties ($) on all of
        his EK books!


        MA: "Sri Harold is not saying he is supporting the
        Republicans (who propagate socialism as much if
        not more than Democrats), nor is he taking a political
        position on who to vote for."


        ME: Mark doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows.
        Democrates (like FDR & Social Security) tend to want an
        even-playing field for all of the people. Look at who's
        promoting National Health Care! It's not the Republicans
        like Klemp and Rush! Klemp is taking a stand on who
        Not to Vote for! He's discouraging idiots like Mark from
        voting for a Democratic candidate. And, since it will
        come down to either a Republican or a Democrat...
        HK's saying to ECKists to vote for the Republican!


        MA: "He (HK) is simply pointing to an understanding
        that arises naturally out of a recognition of Spiritual Law.
        When Sri Harold says in How the Inner Master Works
        (135-136)...

        HK: 'This is not to say that we don't work with compassion
        and try to help people in need. But socialist programs
        that are legislated from the top, at the expense of the
        individual's freedom, are responsible for the spiritual
        decline of any great country.'


        ME: Social Programs are Not "Legislated from the Top!"
        There is a Congress which is one of Three Bodies of
        the U.S. Government that maintains checks and balances
        (unlike the ECKANKAR Corp). ECKANKAR is a hierarchy
        with a Not so benevolent Dictator (Klemp) at the Top!
        Besides, when did Klemp Ever take Responsibility for
        Anything?! Klemp always blames the chela for their
        "shortcomings." HK can't even Heal chelas by taking
        away or altering their DNA Karmic "effects" let alone
        raise a dead chela... like jesus did!

        MA: "Sri Harold is not pushing a right-wing agenda
        that needs to be balanced by an opposing point of view."

        ME: Actually Klemp is pushing a lop-sided Right-Wing
        Agenda! It can't be balanced with Mark's damage control
        tactics and delusional fear of the truth!

        Mark is denying of the obvious Truth concerning Social
        and Spiritual Justice. A misdirected or distorted imagination
        will make anything fit into one's limited and narrow dogmatic
        perspective. This is being a mindless, and heartless, right-wing
        "follower" without the responsibility of taking ownership.
        A real "change" for ECKists would be the ability to become
        their own Master Soul HERE & NOW while directly communicating
        via the ECK (SPIRIT) with the SUGMAD, and without the need
        (attachment) and desire for an unloving and insane Middleman
        Mahanta to lean upon!

        Prometheus
        p.s.
        Since ECKANKAR is a Religion (church)... does it help the
        poor and homeless? Does Eckankar have a soup kitchen
        or helps out with Habitat For Humanity? No! Only
        individual ECKists, like everyone else, help with these
        needs in the community.

        ECKANKAR donated how much to the Red Cross and
        to Hurricane Katrina relief? Not much if anything! Really,
        what does the ESC do for local poor children that need
        food, clothing, housing, health care, and jobs for their
        parents? Where's the consciousness, where's the love?
        See Harry, talk is cheap! Action speaks louder than words!
        Do the removal of Karmic (DNA) "effects" too! I challenge
        you to Heal your Chelas of Disease! I'll make it even easier
        for you Harry... just Heal the 7th Initiates of their diseases!
        Oh, I know... Catch-22! It's "them" that are preventing
        the Healings from taking place... it's Not you! : -)


