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Re: ECK H.I.s Lack "Consciousness" and "Love"

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Mish, Liz, and All, Yes, Klemp s plan is to keep his chelas Off-Balance, Dazed, and Confused with contradictions. Look at the ECKANKAR sponsored sites
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 31, 2007
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      Hi Mish, Liz, and All,
      Yes, Klemp's plan is to keep his chelas Off-Balance,
      Dazed, and Confused with contradictions. Look at
      the ECKANKAR sponsored sites CHELA-CHAT and
      HU-CHAT and the negative KAL like thoughts, words,
      and actions of the Mahanta's chosen ones. Look at
      and listen to the Chela On Chela crimes they blatantly
      commit under the noses of the RESA Hierarchy (the
      Mahanta's Special Representatives) and of the All
      Knowing Mahanta! Therefore, since the Mahanta
      KNOWS ALL on ALL PLANES this KAL-like behaviour
      must be with HK's permission! "It's all about consciousness;
      it's all about love." [12/2007 Wisdom Notes]

      Maybe HK is talking about the little "c" consciousness
      and the little "l" love of the Lower Worlds of ECK since
      ECKANKAR is the Religion of... God (KAL). [pg. 385
      Autobiography of a Modern Prophet]

      HK has made an effort to insert the word "Sugmad"
      (5 times in the 12/2007 H.I. Letter and 3 times in
      the 12/2007 Mystic World) to continue his fraud.
      The real proof of the KAL's influence over Klemp is
      there when one just looks for it! When sorting out
      fruit one looks for the bad fruit! This is not a negative
      task. ECKists should look for the BAD FRUIT and ask:
      WHY does the Mahanta make Negative comments and
      permit Negativity on ECK Internet Sites?!


      "Restrooms Are Unisex!" Joan, hush-up! Privacy
      is overrated and the Law of Non-Interference is
      not set in stone! BTW- Is "Restrooms Are Unisex"
      the new "common language" of ECK for the public?
      WHY can't Klemp mention SUGMAD to the public
      when HU seems to be okay to promote?



      Mish wrote:
      "The excuse that eckists use for applying "detachment" in
      place of feelings of compassion and loving empathy is that
      feelings and emotions are seen as astral or lower plane, thus
      feelings and emotions are negative, and this will impede
      their spiritual advancement. Now, that seems selfish, doesn't
      it? I mean to show a cold shoulder to others who are hurting
      because it will prevent eckists from becoming spiritually
      superior--it's contradictory really. How can eckists become more
      spiritually advanced when they show a cold heart to others??? : )"


      Yep! ECKists are very Passive and see the
      practicing of Detachment as a spiritual "discipline"
      and a step up in consciousness. They are fooling
      themselves and taking the easy way out... that of
      Non-responsibility. They don't want to see the
      contradictions because they are weak and powerless
      when Klemp and his cohorts are running the show.
      Some ECKists will become frustrated and strike out
      at others with bad behaviour and will break the rules
      and guidelines in an attempt to regain control over
      their lives. They never could stand to be told what
      to do or not do! But, the passiveness, silence, and
      detachment of others allows them to continue their
      as long as they use certain KEY words from time-to-
      time... example: With ECK Love; May the Blessings Be!

      ECKists can't show Compassion and Empathy (Love)
      because they associate these feelings and emotions
      which something bad (Astral) and to be avoided. HK
      gives mixed messages because Twitchell did as well
      by creating the Mahanta position and dogma to quell
      his critics. Therefore, the Law of Silence and Detachment
      creates a passive group of followers devoid of Love
      and Compassion and Empathy (feelings).

      These hypocrites talk a good talk (to the public) but
      don't walk the walk.

