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Klemp Creates a (Unisex) Restroom Miracle!

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  • prometheus_973
    Isn t it true that ECKists are told: A Miracle Is A Changed Consciousness? Klemp stated that he changed the White Haired Lady s Consciousness, therefore, he
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 10, 2007
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      Isn't it true that ECKists are told: A Miracle Is
      A Changed Consciousness? Klemp stated that he
      "changed" the White Haired Lady's Consciousness,
      therefore, he created A Miracle! If only she knew!

      Isn't it interesting that Klemp doesn't define "Miracle"
      in his Lexicon! WHY Not? HK defines "consciousness"
      but does Not mention "miracles" or "change!" Instead,
      Klemp mentions the "Dhyanic" and "ECK" consciousness
      (pg.32) but only defines Dhyan and Dhyana (pg.47)
      and Not the ECK Consciousness! Also, Dhyan and Dhyana
      only refers to seeing the LEM or Master on the Inner
      Planes versus seeing or meeting the Mahanta on the Inner!


      [BTW - I GOOGLED: A Miracle is a Changed Consciousness
      and found this (below). It's kind of interesting... WHY can't
      Klemp come up with something like this? Didn't Klemp (the
      LEM/Mahanta) get into the International Who's Who of
      Intellectuals via "writing" dozens of books (and paying a
      fee)? So, WHY didn't Klemp come up with a book like this
      instead of running into a Women's Restroom and declaring
      "Restrooms are Unisex!"]

      Prometheus

      *****************************************************
      Make Your Own Miracle

      Miracles don't happen to you; they happen through
      you. An astonishing new book, Shortcut to a Miracle,
      reveals how to get from where you are... to where
      you've barely dared to dream about going.

      Ever noticed how the things you want most seem a
      billion light years away? Perhaps you wait tables but
      dream of performing oon Broadway. Or you've tried
      to have a baby for years but pregnancy eludes you.
      Or you long to meet your Soul Mate but figure that
      at the age of 65, you're doomed to spend your (so-called)
      Golden Years alone. Whatever your "impossible dream"
      might be, reaching it would take a miracle. And since
      you don't believe in miracles--or at least you don't
      believe one's coming your way--you've pretty much
      resigned yourself to a life of back-breaking, low-paying
      work . . . or childlessness . . . or lonely bachhelorhood.

      Don't give up yet. Spiritual counselors Michael C. Rann
      and Elizabeth Rann Arrott say that not only is your miracle
      possible, it is your birthright. In their new book Shortcut
      to a Miracle: How to Change Your Consciousness and
      Transform Your Life (Jeffers Press, September 2005,
      ISBN: 0-9745776-8-5, $14.95), they build a convincing
      case that you can experience your own miracles by working
      with some astonishing natural principles that scientists
      are just beginning to understand.



      "Most people think that a miracle is an event that
      runs counter to the laws of nature and that is 'bestowed'
      from above," say Rann and Arrott. "That's misleading.
      Miracles are perfectly natural. They are results of the
      Universe working the way it's intended to work. Furthermore,
      the person we think of as the recipient of a miracle is actually
      the co-creator of that miracle. We are wired for miracles.
      All we have to do is learn how to help them unfold."

      To provide a foundation for their assertion, the
      authors delve into the staggering new science of
      quantum physics. The very characteristics of the quantum
      world suggest that there is no separation, no dividing
      line between consciousness (thought) and physical form
      or manifestation. We are one with the Universe and part
      of it. We actually participate in its operation--and it
      responds to us.

      In other words, in tandem with the Power and Intelligence
      that created the Universe, you actually co-create your
      own reality.

      All thought is creative, both positive thought and
      negative thought. The key to having miracles manifest
      in your life is to know that miracles can happen, and
      they can happen for you. It's that simple--but the authors
      admit that simple and easy are not synonymous. (If they
      were, everyone would be living rich, rewarding, happy
      lives.) To change your life, you must change the way
      you think. That requires discipline and practice.

      Shortcut to a Miracle outlines what you can do to create
      your miracle, and supports its assertions with dozens
      of real-life stories about those who have found success
      using the principles the authors set forth. Here are just
      a few insights from the book:

      Adopt the Miracle-Making Attitude. The frame of
      mind that allows miracles to unfold is comprised of
      five elements. Doubt in any one of these areas can
      have a negative impact on the manifestation of your
      miracle:

      1. Miracles unfold according to Universal Law. Begin
      right now to know that miracles do not happen by
      chance. They are no more random or capricious than,
      for example, the Law of Gravity that holds the universe
      together.

      2. Your miracle is possible. Any time you question
      whether the miracle you desire is possible, think about
      this awesome universe, and ask yourself if the
      incomprehensible Intelligence and Power responsible
      for creating this universe isn't far more than enough
      to also bring into your life whatever it is that you need
      or desire.

      3. Your miracle is never too big. You may wonder
      whether what you want or think you need is "too big."
      It is not too big! Ralph Waldo Emerson said it best,
      "There is no large or small to the Soul that maketh all."

      4. You play a major role in bringing about your
      miracle. You may wonder, "If it can happen, do
      I have any part in making it happen, or allowing
      it to happen?" Yes. It happens through you, not to
      you. Your part has to do with your belief, and your
      belief is the result of your thinking.

      5. You deserve miracles in your life. The final
      question you may have is, "Do I deserve to have
      something this good happen?" The answer is an
      unqualified yes! You deserve miracles because
      the Power and the Intelligence that created the
      universe also created you to live and enjoy life
      as fully and completely as you choose.

      Stop "squirrel caging." What is squirrel caging?
      It's a form of negative habitual thinking when
      you go over the same thing in your mind repeatedly
      --again and again--around and around and around.
      (Think of a squirrel running in a paddle-wheel-type
      cage, getting nowhere.) TThe three areas where people
      tend to squirrel cage are:

      when we feel wronged or insulted when we make a
      mistake or otherwise embarrass ourselves when we
      take a strong dislike to someone and begin mentally
      criticizing everything they do.

      Understand that when you begin squirrel caging,
      you are actually blocking your miracle. A simple,
      direct statement that helps many people to stop
      squirrel caging is, "I don't need that anymore."
      This statement stops the cycle and allows normal
      thinking to resume. Then you can begin to take charge
      of your thinking by focusing on what you want--
      your miracle--instead of what you don't want.

      Understand the 51 percent rule. One of the biggest
      impediments to having a miracle in your life is the
      fear that you might not get the miracle that you
      desire. We water down our Miracle-Making Attitude
      with thoughts like: "What if I don't get another job
      and I lose the house?" "What if the diagnosis is positive?"
      "What if . . ." "What if . . ." It goes on and on.

      It's important not to back off from what you want
      because you're afraid you might not get it. Think of
      faith and fear as being opposite ends of the same
      continuum. The more afraid we are of some future
      event, the more fearful we become. The greater
      our expectancy of good, however, the stronger
      our faith. The important point is that we don't
      need 100 percent faith--all we need is 51 percent
      faith, and our lives begin to turn in the right direction.

