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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp Proves: Religion is Religion = Myth an...

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  • etznab@aol.com
    It was some years ago that I attempted to plot traditional dates and trivia for the four great ages spoken about in the past by various cultures. I also
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 10, 2007
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         It was some years ago that I attempted to plot traditional
      dates and trivia for the four great ages spoken about in the
      past by various cultures.

         I also provided quotes form the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad that
      appeared contradictory.

         Seldom do I provide commentary for the events recorded
      on my timeline, but in this case I made an exception.

         This post is in response to the one by Prometheus about
      the continent of Lemuria in context to the four ages in Hindu
      tradition.

         The commentary to which I refer is appended to
      the Treta Yuga entry for the year 2,163,102 B.C.at:

      http://mirrorh.com/timeline4mbc.html

      (The date is questionable, so I highlight it in purple).

         The commentary and Shariyat quotes appear here:

      http://mirrorh.com/mu.html

         This was a page I created years ago to supplement my
      B.C. timeline.

         Looking at the dates, something appears awry (IMO).

         At the same time, I have seen a number of dates for the
      four ages in Hindu tradition. Not to mention, several different
      dates for the history of MU.

         What struck me as peculiar were the two Shariyat quotes
      - separated by only a number of pages - where the dates for
      the destruction of Lemuria appear (to me) to differ by about
      2 million years!

         Even after many years, I'm still trying to figure this one out.

      Etznab



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    • etznab@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/10/07 4:27:40 PM Central Standard Time, ... I believe Lemuria was described as the 3rd root race, and I have added brackets text to the
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 10, 2007
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        In a message dated 12/10/07 4:27:40 PM Central Standard Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


        BTW- When did the ECK Garden of Eden take place
        or the beginnings of the POLARIAN/Adamic Race?
        Could some ECKist ask Klemp for all of us to know?
        Don't forget to ask about Adom and Ede as well!

        However, Klemp's ramblings in his "Autobiography"
        mentions two ECK Masters (Geutan and Dayaka)
        back in Lemuria during the GOLDEN AGE 50,000 years
        ago.

        HK: "Yet, in the silence of the inner worlds, I stood
        tall and free with the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
        Paul Twitchell came in the Soul body this evening to
        open my past to me... Paul and I stood in the Lemurian
        countryside... 'Lemuria was at the peak of its civilization
        about Fifty Thousand years ago,' said Paul."


           I believe Lemuria was described as the 3rd root race,
        and I have added brackets text to the following quotes:

        "Into this world [3rd root race, the Lemurians] came Geutan,
        the third great ECK Master, who served the people of Mu and
        warned them of the coming destruction of the world." [Based on:
        The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One (Copyright 1970, 1987
        ECKANKAR - Third Printing - 1997, p. 58]

           The two root races before that, and the Eck masters said to
        have lived during those times were:

        "Living in secret and teaching to those who would give ears was
        the great Kai-Kuas, the Living ECK Master of these times [2nd
        root race, the Hyperboreans]. He was discovered by the Varkas
        and slain." [Based on: The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One
        (Copyright 1970, 1987 ECKANKAR - Third Printing - 1997, p. 56]

        "Malati, the first ECK Master of record [among the Polarians],
        was sent by the Sugmad into this world to give man his first
        spiritual knowledge of God.
           "For men drifted apart, fought one another for domination over
        tilled lands, trade, women and slaves, and what little wealth they
        had in precious stones. Slowly the ECK was building Its species.
        Then came the race of men called the Hyperboreans, and this
        became the age of the same name, the second root race of mankind."
        [Based on: The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One (Copyright 1970,
        1987 ECKANKAR - Third Printing - 1997, p. 55]

        *********

           The first root race doesn't sound like a "Golden Age" to me.
        Neither does the second.  How the 3rd root race (Lemurians)
        could have existed during the "Golden Age" I am not certain.

