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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp Proves: Religion is Religion = Myth an...

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  • etznab@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/10/07 5:26:16 PM Central Standard Time, etznab@aol.com ... In The Lost Continent Of Mu, by James Churchward and Neville Spearman, Chap.
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 11, 2007
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      In a message dated 12/10/07 5:26:16 PM Central Standard Time, etznab@... writes:


        It was some years ago that I attempted to plot traditional
      dates and trivia for the four great ages spoken about in the
      past by various cultures.

         I also provided quotes form the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad that
      appeared contradictory.

         Seldom do I provide commentary for the events recorded
      on my timeline, but in this case I made an exception.

         This post is in response to the one by Prometheus about
      the continent of Lemuria in context to the four ages in Hindu
      tradition.

         The commentary to which I refer is appended to
      the Treta Yuga entry for the year 2,163,102 B.C.at:

      http://mirrorh.com/timeline4mbc.html

      (The date is questionable, so I highlight it in purple).

         The commentary and Shariyat quotes appear here:

      http://mirrorh.com/mu.html

         This was a page I created years ago to supplement my
      B.C. timeline.

         Looking at the dates, something appears awry (IMO).

         At the same time, I have seen a number of dates for the
      four ages in Hindu tradition. Not to mention, several different
      dates for the history of MU.

         What struck me as peculiar were the two Shariyat quotes
      - separated by only a number of pages - where the dates for
      the destruction of Lemuria appear (to me) to differ by about
      2 million years!

         Even after many years, I'm still trying to figure this one out.

      Etznab


         In The Lost Continent Of Mu, by James Churchward and
      Neville Spearman, Chap. 7,  p. 129 is called:

      AGE OF MU'S CIVILIZATION

         I believe this book was published around 1931:
      (some beginning pages are torn out in my copy)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(lost_continent)

         The first paragraph of that chapter reads:

         I HAVE asserted that the civilization of Mu dates back
      to more than 50,000 years ago. Now let us see on what
      foundation I base such date. [....]

         Does 50,000 sound familiar?

         "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
      of man, thought of as the Garden of Eden, was laid on the
      lost continent of Lemuria which was sunk by earthquakes
      and tidal waves fifty thousand years ago. [....]" [Based on:
      Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, 2nd.
      Edition - 1988, p. 107]

         On p. 57 of The Lost Continent Of Mu, Chap. 3 entitled:
      THE LAND OF MAN'S ADVENT ON EARTH, the first par-
      agraph reads:

      "IN the land of Mu we have unquestionably found where
      man made his advent upon the earth. Various records con-
      clusively prove that this land was the Biblical Garden of
      Eden; [....]"

      *********

         The reason for another older date for the destruction of
      Mu comes from the following:

      "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
      its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the  
      crust of the earth some hundreds of thousands of years
      ago. It was a land of the Aryans who spread the empire
      throughout the world. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell,
      The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, seventh printing,  
      1982, p. 97 & eighth printing, 1986, p. 97 ]

         A newer revised version of this section reads:

      "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
      its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the  
      crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
      of years ago. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-
      Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, Second Edition - 1988, p. 112]
       
         This newer version appears (to me) to be the more correct.
      However, it was millions of years ago (one would think) when
      gas chambers were formed in the Earth - and at the time the
      earth was cooling from molten to solid.
         The oldest rocks on earth date back to between 4 and 5
      billion years ago! During the Archeozoic Era.

         I wonder if, perhaps, Paul Twitchell gathered some of the
      information about Earth history from books that he read. Be-
      cause, obviously, some of this information (about Lemuria),
      "apparently" was in print years before Paul Twitchell wrote
      the Shariyat.

         A problem that could result from basing history on books
      (if indeed that was the case with Paul Twitchell with regard
      to ancient Earth history), as I see it, is that any incorrect
      information in such books would have to be corrected by
      someone else later on. And if the source books contained
      any incorrect, or uncertain information (like if it was based
      on theory, on myth, or legend then it would remain a subject
      for further research and investigation.

         Personally, I don't know about many religions that update
      their history if (and when) new information proves the old to
      be incorrect and/or false. At least, not when new data is so
      very different from the old. In this case it could take - and it
      has - hundreds of years for some religions to accept what is
      closer to being the actual truth. IMO.

         It looks to me that Eckankar did make a correction in the
      right direction, by illustrating that it was "gas pockets under
      the crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
      of years ago" and not necessarily "The destruction of the king-
      dom of Lemuria" that happened then.

