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Re: Message for Tygerpurr!

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  • Tyger Purr
    Yes Mish, I was very taken aback by this award thing from Shabdahu and didn t know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked by this
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Yes Mish,

      I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
      know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
      by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
      defending a lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
      run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
      type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
      after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
      This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
      support.

      I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
      doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
      admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
      the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
      I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
      what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
      different take on things. For example, I know that I probably would
      not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
      may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.

      ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
      discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
      stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.

      Tygerpurr ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, Tygerpurr!

      Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
      give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
      he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
      group-his comment IMO was directed more at ESA than it
      was at your post.

      I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
      just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
      another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
      endless/going nowhere "debate."

      But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
      appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
      only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
      eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
      with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
      not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
      to misbehave and abuse others! : )

      Mish


      *******************************************
      This is one of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
      --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
      <tianyue@... > wrote:
      >
      >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
      approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
      never said that we should always be nice.

      ###I never said that you said this!####

      There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
      decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
      saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."

      You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
      be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
      and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
      inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
      right medicine."

      ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
      personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
      how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
      ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
      Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
      leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
      understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####

      Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
      understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
      saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
      another person is as deluded as a cult member? And ex-eckists who are
      kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
      from high initiates?

      ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
      award for this. You are way off base.

      Tygerpurr

      More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
      to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
      of a message board Troll?#####
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Tygerpurr, Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford s site. He did a lot of negative posting regarding ESA over there--didn t matter he didn t like us, but he
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 2, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Tygerpurr,

        Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford's site. He did a lot of negative
        posting regarding ESA over there--didn't matter he didn't like us,
        but he seemed to want to create everyone into his own likeness! We
        are far from his ideal! : ) The thing is Shabdahu is generally an
        observer/fence sitter which is fine--nothing wrong with that--but he
        jumps in at times, as if a judge, proclaiming who is right or wrong in
        an instance. In actuality, none of us is totally right or totally wrong. We
        mainly just give opinions (our own). I certainly am not trying to clone
        myself when I express my opinions. I would want those who read my
        poststo think and evaluate what I have said--and decide if my opinions
        have any merit or interest for them. And those who just skip over my
        posts, that's fine too--I'm a skimmer too!

        I posted my comments to you here to let you know that I saw
        nothing wrong in your posts on ET--doesn't mean I totally agree
        with what you wrote, but I mostly did, but even if not in agreement
        I respect your right to express yourself. We learn from each other's
        opinions, I believe. I didn't want to enter the discussion on ET for
        personal reasons, and maybe some others feel the same--but I didn't
        want it to appear that silence indicated diasgreement or lack of care
        for what you wrote there.

        BTW, and I probably shouldn't say this, but with ESA it was all about
        Marla being mistreated. It looks like summer.city is what it is all about
        on ET in the mind of the resident narcissist who gives the appearance of
        a rescuer of still another damsel in distress. Very similar MO in my
        opinion! There's a pattern of behavior! : )

        Well, good luck!

        Mish

        p.s. the comment about another anti-eck group was a reference to
        ESA, and so that is the connection--the only connection, but surely
        it caught shabdahu's attention! : ) Other than that, you're right this is
        not an ESA vs ??? issue. The discussion on ET does not involve ESA--
        but I thought it would help you understand some of the attitude that
        came at you there. But seems you have a history with him too!


        ##########################
        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyger Purr"
        <tygerpurr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes Mish,
        >
        > I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
        > know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
        > by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
        > defending a lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
        > run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
        > type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
        > after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
        > This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
        > support.
        >
        > I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
        > doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
        > admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
        > the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
        > I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
        > what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
        > different take on things. For example, I know that I probably would
        > not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
        > may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.
        >
        > ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
        > discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
        > stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.
        >
        > Tygerpurr ; )
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi, Tygerpurr!
        >
        > Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
        > give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
        > he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
        > group-his comment IMO was directed more at ESA than it
        > was at your post.
        >
        > I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
        > just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
        > another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
        > endless/going nowhere "debate."
        >
        > But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
        > appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
        > only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
        > eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
        > with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
        > not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
        > to misbehave and abuse others! : )
        >
        > Mish
        >
        >
        > *******************************************
        > This is one of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
        > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
        > <tianyue@ > wrote:
        > >
        > >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
        > approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
        > never said that we should always be nice.
        >
        > ###I never said that you said this!####
        >
        > There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
        > decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
        > saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."
        >
        > You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
        > be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
        > and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
        > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
        > right medicine."
        >
        > ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
        > personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
        > how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
        > ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
        > Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
        > leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
        > understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####
        >
        > Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
        > understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
        > saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
        > another person is as deluded as a cult member? And ex-eckists who are
        > kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
        > from high initiates?
        >
        > ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
        > award for this. You are way off base.
        >
        > Tygerpurr
        >
        > More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
        > to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
        > of a message board Troll?#####
        >
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, All! I received a private email from S.P.H. who I wrote about in the post below. I made the mistake of thinking Shabdahu was S.P.H., but he is not, so I
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 6, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, All!

          I received a private email from S.P.H. who I wrote about in the post
          below. I made the mistake of thinking Shabdahu was S.P.H., but he
          is not, so I owe S.P.H. a huge apology which is the purpose of this
          post. I think S.P.H. would agree that he did express a lot of dislike
          for this site, but I was wrong in thinking he was this other poster.
          He does have a somewhat similar yahoo ID which attributed also to
          my mistaking him.

          S.P.H. also wrote that he is not a fence sitter, and so I will retract that
          comment about him as well. He says that he has moved on from the
          BBs, but with curiosity he popped in to check things out-I have to say
          good thing, and I appreciate that he wrote to tell me I am wrong.

          So, S.P.H., I apologize for my comments regarding you. I was wrong--
          no real good excuse for being wrong, but I am sincerely sorry.

          Thanks for writing me so I could correct this and publicly apologize.