        mish wrote:
        >
        > Hi, All!
        >
        > The following is part of a discussion on HuChat, posted
        > by Mark Alexander, "Is Sri Harold a Right Winger?" Mark
        > does a lot of second guessing in interpreting HK's political
        > positions and he also seems to think he knows why people
        > leave eckankar--LOL! Gotta love the idiot! Anyway, you
        > might find Mark's second guessing quite a trip into the
        > delusional mind of an h.i. eckist:
        >
        > "Is Sri Harold a Right Winger?
        >
        > In a word, no.
        >
        > Of course not.
        >
        > To say Harold is a right winger for his statements about the spiritual
        > lie of socialism is as silly as saying he's a left winger for his
        > statements supporting a women's right to choose an abortion.
        >
        > Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths, on the Spiritual
        > Laws of ECK. When he sees many ECKists propagating thought-forms that
        > violate spiritual law, he will address them in his talks to push those
        > buttons and offer those chelas the opportunity to examine those
        > thought-forms and choose between them and the Mahanta.
        >
        > People have left Eckankar because of statements Harold makes simply
        > because:
        >
        > 1) they project meanings into his statements that he would not agree
        > with ("I bet you think this song is about you")
        >
        > 2) they get buttons pushed that put them in the position of choosing
        > between the truth offered by the Mahanta, and holding onto their
        > emotionally charged thought-forms that violate spiritual law that the
        > Mahanta is attempting to bring to their awareness.
        >
        > So the Mahanta cannot properly be put on any political spectrum. Each
        > position he takes is not one based on political ideology but on
        > Spiritual Law.
        >
        > So when he says in Our Spiritual Wakeup Calls (100) "Traps come with
        > all kinds of trappings, and one of the biggest traps is socialism.
        > Hearing this will make some people furious. But I say this just for
        > love.", Sri Harold is not saying he is supporting the Republicans (who
        > propagate socialism as much if not more than Democrats), nor is he
        > taking a political position on who to vote for.
        >
        > He is simply pointing to an understanding that arises naturally out of
        > a recognition of Spiritual Law.
        >
        > When Sri Harold says in How the Inner Master Works (135-136) "This is
        > not to say that we don't work with compassion and try to help people
        > in need. But socialist programs that are legislated from the top, at
        > the expense of the individual's freedom, are responsible for the
        > spiritual decline of any great country.", Sri Harold is not pushing a
        > right-wing agenda that needs to be balanced by an opposing point of view.
        >
        > He is simply doing his job as the Mahanta by pointing to the razor's
        > edge that is the path to spiritual freedom.
        >
        > When Sri Harold says the following in What Is Spiritual Freedom?
        > (169-170), he is doing nothing more than trying to offer each of us an
        > opportunity to take a step out of our minds and let go of mental
        > attachments to ideas that inhibit Spiritual Freedom:
        >
        > "In the United States the government has spent an enormous amount on
        > social reform and aid, even during this last administration. Social
        > welfare has nearly gotten out of hand; it'll get a lot worse. As this
        > happens, taxes increase. It's harder for businesses to hire employees.
        > Then we find the unemployment rate rises, fewer people can pay taxes,
        > and more people live in poverty. Once this cycle begins, you have
        > people voting in officials who promise them something for nothing,
        > entitlements taken from someone else. Once that starts, it's a long
        > slide to the bottom. You kill yourself by taking self-responsibility
        > away from people. It's against spiritual law."
        >
        > Sri Harold here is not speaking as Harold the man. He is speaking as
        > The Living Word and the Spiritual Leader of Eckankar.
        >
        > For that reason, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master puts every chela
        > on notice that they must continually choose between their own minds
        > and the Mahanta, between the path that leads to Spiritual Freedom and
        > political ideas of "fairness" that violate spiritual law.
        >
        > Sri Harold in his talks made it clear that he would at times enjoy
        > listening to Rush Limbaugh.
        >
        > Did this mean he supported every position Rush promoted? No. Of course
        > not.
        >
        > Did it mean Sri Harold was a "right winger"? No. Of course not.
        >
        > Did it mean that Rush gave voice at times to ideas of
        > self-responsibility, accountability, and believing in oneself that was
        > in line with the spiritual laws regarding pursuing the razor's edge?
        >
        > Yes.
        >
        > In The Living Word, Book 3, in the chapter on The Spiritual Lie of
        > Socialism, Sri Harold tells the true story of Thanksgiving. Rush tells
        > this story every year on the day before Thanksgiving.
        >
        > Do these things I've written bother you? Do they push your buttons? If
        > so, perhaps you are faced with a choice, one that you don't have to
        > make today. There is not rush to make that choice.
        >
        > But it is ultimately a choice between the Living Word, the Mahanta,
        > and your own mind.
        >
        > Hey. Maybe I'm completely misreading Sri Harold….but I don't think so.
        >
        > HU and love
        >
        > Mark Alexander" (end of Mark's post)
        >
        > I especially like Mark's final summation--"it is ultmately a choice
        > between the Living Word, the Mahanta, and your own mind."
        > So, Mark is encouraging eckists to give up their own minds
        > and conform to the idiocy of HK! What better way to show
        > how crazy/delusional one can become after being drenched
        > in the brainwashing of eckankar for many years. Mark is really
        > gone--he seems to have given up his mind a long, long time
        > ago! Too bad, so sad! : )
        >
        > It is funny how HK (Big Harry) attacks socialism, but the fascist
        > views of "Rush" seem to be more heartfelt for Klemp. I can see
        > why since socialism promotes an even playing field for individuals
        > (soul=soul) and a higher group consciousness. Whereby Rush's
        > fascist opinions promote a hierarchical mentality with a leader
        > (mahanta) whose words and actions are beyond reproach, or
        > confusing and unspecific and need to be second guessed.
        >
        > Mish
        >
      • prometheus_973
        A second look... Mark A. (MA) channels, quotes, and second guesses ... Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths, on the Spiritual Laws of ECK.
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 25, 2008
          A second look...

