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Klemp's Imbalanced Actions Continue!

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  • prometheus_973
    It s interesting that Klemp doesn t mention his God-Realization experience that led him to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport, being Arrested, and sent
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 11, 2007
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      It's interesting that Klemp doesn't mention
      his "God-Realization" experience that led him
      to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport,
      being Arrested, and sent to a Mental
      Institution (early 1970) in his 1980 book
      "The Wind Of Change."

      Instead, Klemp decides to do some damage
      control and reveal some of the "truth" about
      this incident (that is public record) in his
      1989 book "Child in the Wilderness."

      So, 37 years later Klemp is once again Violating
      the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference by walking
      into a Women's Restroom and telling a startled
      White-Haired woman that "Restrooms are Unisex!"

      Klemp states on page 83 of "Child" that, "It is
      remarkable how strong the fear of God is drummed
      into people." It seems Klemp needs to reread the
      EK Shariyat because there are many threats about
      ECKists leaving the path!

      In April of 1970 Klemp got a job as a proofreader
      not far from the farm in the town of Appleton,
      Wisconsin and was able to attend the Midwest
      EK Seminar in Chicago. He had a room at a boarding
      house not far from his new job. Klemp states on page
      91 that, "Her house was a haven for recluses that only
      wanted a bunk." "Ironically, my woeful surroundings
      did fit me like a glove: I was exactly where I belonged
      (pg.111)."

      I find it, also, ironic that Klemp says, "Above all,
      ECKANKAR is a path of Common Sense. The Mahanta
      never expects someone to be Erratic, nor to carry
      out any instructions without considering what
      Effect that Action might have upon others (pg. 98)."

      Does Klemp use Common Sense? Do his H.I.s use
      Common Sense? Isn't Klemp, still, Erratic after all
      these years?! Didn't his current "Actions" of going
      into that Women's Restroom and declaring "Restrooms
      Are Unisex" have a negative effect upon the White-
      Haired Lady? Sure! But he doesn't care... Klemp's
      still insane! It didn't "change" her consciousness
      in a positive way! Klemp frightened her and it was
      perverted on Klemp's part! HK's deluded to think he's
      above Spiritual Laws or Criminal and Civil Laws!
      Klemp was a 2nd initiate, then, and a deluded wannabe
      that planned to position himself within the EK org.,
      kept a low-profile, and learned how to "play the
      game."

      Can there be a negative God-Realization experience?
      HK justifies his actions by stating there can be. "God-
      Realization may span a profoundly beautiful experience
      to the RUTHLESS tearing away of one's final illusions
      (pg. 126)."

      So, a negative "tearing away of one's final illusions"
      Caused the deluded Klemp to imagine the bridge tender
      to be an ECK Master, then jump off a bridge and to
      disrobe at the airport. However, this (according to him)
      was Cause and Effect and Karma is Lower World and,
      therefore, this cannot be the result of a God-Realized
      experience! However, this was just another 20/20
      hindsight excuse (disclaimer) as well. Klemp's 19 year
      later recount of events shows that he was both Manic
      and Depressive.

      The events that unfolded were not necessarily due to
      his seminar experience, but from his own delusional
      view of reality. The seminar experience just acted as
      a catalyst and magnified Klemp's emotional and anti-
      social disharmony and psychological imbalance. This
      imbalance (according to Klemp) was the result of the
      ECK power associated with a God-Realization experience.

      Therefore, Klemp decided to share and "redirect this
      God energy" at work. This led to chaos! Klemp mentions
      (THREE times on pg. 116) that he was being a Black Magician!
      "While bedlam reigned, I behaved like a perfect angel (pg.118)."

      Klemp, also, admits (pg. 118) that he "had breached the
      spiritual Law of Noninterference." However, he's violated
      this Law and others on many occasions! If a 14th Initiate
      and right hand of the SUGMAD can do this then what hope
      does any other ECKist have?! In Truth, ECKists are in the
      same boat with every other religious believer!

      Isn't it interesting that early-on Klemp's (white-haired?)
      landlady "warned him against late baths" (pg.111). Was
      this a prophecy?

      Anyway, I'm visualizing Klemp dragging himself out of
      the river (after his jump from the bridge), sneaking into
      the boarding house to change his clothes, going to the
      airport with, still, wet hair and a wild look in his eyes,
      and then making an unreported stop in the Women's
      Restroom to shout "I declare this restroom to be Unisex!"
      and then going to the terminal to disrobe! LOL!

      Klemp's 2007 EWWS talk is "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
      for all ECKists that still have some Common Sense left!

      Prometheus
    • mishmisha9
      Re: Klemp s Imbalanced Actions Continue! Really good post, Prometheus! I find it interesting that Appleton, WI is a city close to where Klemp grew up on the
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 11, 2007
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        Re: Klemp's Imbalanced Actions Continue!

        Really good post, Prometheus!

        I find it interesting that Appleton, WI is a city close to
        where Klemp grew up on the farm! It is especially of
        interest since Cheryl G on HuChat has shared a bit of
        her story on how she found eckankar.

        From HuChat,Cheryl shared:
        "As to where I found Eckankar... it was a newspaper ad in
        either '65 or '66, not sure anymore which it was. Paul was
        giving a talk. I missed the talk, ending up the street at another
        place to meet the man who had driven the car my mother died
        in. I kept thinking about wanting to hear Paul speak, but instead
        had to deal with the oddity of being moved to tears by the man
        I had to deal with. In the end, I walked away forgiving him realizing
        that somethings are destined to be what they are. I hung onto that
        ad for decades! It was in my wallet, and every now and then I'd take
        it out and wonder how Paul was. Then one day in 1979 in Appleton
        WI, I was walking into the theatre where I worked, and saw an ECK
        bumper sticker! I was elated!!! I went into work, all excited about it
        and telling everyone in the office. Turned out that the social worker
        who helped me staff our theatre with youth from local schools was
        there, and it was his car! He gave the phone number for the book
        lady and the rest is history! <smile>"