          Mish


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
          "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi, Tygerpurr,
          >
          > Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford's site. He did a lot of negative
          > posting regarding ESA over there--didn't matter he didn't like us,
          > but he seemed to want to create everyone into his own likeness! We
          > are far from his ideal! : ) The thing is Shabdahu is generally an
          > observer/fence sitter which is fine--nothing wrong with that--but he
          > jumps in at times, as if a judge, proclaiming who is right or wrong in
          > an instance. In actuality, none of us is totally right or totally wrong. We
          > mainly just give opinions (our own). I certainly am not trying to clone
          > myself when I express my opinions. I would want those who read my
          > poststo think and evaluate what I have said--and decide if my opinions
          > have any merit or interest for them. And those who just skip over my
          > posts, that's fine too--I'm a skimmer too!
          >
          > I posted my comments to you here to let you know that I saw
          > nothing wrong in your posts on ET--doesn't mean I totally agree
          > with what you wrote, but I mostly did, but even if not in agreement
          > I respect your right to express yourself. We learn from each other's
          > opinions, I believe. I didn't want to enter the discussion on ET for
          > personal reasons, and maybe some others feel the same--but I didn't
          > want it to appear that silence indicated diasgreement or lack of care
          > for what you wrote there.
          >
          > BTW, and I probably shouldn't say this, but with ESA it was all about
          > Marla being mistreated. It looks like summer.city is what it is all about
          > on ET in the mind of the resident narcissist who gives the appearance of
          > a rescuer of still another damsel in distress. Very similar MO in my
          > opinion! There's a pattern of behavior! : )
          >
          > Well, good luck!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          > p.s. the comment about another anti-eck group was a reference to
          > ESA, and so that is the connection--the only connection, but surely
          > it caught shabdahu's attention! : ) Other than that, you're right this is
          > not an ESA vs ??? issue. The discussion on ET does not involve ESA--
          > but I thought it would help you understand some of the attitude that
          > came at you there. But seems you have a history with him too!
          >
          >
          > ##########################
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyger Purr"
          > <tygerpurr@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Yes Mish,
          > >
          > > I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
          > > know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
          > > by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
          > > defending a lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
          > > run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
          > > type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
          > > after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
          > > This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
          > > support.
          > >
          > > I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
          > > doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
          > > admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
          > > the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
          > > I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
          > > what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
          > > different take on things. For example, I know that I probably would
          > > not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
          > > may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.
          > >
          > > ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
          > > discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
          > > stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.
          > >
          > > Tygerpurr ; )
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          > > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi, Tygerpurr!
          > >
          > > Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
          > > give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
          > > he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
          > > group-his comment IMO was directed more at ESA than it
          > > was at your post.
          > >
          > > I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
          > > just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
          > > another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
          > > endless/going nowhere "debate."
          > >
          > > But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
          > > appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
          > > only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
          > > eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
          > > with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
          > > not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
          > > to misbehave and abuse others! : )
          > >
          > > Mish
          > >
          > >
          > > *******************************************
          > > This is one of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
          > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
          > > <tianyue@ > wrote:
          > > >
          > > >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
          > > approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
          > > never said that we should always be nice.
          > >
          > > ###I never said that you said this!####
          > >
          > > There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
          > > decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
          > > saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."
          > >
          > > You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
          > > be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
          > > and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
          > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
          > > right medicine."
          > >
          > > ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
          > > personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
          > > how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
          > > ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
          > > Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
          > > leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
          > > understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####
          > >
          > > Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
          > > understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
          > > saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
          > > another person is as deluded as a cult member? And ex-eckists who are
          > > kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
          > > from high initiates?
          > >
          > > ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
          > > award for this. You are way off base.
          > >
          > > Tygerpurr
          > >
          > > More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
          > > to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
          > > of a message board Troll?#####
          > >
          >
        • steven harrison
          Apology accepted As i said, i did not pop up to get involved or cause problems BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS mishmisha9 wrote: Hi, All!
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 7, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Apology accepted
            As i said, i did not pop up to get involved or cause problems
            BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS

            mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

            Hi, All!

            I received a private email from S.P.H. who I wrote about in the post
            below. I made the mistake of thinking Shabdahu was S.P.H., but he
            is not, so I owe S.P.H. a huge apology which is the purpose of this
            post. I think S.P.H. would agree that he did express a lot of dislike
            for this site, but I was wrong in thinking he was this other poster.
            He does have a somewhat similar yahoo ID which attributed also to
            my mistaking him.

            S.P.H. also wrote that he is not a fence sitter, and so I will retract that
            comment about him as well. He says that he has moved on from the
            BBs, but with curiosity he popped in to check things out-I have to say
            good thing, and I appreciate that he wrote to tell me I am wrong.

            So, S.P.H., I apologize for my comments regarding you. I was wrong--
            no real good excuse for being wrong, but I am sincerely sorry.

            Thanks for writing me so I could correct this and publicly apologize.

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
            "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi, Tygerpurr,
            >
            > Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford's site. He did a lot of negative
            > posting regarding ESA over there--didn' t matter he didn't like us,
            > but he seemed to want to create everyone into his own likeness! We
            > are far from his ideal! : ) The thing is Shabdahu is generally an
            > observer/fence sitter which is fine--nothing wrong with that--but he
            > jumps in at times, as if a judge, proclaiming who is right or wrong in
            > an instance. In actuality, none of us is totally right or totally wrong. We
            > mainly just give opinions (our own). I certainly am not trying to clone
            > myself when I express my opinions. I would want those who read my
            > poststo think and evaluate what I have said--and decide if my opinions
            > have any merit or interest for them. And those who just skip over my
            > posts, that's fine too--I'm a skimmer too!
            >
            > I posted my comments to you here to let you know that I saw
            > nothing wrong in your posts on ET--doesn't mean I totally agree
            > with what you wrote, but I mostly did, but even if not in agreement
            > I respect your right to express yourself. We learn from each other's
            > opinions, I believe. I didn't want to enter the discussion on ET for
            > personal reasons, and maybe some others feel the same--but I didn't
            > want it to appear that silence indicated diasgreement or lack of care
            > for what you wrote there.
            >
            > BTW, and I probably shouldn't say this, but with ESA it was all about
            > Marla being mistreated. It looks like summer.city is what it is all about
            > on ET in the mind of the resident narcissist who gives the appearance of
            > a rescuer of still another damsel in distress. Very similar MO in my
            > opinion! There's a pattern of behavior! : )
            >
            > Well, good luck!
            >
            > Mish
            >
            > p.s. the comment about another anti-eck group was a reference to
            > ESA, and so that is the connection-- the only connection, but surely
            > it caught shabdahu's attention! : ) Other than that, you're right this is
            > not an ESA vs ??? issue. The discussion on ET does not involve ESA--
            > but I thought it would help you understand some of the attitude that
            > came at you there. But seems you have a history with him too!
            >
            >
            > ############ ######### #####
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Tyger Purr"
            > <tygerpurr@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Yes Mish,
            > >
            > > I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
            > > know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
            > > by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
            > > defending a lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
            > > run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
            > > type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
            > > after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
            > > This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
            > > support.
            > >
            > > I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
            > > doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
            > > admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
            > > the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
            > > I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
            > > what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
            > > different take on things. For example, I know that I probably would
            > > not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
            > > may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.
            > >
            > > ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
            > > discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
            > > stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.
            > >
            > > Tygerpurr ; )
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
            > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi, Tygerpurr!
            > >
            > > Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
            > > give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
            > > he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
            > > group-his comment IMO was directed more at ESA than it
            > > was at your post.
            > >
            > > I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
            > > just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
            > > another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
            > > endless/going nowhere "debate."
            > >
            > > But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
            > > appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
            > > only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
            > > eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
            > > with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
            > > not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
            > > to misbehave and abuse others! : )
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            > >
            > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ****
            > > This is one of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
            > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
            > > <tianyue@ > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
            > > approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
            > > never said that we should always be nice.
            > >
            > > ###I never said that you said this!####
            > >
            > > There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
            > > decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
            > > saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."
            > >
            > > You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
            > > be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
            > > and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
            > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
            > > right medicine."
            > >
            > > ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
            > > personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
            > > how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
            > > ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
            > > Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
            > > leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
            > > understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####
            > >
            > > Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
            > > understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
            > > saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
            > > another person is as deluded as a cult member? And ex-eckists who are
            > > kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
            > > from high initiates?
            > >
            > > ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
            > > award for this. You are way off base.
            > >
            > > Tygerpurr
            > >
            > > More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
            > > to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
            > > of a message board Troll?#####
            > >
            >