         In spite of that, however, the Treta Yuga appears to have
      begun around 2 million-something years ago. And in another
      place it looks like Lemuria sank before that:

      "[....] The Tretya Yuga, or Silver Age, came after the breakup
      of the previous age, when Lemuria, by earthquakes and tidal
      waves, went down under the seas. [....]"

      [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book
      Two, p. 113, Second Edition - 1988]

         How can Lemuria get destroyed before the Treta Yuga
      and also at around 50,000 years ago? This is a question
      I'm still trying to answer.

         The time span between these two versions, it appears
      to be a difference of over 2 million years!

         Maybe there needs to be a correction here. IMO.

      Etznab





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    • prometheus_973
      Hi Etznab and All, Yes, it does look like Twit and Klemp were/are as confused as most ECKists are when suggesting this time-line with Lemuria and the Aryans,
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 11, 2007
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        Hi Etznab and All,
        Yes, it does look like Twit and Klemp were/are as confused
        as most ECKists are when suggesting this time-line with
        Lemuria and the Aryans, Garden of Eden, Adom & Ede, etc.
        The difference is that there are supposed to be ECK Masters,
        like ASOKI, that the Mahanta should be in communication with
        in order to sort out the details for clarification (if Eckankar
        dogma were true). A real Mahanta wouldn't be contradicting
        himself when there are supposed to be other "Living" Masters
        to assist him. Plus, isn't the LEM/Mahanta supposed to have
        access to all of those "inner" records? This proves it's all a
        load of crap!

        The problem for Klemp is with the Internet. All Information
        is easier to access and this makes lies easier to uncover. This
        is also why HK came up with his EMR disease (circa 1990)
        because he knew many ECKists would form these symptoms
        due to auto suggestion and wanting to emulate HK as a martyr
        or as a karmic test for mastership. Therefore, the EMR disease
        would keep them away from their computers.

        "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
        of man, thought of as the GARDEN of EDEN, was laid on the
        lost continent of LEMURIA which was Sunk by earthquakes
        and tidal waves FIFTY THOUSAND YEARS AGO. [....]" [Based on:
        Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, 2nd.
        Edition - 1988, p. 107]

        BTW- The ARYANS are supposed to be the "CURRENT" ROOT RACE
        according to Klemp's Eckankar Lexicon!

        "[....] The Destruction of the kingdom of LEMURIA and all
        its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the
        crust of the earth some HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of YEARS
        AGO. It was a land of the ARYANS who spread the empire
        throughout the world. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell,
        The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, seventh printing,
        1982, p. 97 & eighth printing, 1986, p. 97 ]

        Also, I can't seem to find where GAKKO (the man) is said to
        come from VENUS. Does someone know where this is mentioned.
        I know that it is somewhere! Strange, that it's not mentioned in
        the Shariyat! Instead, Twit talks of "the Gakko."