           BTW, the Eck Master during the 4th root race was:

        "Castrog, the Living ECK Master, came into this world [4th root
        race, the Atlantean] to teach these olive-skinned people that the
        Supreme Deity was not happy with their ways and dealings in
        black magic. He suffered the death of the sword for his troubles,  
        but not before warning the king that his lands and people would
        soon die under the waters of the sea." [Based on: The Shariyat-
        Ki-Sugmad, Book One (Copyright 1970, 1987 ECKANKAR -
        Third Printing - 1997, p. 59]

           The oldest Eck Master attributed a date appears to have come
        subsequent to all of these ages:

        "Asoki. ah-SOH-kee An ECK - Master still living in the same body
        he inhabited some sixty thousand years before the advent of the
        Christian calendar. Living near the city of Retz on Venus, he spreads
        the message of ECK throughout the planets of the physical world."
        [Based on: A Cosmic Sea of Words - The Eckankar Lexicon, by
        Harold Klemp (Copyright 1998), p. 13]

        *********

           All I can imagine so far is that maybe the continent
        of Lemuria did sink twice. Perhaps only part of it sank
        the first time and then the rest of it sank about 50,000
        years ago.
           I don't see (based on the above information) how this
        could have been during the "Golden Age" though.

        Etznab



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      • prometheus_973
        Hi Etznab and All, Let s not forget Gakko. Both he and Asoki were from Venus! LOL! HK: All Living ECK Masters have decended from the first ECK Master GAKKO,
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 11, 2007
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          Hi Etznab and All,
          Let's not forget Gakko. Both he and Asoki were
          from Venus! LOL!

          HK:"All Living ECK Masters have decended from
          the first ECK Master GAKKO, who came into this
          world about Six Million Years Ago..." [Eckankar
          Lexicon, pg. 125]


          So, Who or What did Gakko preach the message
          of ECK to? Lizards?!


          "MALATI, the first ECK Master of record [among
          the Polarians], was sent by the Sugmad into this
          world to give man his first spiritual knowledge of
          God." [Eckankar Lexicon, g. 132]


          More religious Bull Sh_t! I guess Adom and Ede
          weren't alone... Malati was there! Was there a female
          ECK Master (too) for Cane to have children with?


          "ASOKI. ah-SOH-kee - An ECK Master STILL LIVING
          IN THE SAME BODY HE INHABITED SOME SIXTY
          THOUSAND YEARS before the advent of the Christian
          calendar. Living near the city of Retz on VENUS, he
          spreads the message of ECK throughout the planets
          of the physical world." [Based on: A Cosmic Sea of
          Words - The Eckankar Lexicon, by Harold Klemp
          (Copyright 1998), p. 13]


          I wonder what other planets Asoki visits? Maybe he
          could give a talk at the next (2008) ECK World Wide
          Seminar if he's in this Solar System then! Is it his
          face we see in the moon?


          I agree, it doesn't seem likely that there could have been
          a Golden Age during the First or Second Root Races
          (according to Eckankar Myth/Lies). The thing is... there is
          not only No Proof of these things anymore than there is
          with the myth of other religions, but it Does Not Make
          Sense either! The time-lines are way off! And what's with
          the Venus stuff? Oh, let's not forget about these EK Masters
          still living in the Same 60,000 year old body! I wonder what
          this guy looks like? Yuck! And, Why is it that the most advanced
          Mahanta ever (HK) is so sickly when these other guys have
          perfect health? Oh, I know... Harry's taking on all that Karma!
          Why hasn't he learned how to let go of it and toss it into the
          ECK Stream? See! The Karma thing is just an excuse Klemp
          uses to justify and cover-up the lies. HK's no more an ECK
          Master than G.W. Bush is!

          Why believe the rest of the EK religious crap when we
          know that any and all religious myth is crap! Haven't
          ECKists learned anything about religion in general before
          they joined Eckankar? For some reason common sense
          and critical thinking was/is thrown out the window when
          it comes to Eckankar Dogma. This makes ECKists just
          as gullible and mindless as other religious believers!
          It's come full circle... again!