      Don't be discouraged if things appear to get
      worse before they get better. Paradoxically, it's
      not uncommon for a positive change in our lives
      to be preceded by a chaotic period in which a
      number of unsettling things take place. When
      you have begun the mental and emotional process
      that allows a miracle to move into your life, you
      will experience a clearing in consciousness. This
      process often involves the shifting around of many
      things and many patterns in your life. It actually
      ties in with what is known in quantum physics as
      chaos theory. Just remember that, no matter what
      it looks like, beneath any chaotic appearance lies
      order and harmony. Stay focused on your miracle
      and not on unfavorable circumstances.

      Ultimately, say Rann and Arrott, the more you
      align your thinking with what you want, the more
      fully empowered you become, and the more transformed
      your life becomes.

      "The wonderful truth is that in the process of getting
      your miracle, you're opening the door to other miracles,"
      they assert. "When you work toward a miracle in one
      area of your life--your health for instance--you actually
      lay the groundwork for miracles in the other areas,
      namely, prosperity, success, and relationships."

      "You will discover a whole new life that's richer, fuller,
      and more abundant than you ever thought possible,"
      the authors add. "Even your problems become steppingstones
      rather than obstacles. If it sounds too good to be true,
      I assure you that it is not. I've seen it happen again
      and again. Start today. You will find that you are
      supported in your choice by a loving Presence that
      provides--without question and all the time--all you
      could ever want or need."

      Spiritual counselors Michael C. Rann and Elizabeth Rann
      Arrott have spent more than sixty years, combined, examining
      the laws of miracles, their operation and application. This
      groundbreaking book is the culmination of their lifework.
      Michael is director of the Science of Mind Center in Chicago.
      Elizabeth is director of the Science of Mind Center in Evanston,
      Illinois.
      *****************************************************

      misha wrote:
      >
      >
      > For those of you wondering what great pearls of wisdom came out
      > of Klemp's recent talk at the eckankar world wide seminar, Mark
      > Alexander has shared some of his impressions of
      > Klemp's speak, calling it "The Living Word." BTW, I find Mark's babbling
      > to be more of his own discomfort in what Klemp said--that he, too,
      > must have been troubled by Klemp's message just as well as the eckists
      > who came up to him afterwards questioning some of Klemp's remarks.
      >
      > Before reading Mark's post, here's few of my thoughts on what he shared.
      >
      > 1. The bathroom story seems recycled as I read something similar in one
      > of Klemp's transcripts years ago . . . unless Klemp still has a thing about
      > bathrooms. It's odd he is directing chelas to do some vahana work in public
      > restrooms now! Personally the whole bathroom talk, Unisex comments,
      > raising a white haired lady's consciousness, etc. is really quite
      > weird--but what can one expect from a guy who disrobed in an airport.
      > Klemp was out of balance then, and he still is out of balance!
      >
      > 2. It seems too that he doesn't like women, especially white haired ones!
      > I have to wonder if he loved his mother--or he wouldn't so easily put down
      > an older woman who reacted naturally "shocked" when he entered a women's
      > restroom. Too bad security wasn't called on Klemp for doing this--
      > maybe, he needs another time out in a mental institution since it doesn't
      > appear he was cured from his mental unbalance and inappropriate behavior
      > the first time. Telling chelas on such a large stage that he sometimes tells
      > Joan to quit talking at home, is really arrogant and disrespectful of the one
      > he should love and treasure the most--he certainly is displaying male
      > chauvinismand unloving behavior. Yeah,Klemp talks about a unisex society
      > but yet the male is still dominant! LOL! I think that Klemp inviting Joan to
      > share the stage with him, singing her little song, elevated her, but he also
      > kept her in a subordinate role. Yep, she'll help him keep the power, but he
      > will still run the show! So, much for equal footing--male/ female! Klemp is
      > working hard to position Joan as a co-l.e.m. but yet he isn't making it
      > equal! But it is fun to watch his game. I suppose he doesn't want another
      > replay like Gail naming Twitchell's replacement- -Klemp would like it to
      > look more legitimate the next time, in case something happens to him
      > suddenly! : )
      >
      > Anyway . . . on HuChat, Mark wrote:

      > "I always listen to Harold's talk
      > as if they were Living Shariyat dreams to be decoded or as
      > ECK-Vidya tapestries that have an inherent & unity and integration.
      > Sometimes I think people forget that Harold is not just telling stories
      > to get a chuckle, that there is a literal Mahanta wave of meaning and
      > communication going on that penetrates deeper than what is actually
      > being said when read in transcript. First of all, he's always talking about
      > us, the ECK initiates, in one way or another. So in that context, WE are
      > the white-haired lady in the women's restroom that Harold talked about.
      >
      > Remember when we used to be ducks? ("I moved the food over here, but
      > the ducks stayed where they were. I told them the food had moved and
      > that they would starve if they didn' t move, but they just stayed in the
      > same place, looking for the food that wasn't there." Remember parables?
      > Even true stories are parables, especially when they involve Harold and Joan.)
      > In the restroom story (abbreviated version), Harold and Joan were shopping.
      > Joan went to the restroom, found a white-haired lady waiting for the
      > Women's room. The Men's room was not occupied, so Joan asked the
      > lady why she didn't use it. The women said that it was for men only. Harold
      > said that he and Joan have a policy of using "any port in the storm. " So Joan
      > went into the Men's room. Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a
      > restroom, finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room. It's
      > unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady is there. She looks at
      > him shocked. "But this is the Women's room!" she says. Harold says as
      > far as he's concerned the restrooms are Unisex. He mused that he wondered
      > at how the ECK used him to change the state of conciousness of the
      > white-haired woman.
      >
      > This story puts a cap on a particularly nice Living Word aspect of this talk.
      > I've seen on many occasions how Harold will say something that will tweak
      > the human consciousness (political or social or eck-related) , then in the same
      > talk there would be a story that addresses what he tweaks. This is how the
      > Living Word works. Earlier in his talk when Joan was singing, she got a little
      > lost in singing the complete song and so it went on longer than it should
      > have. Harold made a comment about her going on like that, and how
      > sometimes at home he would have to say something if she talks too long.
      > It was a very male/female comment. One that tweaked the human
      > consciousness of some ECKists. I had some come up to me and ask me
      > my opinion of it. Did I think Harold was being unkind to Joan? It bothered
      > them. I explained what I have here. That the Mahanta as the Living Word will
      > often say something that tweaks the human consciousness and then tie it
      > up later in a story. Not that this was planned. It's just the way of the ECK to
      > work like this. The Living Word.
      >
      > So here we have Harold tweaking us on the male/female thing and then
      > later tells us a story that tries to remind us not to get stuck in
      > male/ female categories. That they are fine, but we should not be like
      > the white-haired lady, stuck in one or the other. We should be thinking
      > Unisex, SOUL, beyond the categories. Change is Change (the title of the talk).
      > Harold's story about the song Joan sang and going back to the ORIGINAL
      > song reminds us that the human consciousness likes to change things. If
      > you sing the song I posted separately, you may notice that your human
      > consciousness wants to change it. But as it is, it offers a sublime "spaciousness"
      > that the mind would wrongly fill. Singing it the original way offers sublime
      > transport that the changes would destroy. Furthermore, these worlds of
      > categories complicate things with male/ female categories. The role of the
      > Mahanta is to offer the "simplifying" change of going & back to the original,
      > the Word, the HU, the path of ECK that first leads us to Soul then to God
      > through the Mahanta. He is the agent of change sent by the ECK into our
      > bathroom to tweak us out of our stuck, white-haired old lady views.
      > My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Hu Mark_"
      >
      > I especially love the way Mark summed this all up in his last paragraph!
      > Too funny! Klemp is the agent of change going into all and every public
      > bathroom regardless of them being for women or men--by golly, Klemp
      > is going in there and making changes . . . and his chelas are embracing this
      > idea as they too want to help with the change that obviously can be started
      > in such a basic and fundalmental places as restrooms. Hey, just remember
      > if the opposite gender comes into the restroom you are using, don't be
      > alarmed--it' s not any nut or pervert, it's just a nutty, possibly perverted
      > eckist! So much for those special, elevated spiritual teachings! : )
      >
      > Mish
      >
    • prometheus_973
      In the 12/2007 Mystic World Sharon Kunin s article is Damage Control for Klemp s 2007 EWWS RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX comments! Sharon s article begins on page 1
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 23, 2007
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        In the 12/2007 Mystic World Sharon Kunin's
        article is Damage Control for Klemp's 2007
        EWWS "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX" comments!