      Prometheus

      p.s. I see that Jack Heyl finally got his 8th!
      Does someone have to die first... before another
      slot is filled?




      mish wrote:
      >
      > "Detachment" is just a cop out in avoiding one's feelings
      > and emotions. Looking at HK's early childhood stories, one
      > detects that he had a lot of difficulty with his emotions, so
      > it is little wonder that he fell for the eckankar scam as created
      > by Twitchell. HK was a good candidate for such nonsense and
      > very contradictory "spiritual" teachings! LOL!
      >
      > The excuse that eckists use for applying "detachment" in
      > place of feelings of compassion and loving empathy is that
      > feelings and emotions are seen as astral or lower plane, thus
      > feelings and emotions are negative, and this will impede
      > their spiritual advancement. Now, that seems selfish, doesn't
      > it? I mean to show a cold shoulder to others who are hurting
      > because it will prevent eckists from becoming spiritually
      > superior--it's contradictory really. How can eckists become more
      > spiritually advanced when they show a cold heart to others??? : )
      >
      > Also, another contradiction in the eck teachings is that
      > contentment is a virtue (actually takes the place of chastity whose
      > opposite passion is lust), but contentment is ever elusive for eckists.
      > Eckists strive for higher plane experiences, viewing this earth as
      > the ash can of the Universe, a prison. Most eckists can hardly wait to
      > leave it; thus, they can never achieve contentment on this earthly plane.
      > When eckists practice detachment and yearn to leave this plane, there
      > can be no attainment of contentment for them. They are never content
      > with the initiation level they have, and it is just another Catch -22
      > because they are never truly happy, i.e. content.
      >
      > There are so many contradictions in the eck teachings that
      > create confusion in the lives of its followers. Eckists profess to
      > be loving and kind, but yet they will show a cold-heartedness toward
      > the sorrows and troubles of others. Eckists certainly must suffer
      > a lot of personal inward pain for putting on such a show. Thus,
      > there is no contentment for eckists when they live so emotionally
      > devoid of sympathetic feelings toward others, even close friends,
      > family members and other eckists who are suffering personal hardships.
      > It's really sad eckists can't see what is in front of them--as they are too
      > busy judging others while excluding themselves from their natural
      > HUman feelings of love and compassion.
      >
      > Mish
      >
      prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi All,
      > > Yes, it's really too bad ECKists lack Compassion
      > > in favor of what they call Detachment. Many ECKists
      > > emulate Klemp with a judgmental view and opinion
      > > of another one's karma.
      > >
      > > ECKists believe when a person dies of cancer it is simply
      > > their karma. ECKists will think these people should have
      > > taken better care of their health. Does anyone else have
      > > responsibility? However, WHY do ECKists die in the same
      > > manner as every non-ECKist? Aren't they (H.I.s) "protected"
      > > or "healed" by their Mahanta? Nope! It doesn't happen!
      > > The Mahanta is Not Responsible for anything that happens
      > > to ECKists or to anyone in the "physical" world. Convenient
      > > isn't it... to have something only the "imagination" can
      > > "prove!"
      > >
      > > BTW- All of these ECK Masters, and angels, etc.
      > > look like they are expected to look! And, non-ECKists
      > > will see Jesus, the Pope, Doug Marman, etc., etc. before
      > > being introduced to their teachings, picture, or a drawing
      > > of their likeness! It's somewhat common, actually, and
      > > there are many testimonials (mostly embellished) by these
      > > people just like there are with ECKists in Klemp's books!
      > >
      > > Oh! I know! ECKists are special because they will have
      > > a "higher consciousness" and the Mahanta's "protection"
      > > and "spiritual healings," but these are only on the "inner
      > > Planes!" The only outer proof of "high" status are the
      > > OUTER "initiations" (and expectations, rules and guidelines
      > > for behaviour and advancement) and the H.I. ID Cards
      > > (that must be kept current annually).
      > >
      > > Now some ECKists will claim to have "spiritual experiences"
      > > with ECK Masters (i.e. HK, PT, RT, etc.), but this is usually
      > > brought about by the mind's programming of Desires
      > > via Imagination or Delusion.
      > >
      > > Almost All religions teach a dogma with "afterlife"
      > > promises where the consciousness (Soul) is raised to
      > > higher "spiritual" Planes. This is where one goes (heaven)
      > > to reside after this negative "physical" life and when the
      > > diseased, broken, or worn-out body is left behind. PT just
      > > "tweaked" these old borrowed religious dogmas to create
      > > a new twist! It wasn't that difficult, but the timing had to
      > > be right (for the con) as Klemp learned.
      > >
      > > Also, Not all religions really demonstrate the Love
      > > and Compassion they preach! There are always exceptions
      > > according to the interpretation of scripture by their
      > > religious leaders... just like in Eckankar. This is, also,
      > > why edits are done to these "holy" scriptures by the
      > > "enlightened" Living Leaders of these religions.
      > >
      > > To demonstrate Compassion and Love would, also,
      > > demonstrate (practice via words, thoughts, actions)
      > > a Higher Consciousness! This is just one of many flaws
      > > and the Catch-22 with Eckankar!