          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:
          >
          prometheus writes:
          >
          >
          BTW- When did the ECK Garden of Eden take place
          or the beginnings of the POLARIAN/Adamic Race?
          Could some ECKist ask Klemp for all of us to know?
          Don't forget to ask about Adom and Ede as well!
          > >
          However, Klemp's ramblings in his "Autobiography"
          mentions two ECK Masters (Geutan and Dayaka)
          back in Lemuria during the GOLDEN AGE 50,000 years
          ago.
          > >
          HK: "Yet, in the silence of the inner worlds, I stood
          tall and free with the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
          Paul Twitchell came in the Soul body this evening to
          open my past to me... Paul and I stood in the Lemurian
          countryside... 'Lemuria was at the peak of its civilization
          about Fifty Thousand years ago,' said Paul."
          > >
          >
          > I believe Lemuria was described as the 3rd root race,
          > and I have added brackets text to the following quotes:
          >
          > "Into this world [3rd root race, the Lemurians] came Geutan,
          > the third great ECK Master, who served the people of Mu and
          > warned them of the coming destruction of the world." [Based on:
          > The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One (Copyright 1970, 1987
          > ECKANKAR - Third Printing - 1997, p. 58]
          >
          > The two root races before that, and the Eck masters said to
          > have lived during those times were:
          >
          > "Living in secret and teaching to those who would give ears was
          > the great Kai-Kuas, the Living ECK Master of these times [2nd
          > root race, the Hyperboreans]. He was discovered by the Varkas
          > and slain." [Based on: The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One
          > (Copyright 1970, 1987 ECKANKAR - Third Printing - 1997, p. 56]
          >
          > "Malati, the first ECK Master of record [among the Polarians],
          > was sent by the Sugmad into this world to give man his first
          > spiritual knowledge of God.

          > "For men drifted apart, fought one another for domination over
          > tilled lands, trade, women and slaves, and what little wealth they
          > had in precious stones. Slowly the ECK was building Its species.
          > Then came the race of men called the Hyperboreans, and this
          > became the age of the same name, the second root race of mankind."
          > [Based on: The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One (Copyright 1970,
          > 1987 ECKANKAR - Third Printing - 1997, p. 55]
          >
          > *********
          >
          > The first root race doesn't sound like a "Golden Age" to me.
          > Neither does the second. How the 3rd root race (Lemurians)
          > could have existed during the "Golden Age" I am not certain.
          >
          > BTW, the Eck Master during the 4th root race was:
          >
          > "Castrog, the Living ECK Master, came into this world [4th root
          > race, the Atlantean] to teach these olive-skinned people that the
          > Supreme Deity was not happy with their ways and dealings in
          > black magic. He suffered the death of the sword for his troubles,
          > but not before warning the king that his lands and people would
          > soon die under the waters of the sea." [Based on: The Shariyat-
          > Ki-Sugmad, Book One (Copyright 1970, 1987 ECKANKAR -
          > Third Printing - 1997, p. 59]
          >
          > The oldest Eck Master attributed a date appears to have come
          > subsequent to all of these ages:
          >
          > "Asoki. ah-SOH-kee An ECK - Master still living in the same body
          > he inhabited some sixty thousand years before the advent of the
          > Christian calendar. Living near the city of Retz on Venus, he spreads
          > the message of ECK throughout the planets of the physical world."
          > [Based on: A Cosmic Sea of Words - The Eckankar Lexicon, by
          > Harold Klemp (Copyright 1998), p. 13]
          >
          > *********
          >
          > All I can imagine so far is that maybe the continent
          > of Lemuria did sink twice. Perhaps only part of it sank
          > the first time and then the rest of it sank about 50,000
          > years ago.
          > I don't see (based on the above information) how this
          > could have been during the "Golden Age" though.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
          >
          >
          > **************************************
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          > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/10/07 5:26:16 PM Central Standard Time, etznab@aol.com ... In The Lost Continent Of Mu, by James Churchward and Neville Spearman, Chap.
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 11, 2007
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            In a message dated 12/10/07 5:26:16 PM Central Standard Time, etznab@... writes:


              It was some years ago that I attempted to plot traditional
            dates and trivia for the four great ages spoken about in the
            past by various cultures.

               I also provided quotes form the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad that
            appeared contradictory.

               Seldom do I provide commentary for the events recorded
            on my timeline, but in this case I made an exception.

               This post is in response to the one by Prometheus about
            the continent of Lemuria in context to the four ages in Hindu
            tradition.

               The commentary to which I refer is appended to
            the Treta Yuga entry for the year 2,163,102 B.C.at:

            http://mirrorh.com/timeline4mbc.html

            (The date is questionable, so I highlight it in purple).

               The commentary and Shariyat quotes appear here:

            http://mirrorh.com/mu.html

               This was a page I created years ago to supplement my
            B.C. timeline.