        I wonder if Cheryl had any idea how close she was to Klemp's
        stomping grounds when she lived in Appleton? Is this where Klemp
        jumped off the bridge? It would seem some sort of plaque regarding
        that event would be appropriate--sort of like a shrine? Well, I don't
        think Paducah KY lays claim to Twitchell either--LOL! However, if
        Appleton is steeped in Klemp's early history, it would make a nice
        tourist attraction for eckists traveling on their way to the temple
        of eck! Appleton WI where it all began for the delusional Klemp and
        also Cheryl G! LOL!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > It's interesting that Klemp doesn't mention
        > his "God-Realization" experience that led him
        > to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport,
        > being Arrested, and sent to a Mental
        > Institution (early 1970) in his 1980 book
        > "The Wind Of Change."
        >
        > Instead, Klemp decides to do some damage
        > control and reveal some of the "truth" about
        > this incident (that is public record) in his
        > 1989 book "Child in the Wilderness."
        >
        > So, 37 years later Klemp is once again Violating
        > the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference by walking
        > into a Women's Restroom and telling a startled
        > White-Haired woman that "Restrooms are Unisex!"
        >
        > Klemp states on page 83 of "Child" that, "It is
        > remarkable how strong the fear of God is drummed
        > into people." It seems Klemp needs to reread the
        > EK Shariyat because there are many threats about
        > ECKists leaving the path!
        >
        > In April of 1970 Klemp got a job as a proofreader
        > not far from the farm in the town of Appleton,
        > Wisconsin and was able to attend the Midwest
        > EK Seminar in Chicago. He had a room at a boarding
        > house not far from his new job. Klemp states on page
        > 91 that, "Her house was a haven for recluses that only
        > wanted a bunk." "Ironically, my woeful surroundings
        > did fit me like a glove: I was exactly where I belonged
        > (pg.111)."
        >
        > I find it, also, ironic that Klemp says, "Above all,
        > ECKANKAR is a path of Common Sense. The Mahanta
        > never expects someone to be Erratic, nor to carry
        > out any instructions without considering what
        > Effect that Action might have upon others (pg. 98)."
        >
        > Does Klemp use Common Sense? Do his H.I.s use
        > Common Sense? Isn't Klemp, still, Erratic after all
        > these years?! Didn't his current "Actions" of going
        > into that Women's Restroom and declaring "Restrooms
        > Are Unisex" have a negative effect upon the White-
        > Haired Lady? Sure! But he doesn't care... Klemp's
        > still insane! It didn't "change" her consciousness
        > in a positive way! Klemp frightened her and it was
        > perverted on Klemp's part! HK's deluded to think he's
        > above Spiritual Laws or Criminal and Civil Laws!
        > Klemp was a 2nd initiate, then, and a deluded wannabe
        > that planned to position himself within the EK org.,
        > kept a low-profile, and learned how to "play the
        > game."
        >
        > Can there be a negative God-Realization experience?
        > HK justifies his actions by stating there can be. "God-
        > Realization may span a profoundly beautiful experience
        > to the RUTHLESS tearing away of one's final illusions
        > (pg. 126)."
        >
        > So, a negative "tearing away of one's final illusions"
        > Caused the deluded Klemp to imagine the bridge tender
        > to be an ECK Master, then jump off a bridge and to
        > disrobe at the airport. However, this (according to him)
        > was Cause and Effect and Karma is Lower World and,
        > therefore, this cannot be the result of a God-Realized
        > experience! However, this was just another 20/20
        > hindsight excuse (disclaimer) as well. Klemp's 19 year
        > later recount of events shows that he was both Manic
        > and Depressive.
        >
        > The events that unfolded were not necessarily due to
        > his seminar experience, but from his own delusional
        > view of reality. The seminar experience just acted as
        > a catalyst and magnified Klemp's emotional and anti-
        > social disharmony and psychological imbalance. This
        > imbalance (according to Klemp) was the result of the
        > ECK power associated with a God-Realization experience.
        >
        > Therefore, Klemp decided to share and "redirect this
        > God energy" at work. This led to chaos! Klemp mentions
        > (THREE times on pg. 116) that he was being a Black Magician!
        > "While bedlam reigned, I behaved like a perfect angel (pg.118)."
        >
        > Klemp, also, admits (pg. 118) that he "had breached the
        > spiritual Law of Noninterference." However, he's violated
        > this Law and others on many occasions! If a 14th Initiate
        > and right hand of the SUGMAD can do this then what hope
        > does any other ECKist have?! In Truth, ECKists are in the
        > same boat with every other religious believer!
        >
        > Isn't it interesting that early-on Klemp's (white-haired?)
        > landlady "warned him against late baths" (pg.111). Was
        > this a prophecy?
        >
        > Anyway, I'm visualizing Klemp dragging himself out of
        > the river (after his jump from the bridge), sneaking into
        > the boarding house to change his clothes, going to the
        > airport with, still, wet hair and a wild look in his eyes,
        > and then making an unreported stop in the Women's
        > Restroom to shout "I declare this restroom to be Unisex!"
        > and then going to the terminal to disrobe! LOL!
        >
        > Klemp's 2007 EWWS talk is "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
        > for all ECKists that still have some Common Sense left!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish, Well, Klemp didn t get out of the USAF until late 1968 and he was stationed in Maryland before his discharge so Grumpyman didn t see an ad H.K.
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 11, 2007
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          Hi Mish,
          Well, Klemp didn't get out of the USAF until
          late 1968 and he was stationed in Maryland
          before his discharge so Grumpyman didn't
          see an ad H.K. placed. However, H.K. was a
          Wisconsin EK rep. later in 1969-70.

          Maybe Grumpy already knew of this Appleton
          connection and this, ego factor, is what has led
          to her smugness. Or, if she didn't know of this
          she should have or else where's the Master's
          ability to connect with Chelas in the past, present,
          and future on the inner? Maybe she could just
          "imagine" whatever and embellish the rest! That's
          Really how Eckankar works anyway!

          In "Child" Klemp states, "... the Fifth Circle were
          looked upon almost as saints... just because a
          person carried the title of Mahdis, or Higher
          Initiate, it did Not presume he was above a
          spiritual fall." And, "from my viewpoint hypnosis
          was at odds with the ECK teachings (pgs.100-101)."
          But, today there are many ECKists that practice
          hypnosis! ECKists, basically, do and think what
          they want and "play the game" as Klemp did when
          it comes to getting that next initiation. That's why
          many former RESAs don't follow the Guidelines!
          They have nothing to lose as long as they pay that
          yearly membership donation! And, they know the
          7th is as far as they'll go with the Klemps in charge!

          Here's more "Golden-Tongued Wisdom" for ECKists.
          After the April 23-26 1970 Midwest EK Seminar Klemp
          was helping a female ECKist carry some bags and
          someone made a negative remark to Klemp. Klemp
          was "in a crouch. His eyes are bright and shining as
          he [HK] asks in a low, controlled voice 'What did you
          say?' The hick looks rugged and maybe a little crazy."
          [page 104]

          "Full of love, loneliness, and even a little smugness,
          I settled back into my seat for the long ride home."
          [HK, page 105]

          "Two classes of people in ECK, which might be found
          anywhere, include those who obey the letter of the
          law and those who live by the spirit of love."[HK,pg.107]

          How about those Guidelines? Obeying them is not even
          as important as obeying The Spiritual Laws!

          And, was invading the expected privacy and safety of a
          woman and frightening her in a Women's Restroom and
          stating, "Restrooms are Unisex" is a way in which Klemp
          practices the Spirit of Love? That's sick if it is!