        Prometheus

        etznab writes:
        >
        >
        > > It was some years ago that I attempted to plot traditional
        > > dates and trivia for the four great ages spoken about in the
        > > past by various cultures.
        > >
        > > I also provided quotes form the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad that
        > > appeared contradictory.
        > >
        > > Seldom do I provide commentary for the events recorded
        > > on my timeline, but in this case I made an exception.
        > >
        > > This post is in response to the one by Prometheus about
        > > the continent of Lemuria in context to the four ages in Hindu
        > > tradition.
        > >
        > > The commentary to which I refer is appended to
        > > the Treta Yuga entry for the year 2,163,102 B.C.at:
        > >
        > > http://mirrorh.com/timeline4mbc.html
        > >
        > > (The date is questionable, so I highlight it in purple).
        > >
        > > The commentary and Shariyat quotes appear here:
        > >
        > > http://mirrorh.com/mu.html
        > >
        > > This was a page I created years ago to supplement my
        > > B.C. timeline.
        > >
        > > Looking at the dates, something appears awry (IMO).
        > >
        > > At the same time, I have seen a number of dates for the
        > > four ages in Hindu tradition. Not to mention, several different
        > > dates for the history of MU.
        > >
        > > What struck me as peculiar were the two Shariyat quotes
        > > - separated by only a number of pages - where the dates for
        > > the destruction of Lemuria appear (to me) to differ by about
        > > 2 million years!
        > >
        > > Even after many years, I'm still trying to figure this one out.
        > >
        > > Etznab
        > >
        >
        > In The Lost Continent Of Mu, by James Churchward and
        > Neville Spearman, Chap. 7, p. 129 is called:
        >
        > AGE OF MU'S CIVILIZATION
        >
        > I believe this book was published around 1931:
        > (some beginning pages are torn out in my copy)
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(lost_continent)
        >
        > The first paragraph of that chapter reads:
        >
        > I HAVE asserted that the civilization of Mu dates back
        > to more than 50,000 years ago. Now let us see on what
        > foundation I base such date. [....]
        >
        > Does 50,000 sound familiar?
        >
        > "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
        > of man, thought of as the Garden of Eden, was laid on the
        > lost continent of Lemuria which was sunk by earthquakes
        > and tidal waves fifty thousand years ago. [....]" [Based on:
        > Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, 2nd.
        > Edition - 1988, p. 107]
        >
        > On p. 57 of The Lost Continent Of Mu, Chap. 3 entitled:
        > THE LAND OF MAN'S ADVENT ON EARTH, the first par-
        > agraph reads:
        >
        > "IN the land of Mu we have unquestionably found where
        > man made his advent upon the earth. Various records con-
        > clusively prove that this land was the Biblical Garden of
        > Eden; [....]"
        >
        > *********
        >
        > The reason for another older date for the destruction of
        > Mu comes from the following:
        >
        > "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
        > its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the
        > crust of the earth some hundreds of thousands of years
        > ago. It was a land of the Aryans who spread the empire
        > throughout the world. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell,
        > The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, seventh printing,
        > 1982, p. 97 & eighth printing, 1986, p. 97 ]
        >
        > A newer revised version of this section reads:
        >
        > "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
        > its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the
        > crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
        > of years ago. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-
        > Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, Second Edition - 1988, p. 112]
        >
        > This newer version appears (to me) to be the more correct.
        > However, it was millions of years ago (one would think) when
        > gas chambers were formed in the Earth - and at the time the
        > earth was cooling from molten to solid.
        > The oldest rocks on earth date back to between 4 and 5
        > billion years ago! During the Archeozoic Era.
        >
        > I wonder if, perhaps, Paul Twitchell gathered some of the
        > information about Earth history from books that he read. Be-
        > cause, obviously, some of this information (about Lemuria),
        > "apparently" was in print years before Paul Twitchell wrote
        > the Shariyat.
        >
        > A problem that could result from basing history on books
        > (if indeed that was the case with Paul Twitchell with regard
        > to ancient Earth history), as I see it, is that any incorrect
        > information in such books would have to be corrected by
        > someone else later on. And if the source books contained
        > any incorrect, or uncertain information (like if it was based
        > on theory, on myth, or legend then it would remain a subject
        > for further research and investigation.
        >
        > Personally, I don't know about many religions that update
        > their history if (and when) new information proves the old to
        > be incorrect and/or false. At least, not when new data is so
        > very different from the old. In this case it could take - and it
        > has - hundreds of years for some religions to accept what is
        > closer to being the actual truth. IMO.
        >
        > It looks to me that Eckankar did make a correction in the
        > right direction, by illustrating that it was "gas pockets under
        > the crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
        > of years ago" and not necessarily "The destruction of the king-
        > dom of Lemuria" that happened then.
        >
        > In spite of that, however, the Treta Yuga appears to have
        > begun around 2 million-something years ago. And in another
        > place it looks like Lemuria sank before that:
        >
        > "[....] The Tretya Yuga, or Silver Age, came after the breakup
        > of the previous age, when Lemuria, by earthquakes and tidal
        > waves, went down under the seas. [....]"
        >
        > [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book
        > Two, p. 113, Second Edition - 1988]
        >
        > How can Lemuria get destroyed before the Treta Yuga
        > and also at around 50,000 years ago? This is a question
        > I'm still trying to answer.
        >
        > The time span between these two versions, it appears
        > to be a difference of over 2 million years!
        >
        > Maybe there needs to be a correction here. IMO.
        >
        > Etznab
      • etznab@aol.com
        An apparent contrast between the Lemuria timelines in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One vs. Book Two, IMO, seems connected to the Hindu Yugas. Book One mentions
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 12, 2007
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             An apparent contrast between the Lemuria timelines
          in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One vs. Book Two, IMO,
          seems connected to the Hindu Yugas.

             Book One mentions these Yugas in the first chapter.
          It is in the 3rd chapter, however, that spells out the root
          races of the Earth (including the Lemurian).