      > > Neither Twitchell or Klemp really demonstrate Empathy,
      > > Love, and Compassion with their words or when dealing
      > > with other people (White-Haired Women, etc.) and
      > > especially when others had a different opinion or perspective.
      > > 9th Initiate Joan hasn't done so well, either, like with that
      > > Temporary Postal Clerk (09/2003 H.I. Letter), with "certain"
      > > ESC Staffers or in men's restrooms!
      > >
      > > It's no wonder, then, that almost all ECKists, especially,
      > > those brain-washed the longest (H.I.s) also reject these
      > > Spiritual traits of Loving Compassion and Empathy as well!
      > >
      > > Just do a re-read of Klemp's books and look for any
      > > sign of Empathy and Love in his stories... it's Not there!
      > > Instead, you will see where HK makes a lot of judgments
      > > and that "it's all about "him" rather than "consciousness"
      > > or "love!"
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > p.s.
      > >
      > > Klemp's last sentence in his 12/2007 Wisdom Notes is:
      > > "It's all about consciousness; it's all about love."
      > >
      > > Mark A. on HU Chat:
      > > "EARLIER IN HIS TALK WHEN JOAN WAS SINGING, SHE GOT
      > > A LITTLE LOST IN SINGING THE COMPLETE SONG AND SO
      > > IT WENT ON LONGER THAN IT SHOULD HAVE. HAROLD MADE
      > > A COMMENT ABOUT HER GOING ON LIKE THAT, AND HOW
      > > SOMETIMES AT HOME HE WOULD HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING
      > > IF SHE TALKS TOO LONG. IT WAS A VERY MALE/FEMALE
      > > COMMENT..."
      > >
      > > What happened to respecting and empowering women
      > > within Eckankar? How can there be a women's initiative
      > > and partnership to strengthen and support the role of
      > > women as agents of "Change" in ECK society when H.K.
      > > treats his wife, as well as, WHITE-HAIRED WOMEN using
      > > their own restrooms as he does? When Joan is made the
      > > LEM nothing will have really "changed" she'll just be on
      > > stage more and writing more articles and some books
      > > (maybe). Joan will still Not be the "full" Mahanta!
    • mishmisha9
      Probably the most appalling part of the eck teachings is burdening chelas with guilt trips when things are going badly for them. There is little sympathy or
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 1, 2008
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        Probably the most appalling part of the eck teachings is
        burdening chelas with guilt trips when things are going
        badly for them. There is little sympathy or understanding
        about problems that chelas have as they are taught that
        hardships are experiences they need to learn from. Even if
        a chela is raped, stalked, and more threatened, it seems that
        some eckists will not offer any help or be supportive other than
        to say that the chela brought this upon herself by the choices she
        made and that these are obvious experiences she needs in order
        to grow in consciousness. I guess cancer is a wonderful experience
        for eckists, too!

        How about an eckist posting a reply to another eckist's painful
        cries by saying, "Oh, we won't worry about it, . . . . We know you
        enjoy being a victim. Have fun." Nice, huh? With eck friends like
        that, who needs enemies?

        Or how about this one: "Hmmmmmm . . . . I get the impression
        that no matter what I or anyone else says to you, you are actually
        enjoying this rehashing of 'boy troubles' publicly and not really
        seeking any solutions or perspectives. You know, when you're
        actually serious about seeking solutions and answers I'm certain
        that they will find you! In the mean time, I'm not really fond of
        melodramas or dissing the guys. <smile>"

        The above posts were replies to a thread called "Love definition?"
        on ChelaChat. Some eckists were kind to the chela crying outloud,
        but these two individuals who wrote these messages seemed to
        demonstrate the cold heart that eckists can develop through the
        eck teachings.