               Looking at the dates, something appears awry (IMO).

               At the same time, I have seen a number of dates for the
            four ages in Hindu tradition. Not to mention, several different
            dates for the history of MU.

               What struck me as peculiar were the two Shariyat quotes
            - separated by only a number of pages - where the dates for
            the destruction of Lemuria appear (to me) to differ by about
            2 million years!

               Even after many years, I'm still trying to figure this one out.

            Etznab


               In The Lost Continent Of Mu, by James Churchward and
            Neville Spearman, Chap. 7,  p. 129 is called:

            AGE OF MU'S CIVILIZATION

               I believe this book was published around 1931:
            (some beginning pages are torn out in my copy)

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(lost_continent)

               The first paragraph of that chapter reads:

               I HAVE asserted that the civilization of Mu dates back
            to more than 50,000 years ago. Now let us see on what
            foundation I base such date. [....]

               Does 50,000 sound familiar?

               "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
            of man, thought of as the Garden of Eden, was laid on the
            lost continent of Lemuria which was sunk by earthquakes
            and tidal waves fifty thousand years ago. [....]" [Based on:
            Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, 2nd.
            Edition - 1988, p. 107]

               On p. 57 of The Lost Continent Of Mu, Chap. 3 entitled:
            THE LAND OF MAN'S ADVENT ON EARTH, the first par-
            agraph reads:

            "IN the land of Mu we have unquestionably found where
            man made his advent upon the earth. Various records con-
            clusively prove that this land was the Biblical Garden of
            Eden; [....]"

            *********

               The reason for another older date for the destruction of
            Mu comes from the following:

            "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
            its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the  
            crust of the earth some hundreds of thousands of years
            ago. It was a land of the Aryans who spread the empire
            throughout the world. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell,
            The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, seventh printing,  
            1982, p. 97 & eighth printing, 1986, p. 97 ]

               A newer revised version of this section reads:

            "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
            its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the  
            crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
            of years ago. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-
            Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, Second Edition - 1988, p. 112]
             
               This newer version appears (to me) to be the more correct.
            However, it was millions of years ago (one would think) when
            gas chambers were formed in the Earth - and at the time the
            earth was cooling from molten to solid.
               The oldest rocks on earth date back to between 4 and 5
            billion years ago! During the Archeozoic Era.

               I wonder if, perhaps, Paul Twitchell gathered some of the
            information about Earth history from books that he read. Be-
            cause, obviously, some of this information (about Lemuria),
            "apparently" was in print years before Paul Twitchell wrote
            the Shariyat.

               A problem that could result from basing history on books
            (if indeed that was the case with Paul Twitchell with regard
            to ancient Earth history), as I see it, is that any incorrect
            information in such books would have to be corrected by
            someone else later on. And if the source books contained
            any incorrect, or uncertain information (like if it was based
            on theory, on myth, or legend then it would remain a subject
            for further research and investigation.

               Personally, I don't know about many religions that update
            their history if (and when) new information proves the old to
            be incorrect and/or false. At least, not when new data is so
            very different from the old. In this case it could take - and it
            has - hundreds of years for some religions to accept what is
            closer to being the actual truth. IMO.

               It looks to me that Eckankar did make a correction in the
            right direction, by illustrating that it was "gas pockets under
            the crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
            of years ago" and not necessarily "The destruction of the king-
            dom of Lemuria" that happened then.

               In spite of that, however, the Treta Yuga appears to have
            begun around 2 million-something years ago. And in another
            place it looks like Lemuria sank before that:

            "[....] The Tretya Yuga, or Silver Age, came after the breakup
            of the previous age, when Lemuria, by earthquakes and tidal
            waves, went down under the seas. [....]"

            [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book
            Two, p. 113, Second Edition - 1988]

               How can Lemuria get destroyed before the Treta Yuga
            and also at around 50,000 years ago? This is a question
            I'm still trying to answer.

               The time span between these two versions, it appears
            to be a difference of over 2 million years!

               Maybe there needs to be a correction here. IMO.