        Sharon's article begins on page 1 and is titled,
        "A Year of Blessing." On page 7 Sharon states
        that Klemp walked into the women's restroom
        where:

        "... he (HK) encountered a very alarmed
        white-haired woman standing at the sink.
        Excusing himself, Sri Harold returned to the
        men's room just as Joan emerged..."

        Now how does this... Oh! er excuse me madame!
        "Change" her consciousness? What happened to
        "Restrooms Are Unisex!"

        Or, did HK follow the Law of Silence and whispered
        or whimpered to himself, under his breath, Restrooms
        Should Be (are) Unisex Damnit! I Have Spoken!!!
        Maybe Klemp only shared his thoughts of what he
        wanted to say to that "Alarmed" white-haired woman?
        Maybe it was all made-up and he lied that he had said
        anything.

        Maybe this is what Sharon is really pointing out. Klemp
        lied to ECKists at the 2007 EWWS and never told that
        woman that Restrooms Are Unisex!

        I guess that the Holocaust didn't happen either!

        Or maybe, the Klemp's, the ESC and RESA Police
        are trying to re-write ECKANKAR History with this
        Damage Control! Almost everyone was embarrassed
        by Klemp's stupid comments and this generated
        a reaction of mass disapproval by the more sane ECKists!

        Although HK is out-of-control the EK Board can't
        do anything about it like they did with Gross! They
        allowed Klemp to restructure things giving himself
        sole authority. Too bad so sad! But what goes around
        comes around... that's karma isn't it?! LOL!

        I wonder what ECKists are thinking about this
        rewrite by Sharon Kunin which was approved
        of by both Joan and Harold? Do they think that
        this will make things better or that HK's nutty
        comments will all go away? I'll bet the tape of
        that talk gets edited along with the written version
        of it in the next Mahanta Transcripts!

        If there wasn't anything to hide (change)...
        Why Are They Doing This?!

        Let's just "change" Truth into Fiction... this seems
        to be the ECKANKAR way of viewing life! Or, maybe
        ECKists like Mark just "imagined" they saw and heard
        the Mahanta when it was actually the KAL!

        Prometheus
        p.s. HK's comments to Joan to "hush-up" weren't
        appreciated either by ECKists!


        On HuChat, Mark Alexander wrote:

        "I always listen to Harold's talk as if they were Living
        Shariyat dreams... Sometimes I think people forget that
        Harold is not just telling stories to get a chuckle, that
        there is a literal Mahanta... WE are the white-haired lady
        in the women's restroom that Harold talked about...

        Even true stories are parables, especially when they involve
        Harold and Joan.

        In the restroom story (abbreviated version), Harold and
        Joan were shopping. Joan went to the restroom, found a
        white-haired lady waiting for the Women's room. The Men's
        room was not occupied, so Joan asked the lady why she
        didn't use it. The women said that it was for men only.

        Harold said that he and Joan have a policy of using
        'any port in the storm.' So Joan went into the Men's room.
        Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
        finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
        It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
        is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's room!'
        she says.

        HAROLD SAYS AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED THE RESTROOMS
        ARE UNISEX. HE MUSED THAT HE WONDERED AT HOW THE
        ECK USED HIM TO CHANGE THE STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
        OF THE WHITE-HAIRED WOMAN.

        This story puts a cap on a particularly nice Living Word
        aspect of this talk. I've seen on many occasions how Harold
        will say something that will tweak the human consciousness
        (political or social or eck-related) , then in the same talk there
        would be a story that addresses what he tweaks. This is how the
        Living Word works.

        Earlier in his talk when Joan was singing, she got a little
        lost in singing the complete song and so it went on longer
        than it should have. Harold made a comment about her
        going on like that, and how sometimes at home he would
        have to say something if she talks too long. It was a very male/
        female comment...

        So here we have Harold tweaking us on the male/female
        thing and then later tells us a story that tries to remind us
        not to get stuck in male/ female categories. That they are fine,
        but we should not be like the white-haired lady, stuck in one
        or the other. We should be thinking Unisex, SOUL, beyond
        the categories. Change is Change (the title of the talk)... the
        Mahanta. He is the agent of change sent by the ECK into our
        bathroom to tweak us out of our stuck, white-haired old lady
        views. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Hu Mark_"


        misha wrote:

        For those of you wondering what great pearls of wisdom
        came out of Klemp's recent talk at the eckankar world wide
        seminar, Mark Alexander has shared some of his impressions
        of Klemp's speak, calling it "The Living Word." BTW, I find
        Mark's babbling to be more of his own discomfort in what
        Klemp said--that he, too, must have been troubled by Klemp's
        message just as well as the eckists who came up to him afterwards
        questioning some of Klemp's remarks.
        > >
        here's few of my thoughts on what he shared.
        > >

        1. The bathroom story seems recycled as I read something
        similar in one of Klemp's transcripts years ago . . . unless
        Klemp still has a thing about bathrooms. It's odd he is directing
        chelas to do some vahana work in public restrooms now!