          Prometheus


          mish wrote:
          >
          >
          > Re: Klemp's Imbalanced Actions Continue!
          >
          > Really good post, Prometheus!
          >
          > I find it interesting that Appleton, WI is a city close to
          > where Klemp grew up on the farm! It is especially of
          > interest since Cheryl G on HuChat has shared a bit of
          > her story on how she found eckankar.
          >
          > From HuChat,Cheryl shared:
          > "As to where I found Eckankar... it was a newspaper ad in
          > either '65 or '66, not sure anymore which it was. Paul was
          > giving a talk. I missed the talk, ending up the street at another
          > place to meet the man who had driven the car my mother died
          > in. I kept thinking about wanting to hear Paul speak, but instead
          > had to deal with the oddity of being moved to tears by the man
          > I had to deal with. In the end, I walked away forgiving him realizing
          > that somethings are destined to be what they are. I hung onto that
          > ad for decades! It was in my wallet, and every now and then I'd take
          > it out and wonder how Paul was. Then one day in 1979 in Appleton
          > WI, I was walking into the theatre where I worked, and saw an ECK
          > bumper sticker! I was elated!!! I went into work, all excited about it
          > and telling everyone in the office. Turned out that the social worker
          > who helped me staff our theatre with youth from local schools was
          > there, and it was his car! He gave the phone number for the book
          > lady and the rest is history! <smile>"
          >
          > I wonder if Cheryl had any idea how close she was to Klemp's
          > stomping grounds when she lived in Appleton? Is this where Klemp
          > jumped off the bridge? It would seem some sort of plaque regarding
          > that event would be appropriate--sort of like a shrine? Well, I don't
          > think Paducah KY lays claim to Twitchell either--LOL! However, if
          > Appleton is steeped in Klemp's early history, it would make a nice
          > tourist attraction for eckists traveling on their way to the temple
          > of eck! Appleton WI where it all began for the delusional Klemp and
          > also Cheryl G! LOL!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
          > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > It's interesting that Klemp doesn't mention
          > > his "God-Realization" experience that led him
          > > to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport,
          > > being Arrested, and sent to a Mental
          > > Institution (early 1970) in his 1980 book
          > > "The Wind Of Change."
          > >
          > > Instead, Klemp decides to do some damage
          > > control and reveal some of the "truth" about
          > > this incident (that is public record) in his
          > > 1989 book "Child in the Wilderness."
          > >
          > > So, 37 years later Klemp is once again Violating
          > > the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference by walking
          > > into a Women's Restroom and telling a startled
          > > White-Haired woman that "Restrooms are Unisex!"
          > >
          > > Klemp states on page 83 of "Child" that, "It is
          > > remarkable how strong the fear of God is drummed
          > > into people." It seems Klemp needs to reread the
          > > EK Shariyat because there are many threats about
          > > ECKists leaving the path!
          > >
          > > In April of 1970 Klemp got a job as a proofreader
          > > not far from the farm in the town of Appleton,
          > > Wisconsin and was able to attend the Midwest
          > > EK Seminar in Chicago. He had a room at a boarding
          > > house not far from his new job. Klemp states on page
          > > 91 that, "Her house was a haven for recluses that only
          > > wanted a bunk." "Ironically, my woeful surroundings
          > > did fit me like a glove: I was exactly where I belonged
          > > (pg.111)."
          > >
          > > I find it, also, ironic that Klemp says, "Above all,
          > > ECKANKAR is a path of Common Sense. The Mahanta
          > > never expects someone to be Erratic, nor to carry
          > > out any instructions without considering what
          > > Effect that Action might have upon others (pg. 98)."
          > >
          > > Does Klemp use Common Sense? Do his H.I.s use
          > > Common Sense? Isn't Klemp, still, Erratic after all
          > > these years?! Didn't his current "Actions" of going
          > > into that Women's Restroom and declaring "Restrooms
          > > Are Unisex" have a negative effect upon the White-
          > > Haired Lady? Sure! But he doesn't care... Klemp's
          > > still insane! It didn't "change" her consciousness
          > > in a positive way! Klemp frightened her and it was
          > > perverted on Klemp's part! HK's deluded to think he's
          > > above Spiritual Laws or Criminal and Civil Laws!
          > > Klemp was a 2nd initiate, then, and a deluded wannabe
          > > that planned to position himself within the EK org.,
          > > kept a low-profile, and learned how to "play the
          > > game."
          > >
          > > Can there be a negative God-Realization experience?
          > > HK justifies his actions by stating there can be. "God-
          > > Realization may span a profoundly beautiful experience
          > > to the RUTHLESS tearing away of one's final illusions
          > > (pg. 126)."
          > >
          > > So, a negative "tearing away of one's final illusions"
          > > Caused the deluded Klemp to imagine the bridge tender
          > > to be an ECK Master, then jump off a bridge and to
          > > disrobe at the airport. However, this (according to him)
          > > was Cause and Effect and Karma is Lower World and,
          > > therefore, this cannot be the result of a God-Realized
          > > experience! However, this was just another 20/20
          > > hindsight excuse (disclaimer) as well. Klemp's 19 year
          > > later recount of events shows that he was both Manic
          > > and Depressive.
          > >
          > > The events that unfolded were not necessarily due to
          > > his seminar experience, but from his own delusional
          > > view of reality. The seminar experience just acted as
          > > a catalyst and magnified Klemp's emotional and anti-
          > > social disharmony and psychological imbalance. This
          > > imbalance (according to Klemp) was the result of the
          > > ECK power associated with a God-Realization experience.
          > >
          > > Therefore, Klemp decided to share and "redirect this
          > > God energy" at work. This led to chaos! Klemp mentions
          > > (THREE times on pg. 116) that he was being a Black Magician!
          > > "While bedlam reigned, I behaved like a perfect angel (pg.118)."
          > >
          > > Klemp, also, admits (pg. 118) that he "had breached the
          > > spiritual Law of Noninterference." However, he's violated
          > > this Law and others on many occasions! If a 14th Initiate
          > > and right hand of the SUGMAD can do this then what hope
          > > does any other ECKist have?! In Truth, ECKists are in the
          > > same boat with every other religious believer!
          > >
          > > Isn't it interesting that early-on Klemp's (white-haired?)
          > > landlady "warned him against late baths" (pg.111). Was
          > > this a prophecy?
          > >
          > > Anyway, I'm visualizing Klemp dragging himself out of
          > > the river (after his jump from the bridge), sneaking into
          > > the boarding house to change his clothes, going to the
          > > airport with, still, wet hair and a wild look in his eyes,
          > > and then making an unreported stop in the Women's
          > > Restroom to shout "I declare this restroom to be Unisex!"
          > > and then going to the terminal to disrobe! LOL!
          > >
          > > Klemp's 2007 EWWS talk is "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
          > > for all ECKists that still have some Common Sense left!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Yes, it doesn t take much research to find a bunch of Harry s relatives and family history in this small area of Wisconsin! BTW - I saw where HK, this Crazy
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 13, 2007
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            Yes, it doesn't take much research to find a bunch
            of Harry's relatives and family history in this small
            area of Wisconsin!