          Mark A. (MA) channels, quotes, and second guesses
          Klemp and writes:
          >
          "Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths,
          on the Spiritual Laws of ECK. When he sees many
          ECKists propagating thought-forms that violate
          spiritual law, he will address them in his talks to
          push those buttons and offer those chelas the
          opportunity to examine those thought-forms and
          choose between them and the Mahanta."
          >
          ***
          ME: However, Mark conveniently overlooks the fact
          that Klemp violated the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference
          and walked into a woman's restroom (illegally) and
          invaded the private and secure space of a "white-haired"
          woman. Then Klemp bragged that he "changed" her
          consciousness... without her permission, and states
          "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX!"
          >
          Is the comment that "Restrooms Are Unisex" a political,
          a social, or a religious statement?! Is Klemp trying to
          instill political & social change [Restroom (potty) Law]?
          >
          Why is HK directing EK chelas to the even Lower
          chakras focused upon in restrooms?! In 25 years
          of Klemp at the helm of the Eckankar ship the 6th
          Spiritual Eye Chakra has now been replaced by the
          chakra where sex and waste elimination originates!
          Do HK's "health practitioners" use lower chakra
          manipulations too?

          BTW- Why don't ECKists use the "Crown" Chakra more?

          Also, Klemp was Not Sorry, at all, that he frightened
          this woman... instead he makes an arrogant statement
          to justify his nutty, illegal, and perverted view and
          behaviour of the whole incident. HK even makes fun
          of the woman and disrespects her with his "white-haired
          woman" comments.
          >
          Joan and Sharon Kunin's 12/2007 Mystic World article
          tries to downplay Harry's insane behaviours when in
          public places. Joan and Sharon make HK seem apologetic
          to the "white-haired" woman while mentioning Joan's
          involvement (encouraging the woman to go in the
          men's restroom). This is damage control to distract from
          and avoid the issue of HK's violation of restroom security
          and of the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference. This article
          is a blatant attempt to manipulate chelas' perspectives
          of HK's "restrooms are unisex" comments and without HK's
          awareness of their intent!

          Now! Did this restroom incident represent higher
          consciousness and/or love on Klemp's part? NO!
          It (and HK's remark about Joan talking too much)
          were both demeaning and inexcusable actions that
          only an insensitive narcissist would find appropriate.
          >
          BTW- Isn't it vain for Joan, an ECK 9th Initiate, to color
          her hair? Shouldn't she be "white-haired" too! Little Harry
          Klemp once tried contact lens and then went back to
          wearing glasses. Isn't it vain for ECKists, especially H.I.s,
          to wear contact lens when eye glasses would work just
          as well?
          ***
          >
          ME: Mark makes more excuses for HK's delusions
          and lack of empathy by doing more Second Guessing
          while making excuses to justify HK's (the Mahanta's)
          unloving, insensitive, right-wing, and reactionary
          comments.
          >
          MA: "So when he (HK) says in Our Spiritual Wakeup Calls
          (100):
          >
          'Traps come with all kinds of trappings, and one of the
          biggest traps is socialism. Hearing this will make some
          people furious. But I say this just for love.'
          >
          >
          ME: One can say and do anything out of "love" but that
          doesn't justify or excuse HK's unloving and negative
          words, thoughts, and actions. Don't people kill in the
          name of "love" for their God, Country, or Freedoms.
          This "love" can become corrupted when "tweaked" for
          personal motivations and use. Klemp abuses the words
          "consciousness" and "love." It's obvious that Klemp has
          little to No understanding of "love" on any level of
          consciousness.
          >
          Remember, too, Klemp has millions of dollars at his
          disposal and a really nice & expensive house in an upscale
          neighborhood in Eden Prairie, MN. HK also has a fantastic
          Health Care and Retirement Plan, plus 50% royalties ($) on
          all of his EK books!
          >
          >
          MA: "Sri Harold is not saying he is supporting the
          Republicans (who propagate socialism as much if
          not more than Democrats), nor is he taking a political
          position on who to vote for."
          >
          >
          ME: Mark doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows.
          Democrats (like FDR with Social Security, TVA) tend to
          want an even-playing field for all of the people. Look
          at who's promoting National Health Care! It's not the
          Republicans like Klemp and Rush! Klemp is taking a
          stand on who Not to Vote for! HK's discouraging Sicko
          idiot chelas like Mark from voting for a Democratic
          candidate. And, since it will come down to either a
          Republican or a Democrat... HK's saying to ECKists
          to vote for the Republican!
          >
          >
          MA: "He (HK) is simply pointing to an understanding
          that arises naturally out of a recognition of Spiritual Law.
          When Sri Harold says in How the Inner Master Works
          (135-136)...