        The really sad thing is that the eckist in pain has now apologized
        for crying out for help--she now realizes she was wrong to share
        the abusive and threatening situation she is in with her fellow
        eckists. So, now she will practice the law of silence--a muzzle
        has been put on her mouth. Gawd, in eckankar higher
        consciousness does not equate with compassion, empathy and
        higher love.

        However, in an earlier post this troubled eckist in fending off
        the insensitive attacks from her fellow eckists, posted:
        "It's a really good way to encourage nervous breakdown and
        complete shutting off from the world, when the events that a
        person has been through is drastically under-estimated, and then
        one's own religion seems to blame them for it. . . . "

        But this eckist is closing off while still clinging to her faulty
        and flawed religious teachings. I feel for her--for her pain, her
        confusion and her disappointments. I hope she and her daughter
        can be safe from the person who is threatening their lives.
        She has been intimidated and silenced by these cold hearted and
        delusional eckists sanctioned by their mahanta and his negative
        example.

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mish, Liz, and All,
        > Yes, Klemp's plan is to keep his chelas Off-Balance,
        > Dazed, and Confused with contradictions. Look at
        > the ECKANKAR sponsored sites CHELA-CHAT and
        > HU-CHAT and the negative KAL like thoughts, words,
        > and actions of the Mahanta's chosen ones. Look at
        > and listen to the Chela On Chela crimes they blatantly
        > commit under the noses of the RESA Hierarchy (the
        > Mahanta's Special Representatives) and of the All
        > Knowing Mahanta! Therefore, since the Mahanta
        > KNOWS ALL on ALL PLANES this KAL-like behaviour
        > must be with HK's permission! "It's all about consciousness;
        > it's all about love." [12/2007 Wisdom Notes]
        >
        > Maybe HK is talking about the little "c" consciousness
        > and the little "l" love of the Lower Worlds of ECK since
        > ECKANKAR is the Religion of... God (KAL). [pg. 385
        > Autobiography of a Modern Prophet]
        >
        > HK has made an effort to insert the word "Sugmad"
        > (5 times in the 12/2007 H.I. Letter and 3 times in
        > the 12/2007 Mystic World) to continue his fraud.
        > The real proof of the KAL's influence over Klemp is
        > there when one just looks for it! When sorting out
        > fruit one looks for the bad fruit! This is not a negative
        > task. ECKists should look for the BAD FRUIT and ask:
        > WHY does the Mahanta make Negative comments and
        > permit Negativity on ECK Internet Sites?!
        >
        >
        > "Restrooms Are Unisex!" Joan, hush-up! Privacy
        > is overrated and the Law of Non-Interference is
        > not set in stone! BTW- Is "Restrooms Are Unisex"
        > the new "common language" of ECK for the public?
        > WHY can't Klemp mention SUGMAD to the public
        > when HU seems to be okay to promote?
        >
        >
        >
        > Mish wrote:
        > "The excuse that eckists use for applying "detachment" in
        > place of feelings of compassion and loving empathy is that
        > feelings and emotions are seen as astral or lower plane, thus
        > feelings and emotions are negative, and this will impede
        > their spiritual advancement. Now, that seems selfish, doesn't
        > it? I mean to show a cold shoulder to others who are hurting
        > because it will prevent eckists from becoming spiritually
        > superior--it's contradictory really. How can eckists become more
        > spiritually advanced when they show a cold heart to others??? : )"
        >
        >
        > Yep! ECKists are very Passive and see the
        > practicing of Detachment as a spiritual "discipline"
        > and a step up in consciousness. They are fooling
        > themselves and taking the easy way out... that of
        > Non-responsibility. They don't want to see the
        > contradictions because they are weak and powerless
        > when Klemp and his cohorts are running the show.
        > Some ECKists will become frustrated and strike out
        > at others with bad behaviour and will break the rules
        > and guidelines in an attempt to regain control over
        > their lives. They never could stand to be told what
        > to do or not do! But, the passiveness, silence, and
        > detachment of others allows them to continue their
        > as long as they use certain KEY words from time-to-