            BTW - I saw where HK, this "Crazy Hick" (Child,
            pg.104), and "Black Magician" (Child, pg.116) liked
            to be called "Harry" at one time. [Wind of Change,
            pg.40]

            In "Child" Klemp states, "In my state of imbalance,
            I thought: The Mahanta is in everybody..." (pg.138)

            ME: Don't most ECKists, who believe in Soul=Soul,
            think the same! I guess it's Not true according to
            HK! Bummer!

            HK: "How did I expect to give my money away and yet
            expect to buy a ticket to Las Vegas? A detail like that
            was of no concern: it could be dealt with later.

            In this Odd Frame of Mind, I Supposed I was Living in
            the Moment. Actually, it was a Distortion of the Truth.

            Today as I watch others demand the Right to do as
            they please, it is plain how selfish their so-called acts
            of freedom really are.

            Actions done in the name of freedom but Without Regard
            for the Rights of Others are Purely Selfish. This was but
            one Ugly Potential I Was To See in Myself and others
            through This String of Erratic Deeds." [Child, pgs. 168-169]

            ME: And isn't Klemp doing the same after all these years!
            In his own words, concerning the Women's Restroom Unisex
            incident by interfering with the rights and consciousness
            of the White-Haired Lady. Klemp stated in this 1989 copyright
            of "Child" that it was wrong to disregard the "Rights of Others"
            (in the airport in 1970) and that this was "Selfish!" And, this
            is an Ugly Potential (then and today) that "I was to see in myself"
            via "this string of erratic deeds" which was true for 1970, and
            in 1989, and this is still true today... isn't it? It should be!

            Therefore, this is more "Golden-Tongued Wisdom" for ECKists
            to look at. The initiations and promises of Eckankar are fake!
            Be your own Master and come into Unity with the ECK (SPIRIT)
            on your own without a go-between that requires a yearly
            donation in order to live in Eden Prairie, WI. tax free and with
            all kinds of other perks! It's not right! Too bad ECKists can't
            complain due to the Law of Silence!

            BTW - Why can't the LEM/Mahanta hold his bladder or plan
            his restrooms trips better? What's with that! Enlarged prostate?
            Where's HK's ability of prophecy... regarding locked restrooms?
            What happened to his patience? Why didn't he just HUuuuuuuu
            until the men's restroom became vacant? Anyway, I'm sure that
            there are ECKists asking the same thing... just not too loudly
            or in Satsangs!


            Prometheus

            mish wrote:
            >
            >
            > Re: Klemp's Imbalanced Actions Continue!
            >
            > Really good post, Prometheus!
            >
            > I find it interesting that Appleton, WI is a city close to
            > where Klemp grew up on the farm! It is especially of
            > interest since Cheryl G on HuChat has shared a bit of
            > her story on how she found eckankar.
            >
            > From HU-Chat Cheryl shared:

            > "As to where I found Eckankar... it was a newspaper ad in
            > either '65 or '66, not sure anymore which it was. Paul was
            > giving a talk. I missed the talk, ending up the street at another
            > place to meet the man who had driven the car my mother died
            > in. I kept thinking about wanting to hear Paul speak, but instead
            > had to deal with the oddity of being moved to tears by the man
            > I had to deal with. In the end, I walked away forgiving him realizing
            > that somethings are destined to be what they are. I hung onto that
            > ad for decades! It was in my wallet, and every now and then I'd take
            > it out and wonder how Paul was. Then one day in 1979 in Appleton
            > WI, I was walking into the theatre where I worked, and saw an ECK
            > bumper sticker! I was elated!!! I went into work, all excited about it
            > and telling everyone in the office. Turned out that the social worker
            > who helped me staff our theatre with youth from local schools was
            > there, and it was his car! He gave the phone number for the book
            > lady and the rest is history! <smile>"
            >
            > I wonder if Cheryl had any idea how close she was to Klemp's
            > stomping grounds when she lived in Appleton? Is this where Klemp
            > jumped off the bridge? It would seem some sort of plaque regarding
            > that event would be appropriate--sort of like a shrine? Well, I don't
            > think Paducah KY lays claim to Twitchell either--LOL! However, if
            > Appleton is steeped in Klemp's early history, it would make a nice
            > tourist attraction for eckists traveling on their way to the temple
            > of eck! Appleton WI where it all began for the delusional Klemp and
            > also Cheryl G! LOL!
            >
            > Mish
            >
            >