        Personally the whole bathroom talk, Unisex comments,
        raising a white haired lady's consciousness, etc. is really
        quite weird--but what can one expect from a guy who
        disrobed in an airport. Klemp was out of balance then, and
        he still is out of balance!
        > >

        2. It seems too that he doesn't like women, especially white
        haired ones! I have to wonder if he loved his mother--or he
        wouldn't so easily put down an older woman who reacted naturally
        "shocked" when he entered a women's restroom. Too bad security
        wasn't called on Klemp for doing this--maybe, he needs another
        time out in a mental institution since it doesn't appear he was
        cured from his mental unbalance and inappropriate behavior
        the first time.

        Telling chelas on such a large stage that he sometimes tells
        Joan to quit talking at home, is really arrogant and disrespectful
        of the one he should love and treasure the most--he certainly
        is displaying male chauvinism and unloving behavior. Yeah,
        Klemp talks about a unisex society but yet the male is still
        dominant! LOL!

        I think that Klemp inviting Joan to share the stage with him,
        singing her little song, elevated her, but he also kept her in
        a subordinate role. Yep, she'll help him keep the power, but
        he will still run the show! So, much for equal footing--male/
        female! Klemp is working hard to position Joan as a co-l.e.m.
        but yet he isn't making it equal! But it is fun to watch his game.
        I suppose he doesn't want another replay like Gail naming Twitchell's
        replacement- -Klemp would like it to look more legitimate the
        next time, in case something happens to him suddenly! : )
        > >

        Anyway . . .
        I especially love the way Mark summed this all up in his last
        paragraph! Too funny! Klemp is the agent of change going
        into all and every public bathroom regardless of them being
        for women or men--by golly, Klemp is going in there and
        making changes . . . and his chelas are embracing this
        idea as they too want to help with the change that obviously
        can be started in such a basic and fundalmental places as
        restrooms. Hey, just remember if the opposite gender comes
        into the restroom you are using, don't be alarmed--it' s not
        any nut or pervert, it's just a nutty, possibly perverted
        eckist! So much for those special, elevated spiritual teachings! : )

        Mish
      • prometheus_973
        Doesn t it seem like there is a Lack of Communication between these two (Harry & Joan), as well as, a problem with bladder control (lower chakra health)! One s
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 26, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Doesn't it seem like there is a Lack of Communication
          between these two (Harry & Joan), as well as, a problem
          with bladder control (lower chakra health)! One's a 14th
          Initiate and the other a 9th Initiate and yet most average
          couples (non-Eckists) communicate better and are more
          capable than these two goofs!

          Can't HK go into the men's restroom with Joan?! Sure! And,
          where's that "inner (and outer) communication" to Know where
          Joan is? Where's the Mahanta's "intuition" and "insight" for Harry
          Not to know the men's room was locked because Joan was in there!

          Is the Mahanta Consciousness limited to KNOWING these things!
          It's ridiculous! Klemp is a mini-master scammer! One can see the
          "proof in the pudding" that ECK Initiations are Bogus! Would this
          comedy of errors happen to Rebazar? Would Rebazar get "punked"
          by the KAL? Of course Not!

          Klemp is Not a real Master anyway, and Rebazar is a fictional
          character created by Twitchell in order to "initiate" himself!

          Plus, just read the stupid stories sent to The Mystic World,
          H.I. Letter, and RESA Star! These H.I.s are talking about
          really basic stuff as though it's a revelation in consciousness
          and a miracle due to the Mahanta interceding for them! One
          can read these same type of stories, if not better or greater
          ones and examples of faith, from other religions that Eckankar
          views as lesser (lower) spiritual paths! Eckists really need to
          get out more with non-Eckists and read more non-Eck books.
          And, everyone really need to take people off those pedestals...
          no one should be placed Higher (or lower) than Oneself!

          Prometheus

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > In the 12/2007 Mystic World Sharon Kunin's
          > article is Damage Control for Klemp's 2007
          > EWWS "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX" comments!
          >
          > Sharon's article begins on page 1 and is titled,
          > "A Year of Blessing." On page 7 Sharon states
          > that Klemp walked into the women's restroom
          > where:

          ***
          "... he (HK) encountered a very alarmed
          white-haired woman standing at the sink.
          Excusing himself, SRI HAROLD RETURNED TO
          THE MEN'S ROOM JUST AS JOAN EMERGED..."
          ***