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          • Ingrid
            Hi S. P. H. Good to see you again, even if for short! Hope you are well. Happy holidays, too! Ingrid ... From: steven harrison To:
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 8, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi S. P. H.
               
              Good to see you again, even if for short!
              Hope you are well. Happy holidays, too!
              Ingrid

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: steven harrison <tabbba@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 12:58:01 AM
              Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Apology to S.P.H.

              Apology accepted
              As i said, i did not pop up to get involved or cause problems
              BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS

              mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@yahoo. com> wrote:

              Hi, All!

              I received a private email from S.P.H. who I wrote about in the post
              below. I made the mistake of thinking Shabdahu was S.P.H., but he
              is not, so I owe S.P.H. a huge apology which is the purpose of this
              post. I think S.P.H. would agree that he did express a lot of dislike
              for this site, but I was wrong in thinking he was this other poster.
              He does have a somewhat similar yahoo ID which attributed also to
              my mistaking him.

              S.P.H. also wrote that he is not a fence sitter, and so I will retract that
              comment about him as well. He says that he has moved on from the
              BBs, but with curiosity he popped in to check things out-I have to say
              good thing, and I appreciate that he wrote to tell me I am wrong.

              So, S.P.H., I apologize for my comments regarding you. I was wrong--
              no real good excuse for being wrong, but I am sincerely sorry.

              Thanks for writing me so I could correct this and publicly apologize.

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
              "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi, Tygerpurr,
              >
              > Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford's site. He did a lot of negative
              > posting regarding ESA over there--didn' t matter he didn't like us,
              > but he seemed to want to create everyone into his own likeness! We
              > are far from his ideal! : ) The thing is Shabdahu is generally an
              > observer/fence sitter which is fine--nothing wrong with that--but he
              > jumps in at times, as if a judge, proclaiming who is right or wrong in
              > an instance. In actuality, none of us is totally right or totally wrong. We
              > mainly just give opinions (our own). I certainly am not trying to clone
              > myself when I express my opinions. I would want those who read my
              > poststo think and evaluate what I have said--and decide if my opinions
              > have any merit or interest for them. And those who just skip over my
              > posts, that's fine too--I'm a skimmer too!
              >
              > I posted my comments to you here to let you know that I saw
              > nothing wrong in your posts on ET--doesn't mean I totally agree
              > with what you wrote, but I mostly did, but even if not in agreement
              > I respect your right to express yourself. We learn from each other's
              > opinions, I believe. I didn't want to enter the discussion on ET for
              > personal reasons, and maybe some others feel the same--but I didn't
              > want it to appear that silence indicated diasgreement or lack of care
              > for what you wrote there.
              >
              > BTW, and I probably shouldn't say this, but with ESA it was all about
              > Marla being mistreated. It looks like summer.city is what it is all about
              > on ET in the mind of the resident narcissist who gives the appearance of
              > a rescuer of still another damsel in distress. Very similar MO in my
              > opinion! There's a pattern of behavior! : )
              >
              > Well, good luck!
              >
              > Mish
              >
              > p.s. the comment about another anti-eck group was a reference to
              > ESA, and so that is the connection-- the only connection, but surely
              > it caught shabdahu's attention! : ) Other than that, you're right this is
              > not an ESA vs ??? issue. The discussion on ET does not involve ESA--
              > but I thought it would help you understand some of the attitude that
              > came at you there. But seems you have a history with him too!
              >
              >
              > ############ ######### #####
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Tyger Purr"
              > <tygerpurr@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Yes Mish,
              > >
              > > I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
              > > know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
              > > by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
              > > defending a lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
              > > run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
              > > type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
              > > after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
              > > This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
              > > support.
              > >
              > > I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
              > > doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
              > > admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
              > > the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
              > > I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
              > > what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
              > > different take on things. For example, I know that I probably would
              > > not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
              > > may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.
              > >
              > > ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
              > > discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
              > > stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.
              > >
              > > Tygerpurr ; )
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
              > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi, Tygerpurr!
              > >
              > > Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
              > > give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
              > > he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
              > > group-his comment IMO was directed more at ESA than it
              > > was at your post.
              > >
              > > I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
              > > just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
              > > another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
              > > endless/going nowhere "debate."
              > >
              > > But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
              > > appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
              > > only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
              > > eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
              > > with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
              > > not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
              > > to misbehave and abuse others! : )
              > >
              > > Mish
              > >
              > >
              > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ****
              > > This is one of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
              > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
              > > <tianyue@ > wrote:
              > > >
              > > >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
              > > approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
              > > never said that we should always be nice.
              > >
              > > ###I never said that you said this!####
              > >
              > > There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
              > > decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
              > > saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."
              > >
              > > You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
              > > be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
              > > and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
              > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
              > > right medicine."
              > >
              > > ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
              > > personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
              > > how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
              > > ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
              > > Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
              > > leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
              > > understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####
              > >
              > > Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
              > > understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
              > > saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
              > > another person is as deluded as a cult member? And ex-eckists who are
              > > kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
              > > from high initiates?
              > >
              > > ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
              > > award for this. You are way off base.
              > >
              > > Tygerpurr
              > >
              > > More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
              > > to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
              > > of a message board Troll?#####
              > >
              >



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            • steven harrison
              HELLO INGRID If there really is a ingrid.It seems mish is also tygerr purr and lucy wisecup and who knows who else.I wonder if anybody on this site is real or
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 10, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                HELLO INGRID
                If there really is a ingrid.It seems mish is also tygerr purr and lucy wisecup and who knows who else.I wonder if anybody on this site is real or is it just mish and prometheus creating posters and asking themselves questions sometimes.And why do etznab and prometheus continue to debate information that they know is totally false anyway.I really dont get it.I really dont understand the objective of this site but it doesnt matter i suppose.So how are you(if you are who you say you are)Anyway best wishes and be good
                S.P.H.