            > "prometheus_wrote:
            > >
            > > It's interesting that Klemp doesn't mention
            > > his "God-Realization" experience that led him
            > > to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport,
            > > being Arrested, and sent to a Mental
            > > Institution (early 1970) in his 1980 book
            > > "The Wind Of Change."
            > >
            > > Instead, Klemp decides to do some damage
            > > control and reveal some of the "truth" about
            > > this incident (that is public record) in his
            > > 1989 book "Child in the Wilderness."
            > >
            > > So, 37 years later Klemp is once again Violating
            > > the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference by walking
            > > into a Women's Restroom and telling a startled
            > > White-Haired woman that "Restrooms are Unisex!"
            > >
            > > Klemp states on page 83 of "Child" that, "It is
            > > remarkable how strong the fear of God is drummed
            > > into people." It seems Klemp needs to reread the
            > > EK Shariyat because there are many threats about
            > > ECKists leaving the path!
            > >
            > > In April of 1970 Klemp got a job as a proofreader
            > > not far from the farm in the town of Appleton,
            > > Wisconsin and was able to attend the Midwest
            > > EK Seminar in Chicago. He had a room at a boarding
            > > house not far from his new job. Klemp states on page
            > > 91 that, "Her house was a haven for recluses that only
            > > wanted a bunk." "Ironically, my woeful surroundings
            > > did fit me like a glove: I was exactly where I belonged
            > > (pg.111)."
            > >
            > > I find it, also, ironic that Klemp says, "Above all,
            > > ECKANKAR is a path of Common Sense. The Mahanta
            > > never expects someone to be Erratic, nor to carry
            > > out any instructions without considering what
            > > Effect that Action might have upon others (pg. 98)."
            > >
            > > Does Klemp use Common Sense? Do his H.I.s use
            > > Common Sense? Isn't Klemp, still, Erratic after all
            > > these years?! Didn't his current "Actions" of going
            > > into that Women's Restroom and declaring "Restrooms
            > > Are Unisex" have a negative effect upon the White-
            > > Haired Lady? Sure! But he doesn't care... Klemp's
            > > still insane! It didn't "change" her consciousness
            > > in a positive way! Klemp frightened her and it was
            > > perverted on Klemp's part! HK's deluded to think he's
            > > above Spiritual Laws or Criminal and Civil Laws!
            > > Klemp was a 2nd initiate, then, and a deluded wannabe
            > > that planned to position himself within the EK org.,
            > > kept a low-profile, and learned how to "play the
            > > game."
            > >
            > > Can there be a negative God-Realization experience?
            > > HK justifies his actions by stating there can be. "God-
            > > Realization may span a profoundly beautiful experience
            > > to the RUTHLESS tearing away of one's final illusions
            > > (pg. 126)."
            > >
            > > So, a negative "tearing away of one's final illusions"
            > > Caused the deluded Klemp to imagine the bridge tender
            > > to be an ECK Master, then jump off a bridge and to
            > > disrobe at the airport. However, this (according to him)
            > > was Cause and Effect and Karma is Lower World and,
            > > therefore, this cannot be the result of a God-Realized
            > > experience! However, this was just another 20/20
            > > hindsight excuse (disclaimer) as well. Klemp's 19 year
            > > later recount of events shows that he was both Manic
            > > and Depressive.
            > >
            > > The events that unfolded were not necessarily due to
            > > his seminar experience, but from his own delusional
            > > view of reality. The seminar experience just acted as
            > > a catalyst and magnified Klemp's emotional and anti-
            > > social disharmony and psychological imbalance. This
            > > imbalance (according to Klemp) was the result of the
            > > ECK power associated with a God-Realization experience.
            > >
            > > Therefore, Klemp decided to share and "redirect this
            > > God energy" at work. This led to chaos! Klemp mentions
            > > (THREE times on pg. 116) that he was being a Black Magician!
            > > "While bedlam reigned, I behaved like a perfect angel (pg.118)."
            > >
            > > Klemp, also, admits (pg. 118) that he "had breached the
            > > spiritual Law of Noninterference." However, he's violated
            > > this Law and others on many occasions! If a 14th Initiate
            > > and right hand of the SUGMAD can do this then what hope
            > > does any other ECKist have?! In Truth, ECKists are in the
            > > same boat with every other religious believer!
            > >
            > > Isn't it interesting that early-on Klemp's (white-haired?)
            > > landlady "warned him against late baths" (pg.111). Was
            > > this a prophecy?
            > >
            > > Anyway, I'm visualizing Klemp dragging himself out of
            > > the river (after his jump from the bridge), sneaking into
            > > the boarding house to change his clothes, going to the
            > > airport with, still, wet hair and a wild look in his eyes,
            > > and then making an unreported stop in the Women's
            > > Restroom to shout "I declare this restroom to be Unisex!"
            > > and then going to the terminal to disrobe! LOL!
            > >
            > > Klemp's 2007 EWWS talk is "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
            > > for all ECKists that still have some Common Sense left!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            >
          • mishmisha9
            Re: Appleton WI, Where It All Began for Klemp? I wonder why Klemp was unable to convert his mother to eckankar--she remained a member of the family Lutheran
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 14, 2007
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              Re: Appleton WI, Where It All Began for Klemp?

              I wonder why Klemp was unable to convert his mother to
              eckankar--she remained a member of the family Lutheran
              faith until she died at age 93. It would seem that if Klemp
              was truly a godman and all that he claims to be--that instead
              of changing the consciousness of some stranger (white haired
              woman in public restroom), he would have influenced his
              mother and connected her to the blue light. There are a lot
              of Klemps related to Harold, his brothers, sister and their
              families plus all the cousins and their families. I wonder if
              any of them joined eckankar? If they did, one would think
              they'd be noticed--as in getting some of the financial
              benefits of the org's bank accounts! As far as I can tell
              right now, there is only Harold and his wife Joan and his
              ex-wife Marge who feed on this slop. His daughter, I have
              heard, is not an eckist. LOL!

              Mish

              p.s. If anyone would like to find Harold out in the public, I
              guess the shopping mall in Eden Prairie MN would be the
              place to look first--check the women's public restrooms
              for a skinny, pretentious and delusional madman, behaving
              inappropriately. Of course, Joan would most likely be found
              (not far from Harold) in the men's restroom--what a match
              they are! : )