          > Now how does this... Oh! er excuse me madame!
          > "Change" her consciousness? What happened to
          > "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
          >
          > Or, did HK follow the Law of Silence and whispered
          > or whimpered to himself, under his breath, Restrooms
          > Should Be (are) Unisex Damnit! I Have Spoken!!!
          > Maybe Klemp only shared his thoughts of what he
          > wanted to say to that "Alarmed" white-haired woman?
          > Maybe it was all made-up and he lied that he had said
          > anything.
          >
          > Maybe this is what Sharon is really pointing out. Klemp
          > lied to ECKists at the 2007 EWWS and never told that
          > woman that Restrooms Are Unisex!
          >
          > I guess that the Holocaust didn't happen either!
          >
          > Or maybe, the Klemp's, the ESC and RESA Police
          > are trying to re-write ECKANKAR History with this
          > Damage Control! Almost everyone was embarrassed
          > by Klemp's stupid comments and this generated
          > a reaction of mass disapproval by the more sane ECKists!
          >
          > Although HK is out-of-control the EK Board can't
          > do anything about it like they did with Gross! They
          > allowed Klemp to restructure things giving himself
          > sole authority. Too bad so sad! But what goes around
          > comes around... that's karma isn't it?! LOL!
          >
          > I wonder what ECKists are thinking about this
          > rewrite by Sharon Kunin which was approved
          > of by both Joan and Harold? Do they think that
          > this will make things better or that HK's nutty
          > comments will all go away? I'll bet the tape of
          > that talk gets edited along with the written version
          > of it in the next Mahanta Transcripts!
          >
          > If there wasn't anything to hide (change)...
          > Why Are They Doing This?!
          >
          > Let's just "change" Truth into Fiction... this seems
          > to be the ECKANKAR way of viewing life! Or, maybe
          > ECKists like Mark just "imagined" they saw and heard
          > the Mahanta when it was actually the KAL!
          >
          > Prometheus
          > p.s. HK's comments to Joan to "hush-up" weren't
          > appreciated either by ECKists!
          >
          >
          > On HuChat, Mark Alexander wrote:
          >
          > "I always listen to Harold's talk as if they were Living
          > Shariyat dreams... Sometimes I think people forget that
          > Harold is not just telling stories to get a chuckle, that
          > there is a literal Mahanta... WE are the white-haired lady
          > in the women's restroom that Harold talked about...
          >
          > Even true stories are parables, especially when they involve
          > Harold and Joan.
          >
          > In the restroom story (abbreviated version), Harold and
          > Joan were shopping. Joan went to the restroom, found a
          > white-haired lady waiting for the Women's room. The Men's
          > room was not occupied, so Joan asked the lady why she
          > didn't use it. The women said that it was for men only.
          >
          > Harold said that he and Joan have a policy of using
          > 'any port in the storm.' So Joan went into the Men's room.
          > Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
          > finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
          > It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
          > is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's room!'
          > she says.
          >
          > HAROLD SAYS AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED THE RESTROOMS
          > ARE UNISEX. HE MUSED THAT HE WONDERED AT HOW THE
          > ECK USED HIM TO CHANGE THE STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
          > OF THE WHITE-HAIRED WOMAN.
          >
          > This story puts a cap on a particularly nice Living Word
          > aspect of this talk. I've seen on many occasions how Harold
          > will say something that will tweak the human consciousness
          > (political or social or eck-related) , then in the same talk there
          > would be a story that addresses what he tweaks. This is how the
          > Living Word works.
          >
          > Earlier in his talk when Joan was singing, she got a little
          > lost in singing the complete song and so it went on longer
          > than it should have. Harold made a comment about her
          > going on like that, and how sometimes at home he would
          > have to say something if she talks too long. It was a very male/
          > female comment...
          >
          > So here we have Harold tweaking us on the male/female
          > thing and then later tells us a story that tries to remind us
          > not to get stuck in male/ female categories. That they are fine,
          > but we should not be like the white-haired lady, stuck in one
          > or the other. We should be thinking Unisex, SOUL, beyond
          > the categories. Change is Change (the title of the talk)... the
          > Mahanta. He is the agent of change sent by the ECK into our
          > bathroom to tweak us out of our stuck, white-haired old lady
          > views. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Hu Mark_"
          >
          >
          > misha wrote:
          >
          > For those of you wondering what great pearls of wisdom
          > came out of Klemp's recent talk at the eckankar world wide
          > seminar, Mark Alexander has shared some of his impressions
          > of Klemp's speak, calling it "The Living Word." BTW, I find
          > Mark's babbling to be more of his own discomfort in what
          > Klemp said--that he, too, must have been troubled by Klemp's
          > message just as well as the eckists who came up to him afterwards
          > questioning some of Klemp's remarks.
          > > >
          > here's few of my thoughts on what he shared.
          > > >
          >
          > 1. The bathroom story seems recycled as I read something
          > similar in one of Klemp's transcripts years ago . . . unless
          > Klemp still has a thing about bathrooms. It's odd he is directing
          > chelas to do some vahana work in public restrooms now!
          >
          > Personally the whole bathroom talk, Unisex comments,
          > raising a white haired lady's consciousness, etc. is really
          > quite weird--but what can one expect from a guy who
          > disrobed in an airport. Klemp was out of balance then, and
          > he still is out of balance!
          > > >
          >
          > 2. It seems too that he doesn't like women, especially white
          > haired ones! I have to wonder if he loved his mother--or he
          > wouldn't so easily put down an older woman who reacted naturally
          > "shocked" when he entered a women's restroom. Too bad security
          > wasn't called on Klemp for doing this--maybe, he needs another
          > time out in a mental institution since it doesn't appear he was
          > cured from his mental unbalance and inappropriate behavior
          > the first time.
          >
          > Telling chelas on such a large stage that he sometimes tells
          > Joan to quit talking at home, is really arrogant and disrespectful
          > of the one he should love and treasure the most--he certainly
          > is displaying male chauvinism and unloving behavior. Yeah,
          > Klemp talks about a unisex society but yet the male is still
          > dominant! LOL!
          >
          > I think that Klemp inviting Joan to share the stage with him,
          > singing her little song, elevated her, but he also kept her in
          > a subordinate role. Yep, she'll help him keep the power, but
          > he will still run the show! So, much for equal footing--male/
          > female! Klemp is working hard to position Joan as a co-l.e.m.
          > but yet he isn't making it equal! But it is fun to watch his game.
          > I suppose he doesn't want another replay like Gail naming Twitchell's
          > replacement- -Klemp would like it to look more legitimate the
          > next time, in case something happens to him suddenly! : )
          > > >
          >
          > Anyway . . .
          > I especially love the way Mark summed this all up in his last
          > paragraph! Too funny! Klemp is the agent of change going
          > into all and every public bathroom regardless of them being
          > for women or men--by golly, Klemp is going in there and
          > making changes . . . and his chelas are embracing this
          > idea as they too want to help with the change that obviously
          > can be started in such a basic and fundalmental places as
          > restrooms. Hey, just remember if the opposite gender comes
          > into the restroom you are using, don't be alarmed--it' s not
          > any nut or pervert, it's just a nutty, possibly perverted
          > eckist! So much for those special, elevated spiritual teachings! : )
          >
          > Mish
          >
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, All! I think I already mentioned in another post regarding HK s bathroom stunt EWWS talk story, that HK has told similar bathroom stories in the past
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 28, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi, All!

            I think I already mentioned in another post regarding HK's
            bathroom "stunt" EWWS talk story, that HK has told similar
            bathroom stories in the past where Joan and/or he will go
            into the opposite gender restrooms due to their impatience of
            waiting until the proper restroom is available or their own
            poor timing in going off to take care of their basic needs!
            Why HK and Joan think this is appropriate and acceptable
            behavior is really amusing as many would think it perverted
            and maybe would report them to store security. LOL!

            Anyway, it seems for HK, the highlights of his day are such
            activities. His life is so mundune and so uninspiring that he
            grasps for any kind of event to make it sound inspirational--
            such as going into the opposite gender public restrooms,
            disturbing a white haired lady, and hooking this weirdness into
            some sort of change is change story for chelas to learn from! : )

            It is very revealing that Sharon Kunin has written her own
            condensed version of HK's talk, leaving out some "important"
            details from Mark Alexander's eye witness account. I wonder
            why Sharon Kunin has down played the bathroom story and
            omitted some key elements? I wonder how the master of the
            universe HK feels about the alteration of his story? It seems
            this re-write by Sharon Kunin indicates some other eck org
            higher ups also have a problem with the story as told by HK--
            and perhaps they are in agreement with some of the perspectives
            that we on ESA have regarding wily-nilly use of public restrooms!
            Do you think HK has embarrassed his inner circle of H.I. friends?
            Seems like it, doesn't it, with Sharon Kunin (Doug's wife) taking
            on this re-telling?

            Meanwhile, HK and Joan should change their bathroom habits--
            like not waiting too long before finding a restroom for use or
            maybe they need to see a "real" doctor to discuss their
            incontinent problems! If not a physical defect, then a good
            psychologist might be able to figure out why HK has such
            bathroom fetishes--probably goes back to his childhood toilet
            training? It might be why the white haired (mother figure) lady
            is so significant to HK's story???