          HK: 'This is not to say that we don't work with compassion
          and try to help people in need. But socialist programs
          that are legislated from the top, at the expense of the
          individual's freedom, are responsible for the spiritual
          decline of any great country.'

          >
          ME: Social Programs are Not "Legislated from the Top!"
          There is a Congress with representatives voted upon
          and is one of Three Bodies of the U.S. Government that
          maintains checks and balances (unlike the ECKANKAR
          Corp). ECKANKAR is a hierarchy like the Catholic Church
          with a Not so benevolent Dictator (Klemp) at the Top!
          Besides, when did Klemp Ever take Responsibility for
          Anything?! Klemp always blames the chela for his/her
          "shortcomings." HK can't even Heal chelas by taking
          away or altering their Past Life DNA Karmic "effects"
          let alone restore life and raise a dead chela... like Jesus
          did?!
          >
          MA: "Sri Harold is not pushing a right-wing agenda
          that needs to be balanced by an opposing point of view."
          >
          ME: Actually Klemp is pushing a lop-sided Right-Wing
          Agenda, and it can't be balanced with Mark's damage
          control tactics of delusion & fear while resisting the truth!
          >
          Mark is denying of the obvious Truth concerning Social
          and Spiritual Justice. His misdirected and distorted imagination
          will make anything EK fit into a limited and narrow dogmatic
          perspective. This is being a mindless, and heartless right-wing
          "follower" without the responsibility of taking ownership.
          A real "change" for ECKists would be the ability to become
          their own Master Soul HERE & NOW with direct communication
          with SUGMAD via the ECK (SPIRIT). There is NO need for ECKists
          to have dependency and attachment to a Middleman Mahanta
          any longer!
          >
          Prometheus
          p.s.
          Since ECKANKAR is a Religion (church)... does it help the
          poor and homeless? Does Eckankar have a soup kitchen
          or helps out with Habitat For Humanity? No! Only
          individual ECKists, like everyone else, help with these
          needs in the community.
          >
          ECKANKAR donated how much to the Red Cross and
          to Hurricane Katrina relief? Not much if anything! Really,
          what does HK and the ESC do for local poor children
          that need food, clothing, housing, health care, and jobs
          for their parents? Where's the consciousness, where's
          the love? See Harry, talk is cheap! Action speaks louder
          than words!

          Can't Harry Klemp remove Karmic (DNA) "effects" ?!
          I challenge him to Heal his Chelas of Disease! I'll make
          it even easier for Harry... just Heal the 7th Initiates of
          their diseases! Oh, I know... Catch-22! It's "them" that
          are preventing the Healings from taking place... it's
          Not HK! : -)