              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Yes, it doesn't take much research to find a bunch
              > > of Harry's relatives and family history in this small
              > > area of Wisconsin!
              > >
              > > BTW - I saw where HK, this "Crazy Hick" (Child,
              > > pg.104), and "Black Magician" (Child, pg.116) liked
              > > to be called "Harry" at one time. [Wind of Change,
              > > pg.40]
              > >
              > > In "Child" Klemp states, "In my state of imbalance,
              > > I thought: The Mahanta is in everybody..." (pg.138)
              > >
              > > ME: Don't most ECKists, who believe in Soul=Soul,
              > > think the same! I guess it's Not true according to
              > > HK! Bummer!
              > >
              > > HK: "How did I expect to give my money away and yet
              > > expect to buy a ticket to Las Vegas? A detail like that
              > > was of no concern: it could be dealt with later.
              > >
              > > In this Odd Frame of Mind, I Supposed I was Living in
              > > the Moment. Actually, it was a Distortion of the Truth.
              > >
              > > Today as I watch others demand the Right to do as
              > > they please, it is plain how selfish their so-called acts
              > > of freedom really are.
              > >
              > > Actions done in the name of freedom but Without Regard
              > > for the Rights of Others are Purely Selfish. This was but
              > > one Ugly Potential I Was To See in Myself and others
              > > through This String of Erratic Deeds." [Child, pgs. 168-169]
              > >
              > > ME: And isn't Klemp doing the same after all these years!
              > > In his own words, concerning the Women's Restroom Unisex
              > > incident by interfering with the rights and consciousness
              > > of the White-Haired Lady. Klemp stated in this 1989 copyright
              > > of "Child" that it was wrong to disregard the "Rights of Others"
              > > (in the airport in 1970) and that this was "Selfish!" And, this
              > > is an Ugly Potential (then and today) that "I was to see in myself"
              > > via "this string of erratic deeds" which was true for 1970, and
              > > in 1989, and this is still true today... isn't it? It should be!
              > >
              > > Therefore, this is more "Golden-Tongued Wisdom" for ECKists
              > > to look at. The initiations and promises of Eckankar are fake!
              > > Be your own Master and come into Unity with the ECK (SPIRIT)
              > > on your own without a go-between that requires a yearly
              > > donation in order to live in Eden Prairie, WI. tax free and with
              > > all kinds of other perks! It's not right! Too bad ECKists can't
              > > complain due to the Law of Silence!
              > >
              > > BTW - Why can't the LEM/Mahanta hold his bladder or plan
              > > his restrooms trips better? What's with that! Enlarged prostate?
              > > Where's HK's ability of prophecy... regarding locked restrooms?
              > > What happened to his patience? Why didn't he just HUuuuuuuu
              > > until the men's restroom became vacant? Anyway, I'm sure that
              > > there are ECKists asking the same thing... just not too loudly
              > > or in Satsangs!
              > >
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > mish wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Re: Klemp's Imbalanced Actions Continue!
              > > >
              > > > Really good post, Prometheus!
              > > >
              > > > I find it interesting that Appleton, WI is a city close to
              > > > where Klemp grew up on the farm! It is especially of
              > > > interest since Cheryl G on HuChat has shared a bit of
              > > > her story on how she found eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > From HU-Chat Cheryl shared:
              > >
              > > > "As to where I found Eckankar... it was a newspaper ad in
              > > > either '65 or '66, not sure anymore which it was. Paul was
              > > > giving a talk. I missed the talk, ending up the street at another
              > > > place to meet the man who had driven the car my mother died
              > > > in. I kept thinking about wanting to hear Paul speak, but instead
              > > > had to deal with the oddity of being moved to tears by the man
              > > > I had to deal with. In the end, I walked away forgiving him realizing
              > > > that somethings are destined to be what they are. I hung onto that
              > > > ad for decades! It was in my wallet, and every now and then I'd take
              > > > it out and wonder how Paul was. Then one day in 1979 in Appleton
              > > > WI, I was walking into the theatre where I worked, and saw an ECK
              > > > bumper sticker! I was elated!!! I went into work, all excited about it
              > > > and telling everyone in the office. Turned out that the social worker
              > > > who helped me staff our theatre with youth from local schools was
              > > > there, and it was his car! He gave the phone number for the book
              > > > lady and the rest is history! <smile>"
              > > >
              > > > I wonder if Cheryl had any idea how close she was to Klemp's
              > > > stomping grounds when she lived in Appleton? Is this where Klemp
              > > > jumped off the bridge? It would seem some sort of plaque regarding
              > > > that event would be appropriate--sort of like a shrine? Well, I don't
              > > > think Paducah KY lays claim to Twitchell either--LOL! However, if
              > > > Appleton is steeped in Klemp's early history, it would make a nice
              > > > tourist attraction for eckists traveling on their way to the temple
              > > > of eck! Appleton WI where it all began for the delusional Klemp and
              > > > also Cheryl G! LOL!
              > > >
              > > > Mish
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > > "prometheus_wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > It's interesting that Klemp doesn't mention
              > > > > his "God-Realization" experience that led him
              > > > > to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport,
              > > > > being Arrested, and sent to a Mental
              > > > > Institution (early 1970) in his 1980 book
              > > > > "The Wind Of Change."
              > > > >
              > > > > Instead, Klemp decides to do some damage
              > > > > control and reveal some of the "truth" about
              > > > > this incident (that is public record) in his
              > > > > 1989 book "Child in the Wilderness."
              > > > >
              > > > > So, 37 years later Klemp is once again Violating
              > > > > the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference by walking
              > > > > into a Women's Restroom and telling a startled
              > > > > White-Haired woman that "Restrooms are Unisex!"
              > > > >
              > > > > Klemp states on page 83 of "Child" that, "It is
              > > > > remarkable how strong the fear of God is drummed
              > > > > into people." It seems Klemp needs to reread the
              > > > > EK Shariyat because there are many threats about
              > > > > ECKists leaving the path!
              > > > >
              > > > > In April of 1970 Klemp got a job as a proofreader
              > > > > not far from the farm in the town of Appleton,
              > > > > Wisconsin and was able to attend the Midwest
              > > > > EK Seminar in Chicago. He had a room at a boarding
              > > > > house not far from his new job. Klemp states on page
              > > > > 91 that, "Her house was a haven for recluses that only
              > > > > wanted a bunk." "Ironically, my woeful surroundings
              > > > > did fit me like a glove: I was exactly where I belonged
              > > > > (pg.111)."
              > > > >
              > > > > I find it, also, ironic that Klemp says, "Above all,
              > > > > ECKANKAR is a path of Common Sense. The Mahanta
              > > > > never expects someone to be Erratic, nor to carry
              > > > > out any instructions without considering what
              > > > > Effect that Action might have upon others (pg. 98)."
              > > > >
              > > > > Does Klemp use Common Sense? Do his H.I.s use
              > > > > Common Sense? Isn't Klemp, still, Erratic after all
              > > > > these years?! Didn't his current "Actions" of going
              > > > > into that Women's Restroom and declaring "Restrooms
              > > > > Are Unisex" have a negative effect upon the White-
              > > > > Haired Lady? Sure! But he doesn't care... Klemp's
              > > > > still insane! It didn't "change" her consciousness
              > > > > in a positive way! Klemp frightened her and it was
              > > > > perverted on Klemp's part! HK's deluded to think he's
              > > > > above Spiritual Laws or Criminal and Civil Laws!
              > > > > Klemp was a 2nd initiate, then, and a deluded wannabe
              > > > > that planned to position himself within the EK org.,
              > > > > kept a low-profile, and learned how to "play the
              > > > > game."
              > > > >
              > > > > Can there be a negative God-Realization experience?
              > > > > HK justifies his actions by stating there can be. "God-
              > > > > Realization may span a profoundly beautiful experience
              > > > > to the RUTHLESS tearing away of one's final illusions
              > > > > (pg. 126)."
              > > > >
              > > > > So, a negative "tearing away of one's final illusions"
              > > > > Caused the deluded Klemp to imagine the bridge tender
              > > > > to be an ECK Master, then jump off a bridge and to
              > > > > disrobe at the airport. However, this (according to him)
              > > > > was Cause and Effect and Karma is Lower World and,
              > > > > therefore, this cannot be the result of a God-Realized
              > > > > experience! However, this was just another 20/20
              > > > > hindsight excuse (disclaimer) as well. Klemp's 19 year
              > > > > later recount of events shows that he was both Manic
              > > > > and Depressive.
              > > > >
              > > > > The events that unfolded were not necessarily due to
              > > > > his seminar experience, but from his own delusional
              > > > > view of reality. The seminar experience just acted as
              > > > > a catalyst and magnified Klemp's emotional and anti-
              > > > > social disharmony and psychological imbalance. This
              > > > > imbalance (according to Klemp) was the result of the
              > > > > ECK power associated with a God-Realization experience.
              > > > >
              > > > > Therefore, Klemp decided to share and "redirect this
              > > > > God energy" at work. This led to chaos! Klemp mentions
              > > > > (THREE times on pg. 116) that he was being a Black Magician!
              > > > > "While bedlam reigned, I behaved like a perfect angel (pg.118)."
              > > > >
              > > > > Klemp, also, admits (pg. 118) that he "had breached the
              > > > > spiritual Law of Noninterference." However, he's violated
              > > > > this Law and others on many occasions! If a 14th Initiate
              > > > > and right hand of the SUGMAD can do this then what hope
              > > > > does any other ECKist have?! In Truth, ECKists are in the
              > > > > same boat with every other religious believer!
              > > > >
              > > > > Isn't it interesting that early-on Klemp's (white-haired?)
              > > > > landlady "warned him against late baths" (pg.111). Was
              > > > > this a prophecy?
              > > > >
              > > > > Anyway, I'm visualizing Klemp dragging himself out of
              > > > > the river (after his jump from the bridge), sneaking into
              > > > > the boarding house to change his clothes, going to the
              > > > > airport with, still, wet hair and a wild look in his eyes,
              > > > > and then making an unreported stop in the Women's
              > > > > Restroom to shout "I declare this restroom to be Unisex!"
              > > > > and then going to the terminal to disrobe! LOL!
              > > > >
              > > > > Klemp's 2007 EWWS talk is "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
              > > > > for all ECKists that still have some Common Sense left!
              > > > >
              > > > > Prometheus
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Mish, I wonder if H.J.K. attended his Mother s funeral with Joan and Marge in 2005? HK chose Not to attend his Father s funeral by quoting Jesus let the
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 14, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Mish,
                I wonder if H.J.K. attended his Mother's funeral with
                Joan and Marge in 2005? HK chose Not to attend his
                Father's funeral by quoting Jesus "let the dead bury
                the dead" (HK's Autobiography, pg. 320) when his father
                died Oct. 17, 1971 (exactly one month after PT).