            But in the meantime, the eck org continues to re-write their
            history, even recent history such as HK's EWWS talk in order
            for it to filter better out to the duped chelas and the general
            public who might stumble onto this whacky religious cult!
            Change is change but it doesn't need to be implemented in
            public restrooms! I shudder to think at what other crazy little
            ideas/thoughts will spill out of HK's mouth next! But when
            chelas take this bathroom story so seriously and try to do as
            the mahanta does, well, it just shows how following anyone,
            cult leader/hero, can take one down a slippery slope of
            unreasonable thinking and behaviors. : )

            Mish



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Doesn't it seem like there is a Lack of Communication
            > between these two (Harry & Joan), as well as, a problem
            > with bladder control (lower chakra health)! One's a 14th
            > Initiate and the other a 9th Initiate and yet most average
            > couples (non-Eckists) communicate better and are more
            > capable than these two goofs!
            >
            > Can't HK go into the men's restroom with Joan?! Sure! And,
            > where's that "inner (and outer) communication" to Know where
            > Joan is? Where's the Mahanta's "intuition" and "insight" for Harry
            > Not to know the men's room was locked because Joan was in there!
            >
            > Is the Mahanta Consciousness limited to KNOWING these things!
            > It's ridiculous! Klemp is a mini-master scammer! One can see the
            > "proof in the pudding" that ECK Initiations are Bogus! Would this
            > comedy of errors happen to Rebazar? Would Rebazar get "punked"
            > by the KAL? Of course Not!
            >
            > Klemp is Not a real Master anyway, and Rebazar is a fictional
            > character created by Twitchell in order to "initiate" himself!
            >
            > Plus, just read the stupid stories sent to The Mystic World,
            > H.I. Letter, and RESA Star! These H.I.s are talking about
            > really basic stuff as though it's a revelation in consciousness
            > and a miracle due to the Mahanta interceding for them! One
            > can read these same type of stories, if not better or greater
            > ones and examples of faith, from other religions that Eckankar
            > views as lesser (lower) spiritual paths! Eckists really need to
            > get out more with non-Eckists and read more non-Eck books.
            > And, everyone really need to take people off those pedestals...
            > no one should be placed Higher (or lower) than Oneself!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > In the 12/2007 Mystic World Sharon Kunin's
            > > article is Damage Control for Klemp's 2007
            > > EWWS "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX" comments!
            > >
            > > Sharon's article begins on page 1 and is titled,
            > > "A Year of Blessing." On page 7 Sharon states
            > > that Klemp walked into the women's restroom
            > > where:
            >
            > ***
            > "... he (HK) encountered a very alarmed
            > white-haired woman standing at the sink.
            > Excusing himself, SRI HAROLD RETURNED TO
            > THE MEN'S ROOM JUST AS JOAN EMERGED..."
            > ***
            >
            > > Now how does this... Oh! er excuse me madame!
            > > "Change" her consciousness? What happened to
            > > "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
            > >
            > > Or, did HK follow the Law of Silence and whispered
            > > or whimpered to himself, under his breath, Restrooms
            > > Should Be (are) Unisex Damnit! I Have Spoken!!!
            > > Maybe Klemp only shared his thoughts of what he
            > > wanted to say to that "Alarmed" white-haired woman?
            > > Maybe it was all made-up and he lied that he had said
            > > anything.
            > >
            > > Maybe this is what Sharon is really pointing out. Klemp
            > > lied to ECKists at the 2007 EWWS and never told that
            > > woman that Restrooms Are Unisex!
            > >
            > > I guess that the Holocaust didn't happen either!
            > >
            > > Or maybe, the Klemp's, the ESC and RESA Police
            > > are trying to re-write ECKANKAR History with this
            > > Damage Control! Almost everyone was embarrassed
            > > by Klemp's stupid comments and this generated
            > > a reaction of mass disapproval by the more sane ECKists!
            > >
            > > Although HK is out-of-control the EK Board can't
            > > do anything about it like they did with Gross! They
            > > allowed Klemp to restructure things giving himself
            > > sole authority. Too bad so sad! But what goes around
            > > comes around... that's karma isn't it?! LOL!
            > >
            > > I wonder what ECKists are thinking about this
            > > rewrite by Sharon Kunin which was approved
            > > of by both Joan and Harold? Do they think that
            > > this will make things better or that HK's nutty
            > > comments will all go away? I'll bet the tape of
            > > that talk gets edited along with the written version
            > > of it in the next Mahanta Transcripts!
            > >
            > > If there wasn't anything to hide (change)...
            > > Why Are They Doing This?!
            > >
            > > Let's just "change" Truth into Fiction... this seems
            > > to be the ECKANKAR way of viewing life! Or, maybe
            > > ECKists like Mark just "imagined" they saw and heard
            > > the Mahanta when it was actually the KAL!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > > p.s. HK's comments to Joan to "hush-up" weren't
            > > appreciated either by ECKists!
            > >
            > >
            > > On HuChat, Mark Alexander wrote:
            > >
            > > "I always listen to Harold's talk as if they were Living
            > > Shariyat dreams... Sometimes I think people forget that
            > > Harold is not just telling stories to get a chuckle, that
            > > there is a literal Mahanta... WE are the white-haired lady
            > > in the women's restroom that Harold talked about...
            > >
            > > Even true stories are parables, especially when they involve
            > > Harold and Joan.
            > >
            > > In the restroom story (abbreviated version), Harold and
            > > Joan were shopping. Joan went to the restroom, found a
            > > white-haired lady waiting for the Women's room. The Men's
            > > room was not occupied, so Joan asked the lady why she
            > > didn't use it. The women said that it was for men only.
            > >
            > > Harold said that he and Joan have a policy of using
            > > 'any port in the storm.' So Joan went into the Men's room.
            > > Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
            > > finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
            > > It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
            > > is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's room!'
            > > she says.
            > >
            > > HAROLD SAYS AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED THE RESTROOMS
            > > ARE UNISEX. HE MUSED THAT HE WONDERED AT HOW THE
            > > ECK USED HIM TO CHANGE THE STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
            > > OF THE WHITE-HAIRED WOMAN.
            > >
            > > This story puts a cap on a particularly nice Living Word
            > > aspect of this talk. I've seen on many occasions how Harold
            > > will say something that will tweak the human consciousness
            > > (political or social or eck-related) , then in the same talk there
            > > would be a story that addresses what he tweaks. This is how the
            > > Living Word works.
            > >
            > > Earlier in his talk when Joan was singing, she got a little
            > > lost in singing the complete song and so it went on longer
            > > than it should have. Harold made a comment about her
            > > going on like that, and how sometimes at home he would
            > > have to say something if she talks too long. It was a very male/
            > > female comment...
            > >
            > > So here we have Harold tweaking us on the male/female
            > > thing and then later tells us a story that tries to remind us
            > > not to get stuck in male/ female categories. That they are fine,
            > > but we should not be like the white-haired lady, stuck in one
            > > or the other. We should be thinking Unisex, SOUL, beyond
            > > the categories. Change is Change (the title of the talk)... the
            > > Mahanta. He is the agent of change sent by the ECK into our
            > > bathroom to tweak us out of our stuck, white-haired old lady
            > > views. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Hu Mark_"
            > >
            > >
            > > misha wrote:
            > >
            > > For those of you wondering what great pearls of wisdom
            > > came out of Klemp's recent talk at the eckankar world wide
            > > seminar, Mark Alexander has shared some of his impressions
            > > of Klemp's speak, calling it "The Living Word." BTW, I find
            > > Mark's babbling to be more of his own discomfort in what
            > > Klemp said--that he, too, must have been troubled by Klemp's
            > > message just as well as the eckists who came up to him afterwards
            > > questioning some of Klemp's remarks.
            > > > >
            > > here's few of my thoughts on what he shared.
            > > > >
            > >
            > > 1. The bathroom story seems recycled as I read something
            > > similar in one of Klemp's transcripts years ago . . . unless
            > > Klemp still has a thing about bathrooms. It's odd he is directing
            > > chelas to do some vahana work in public restrooms now!
            > >
            > > Personally the whole bathroom talk, Unisex comments,
            > > raising a white haired lady's consciousness, etc. is really
            > > quite weird--but what can one expect from a guy who
            > > disrobed in an airport. Klemp was out of balance then, and
            > > he still is out of balance!
            > > > >
            > >
            > > 2. It seems too that he doesn't like women, especially white
            > > haired ones! I have to wonder if he loved his mother--or he
            > > wouldn't so easily put down an older woman who reacted naturally
            > > "shocked" when he entered a women's restroom. Too bad security
            > > wasn't called on Klemp for doing this--maybe, he needs another
            > > time out in a mental institution since it doesn't appear he was
            > > cured from his mental unbalance and inappropriate behavior
            > > the first time.
            > >
            > > Telling chelas on such a large stage that he sometimes tells
            > > Joan to quit talking at home, is really arrogant and disrespectful
            > > of the one he should love and treasure the most--he certainly
            > > is displaying male chauvinism and unloving behavior. Yeah,
            > > Klemp talks about a unisex society but yet the male is still
            > > dominant! LOL!
            > >
            > > I think that Klemp inviting Joan to share the stage with him,
            > > singing her little song, elevated her, but he also kept her in
            > > a subordinate role. Yep, she'll help him keep the power, but
            > > he will still run the show! So, much for equal footing--male/
            > > female! Klemp is working hard to position Joan as a co-l.e.m.
            > > but yet he isn't making it equal! But it is fun to watch his game.
            > > I suppose he doesn't want another replay like Gail naming Twitchell's
            > > replacement- -Klemp would like it to look more legitimate the
            > > next time, in case something happens to him suddenly! : )
            > > > >
            > >
            > > Anyway . . .
            > > I especially love the way Mark summed this all up in his last
            > > paragraph! Too funny! Klemp is the agent of change going
            > > into all and every public bathroom regardless of them being
            > > for women or men--by golly, Klemp is going in there and
            > > making changes . . . and his chelas are embracing this
            > > idea as they too want to help with the change that obviously
            > > can be started in such a basic and fundalmental places as
            > > restrooms. Hey, just remember if the opposite gender comes
            > > into the restroom you are using, don't be alarmed--it' s not
            > > any nut or pervert, it's just a nutty, possibly perverted
            > > eckist! So much for those special, elevated spiritual teachings! : )
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Mish and All, It looks to me like Joan and Sharon (others too?) planned to do some Damage Control without Harry knowing what they were up to. I know HK read
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 28, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Mish and All,
              It looks to me like Joan and Sharon (others too?) planned
              to do some Damage Control without Harry knowing what
              they were up to. I know HK read and approved Sharon's
              article, but I don't think he noticed WHY it was written
              with certain details omitted.