                Ingrid <ctecvie@...> wrote:
                Hi S. P. H.

                Good to see you again, even if for short!
                Hope you are well. Happy holidays, too!
                Ingrid

                ********************************************
                NOTE TO S.P.H.: Yes, there is an Ingrid. Mish is Not Tigerpurr
                or any other pseudo on this site and neither is prometheus.
                Members are Anonymous because we choose to be. At least
                one member is still an ECKist. Etznab and I don't "debate info"
                we "share" info that contradicts Truth, Dogma, and Common
                Sense in order to benefit others. There are those who want
                and need to know (and see) why Eckankar isn't working for them.
                This was, also, one purpose of Ford's book "Confessions of a
                God Seeker." Here, we seek the Truth and Why we fell, so easily,
                for the ongoing lies and promises of the religion of Eckankar
                even after knowing/discovering ourselves to be Soul.

                Those of us who were H.I. Leaders and stayed in 25 plus years
                were duped by, yet, another religion! We here on ESA are exploring
                the causes and needs that allowed us to become blinded followers
                despite all of the signs. I hope this clears things up for you and
                you "get" what it is we're doing here. - Prometheus
                *********************************************




                ----- Original Message ----
                From: steven harrison <tabbba@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 12:58:01 AM
                Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Apology to S.P.H.

                Apology accepted
                As i said, i did not pop up to get involved or cause problems
                BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS

                mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@yahoo. com> wrote:

                Hi, All!

                I received a private email from S.P.H. who I wrote about in the post
                below. I made the mistake of thinking Shabdahu was S.P.H., but he
                is not, so I owe S.P.H. a huge apology which is the purpose of this
                post. I think S.P.H. would agree that he did express a lot of dislike
                for this site, but I was wrong in thinking he was this other poster.
                He does have a somewhat similar yahoo ID which attributed also to
                my mistaking him.

                S.P.H. also wrote that he is not a fence sitter, and so I will retract that
                comment about him as well. He says that he has moved on from the
                BBs, but with curiosity he popped in to check things out-I have to say
                good thing, and I appreciate that he wrote to tell me I am wrong.

                So, S.P.H., I apologize for my comments regarding you. I was wrong--
                no real good excuse for being wrong, but I am sincerely sorry.

                Thanks for writing me so I could correct this and publicly apologize.

                Mish

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi, Tygerpurr,
                >
                > Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford's site. He did a lot of negative
                > posting regarding ESA over there--didn' t matter he didn't like us,
                > but he seemed to want to create everyone into his own likeness! We
                > are far from his ideal! : ) The thing is Shabdahu is generally an
                > observer/fence sitter which is fine--nothing wrong with that--but he
                > jumps in at times, as if a judge, proclaiming who is right or wrong in
                > an instance. In actuality, none of us is totally right or totally wrong. We
                > mainly just give opinions (our own). I certainly am not trying to clone
                > myself when I express my opinions. I would want those who read my
                > poststo think and evaluate what I have said--and decide if my opinions
                > have any merit or interest for them. And those who just skip over my
                > posts, that's fine too--I'm a skimmer too!
                >
                > I posted my comments to you here to let you know that I saw
                > nothing wrong in your posts on ET--doesn't mean I totally agree
                > with what you wrote, but I mostly did, but even if not in agreement
                > I respect your right to express yourself. We learn from each other's
                > opinions, I believe. I didn't want to enter the discussion on ET for
                > personal reasons, and maybe some others feel the same--but I didn't
                > want it to appear that silence indicated diasgreement or lack of care
                > for what you wrote there.
                >
                > BTW, and I probably shouldn't say this, but with ESA it was all about
                > Marla being mistreated. It looks like summer.city is what it is all about
                > on ET in the mind of the resident narcissist who gives the appearance of
                > a rescuer of still another damsel in distress. Very similar MO in my
                > opinion! There's a pattern of behavior! : )
                >
                > Well, good luck!
                >
                > Mish
                >
                > p.s. the comment about another anti-eck group was a reference to
                > ESA, and so that is the connection-- the only connection, but surely
                > it caught shabdahu's attention! : ) Other than that, you're right this is
                > not an ESA vs ??? issue. The discussion on ET does not involve ESA--
                > but I thought it would help you understand some of the attitude that
                > came at you there. But seems you have a history with him too!
                >
                >
                > ############ ######### #####
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Tyger Purr"
                > <tygerpurr@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Yes Mish,
                > >
                > > I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
                > > know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
                > > by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
                > > defending a lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
                > > run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
                > > type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
                > > after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
                > > This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
                > > support.
                > >
                > > I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
                > > doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
                > > admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
                > > the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
                > > I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
                > > what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
                > > different take on things. For example, I know that I probably would
                > > not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
                > > may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.
                > >
                > > ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
                > > discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
                > > stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.
                > >
                > > Tygerpurr ; )
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi, Tygerpurr!
                > >
                > > Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
                > > give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
                > > he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
                > > group-his comment IMO was directed more at ESA than it
                > > was at your post.
                > >
                > > I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
                > > just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
                > > another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
                > > endless/going nowhere "debate."
                > >
                > > But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
                > > appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
                > > only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
                > > eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
                > > with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
                > > not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
                > > to misbehave and abuse others! : )
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                > >
                > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ****
                > > This is one of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
                > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
                > > <tianyue@ > wrote:
                > > >
                > > >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
                > > approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
                > > never said that we should always be nice.
                > >
                > > ###I never said that you said this!####
                > >
                > > There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
                > > decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
                > > saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."
                > >
                > > You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
                > > be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
                > > and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
                > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
                > > right medicine."
                > >
                > > ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
                > > personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
                > > how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
                > > ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
                > > Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
                > > leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
                > > understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####
                > >
                > > Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
                > > understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
                > > saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
                > > another person is as deluded as a cult member? And ex-eckists who are
                > > kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
                > > from high initiates?
                > >
                > > ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
                > > award for this. You are way off base.
                > >
                > > Tygerpurr
                > >
                > > More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
                > > to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
                > > of a message board Troll?#####
                > >
                >





                ---------------------------------
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                ---------------------------------
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                ---------------------------------
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              • Ingrid
                Yes Steven I am who I am, take it or leave it. :-) I don t like to play games with several identities. I m fine, thanks, and thanks for your good wishes. Well,
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 11, 2007
                • 0 Attachment

                  Yes Steven I am who I am, take it or leave it. :-) I don't like to play games with several identities.