        > time... example: With ECK Love; May the Blessings Be!
        >
        > ECKists can't show Compassion and Empathy (Love)
        > because they associate these feelings and emotions
        > which something bad (Astral) and to be avoided. HK
        > gives mixed messages because Twitchell did as well
        > by creating the Mahanta position and dogma to quell
        > his critics. Therefore, the Law of Silence and Detachment
        > creates a passive group of followers devoid of Love
        > and Compassion and Empathy (feelings).
        >
        > These hypocrites talk a good talk (to the public) but
        > don't walk the walk.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > p.s. I see that Jack Heyl finally got his 8th!
        > Does someone have to die first... before another
        > slot is filled?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > mish wrote:
        > >
        > > "Detachment" is just a cop out in avoiding one's feelings
        > > and emotions. Looking at HK's early childhood stories, one
        > > detects that he had a lot of difficulty with his emotions, so
        > > it is little wonder that he fell for the eckankar scam as created
        > > by Twitchell. HK was a good candidate for such nonsense and
        > > very contradictory "spiritual" teachings! LOL!
        > >
        > > The excuse that eckists use for applying "detachment" in
        > > place of feelings of compassion and loving empathy is that
        > > feelings and emotions are seen as astral or lower plane, thus
        > > feelings and emotions are negative, and this will impede
        > > their spiritual advancement. Now, that seems selfish, doesn't
        > > it? I mean to show a cold shoulder to others who are hurting
        > > because it will prevent eckists from becoming spiritually
        > > superior--it's contradictory really. How can eckists become more
        > > spiritually advanced when they show a cold heart to others??? : )
        > >
        > > Also, another contradiction in the eck teachings is that
        > > contentment is a virtue (actually takes the place of chastity whose
        > > opposite passion is lust), but contentment is ever elusive for eckists.
        > > Eckists strive for higher plane experiences, viewing this earth as
        > > the ash can of the Universe, a prison. Most eckists can hardly wait to
        > > leave it; thus, they can never achieve contentment on this earthly plane.
        > > When eckists practice detachment and yearn to leave this plane, there
        > > can be no attainment of contentment for them. They are never content
        > > with the initiation level they have, and it is just another Catch -22
        > > because they are never truly happy, i.e. content.
        > >
        > > There are so many contradictions in the eck teachings that
        > > create confusion in the lives of its followers. Eckists profess to
        > > be loving and kind, but yet they will show a cold-heartedness toward
        > > the sorrows and troubles of others. Eckists certainly must suffer
        > > a lot of personal inward pain for putting on such a show. Thus,
        > > there is no contentment for eckists when they live so emotionally
        > > devoid of sympathetic feelings toward others, even close friends,
        > > family members and other eckists who are suffering personal hardships.
        > > It's really sad eckists can't see what is in front of them--as they are too
        > > busy judging others while excluding themselves from their natural
        > > HUman feelings of love and compassion.
        > >
        > > Mish
        > >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi All,
        > > > Yes, it's really too bad ECKists lack Compassion
        > > > in favor of what they call Detachment. Many ECKists
        > > > emulate Klemp with a judgmental view and opinion
        > > > of another one's karma.
        > > >
        > > > ECKists believe when a person dies of cancer it is simply
        > > > their karma. ECKists will think these people should have
        > > > taken better care of their health. Does anyone else have
        > > > responsibility? However, WHY do ECKists die in the same
        > > > manner as every non-ECKist? Aren't they (H.I.s) "protected"
        > > > or "healed" by their Mahanta? Nope! It doesn't happen!
        > > > The Mahanta is Not Responsible for anything that happens
        > > > to ECKists or to anyone in the "physical" world. Convenient
        > > > isn't it... to have something only the "imagination" can
        > > > "prove!"
        > > >
        > > > BTW- All of these ECK Masters, and angels, etc.
        > > > look like they are expected to look! And, non-ECKists