            Etznab





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          • prometheus_973
            Hi Etznab and All, Yes, it does look like Twit and Klemp were/are as confused as most ECKists are when suggesting this time-line with Lemuria and the Aryans,
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 11, 2007
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              Hi Etznab and All,
              Yes, it does look like Twit and Klemp were/are as confused
              as most ECKists are when suggesting this time-line with
              Lemuria and the Aryans, Garden of Eden, Adom & Ede, etc.
              The difference is that there are supposed to be ECK Masters,
              like ASOKI, that the Mahanta should be in communication with
              in order to sort out the details for clarification (if Eckankar
              dogma were true). A real Mahanta wouldn't be contradicting
              himself when there are supposed to be other "Living" Masters
              to assist him. Plus, isn't the LEM/Mahanta supposed to have
              access to all of those "inner" records? This proves it's all a
              load of crap!

              The problem for Klemp is with the Internet. All Information
              is easier to access and this makes lies easier to uncover. This
              is also why HK came up with his EMR disease (circa 1990)
              because he knew many ECKists would form these symptoms
              due to auto suggestion and wanting to emulate HK as a martyr
              or as a karmic test for mastership. Therefore, the EMR disease
              would keep them away from their computers.

              "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
              of man, thought of as the GARDEN of EDEN, was laid on the
              lost continent of LEMURIA which was Sunk by earthquakes
              and tidal waves FIFTY THOUSAND YEARS AGO. [....]" [Based on:
              Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, 2nd.
              Edition - 1988, p. 107]

              BTW- The ARYANS are supposed to be the "CURRENT" ROOT RACE
              according to Klemp's Eckankar Lexicon!

              "[....] The Destruction of the kingdom of LEMURIA and all
              its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the
              crust of the earth some HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of YEARS
              AGO. It was a land of the ARYANS who spread the empire
              throughout the world. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell,
              The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, seventh printing,
              1982, p. 97 & eighth printing, 1986, p. 97 ]

              Also, I can't seem to find where GAKKO (the man) is said to
              come from VENUS. Does someone know where this is mentioned.
              I know that it is somewhere! Strange, that it's not mentioned in
              the Shariyat! Instead, Twit talks of "the Gakko."