                   

                  I'm fine, thanks, and thanks for your good wishes. Well, it's no need to read the site if you don't want to. :-)

                   

                  Take care,

                  Ingrid



                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: steven harrison <tabbba@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:31:21 AM
                  Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Apology to S.P.H.

                  HELLO INGRID
                  If there really is a ingrid.It seems mish is also tygerr purr and lucy wisecup and who knows who else.I wonder if anybody on this site is real or is it just mish and prometheus creating posters and asking themselves questions sometimes.And why do etznab and prometheus continue to debate information that they know is totally false anyway.I really dont get it.I really dont understand the objective of this site but it doesnt matter i suppose.So how are you(if you are who you say you are)Anyway best wishes and be good
                  S.P.H.

                  Ingrid <ctecvie@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  Hi S. P. H.

                  Good to see you again, even if for short!
                  Hope you are well. Happy holidays, too!
                  Ingrid

                  ************ ********* ********* ********* *****
                  NOTE TO S.P.H.: Yes, there is an Ingrid. Mish is Not Tigerpurr
                  or any other pseudo on this site and neither is prometheus.
                  Members are Anonymous because we choose to be. At least
                  one member is still an ECKist. Etznab and I don't "debate info"
                  we "share" info that contradicts Truth, Dogma, and Common
                  Sense in order to benefit others. There are those who want
                  and need to know (and see) why Eckankar isn't working for them.
                  This was, also, one purpose of Ford's book "Confessions of a
                  God Seeker." Here, we seek the Truth and Why we fell, so easily,
                  for the ongoing lies and promises of the religion of Eckankar
                  even after knowing/discovering ourselves to be Soul.

                  Those of us who were H.I. Leaders and stayed in 25 plus years
                  were duped by, yet, another religion! We here on ESA are exploring
                  the causes and needs that allowed us to become blinded followers
                  despite all of the signs. I hope this clears things up for you and
                  you "get" what it is we're doing here. - Prometheus
                  ************ ********* ********* ********* ******

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: steven harrison <tabbba@yahoo. com>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 12:58:01 AM
                  Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Apology to S.P.H.

                  Apology accepted
                  As i said, i did not pop up to get involved or cause problems
                  BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS

                  mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@ yahoo. com> wrote:

                  Hi, All!

                  I received a private email from S.P.H. who I wrote about in the post
                  below. I made the mistake of thinking Shabdahu was S.P.H., but he
                  is not, so I owe S.P.H. a huge apology which is the purpose of this
                  post. I think S.P.H. would agree that he did express a lot of dislike
                  for this site, but I was wrong in thinking he was this other poster.
                  He does have a somewhat similar yahoo ID which attributed also to
                  my mistaking him.

                  S.P.H. also wrote that he is not a fence sitter, and so I will retract that
                  comment about him as well. He says that he has moved on from the
                  BBs, but with curiosity he popped in to check things out-I have to say
                  good thing, and I appreciate that he wrote to tell me I am wrong.

                  So, S.P.H., I apologize for my comments regarding you. I was wrong--
                  no real good excuse for being wrong, but I am sincerely sorry.

                  Thanks for writing me so I could correct this and publicly apologize.

                  Mish

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                  "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Hi, Tygerpurr,
                  >
                  >
                  Shabdahu is S.P.H. over on Ford's site. He did a lot of negative
                  > posting regarding ESA over there--didn' t matter he didn't like us,
                  > but he seemed to want to create everyone into his own likeness! We
                  > are far from his ideal! : ) The thing is Shabdahu is generally an
                  > observer/fence sitter which is fine--nothing wrong with that--but he
                  > jumps in at times, as if a judge, proclaiming who is right or wrong in
                  > an instance. In actuality, none of us is totally right or totally wrong. We
                  > mainly just give opinions (our own). I certainly am not trying to clone
                  > myself when I express my opinions. I would want those who read my
                  > poststo think and evaluate what I have said--and decide if my opinions
                  > have any merit or interest for them. And those who just skip over my
                  > posts, that's fine too--I'm a skimmer too!
                  >
                  > I posted my comments to you here to let you know
                  that I saw
                  > nothing wrong in your posts on ET--doesn't mean I totally agree
                  > with what you wrote, but I mostly did, but even if not in agreement
                  > I respect your right to express yourself. We learn from each other's
                  > opinions, I believe. I didn't want to enter the discussion on ET for
                  > personal reasons, and maybe some others feel the same--but I didn't
                  > want it to appear that silence indicated diasgreement or lack of care
                  > for what you wrote there.
                  >
                  > BTW, and I probably shouldn't say this, but with ESA it was all about
                  > Marla being mistreated. It looks like summer.city is what it is all about
                  > on ET in the mind of the resident narcissist who gives the appearance of
                  > a rescuer of still another damsel in distress. Very similar MO in my
                  > opinion! There's a pattern of behavior! : )
                  >
                  > Well, good luck!
                  >
                  > Mish
                  >
                  > p.s. the
                  comment about another anti-eck group was a reference to
                  > ESA, and so that is the connection-- the only connection, but surely
                  > it caught shabdahu's attention! : ) Other than that, you're right this is
                  > not an ESA vs ??? issue. The discussion on ET does not involve ESA--
                  > but I thought it would help you understand some of the attitude that
                  > came at you there. But seems you have a history with him too!
                  >
                  >
                  > ############ ######### #####
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Tyger Purr"
                  > <tygerpurr@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes Mish,
                  > >
                  > > I was very taken aback by this award thing from "Shabdahu" and didn't
                  > > know you had had difficulties with him. However, I have been attacked
                  > > by this individual in the past mainly because it seemed to be
                  > > defending a
                  lot of ek crap ideology and attacking with these endless
                  > > run on sentence posts, with the occasional "and you are an ass hole"
                  > > type remarks mixed in. Most would stop reading his nonsensical post
                  > > after the first paragraph. This is a very passive/aggressive tactic.
                  > > This is the wrong person to get aligned with, and thanking for their
                  > > support.
                  > >
                  > > I really don't know what is going on or why. This slap in the face
                  > > doesn't really make sense to me. I've never liked the mutual
                  > > admiration society tactic either. HOwever, I don't really want to give
                  > > the impression that this is about ESA people Vs. so and so or anyone.
                  > > I post in a lot of different places, and while I get something out of
                  > > what I read here and there, I don't always agree, or I may have a
                  > > different take on things. For example, I know that
                  I probably would
                  > > not do well at a Higher Consciousness Society meeting, even though I
                  > > may have some things in common as far as being anti ek.
                  > >
                  > > ANyway, in some ways it has brought up some interesting topics for
                  > > discussion, if only it wasn't so adversarial. Interesting that this
                  > > stuff is actually getting read. In a way this is good news.
                  > >
                  > > Tygerpurr ; )
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                  > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi, Tygerpurr!
                  > >
                  > > Just wanted to tell you the poster Shabdahu who wanted to
                  > > give an award to a post on ET is very disgruntled with ESA, so
                  > > he resonated with the comment about another anti-eckankar
                  > > group-his comment IMO was directed
                  more at ESA than it
                  > > was at your post.
                  > >
                  > > I'm posting this here rather than on ET because I know it would
                  > > just keep the discussion going over there and probably in
                  > > another direction. I don't care to put myself in another
                  > > endless/going nowhere "debate."
                  > >
                  > > But I will say your posts and Sharon's are very good and
                  > > appropriate replies to summer.city! Especially, since you are
                  > > only expressing your impressions and beliefs about how
                  > > eckancrap and cult mentality operate--I see nothing wrong
                  > > with stating an opinion. Compassion is a wonderful thing if
                  > > not used to make excuses or give rude individuals a free pass
                  > > to misbehave and abuse others! : )
                  > >
                  > > Mish
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ****
                  > > This is one
                  of Tygerpurr's post on another group discussion:
                  > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Tian Yue"
                  > > <tianyue@ > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >In your stating that "always being nice may not be the best
                  > > approach," you've hit upon the essential point of my reply to you. I
                  > > never said that we should always be nice.
                  > >
                  > > ###I never said that you said this!####
                  > >
                  > > There is a big difference between everyday compassion or common
                  > > decency and Eckankar's artificial, affected, exaggerated hype of
                  > > saintly behavior or god-realized "unconditional love."
                  > >
                  > > You also wrote this in your reply: "I am not a Saint nor do I claim to
                  > > be God or Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist
                  > > and execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
                  > >
                  inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
                  > > right medicine."
                  > >
                  > > ####This is just a general statement not meant for you, Leaf,
                  > > personally. It was just a realization that I had about eckankarp and
                  > > how people are drawn into Cults and many ridiculous religious
                  > > ideologies. It is what keeps people stuck for decades in Frauds and
                  > > Scams. It is Egoism to the extreme. The only way an eckist can truely
                  > > leave ekcankarp is if they learn to make friends with themselves and
                  > > understand that it is ok to be HUMAN, imo.####
                  > >
                  > > Do you mean to say that because I chose to treat a stranger with some
                  > > understanding that I'm still harboring some eckankar delusion of
                  > > saintliness? And does this mean that anyone who tries to be nice to
                  > > another person is as deluded as a cult member?
                  And ex-eckists who are
                  > > kind once in a while have inflated egos, similar to that which exudes
                  > > from high initiates?
                  > >
                  > > ####This is obviously not what I said. I don't think you deserve an
                  > > award for this. You are way off base.
                  > >
                  > > Tygerpurr
                  > >
                  > > More and more it does seem that "city.summer" 's post was really meant
                  > > to just be an insult. Would not this fall under part of the definition
                  > > of a message board Troll?#####
                  > >
                  >