              Afterall, the title of HK's talk was "Change is Change"
              and Klemp states that he "changed" the white-haired
              woman's consciousness! And, HK said (to all ECKists)
              that as far as he was concerned, "Restrooms Are Unisex!"

              Klemp states at the end of his 12/2007 WISDOM NOTES:
              "It's all about consciousness; it's all about love."

              What happened to the Law of Non-Interference? How
              "loving" was Klemp to this white-haired woman when
              he "alarmed" her and invaded her private space?

              According to Sharon Kunin HK just excused himself to
              the woman and left. How did this "change her consciousness"
              or show "love?" HK states that "It's all about consciousness"
              and "love," but WHY did HK claim to Interfere with the Current
              State of the Woman's Consciousness Without Her Permission?

              Don't Black Magicians or agents of the KAL manipulate
              or "change" people without their permission? Sure!

              Another thing! HK only states that he "Changed" the woman's
              consciousness BUT doesn't say in Which direction, or in What
              way! Will she now go and jump off the I-35 bridge! Did she
              (a non-ECKist) receive God Realization by the Restroom
              Mahanta!

              Yes, it seems that Joan and Sharon (Doug and other Board
              members too?) decided to do a seminar recap with certain
              embarrassing details left out. I wonder what Harry will think
              about that now that it's been pointed out?!

              Prometheus
              ********************************************************
              Sharon Kunin's 12/2007 EK Mystic World article begins
              on page 1 and is titled, "A Year of Blessing." On page
              7 Sharon states that Harold Klemp (the Mahanta) walked
              into the women's restroom where:

              "... he (HK) encountered a very alarmed
              white-haired woman standing at the sink.
              Excusing himself, SRI HAROLD RETURNED TO
              THE MEN'S ROOM JUST AS JOAN EMERGED..."

              Mark A. shares his notes of HK's 2007 EWWS talk on HU-Chat:

              "HAROLD SAYS AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED THE RESTROOMS
              ARE UNISEX. HE MUSED THAT HE WONDERED AT HOW THE
              ECK USED HIM TO CHANGE THE STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
              OF THE WHITE-HAIRED WOMAN...

              EARLIER IN HIS TALK WHEN JOAN WAS SINGING, SHE GOT
              A LITTLE LOST IN SINGING THE COMPLETE SONG AND SO
              IT WENT ON LONGER THAN IT SHOULD HAVE. HAROLD MADE
              A COMMENT ABOUT HER GOING ON LIKE THAT, AND HOW
              SOMETIMES AT HOME HE WOULD HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING
              IF SHE TALKS TOO LONG. IT WAS A VERY MALE/FEMALE
              COMMENT..."