              Prometheus

              etznab writes:
              >
              >
              > > It was some years ago that I attempted to plot traditional
              > > dates and trivia for the four great ages spoken about in the
              > > past by various cultures.
              > >
              > > I also provided quotes form the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad that
              > > appeared contradictory.
              > >
              > > Seldom do I provide commentary for the events recorded
              > > on my timeline, but in this case I made an exception.
              > >
              > > This post is in response to the one by Prometheus about
              > > the continent of Lemuria in context to the four ages in Hindu
              > > tradition.
              > >
              > > The commentary to which I refer is appended to
              > > the Treta Yuga entry for the year 2,163,102 B.C.at:
              > >
              > > http://mirrorh.com/timeline4mbc.html
              > >
              > > (The date is questionable, so I highlight it in purple).
              > >
              > > The commentary and Shariyat quotes appear here:
              > >
              > > http://mirrorh.com/mu.html
              > >
              > > This was a page I created years ago to supplement my
              > > B.C. timeline.
              > >
              > > Looking at the dates, something appears awry (IMO).
              > >
              > > At the same time, I have seen a number of dates for the
              > > four ages in Hindu tradition. Not to mention, several different
              > > dates for the history of MU.
              > >
              > > What struck me as peculiar were the two Shariyat quotes
              > > - separated by only a number of pages - where the dates for
              > > the destruction of Lemuria appear (to me) to differ by about
              > > 2 million years!
              > >
              > > Even after many years, I'm still trying to figure this one out.
              > >
              > > Etznab
              > >
              >
              > In The Lost Continent Of Mu, by James Churchward and
              > Neville Spearman, Chap. 7, p. 129 is called:
              >
              > AGE OF MU'S CIVILIZATION
              >
              > I believe this book was published around 1931:
              > (some beginning pages are torn out in my copy)
              >
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(lost_continent)
              >
              > The first paragraph of that chapter reads:
              >
              > I HAVE asserted that the civilization of Mu dates back
              > to more than 50,000 years ago. Now let us see on what
              > foundation I base such date. [....]
              >
              > Does 50,000 sound familiar?
              >
              > "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
              > of man, thought of as the Garden of Eden, was laid on the
              > lost continent of Lemuria which was sunk by earthquakes
              > and tidal waves fifty thousand years ago. [....]" [Based on:
              > Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, 2nd.
              > Edition - 1988, p. 107]
              >
              > On p. 57 of The Lost Continent Of Mu, Chap. 3 entitled:
              > THE LAND OF MAN'S ADVENT ON EARTH, the first par-
              > agraph reads:
              >
              > "IN the land of Mu we have unquestionably found where
              > man made his advent upon the earth. Various records con-
              > clusively prove that this land was the Biblical Garden of
              > Eden; [....]"
              >
              > *********
              >
              > The reason for another older date for the destruction of
              > Mu comes from the following:
              >
              > "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
              > its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the
              > crust of the earth some hundreds of thousands of years
              > ago. It was a land of the Aryans who spread the empire
              > throughout the world. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell,
              > The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, seventh printing,
              > 1982, p. 97 & eighth printing, 1986, p. 97 ]
              >
              > A newer revised version of this section reads:
              >
              > "[....] The destruction of the kingdom of Lemuria and all
              > its colonial empire came about by gas pockets under the
              > crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
              > of years ago. [....]" [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-
              > Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, Second Edition - 1988, p. 112]
              >
              > This newer version appears (to me) to be the more correct.
              > However, it was millions of years ago (one would think) when
              > gas chambers were formed in the Earth - and at the time the
              > earth was cooling from molten to solid.
              > The oldest rocks on earth date back to between 4 and 5
              > billion years ago! During the Archeozoic Era.
              >
              > I wonder if, perhaps, Paul Twitchell gathered some of the
              > information about Earth history from books that he read. Be-
              > cause, obviously, some of this information (about Lemuria),
              > "apparently" was in print years before Paul Twitchell wrote
              > the Shariyat.
              >
              > A problem that could result from basing history on books
              > (if indeed that was the case with Paul Twitchell with regard
              > to ancient Earth history), as I see it, is that any incorrect
              > information in such books would have to be corrected by
              > someone else later on. And if the source books contained
              > any incorrect, or uncertain information (like if it was based
              > on theory, on myth, or legend then it would remain a subject
              > for further research and investigation.
              >
              > Personally, I don't know about many religions that update
              > their history if (and when) new information proves the old to
              > be incorrect and/or false. At least, not when new data is so
              > very different from the old. In this case it could take - and it
              > has - hundreds of years for some religions to accept what is
              > closer to being the actual truth. IMO.
              >
              > It looks to me that Eckankar did make a correction in the
              > right direction, by illustrating that it was "gas pockets under
              > the crust of the earth that formed some hundreds of thousands
              > of years ago" and not necessarily "The destruction of the king-
              > dom of Lemuria" that happened then.
              >
              > In spite of that, however, the Treta Yuga appears to have
              > begun around 2 million-something years ago. And in another
              > place it looks like Lemuria sank before that:
              >
              > "[....] The Tretya Yuga, or Silver Age, came after the breakup
              > of the previous age, when Lemuria, by earthquakes and tidal
              > waves, went down under the seas. [....]"
              >
              > [Based on: Paul Twitchell, The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book
              > Two, p. 113, Second Edition - 1988]
              >
              > How can Lemuria get destroyed before the Treta Yuga
              > and also at around 50,000 years ago? This is a question
              > I'm still trying to answer.
              >
              > The time span between these two versions, it appears
              > to be a difference of over 2 million years!
              >
              > Maybe there needs to be a correction here. IMO.
              >
              > Etznab
            • etznab@aol.com
              An apparent contrast between the Lemuria timelines in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One vs. Book Two, IMO, seems connected to the Hindu Yugas. Book One mentions
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 12, 2007
              • 0 Attachment

                   An apparent contrast between the Lemuria timelines
                in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book One vs. Book Two, IMO,
                seems connected to the Hindu Yugas.

                   Book One mentions these Yugas in the first chapter.
                It is in the 3rd chapter, however, that spells out the root
                races of the Earth (including the Lemurian).

                   In The Doctrine of the Eck Marg chapter from Shariyat-
                Ki-Sugmad, Book One, the root races appear to be more
                or less referenced in accord with classic history. However,
                it is not until the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two, until the
                timeline for Lemuria appears in context to the four Yugas
                from Hindu tradition.