        > > > will see Jesus, the Pope, Doug Marman, etc., etc. before
        > > > being introduced to their teachings, picture, or a drawing
        > > > of their likeness! It's somewhat common, actually, and
        > > > there are many testimonials (mostly embellished) by these
        > > > people just like there are with ECKists in Klemp's books!
        > > >
        > > > Oh! I know! ECKists are special because they will have
        > > > a "higher consciousness" and the Mahanta's "protection"
        > > > and "spiritual healings," but these are only on the "inner
        > > > Planes!" The only outer proof of "high" status are the
        > > > OUTER "initiations" (and expectations, rules and guidelines
        > > > for behaviour and advancement) and the H.I. ID Cards
        > > > (that must be kept current annually).
        > > >
        > > > Now some ECKists will claim to have "spiritual experiences"
        > > > with ECK Masters (i.e. HK, PT, RT, etc.), but this is usually
        > > > brought about by the mind's programming of Desires
        > > > via Imagination or Delusion.
        > > >
        > > > Almost All religions teach a dogma with "afterlife"
        > > > promises where the consciousness (Soul) is raised to
        > > > higher "spiritual" Planes. This is where one goes (heaven)
        > > > to reside after this negative "physical" life and when the
        > > > diseased, broken, or worn-out body is left behind. PT just
        > > > "tweaked" these old borrowed religious dogmas to create
        > > > a new twist! It wasn't that difficult, but the timing had to
        > > > be right (for the con) as Klemp learned.
        > > >
        > > > Also, Not all religions really demonstrate the Love
        > > > and Compassion they preach! There are always exceptions
        > > > according to the interpretation of scripture by their
        > > > religious leaders... just like in Eckankar. This is, also,
        > > > why edits are done to these "holy" scriptures by the
        > > > "enlightened" Living Leaders of these religions.
        > > >
        > > > To demonstrate Compassion and Love would, also,
        > > > demonstrate (practice via words, thoughts, actions)
        > > > a Higher Consciousness! This is just one of many flaws
        > > > and the Catch-22 with Eckankar!
        >
        > > > Neither Twitchell or Klemp really demonstrate Empathy,
        > > > Love, and Compassion with their words or when dealing
        > > > with other people (White-Haired Women, etc.) and
        > > > especially when others had a different opinion or perspective.
        > > > 9th Initiate Joan hasn't done so well, either, like with that
        > > > Temporary Postal Clerk (09/2003 H.I. Letter), with "certain"
        > > > ESC Staffers or in men's restrooms!
        > > >
        > > > It's no wonder, then, that almost all ECKists, especially,
        > > > those brain-washed the longest (H.I.s) also reject these
        > > > Spiritual traits of Loving Compassion and Empathy as well!
        > > >
        > > > Just do a re-read of Klemp's books and look for any
        > > > sign of Empathy and Love in his stories... it's Not there!
        > > > Instead, you will see where HK makes a lot of judgments
        > > > and that "it's all about "him" rather than "consciousness"
        > > > or "love!"
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > > > p.s.
        > > >
        > > > Klemp's last sentence in his 12/2007 Wisdom Notes is:
        > > > "It's all about consciousness; it's all about love."
        > > >
        > > > Mark A. on HU Chat:
        > > > "EARLIER IN HIS TALK WHEN JOAN WAS SINGING, SHE GOT
        > > > A LITTLE LOST IN SINGING THE COMPLETE SONG AND SO
        > > > IT WENT ON LONGER THAN IT SHOULD HAVE. HAROLD MADE
        > > > A COMMENT ABOUT HER GOING ON LIKE THAT, AND HOW
        > > > SOMETIMES AT HOME HE WOULD HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING
        > > > IF SHE TALKS TOO LONG. IT WAS A VERY MALE/FEMALE
        > > > COMMENT..."
        > > >
        > > > What happened to respecting and empowering women
        > > > within Eckankar? How can there be a women's initiative
        > > > and partnership to strengthen and support the role of
        > > > women as agents of "Change" in ECK society when H.K.
        > > > treats his wife, as well as, WHITE-HAIRED WOMEN using
        > > > their own restrooms as he does? When Joan is made the
        > > > LEM nothing will have really "changed" she'll just be on
        > > > stage more and writing more articles and some books
        > > > (maybe). Joan will still Not be the "full" Mahanta!
        >
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