                  ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                • Elizabeth
                  Hello SPH and all! :-) I have been busy these days, new grand baby and all! I do pop in and out of the groups from time to time, and this morning I was
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 12, 2007
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                    Hello SPH and all!  :-) 
                     
                    I have been busy these days, new grand baby and all!   I do pop in and out of the groups from time to time, and this morning I was catching up here on ESA....  Found this question by SPH and wanted to point out that I do in fact go by my real name!  I also use whitefeatherliz or whitefeather with most other yahoo groups and at Ford Johnson's site when I was hanging around (not too often btw).   I used my whitefeather id even when I was an eckists so, no news there....
                     
                    I completely understand how using an anonymous id can throw some people off.  It has done that to me as well in the past!  It's hard trying to figure out who someone is or isn't by their writing style!  At the present moment I really don't care who is who....  It's fine with me not always knowing, I respect those who wish to remain anonymous!  As for Etznab;  we here at ESA consider him a friend!  Yep he is an eckists....  Strange isn't it that we would actually call an eckists friend!  ;-)
                     
                    Prometheus has said it much better than I could have, so I say no more on this topic!  (see his remarks below)
                     
                    Hey if I don't get around to visiting the group, wishing everyone a happy holiday season!
                     
                    Liz
                     
                     
                         
                     
                    ************************************************
                    SPH wrote:
                     
                    HELLO INGRID
                    If there really is a ingrid.It seems mish is also tygerr purr and lucy wisecup and who knows who else.I wonder if anybody on this site is real or is it just mish and prometheus creating posters and asking themselves questions sometimes.And why do etznab and prometheus continue to debate information that they know is totally false anyway.I really dont get it.I really dont understand the objective of this site but it doesnt matter i suppose.So how are you(if you are who you say you are)Anyway best wishes and be good
                    S.P.H.

                    ************ ********* ********* ********* *****
                    NOTE TO S.P.H.: Yes, there is an Ingrid. Mish is Not Tigerpurr
                    or any other pseudo on this site and neither is prometheus.
                    Members are Anonymous because we choose to be. At least
                    one member is still an ECKist. Etznab and I don't "debate info"
                    we "share" info that contradicts Truth, Dogma, and Common
                    Sense in order to benefit others. There are those who want
                    and need to know (and see) why Eckankar isn't working for them.
                    This was, also, one purpose of Ford's book "Confessions of a
                    God Seeker." Here, we seek the Truth and Why we fell, so easily,
                    for the ongoing lies and promises of the religion of Eckankar
                    even after knowing/discovering ourselves to be Soul.

                    Those of us who were H.I. Leaders and stayed in 25 plus years
                    were duped by, yet, another religion! We here on ESA are exploring
                    the causes and needs that allowed us to become blinded followers
                    despite all of the signs. I hope this clears things up for you and
                    you "get" what it is we're doing here. - Prometheus
                    ************ ********* ********* ********* ******

                  • mishmisha9
                    Hello, All & S.P.H., snipping S.P.H. s post: ... It seems that S.P.H. thinks that ESA is made up of only two posters who use different ids--I guess it is
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 12, 2007
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                      Hello, All & S.P.H.,

                      snipping S.P.H.'s post:

                      SPH wrote:
                      >
                      > HELLO INGRID
                      > If there really is a ingrid.It seems mish is also tygerr purr and lucy
                      > wisecup and who knows who else.I wonder if anybody on this site is real or
                      > is it just mish and prometheus creating posters and asking themselves
                      > questions sometimes.

                      It seems that S.P.H. thinks that ESA is made up of only two posters
                      who use different ids--I guess it is difficult for him to believe that
                      there are more than a couple of people with similar views posting
                      on ESA. Actually, his comments question the authenticity and honesty
                      of the posters participating here. I am not tygerpurr. I post as Mish and
                      sign off on all my posts as Mish. My name Lucy Wisecup shows up on
                      the side bar if I send a reply directly to ESA from my yahoo email box.
                      So, anyone reading my posts here would clearly see that Mish and Lucy
                      Wisecup are the same poster--there is no intentional deception,
                      especially since my posts (I repeat) are always signed "Mish!" I am not
                      using multiple identities on any BB--I wouldn't have the time if I even
                      wanted to try that nutty way of behaving!