                Harold felt he had to attend the 1971 EWWS, instead,
                and to be with his fellow Black Magician and new Master
                Darwin Gross! Or, did Harry think that his Black Magic
                (Child, pg. 116) was stronger than Darwin's and that
                he might be chosen to replace P.T. at that time? [He,
                too, should have dated Gail on the sly!]

                Remember, too, in 1980 and 1981 Klemp met with Gross
                where Klemp worked daily, at the ESC, "in a Sound
                Proof Dark Room" (CH7, Soul Travelers of the Far Country)
                to plan Klemp's transition into the LEM position. Is this
                a "coincidence" that Klemp worked in a room that was
                absent of both LIGHT (dark room) and SOUND (sound proof)!

                BTW- I wonder if Harry's daughter and her husband flew
                out to her Grandmother's funeral? I heard that Marge said
                that neither were ECKists, but her son-in-law was very
                "spiritual." Why hasn't Klemp "Changed" their consciousness
                and turned them toward Eckankar? Maybe he has "changed"
                their consciousness, but Not in a positive way and that's why
                they and his sister live Very Far Away from Eden Prairie, MN.!

                However, as I said before, Klemp only stated in his
                "Change is Change" talk that he "changed" the consciousness
                of the White-Haired Woman in the Women's Restroom by
                interfering with her right to privacy and stating,
                "Restrooms are Unisex!"

                Maybe Mall Security should be given a picture of Klemp!
                If he's arrested, again, will he claimed that his imbalance
                was due to a God-Realization experience, or say that it was
                due to karma or to something else... like forcing change
                onto a person's consciousness and, once again, refuse to see
                the Truth, or to take responsibility for his own unstable actions!

                ECKists Should Note: Klemp Never Claimed that he "RAISED"
                the White-Haired Lady's Consciousness, or that this "change"
                had a Positive Effect upon her! CATCH-22! This is typical
                double-speak by KAL agents and Black Magicians!

                Yep! If ECKists want to bump into their God/man Klemp
                they need to hang out in EDEN PRAIRIE, MN.! Maybe go
                to the mall, or to the natural foods grocery/vitamin store,
                or to a chiropractor there! Does Joan shop at Talbots?
                Are there any arcades? I'll bet Harry has his own private
                arcade and a Ms. PacMan in each of his villas including
                the one in Tampa, FL.!

                Prometheus

                mishmisha wrote:
                >
                >
                > Re: Appleton WI, Where It All Began for Klemp?
                >
                > I wonder why Klemp was unable to convert his mother to
                > eckankar--she remained a member of the family Lutheran
                > faith until she died at age 93. It would seem that if Klemp
                > was truly a godman and all that he claims to be--that instead
                > of changing the consciousness of some stranger (white haired
                > woman in public restroom), he would have influenced his
                > mother and connected her to the blue light. There are a lot
                > of Klemps related to Harold, his brothers, sister and their
                > families plus all the cousins and their families. I wonder if
                > any of them joined eckankar? If they did, one would think
                > they'd be noticed--as in getting some of the financial
                > benefits of the org's bank accounts! As far as I can tell
                > right now, there is only Harold and his wife Joan and his
                > ex-wife Marge who feed on this slop. His daughter, I have
                > heard, is not an eckist. LOL!
                >
                > Mish
                >
                > p.s. If anyone would like to find Harold out in the public, I
                > guess the shopping mall in Eden Prairie MN would be the
                > place to look first--check the women's public restrooms
                > for a skinny, pretentious and delusional madman, behaving
                > inappropriately. Of course, Joan would most likely be found
                > (not far from Harold) in the men's restroom--what a match
                > they are! : )

                Prometheus wrote:

                Yes, it doesn't take much research to find a bunch
                of Harry's relatives and family history in this small
                area of Wisconsin!

                BTW - I saw where HK, this "Crazy Hick" (Child in
                the Wilderness, pg.104), and "Black Magician"
                [stated Three times (Child, pg.116)] liked to be
                called "Harry" at one time. [Wind of Change, pg.40]

                In "Child" Klemp states:

                "In my state of imbalance, I thought: The Mahanta
                is in everybody..." (pg.138)

                ME: Don't most ECKists, who believe in Soul=Soul,
                think the same! I guess it's Not true according to
                HK! Bummer! Or, is H.J.K. wrong and is still being
                delusional?!

                HK: "How did I expect to give my money away and yet
                expect to buy a ticket to Las Vegas? A detail like that
                was of no concern: it could be dealt with later.

                In this Odd Frame of Mind, I Supposed I was Living in
                the Moment. Actually, it was a Distortion of the Truth.

                Today as I watch others demand the Right to do as
                they please, it is plain how selfish their so-called acts
                of freedom really are.

                Actions done in the name of freedom but Without Regard
                for the Rights of Others are Purely Selfish. This was but
                one Ugly Potential I Was To See in Myself and others
                through This String of Erratic Deeds." [Child, pgs. 168-169]

                ME: And isn't Klemp doing the same after all these years!
                In his own words, concerning the Women's Restroom Unisex
                incident by interfering with the rights and consciousness
                of the White-Haired Lady. Klemp stated in this 1989 copyright
                of "Child" that it was wrong to disregard the "Rights of Others"
                (in the airport in 1970) and that this was "Selfish!" And, this
                is an Ugly Potential (then and today) that "I was to see in myself"
                via "this string of erratic deeds" which was true for 1970, and
                in 1989, and this is still true today... isn't it? It should be!

                Therefore, this is more "Golden-Tongued Wisdom" for ECKists
                to look at. The initiations and promises of Eckankar are fake!
                Be your own Master and come into Unity with the ECK (SPIRIT)
                on your own without a go-between that requires a yearly
                donation in order to live in Eden Prairie, MN. tax free and with
                all kinds of other perks! It's not right! Too bad ECKists can't
                complain due to the Law of Silence!

                BTW - Why can't the LEM/Mahanta hold his bladder or plan
                his restrooms trips better? What's with that! Enlarged prostate?
                Where's HK's ability of prophecy... regarding locked restrooms?
                What happened to his patience? Why didn't he just HUuuuuuuu
                until the men's restroom became vacant? Anyway, I'm sure that
                there are ECKists asking the same thing... just not too loudly
                or in Satsangs!