             In The Doctrine of the Eck Marg chapter from Shariyat-
          Ki-Sugmad, Book One, the root races appear to be more
          or less referenced in accord with classic history. However,
          it is not until the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two, until the
          timeline for Lemuria appears in context to the four Yugas
          from Hindu tradition.

             What this does is pushes the timeline way, way back
          in my opinion). Millions of years, in fact! And in Book 2
          the Polarian race that included Adom & Ede appears to
          get eclipsed by Lemuria "thought of as the Garden of
          Eden" (The Records of the Kros - 1st page).

             Here, in Book Two, it also alludes to the continent of
          Lemuria sunk by earthquakes and tidal waves 50,000
          years ago:

          "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
          of man, thought of as the Garden of Eden, was laid on the
          lost continent of Lemuria which was sunk by earthquakes
          and tidal waves fifty thousand years ago. [....]"

          [The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, Second Edition -
          1988, p. 107]

             Then, just so many pages later:

          "[....] The Tretya Yuga, or Silver Age, came after the breakup
          of the previous age, when Lemuria, by earthquakes and tidal
          waves, went down under the seas. [....]"

          [The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, p. 113, Second Edition
          - 1988] 

          *********

             Supposing that Lemuria didn't come to an end until 50,000
          years ago (whatever), then obviously Lemuria could not have
          gone "down under the seas" before the Silver Age began so
          many million years ago.

             The numbers just don't add up unless Lemuria survived the
          first cataclysm millions of years ago (IMO).

             I've seen lots of dates in various traditions/mythology's for
          the Four Ages and/or the Four Root Races. I'm not saying
          that I know for certain which ones are correct. The point for
          joining this topic concerns what the teachings of Eckankar
          appear to say about the topic, along with what are my own
          opinions/observations and/or understanding about it based
          upon further research.

             The lesson I learn from looking at the stories from the
          Shariyat is to take another look at what it illustrates for
          ancient Earth history. (BTW, ancient history is a favored
          topic of study for me. One that I've been looking at for a
          number of years now.) I'm learning to ask myself where
          the information came from really, because it's common
          when writing about ancient history for writers to quote a
          previous written source. The reason is that nothing else
          remains in the way of a living eye witness account, so
          all you have to go on is what exists as ancient ruins.

             Now, of course, if there were a spiritual traveler or an
          all-knowing master with access to the actual truth, one
          would probably not expect to find such widely-differing
          illustrations of fact. Especially not ones that have to be
          corrected years later, unless somebody put down the
          wrong information to begin with.

             Forgive me for writing at lengh on this one, but the
          subject is a personal favorite of exploration.

             Over the years when I see questionable, conflicting
          and hard to believe information about ancient history I
          naturally want to begin looking at its composition. In
          fact, the history of the composition of history, where
          the one does not necessarily equate to the other, or
          writing it down in a book does not necessarily make
          something out to be automatically true. No matter
          what the name of the alleged author which, again,
          writing down a word does not necessarily make it
          real in the sense of "historically true". Bugs Bunny
          is a historical truth, but the historical truth of imag-
          ination! He is an imaginary character!

             In other words, animation depends on a living
          being to animate the imaginary character. When
          the animator of the character departs, all that is
          left is the history of an animation. In other words,
          records which can be played over and over again.
          They will never amount to anything new, but will
          play the same pictures over and over again just
          as they were first composed. New animations
          amount to a new animator, IMO, compared to
          the older forms on record.

             Much that I have seen in the way of ancient
          history was the product of imagination. Myths
          are a good example of imaginary history, IMO.
          Sometimes its bits and pieces of actual events
          recorded along with what somebody imagined
          to be the whole story - because they simply
          couldn't remember, or they never saw the rest
          of it. The whole picture.

             Again, I think this happens with ancient history
          because the people who actually witnessed it are
          gone. It's as if the "life" were gone out of it and all
          that remained were so many inanimate objects.
          Books, stories, legends and myths. IMO, we can
          animate the remains, but can we bring back the
          actual life of the previous witness? Can we bring
          back Paul Twitchell and ask him to explain what
          he meant, and why?

             Well, how about the people who wrote ancient
          history, but at the same time were removed from
          it by hundreds, thousands, or millions of years?
          Or how about those who weren't, but who were
          removed nevertheless?

             I think we have to research, investigate, and
          rediscover the truth for ourselves whenever the
          truth appears obviously incredible. Future gen-
          erations might even come to thank us for it. In
          my opinion. (Especially if we ourselves happen
          to become those future generations.)

          Etznab




            



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