                      I understand that it can seem confusing if the sidebar does on
                      occasion show a different name, but if the posts are read, one can
                      see who the poster is. This is not an unusual occurrence on yahoo
                      groups. The difference can occur when a poster posts directly on the
                      group site and then later sends another post from the poster's
                      email account to the site.

                      Of course, after eckankar, I can see how indiviuals like S.P.H. would
                      be suspicious of people deceiving them--and actually being
                      suspicious can be a good thing as long as it doesn't lead to paranoia! : )

                      Mish


                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
                      <ewickings@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello SPH and all! :-)
                      >
                      > I have been busy these days, new grand baby and all! I do pop in and out
                      > of the groups from time to time, and this morning I was catching up here on
                      > ESA.... Found this question by SPH and wanted to point out that I do in
                      > fact go by my real name! I also use whitefeatherliz or whitefeather with
                      > most other yahoo groups and at Ford Johnson's site when I was hanging around
                      > (not too often btw). I used my whitefeather id even when I was an eckists
                      > so, no news there....
                      >
                      > I completely understand how using an anonymous id can throw some people off.
                      > It has done that to me as well in the past! It's hard trying to figure out
                      > who someone is or isn't by their writing style! At the present moment I
                      > really don't care who is who.... It's fine with me not always knowing, I
                      > respect those who wish to remain anonymous! As for Etznab; we here at ESA
                      > consider him a friend! Yep he is an eckists.... Strange isn't it that we
                      > would actually call an eckists friend! ;-)
                      >
                      > Prometheus has said it much better than I could have, so I say no more on
                      > this topic! (see his remarks below)
                      >
                      > Hey if I don't get around to visiting the group, wishing everyone a happy
                      > holiday season!
                      >
                      > Liz
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ************************************************
                      > SPH wrote:
                      >
                      > HELLO INGRID
                      > If there really is a ingrid.It seems mish is also tygerr purr and lucy
                      > wisecup and who knows who else.I wonder if anybody on this site is real or
                      > is it just mish and prometheus creating posters and asking themselves
                      > questions sometimes.And why do etznab and prometheus continue to debate
                      > information that they know is totally false anyway.I really dont get it.I
                      > really dont understand the objective of this site but it doesnt matter i
                      > suppose.So how are you(if you are who you say you are)Anyway best wishes and
                      > be good
                      > S.P.H.
                      >
                      > ************ ********* ********* ********* *****
                      > NOTE TO S.P.H.: Yes, there is an Ingrid. Mish is Not Tigerpurr
                      > or any other pseudo on this site and neither is prometheus.
                      > Members are Anonymous because we choose to be. At least
                      > one member is still an ECKist. Etznab and I don't "debate info"
                      > we "share" info that contradicts Truth, Dogma, and Common
                      > Sense in order to benefit others. There are those who want
                      > and need to know (and see) why Eckankar isn't working for them.
                      > This was, also, one purpose of Ford's book "Confessions of a
                      > God Seeker." Here, we seek the Truth and Why we fell, so easily,
                      > for the ongoing lies and promises of the religion of Eckankar
                      > even after knowing/discovering ourselves to be Soul.
                      >
                      > Those of us who were H.I. Leaders and stayed in 25 plus years
                      > were duped by, yet, another religion! We here on ESA are exploring
                      > the causes and needs that allowed us to become blinded followers
                      > despite all of the signs. I hope this clears things up for you and
                      > you "get" what it is we're doing here. - Prometheus
                      > ************ ********* ********* ********* ******
                      >
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hi Liz and All, Actually, I still have several friends who are both HI and LO ECKists! I have Love and Empathy for them. I understand where they are coming
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 12, 2007
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                        Hi Liz and All,
                        Actually, I still have several friends who are both
                        HI and LO ECKists! I have Love and Empathy for them.
                        I understand where they are "coming from." We, usually,
                        avoid talking about the EK Dogma and HK... mostly.
                        [They can't handle the Truth... but that's okay!]

                        Sometimes I will ask them: How did the seminar go?;
                        How are things going in the local area? They will always
                        respond and sometimes tell me about the problems
                        they are having (usually with their vahana mission or
                        with other ECKists). If anyone has ever read A.R.E.,
                        HU-Chat, or Chela-Chat it becomes apparent that
                        there are some very nasty card carrying H.I. ECKists
                        out there, and they're encouraged and sanctioned by
                        the ESC, RESA Hierarchy, and both Klemps!

                        Anyway, I'll sometimes give my ECK friends advice,
                        words of encouragement, or a positive and different
                        approach, insights, or a clearer perspective of their
                        situation. They usually seem somewhat surprised
                        but are always appreciative that I have been so kind
                        and understanding towards them. Actually, my kindness
                        is not all that exceptional. They are nice people who
                        have just closed or narrowed their minds to that of
                        a simplistic and limited perspective required of religious
                        "followers" everywhere. Been there, done that, bought
                        the tee shirt... literally!

                        Over the years the restricted dogmatic view has resulted
                        in emotional, mental and spiritual stagnation for almost
                        all ECKists! Klemp's "Restrooms Are Unisex" Change is
                        Change talk, at the 2007 EWWS, represents the tip of the
                        iceberg!

                        Anyway, my EK friends know I am no longer an ECKist
                        and I've told them of Ford Johnson's book "Confessions
                        of a God Seeker." Of course, they, and most ECKists would
                        never read "Confessions" out of fear of going against their
                        Mahanta and a fear of knowing (and acting upon) the Truth.
                        They will say, "If it's not broke why fix it?" Yet, it is broke!
                        All religions are broke! ECKists are in denial and are afraid
                        of losing what little they have. Not to worry though...
                        there's so much more realized after Eckankar! Soul is
                        finally free of the middleman Mahanta and of all that
                        confusing (fake) EK religious dogma, the hierarchy, those
                        Guidelines, the Law of Silence, the fake initiations, and the
                        Vahana crap! That's a load off your shoulders... believe me!

                        ECKists (like other religious believers) will blame
                        their selves for not being strong enough to handle
                        the karmic/spiritual testing. In other words, they
                        experience Guilt and Shame for these shortcomings.
                        They see the lack of protection by the Master is due
                        to their lack of faith and belief which results in a
                        lack of spiritual (higher) consciousness and more
                        "outer" initiations.