                Prometheus
                > > >
                mish wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                Re: Klemp's Imbalanced Actions Continue!
                > > > >
                Really good post, Prometheus!
                > > > >
                I find it interesting that Appleton, WI is a city close to
                where Klemp grew up on the farm! It is especially of
                interest since Cheryl G on HuChat has shared a bit of
                her story on how she found eckankar.
                > > > >
                From HU-Chat Cheryl shared:
                > > >
                "As to where I found Eckankar... it was a newspaper ad in
                either '65 or '66, not sure anymore which it was. Paul was
                giving a talk. I missed the talk, ending up the street at another
                place to meet the man who had driven the car my mother died
                in. I kept thinking about wanting to hear Paul speak, but instead
                had to deal with the oddity of being moved to tears by the man
                I had to deal with. In the end, I walked away forgiving him realizing
                that somethings are destined to be what they are. I hung onto that
                ad for decades! It was in my wallet, and every now and then I'd take
                it out and wonder how Paul was. Then one day in 1979 in Appleton
                WI, I was walking into the theatre where I worked, and saw an ECK
                bumper sticker! I was elated!!! I went into work, all excited about it
                and telling everyone in the office. Turned out that the social worker
                who helped me staff our theatre with youth from local schools was
                there, and it was his car! He gave the phone number for the book
                lady and the rest is history! <smile>"
                > > > >

                I wonder if Cheryl had any idea how close she was to Klemp's
                stomping grounds when she lived in Appleton? Is this where Klemp
                jumped off the bridge? It would seem some sort of plaque regarding
                that event would be appropriate--sort of like a shrine? Well, I don't
                think Paducah KY lays claim to Twitchell either--LOL! However, if
                Appleton is steeped in Klemp's early history, it would make a nice
                tourist attraction for eckists traveling on their way to the temple
                of eck! Appleton WI where it all began for the delusional Klemp and
                also Cheryl G! LOL!
                > > > >
                Mish
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                "prometheus_wrote:
                > > > > >
                It's interesting that Klemp doesn't mention
                his "God-Realization" experience that led him
                to Jump off a Bridge, Disrobe at an Airport,
                being Arrested, and sent to a Mental
                Institution (early 1970) in his 1980 book
                "The Wind Of Change."
                > > > > >
                Instead, Klemp decides to do some damage
                control and reveal some of the "truth" about
                this incident (that is public record) in his
                1989 book "Child in the Wilderness."
                > > > > >
                So, 37 years later Klemp is once again Violating
                the Spiritual Law of Non-Interference by walking
                into a Women's Restroom and telling a startled
                White-Haired woman that "Restrooms are Unisex!"
                > > > > >
                Klemp states on page 83 of "Child" that, "It is
                remarkable how strong the fear of God is drummed
                into people." It seems Klemp needs to reread the
                EK Shariyat because there are many threats about
                ECKists leaving the path!
                > > > > >
                In April of 1970 Klemp got a job as a proofreader
                not far from the farm in the town of Appleton,
                Wisconsin and was able to attend the Midwest
                EK Seminar in Chicago. He had a room at a boarding
                house not far from his new job. Klemp states on page
                91 that, "Her house was a haven for recluses that only
                wanted a bunk." "Ironically, my woeful surroundings
                did fit me like a glove: I was exactly where I belonged
                (pg.111)."
                > > > > >
                I find it, also, ironic that Klemp says, "Above all,
                ECKANKAR is a path of Common Sense. The Mahanta
                never expects someone to be Erratic, nor to carry
                out any instructions without considering what
                Effect that Action might have upon others (pg. 98)."
                > > > > >
                Does Klemp use Common Sense? Do his H.I.s use
                Common Sense? Isn't Klemp, still, Erratic after all
                these years?! Didn't his current "Actions" of going
                into that Women's Restroom and declaring "Restrooms
                Are Unisex" have a negative effect upon the White-
                Haired Lady? Sure! But he doesn't care... Klemp's
                still insane! It didn't "change" her consciousness
                in a positive way! Klemp frightened her and it was
                perverted on Klemp's part! HK's deluded to think he's
                above Spiritual Laws or Criminal and Civil Laws!
                Klemp was a 2nd initiate, then, and a deluded wannabe
                that planned to position himself within the EK org.,
                kept a low-profile, and learned how to "play the
                game."
                > > > > >
                Can there be a negative God-Realization experience?
                HK justifies his actions by stating there can be. "God-
                Realization may span a profoundly beautiful experience
                to the RUTHLESS tearing away of one's final illusions
                (pg. 126)."
                > > > > >
                So, a negative "tearing away of one's final illusions"
                Caused the deluded Klemp to imagine the bridge tender
                to be an ECK Master, then jump off a bridge and to
                disrobe at the airport. However, this (according to him)
                was Cause and Effect and Karma is Lower World and,
                therefore, this cannot be the result of a God-Realized
                experience! However, this was just another 20/20
                hindsight excuse (disclaimer) as well. Klemp's 19 year
                later recount of events shows that he was both Manic
                and Depressive.
                > > > > >
                The events that unfolded were not necessarily due to
                his seminar experience, but from his own delusional
                view of reality. The seminar experience just acted as
                a catalyst and magnified Klemp's emotional and anti-
                social disharmony and psychological imbalance. This
                imbalance (according to Klemp) was the result of the
                ECK power associated with a God-Realization experience.
                > > > > >
                Therefore, Klemp decided to share and "redirect this
                God energy" at work. This led to chaos! Klemp mentions
                (THREE TIMES on pg. 116) that he was being a Black Magician!
                "While bedlam reigned, I behaved like a perfect angel (pg.118)."

                [HOW, THEN, CAN HJK CLAIM THAT THIS WAS GOD-REALIZATION!]

                Klemp, also, admits (pg. 118) that he "had breached the
                spiritual Law of Noninterference." However, he's violated
                this Law and others on many occasions! If a 14th Initiate
                and right hand of the SUGMAD can do this then what hope
                does any other ECKist have?! In Truth, ECKists are in the
                same boat with every other religious believer!
                > > > > >
                Isn't it interesting that early-on Klemp's (white-haired?)
                landlady "warned him against late baths" (pg.111). Was
                this a prophecy?
                > > > > >
                Anyway, I'm visualizing Klemp dragging himself out of
                the river (after his jump from the bridge), sneaking into
                the boarding house to change his clothes, going to the
                airport with, still, wet hair and a wild look in his eyes,
                and then making an unreported stop in the Women's
                Restroom to shout "I declare this restroom to be Unisex!"
                and then going to the terminal to disrobe! LOL!
                > > > > >
                Klemp's 2007 EWWS talk is "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
                for all ECKists that still have some Common Sense left!
                > > > > >
                Prometheus
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