          > mish wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi, All!
          > >
          > > The following is part of a discussion on HuChat, posted
          > > by Mark Alexander, "Is Sri Harold a Right Winger?" Mark
          > > does a lot of second guessing in interpreting HK's political
          > > positions and he also seems to think he knows why people
          > > leave eckankar--LOL! Gotta love the idiot! Anyway, you
          > > might find Mark's second guessing quite a trip into the
          > > delusional mind of an h.i. eckist:
          > >
          > > "Is Sri Harold a Right Winger?
          > >
          > > In a word, no.
          > >
          > > Of course not.
          > >
          > > To say Harold is a right winger for his statements about the spiritual
          > > lie of socialism is as silly as saying he's a left winger for his
          > > statements supporting a women's right to choose an abortion.
          > >
          > > Sri Harold builds his foundation on Spiritual Truths, on the Spiritual
          > > Laws of ECK. When he sees many ECKists propagating thought-forms that
          > > violate spiritual law, he will address them in his talks to push those
          > > buttons and offer those chelas the opportunity to examine those
          > > thought-forms and choose between them and the Mahanta.
          > >
          > > People have left Eckankar because of statements Harold makes simply
          > > because:
          > >
          > > 1) they project meanings into his statements that he would not agree
          > > with ("I bet you think this song is about you")
          > >
          > > 2) they get buttons pushed that put them in the position of choosing
          > > between the truth offered by the Mahanta, and holding onto their
          > > emotionally charged thought-forms that violate spiritual law that the
          > > Mahanta is attempting to bring to their awareness.
          > >
          > > So the Mahanta cannot properly be put on any political spectrum. Each
          > > position he takes is not one based on political ideology but on
          > > Spiritual Law.
          > >
          > > So when he says in Our Spiritual Wakeup Calls (100) "Traps come with
          > > all kinds of trappings, and one of the biggest traps is socialism.
          > > Hearing this will make some people furious. But I say this just for
          > > love.", Sri Harold is not saying he is supporting the Republicans (who
          > > propagate socialism as much if not more than Democrats), nor is he
          > > taking a political position on who to vote for.
          > >
          > > He is simply pointing to an understanding that arises naturally out of
          > > a recognition of Spiritual Law.
          > >
          > > When Sri Harold says in How the Inner Master Works (135-136) "This is
          > > not to say that we don't work with compassion and try to help people
          > > in need. But socialist programs that are legislated from the top, at
          > > the expense of the individual's freedom, are responsible for the
          > > spiritual decline of any great country.", Sri Harold is not pushing a
          > > right-wing agenda that needs to be balanced by an opposing point of view.
          > >
          > > He is simply doing his job as the Mahanta by pointing to the razor's
          > > edge that is the path to spiritual freedom.
          > >
          > > When Sri Harold says the following in What Is Spiritual Freedom?
          > > (169-170), he is doing nothing more than trying to offer each of us an
          > > opportunity to take a step out of our minds and let go of mental
          > > attachments to ideas that inhibit Spiritual Freedom:
          > >
          > > "In the United States the government has spent an enormous amount on
          > > social reform and aid, even during this last administration. Social
          > > welfare has nearly gotten out of hand; it'll get a lot worse. As this
          > > happens, taxes increase. It's harder for businesses to hire employees.
          > > Then we find the unemployment rate rises, fewer people can pay taxes,
          > > and more people live in poverty. Once this cycle begins, you have
          > > people voting in officials who promise them something for nothing,
          > > entitlements taken from someone else. Once that starts, it's a long
          > > slide to the bottom. You kill yourself by taking self-responsibility
          > > away from people. It's against spiritual law."
          > >
          > > Sri Harold here is not speaking as Harold the man. He is speaking as
          > > The Living Word and the Spiritual Leader of Eckankar.
          > >
          > > For that reason, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master puts every chela
          > > on notice that they must continually choose between their own minds
          > > and the Mahanta, between the path that leads to Spiritual Freedom and
          > > political ideas of "fairness" that violate spiritual law.
          > >
          > > Sri Harold in his talks made it clear that he would at times enjoy
          > > listening to Rush Limbaugh.
          > >
          > > Did this mean he supported every position Rush promoted? No. Of course
          > > not.
          > >
          > > Did it mean Sri Harold was a "right winger"? No. Of course not.
          > >
          > > Did it mean that Rush gave voice at times to ideas of
          > > self-responsibility, accountability, and believing in oneself that was
          > > in line with the spiritual laws regarding pursuing the razor's edge?
          > >
          > > Yes.
          > >
          > > In The Living Word, Book 3, in the chapter on The Spiritual Lie of
          > > Socialism, Sri Harold tells the true story of Thanksgiving. Rush tells
          > > this story every year on the day before Thanksgiving.
          > >
          > > Do these things I've written bother you? Do they push your buttons? If
          > > so, perhaps you are faced with a choice, one that you don't have to
          > > make today. There is not rush to make that choice.
          > >
          > > But it is ultimately a choice between the Living Word, the Mahanta,
          > > and your own mind.
          > >
          > > Hey. Maybe I'm completely misreading Sri Harold….but I don't think so.
          > >
          > > HU and love
          > >
          > > Mark Alexander" (end of Mark's post)
          > >
          > > I especially like Mark's final summation--"it is ultmately a choice
          > > between the Living Word, the Mahanta, and your own mind."
          > > So, Mark is encouraging eckists to give up their own minds
          > > and conform to the idiocy of HK! What better way to show
          > > how crazy/delusional one can become after being drenched
          > > in the brainwashing of eckankar for many years. Mark is really
          > > gone--he seems to have given up his mind a long, long time
          > > ago! Too bad, so sad! : )
          > >
          > > It is funny how HK (Big Harry) attacks socialism, but the fascist
          > > views of "Rush" seem to be more heartfelt for Klemp. I can see
          > > why since socialism promotes an even playing field for individuals
          > > (soul=soul) and a higher group consciousness. Whereby Rush's
          > > fascist opinions promote a hierarchical mentality with a leader
          > > (mahanta) whose words and actions are beyond reproach, or
          > > confusing and unspecific and need to be second guessed.
          > >
          > > Mish
          > >
          >
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