                   What this does is pushes the timeline way, way back
                in my opinion). Millions of years, in fact! And in Book 2
                the Polarian race that included Adom & Ede appears to
                get eclipsed by Lemuria "thought of as the Garden of
                Eden" (The Records of the Kros - 1st page).

                   Here, in Book Two, it also alludes to the continent of
                Lemuria sunk by earthquakes and tidal waves 50,000
                years ago:

                "[....] These records tell us that the legendary paradise
                of man, thought of as the Garden of Eden, was laid on the
                lost continent of Lemuria which was sunk by earthquakes
                and tidal waves fifty thousand years ago. [....]"

                [The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, Second Edition -
                1988, p. 107]

                   Then, just so many pages later:

                "[....] The Tretya Yuga, or Silver Age, came after the breakup
                of the previous age, when Lemuria, by earthquakes and tidal
                waves, went down under the seas. [....]"

                [The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad, Book Two, p. 113, Second Edition
                - 1988] 

                *********

                   Supposing that Lemuria didn't come to an end until 50,000
                years ago (whatever), then obviously Lemuria could not have
                gone "down under the seas" before the Silver Age began so
                many million years ago.

                   The numbers just don't add up unless Lemuria survived the
                first cataclysm millions of years ago (IMO).

                   I've seen lots of dates in various traditions/mythology's for
                the Four Ages and/or the Four Root Races. I'm not saying
                that I know for certain which ones are correct. The point for
                joining this topic concerns what the teachings of Eckankar
                appear to say about the topic, along with what are my own
                opinions/observations and/or understanding about it based
                upon further research.

                   The lesson I learn from looking at the stories from the
                Shariyat is to take another look at what it illustrates for
                ancient Earth history. (BTW, ancient history is a favored
                topic of study for me. One that I've been looking at for a
                number of years now.) I'm learning to ask myself where
                the information came from really, because it's common
                when writing about ancient history for writers to quote a
                previous written source. The reason is that nothing else
                remains in the way of a living eye witness account, so
                all you have to go on is what exists as ancient ruins.

                   Now, of course, if there were a spiritual traveler or an
                all-knowing master with access to the actual truth, one
                would probably not expect to find such widely-differing
                illustrations of fact. Especially not ones that have to be
                corrected years later, unless somebody put down the
                wrong information to begin with.

                   Forgive me for writing at lengh on this one, but the
                subject is a personal favorite of exploration.

                   Over the years when I see questionable, conflicting
                and hard to believe information about ancient history I
                naturally want to begin looking at its composition. In
                fact, the history of the composition of history, where
                the one does not necessarily equate to the other, or
                writing it down in a book does not necessarily make
                something out to be automatically true. No matter
                what the name of the alleged author which, again,
                writing down a word does not necessarily make it
                real in the sense of "historically true". Bugs Bunny
                is a historical truth, but the historical truth of imag-
                ination! He is an imaginary character!

                   In other words, animation depends on a living
                being to animate the imaginary character. When
                the animator of the character departs, all that is
                left is the history of an animation. In other words,
                records which can be played over and over again.
                They will never amount to anything new, but will
                play the same pictures over and over again just
                as they were first composed. New animations
                amount to a new animator, IMO, compared to
                the older forms on record.

                   Much that I have seen in the way of ancient
                history was the product of imagination. Myths
                are a good example of imaginary history, IMO.
                Sometimes its bits and pieces of actual events
                recorded along with what somebody imagined
                to be the whole story - because they simply
                couldn't remember, or they never saw the rest
                of it. The whole picture.

                   Again, I think this happens with ancient history
                because the people who actually witnessed it are
                gone. It's as if the "life" were gone out of it and all
                that remained were so many inanimate objects.
                Books, stories, legends and myths. IMO, we can
                animate the remains, but can we bring back the
                actual life of the previous witness? Can we bring
                back Paul Twitchell and ask him to explain what
                he meant, and why?

                   Well, how about the people who wrote ancient
                history, but at the same time were removed from
                it by hundreds, thousands, or millions of years?
                Or how about those who weren't, but who were
                removed nevertheless?

                   I think we have to research, investigate, and
                rediscover the truth for ourselves whenever the
                truth appears obviously incredible. Future gen-
                erations might even come to thank us for it. In
                my opinion. (Especially if we ourselves happen
                to become those future generations.)

                Etznab




                  



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