                        Eventually, most ECKists will rationalize (like people
                        do) and will tend to believe and imagine that they are
                        "higher" on the Inner Planes. ECKists are encouraged
                        to use their imaginations freely! This is just a coping
                        method (mental medication) that has become a necessary
                        part of the ECK belief system under Klemp's 25 year (plus)
                        reign. This is, also, why Klemp pushes the use of imagination.
                        The Imagination becomes like a drug that ECKists need to
                        use daily in order to delude themselves into believing
                        the distortions are of a "higher truth/reality." It's another
                        case of the blind leading the blind. Eckankar is just another
                        made up religion with a shortcut to heaven! There is more
                        out there, but it is for the individual Soul to discover as
                        It's own Master!


                        Prometheus


                        Elizabeth wrote:
                        [snip]

                        As for Etznab; we here at ESA consider him a friend!
                        Yep he is an eckists.... Strange isn't it that we would
                        actually call an eckist friend! ;-)

                        [snip]
                      • etznab@aol.com
                        I don t recall seeing recent posts here at E.S.A. from S.P.H. (Is that the same S.P.H. from Truthseeker?) Don t recall that many, that is. Is this person
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 12, 2007
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                             I don't recall seeing recent posts here at E.S.A. from
                          S.P.H. (Is that the same "S.P.H." from Truthseeker?)
                          Don't recall that many, that is.

                             Is this person currently posting on E.S.A.? Because,
                          frankly I think someone is a little mixed up. Whoever is
                          alleging that myself and Prometheus are only sharing
                          things that we both know to be false. Who is this one,
                          and what exactly are they referring to?

                             S.P.H., why don't you look at the Shariyat quotes
                          (if you are the one who alleges it) and tell me if they
                          are false. I would like to hear your opinion.

                              SPH wrote:

                          ".... And why do etznab and prometheus continue to
                          debate information that they know is totally false
                          anyway. ...."

                             S.P.H. It's a little hard to discern what you meant
                          by "information" in that sentence.

                             Are you talking about ALL Eckankar information?
                          Do you believe it's all false?

                             I'm not sure what you meant.

                          Etznab









                            




                          **************************************
                          See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
                        • mishmisha9
                          Hi, Etznab! S.P.H. is the one who posted on Ford s BBs. His yahoo id is tabbba. He sometimes uses his name steven harrison too. He s recently posted a few
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 12, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi, Etznab!

                            S.P.H. is the one who posted on Ford's BBs. His yahoo id is
                            tabbba. He sometimes uses his name steven harrison too.
                            He's recently posted a few comments here when I mistaken his
                            yahoo id with another. I'm not sure of what he was meaning
                            either, but you and prometheus are having an interesting
                            discussion!

                            Mish


                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                            etznab@... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I don't recall seeing recent posts here at E.S.A. from
                            > S.P.H. (Is that the same "S.P.H." from Truthseeker?)
                            > Don't recall that many, that is.
                            >
                            > Is this person currently posting on E.S.A.? Because,
                            > frankly I think someone is a little mixed up. Whoever is
                            > alleging that myself and Prometheus are only sharing
                            > things that we both know to be false. Who is this one,
                            > and what exactly are they referring to?
                            >
                            > S.P.H., why don't you look at the Shariyat quotes
                            > (if you are the one who alleges it) and tell me if they
                            > are false. I would like to hear your opinion.
                            >
                            > SPH wrote:
                            >
                            > ".... And why do etznab and prometheus continue to
                            > debate information that they know is totally false
                            > anyway. ...."
                            >
                            > S.P.H. It's a little hard to discern what you meant
                            > by "information" in that sentence.
                            >
                            > Are you talking about ALL Eckankar information?
                            > Do you believe it's all false?
                            >
                            > I'm not sure what you meant.
                            >
                            > Etznab
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > **************************************
                            > See AOL's top rated recipes
                            > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
                            >
                          • steven harrison
                            HEY ETZNAB Yes i am the same S.P.H. you have seen on the truthseeker.I have read the shariyat many times over the years,No need to review it anymore.In my
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 13, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              HEY ETZNAB
                              Yes i am the same S.P.H. you have seen on the truthseeker.I have read the shariyat many times over the years,No need to review it anymore.In my opinion it all comes down to this.There is a powerfull mysterious force in ,and of the universe.This force has never been described,defined,or understood by anybody,religion,organization,or scripture.The intention of this force(if in fact it has one at all) has never been revealed or understood by anyone,relgion,organization,scriptures,etc,etc.Thats where i stand. The bibles,shariyats,vedas,upanishads,etc, of the world have some good stuff in them but do nothing to reveal the nature of god, nor are they are reliable source of past history.As joseph campbell says"they are poetry,not prose".Not all information in the shariyat is false but that is true of every book, no book is wholely false.Its story of history is false,yes.And yes i am mixed up.But that is besides the point
                              HAPPY HOLIDAYS
                              S.P.H

                              etznab@... wrote:

                              I don't recall seeing recent posts here at E.S.A. from
                              S.P.H. (Is that the same "S.P.H." from Truthseeker?)
                              Don't recall that many, that is.

                              Is this person currently posting on E.S.A.? Because,
                              frankly I think someone is a little mixed up. Whoever is
                              alleging that myself and Prometheus are only sharing
                              things that we both know to be false. Who is this one,
                              and what exactly are they referring to?

                              S.P.H., why don't you look at the Shariyat quotes
                              (if you are the one who alleges it) and tell me if they
                              are false. I would like to hear your opinion.

                              SPH wrote:

                              ".... And why do etznab and prometheus continue to
                              debate information that they know is totally false
                              anyway. ...."

                              S.P.H. It's a little hard to discern what you meant
                              by "information" in that sentence.

                              Are you talking about ALL Eckankar information?
                              Do you believe it's all false?

                              I'm not sure what you meant.

                              Etznab














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                            • etznab@aol.com
                              S.P.H. Thanks for the reply and, Happy Holidays to you too! I remember your name from Truthseeker, and I believe you said what you said really well. Etznab
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 13, 2007
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                                S.P.H.

                                   Thanks for the reply and, Happy Holidays to you too!

                                   I remember your name from Truthseeker, and I believe
                                you said what you said really well.

                                Etznab



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                                See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
                              • steven harrison
                                Happy holidays to you as well ,my friend.I am now retiring from the boards BE WELL S.P.H. etznab@aol.com wrote: S.P.H. Thanks for the reply and, Happy Holidays
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 13, 2007
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                                  Happy holidays to you as well ,my friend.I am now retiring from the boards
                                  BE WELL
                                  S.P.H.

                                  etznab@... wrote:
                                  S.P.H.

                                     Thanks for the reply and, Happy Holidays to you too!

                                     I remember your name from Truthseeker, and I believe
                                  you said what you said really well.

                                  Etznab



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