              ***************************************************************

              mish wrote:
              >
              > Hi, All!
              >
              > I think I already mentioned in another post regarding HK's
              > bathroom "stunt" EWWS talk story, that HK has told similar
              > bathroom stories in the past where Joan and/or he will go
              > into the opposite gender restrooms due to their impatience of
              > waiting until the proper restroom is available or their own
              > poor timing in going off to take care of their basic needs!
              > Why HK and Joan think this is appropriate and acceptable
              > behavior is really amusing as many would think it perverted
              > and maybe would report them to store security. LOL!
              >
              > Anyway, it seems for HK, the highlights of his day are such
              > activities. His life is so mundune and so uninspiring that he
              > grasps for any kind of event to make it sound inspirational--
              > such as going into the opposite gender public restrooms,
              > disturbing a white haired lady, and hooking this weirdness into
              > some sort of change is change story for chelas to learn from! : )
              >
              > It is very revealing that Sharon Kunin has written her own
              > condensed version of HK's talk, leaving out some "important"
              > details from Mark Alexander's eye witness account. I wonder
              > why Sharon Kunin has down played the bathroom story and
              > omitted some key elements? I wonder how the master of the
              > universe HK feels about the alteration of his story? It seems
              > this re-write by Sharon Kunin indicates some other eck org
              > higher ups also have a problem with the story as told by HK--
              > and perhaps they are in agreement with some of the perspectives
              > that we on ESA have regarding wily-nilly use of public restrooms!
              > Do you think HK has embarrassed his inner circle of H.I. friends?
              > Seems like it, doesn't it, with Sharon Kunin (Doug's wife) taking
              > on this re-telling?
              >
              > Meanwhile, HK and Joan should change their bathroom habits--
              > like not waiting too long before finding a restroom for use or
              > maybe they need to see a "real" doctor to discuss their
              > incontinent problems! If not a physical defect, then a good
              > psychologist might be able to figure out why HK has such
              > bathroom fetishes--probably goes back to his childhood toilet
              > training? It might be why the white haired (mother figure) lady
              > is so significant to HK's story???
              >
              > But in the meantime, the eck org continues to re-write their
              > history, even recent history such as HK's EWWS talk in order
              > for it to filter better out to the duped chelas and the general
              > public who might stumble onto this whacky religious cult!
              > Change is change but it doesn't need to be implemented in
              > public restrooms! I shudder to think at what other crazy little
              > ideas/thoughts will spill out of HK's mouth next! But when
              > chelas take this bathroom story so seriously and try to do as
              > the mahanta does, well, it just shows how following anyone,
              > cult leader/hero, can take one down a slippery slope of
              > unreasonable thinking and behaviors. : )
              >
              > Mish
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Doesn't it seem like there is a Lack of Communication
              > > between these two (Harry & Joan), as well as, a problem
              > > with bladder control (lower chakra health)! One's a 14th
              > > Initiate and the other a 9th Initiate and yet most average
              > > couples (non-Eckists) communicate better and are more
              > > capable than these two goofs!
              > >
              > > Can't HK go into the men's restroom with Joan?! Sure! And,
              > > where's that "inner (and outer) communication" to Know where
              > > Joan is? Where's the Mahanta's "intuition" and "insight" for Harry
              > > Not to know the men's room was locked because Joan was in there!
              > >
              > > Is the Mahanta Consciousness limited to KNOWING these things!
              > > It's ridiculous! Klemp is a mini-master scammer! One can see the
              > > "proof in the pudding" that ECK Initiations are Bogus! Would this
              > > comedy of errors happen to Rebazar? Would Rebazar get "punked"
              > > by the KAL? Of course Not!
              > >
              > > Klemp is Not a real Master anyway, and Rebazar is a fictional
              > > character created by Twitchell in order to "initiate" himself!
              > >
              > > Plus, just read the stupid stories sent to The Mystic World,
              > > H.I. Letter, and RESA Star! These H.I.s are talking about
              > > really basic stuff as though it's a revelation in consciousness
              > > and a miracle due to the Mahanta interceding for them! One
              > > can read these same type of stories, if not better or greater
              > > ones and examples of faith, from other religions that Eckankar
              > > views as lesser (lower) spiritual paths! Eckists really need to
              > > get out more with non-Eckists and read more non-Eck books.
              > > And, everyone really need to take people off those pedestals...
              > > no one should be placed Higher (or lower) than Oneself!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > > >
              > > > In the 12/2007 Mystic World Sharon Kunin's
              > > > article is Damage Control for Klemp's 2007
              > > > EWWS "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX" comments!
              > > >
              > > > Sharon's article begins on page 1 and is titled,
              > > > "A Year of Blessing." On page 7 Sharon states
              > > > that Klemp walked into the women's restroom
              > > > where:
              > >
              > > ***
              > > "... he (HK) encountered a very alarmed
              > > white-haired woman standing at the sink.
              > > Excusing himself, SRI HAROLD RETURNED TO
              > > THE MEN'S ROOM JUST AS JOAN EMERGED..."
              > > ***
              > >
              > > > Now how does this... Oh! er excuse me madame!
              > > > "Change" her consciousness? What happened to
              > > > "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
              > > >
              > > > Or, did HK follow the Law of Silence and whispered
              > > > or whimpered to himself, under his breath, Restrooms
              > > > Should Be (are) Unisex Damnit! I Have Spoken!!!
              > > > Maybe Klemp only shared his thoughts of what he
              > > > wanted to say to that "Alarmed" white-haired woman?
              > > > Maybe it was all made-up and he lied that he had said
              > > > anything.
              > > >
              > > > Maybe this is what Sharon is really pointing out. Klemp
              > > > lied to ECKists at the 2007 EWWS and never told that
              > > > woman that Restrooms Are Unisex!
              > > >
              > > > I guess that the Holocaust didn't happen either!
              > > >
              > > > Or maybe, the Klemp's, the ESC and RESA Police
              > > > are trying to re-write ECKANKAR History with this
              > > > Damage Control! Almost everyone was embarrassed
              > > > by Klemp's stupid comments and this generated
              > > > a reaction of mass disapproval by the more sane ECKists!
              > > >
              > > > Although HK is out-of-control the EK Board can't
              > > > do anything about it like they did with Gross! They
              > > > allowed Klemp to restructure things giving himself
              > > > sole authority. Too bad so sad! But what goes around
              > > > comes around... that's karma isn't it?! LOL!
              > > >
              > > > I wonder what ECKists are thinking about this
              > > > rewrite by Sharon Kunin which was approved
              > > > of by both Joan and Harold? Do they think that
              > > > this will make things better or that HK's nutty
              > > > comments will all go away? I'll bet the tape of
              > > > that talk gets edited along with the written version
              > > > of it in the next Mahanta Transcripts!
              > > >
              > > > If there wasn't anything to hide (change)...
              > > > Why Are They Doing This?!
              > > >
              > > > Let's just "change" Truth into Fiction... this seems
              > > > to be the ECKANKAR way of viewing life! Or, maybe
              > > > ECKists like Mark just "imagined" they saw and heard
              > > > the Mahanta when it was actually the KAL!
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > > > p.s. HK's comments to Joan to "hush-up" weren't
              > > > appreciated either by ECKists!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On HuChat, Mark Alexander wrote:
              > > >
              > > > "I always listen to Harold's talk as if they were Living
              > > > Shariyat dreams... Sometimes I think people forget that
              > > > Harold is not just telling stories to get a chuckle, that
              > > > there is a literal Mahanta... WE are the white-haired lady
              > > > in the women's restroom that Harold talked about...
              > > >
              > > > Even true stories are parables, especially when they involve
              > > > Harold and Joan.
              > > >
              > > > In the restroom story (abbreviated version), Harold and
              > > > Joan were shopping. Joan went to the restroom, found a
              > > > white-haired lady waiting for the Women's room. The Men's
              > > > room was not occupied, so Joan asked the lady why she
              > > > didn't use it. The women said that it was for men only.
              > > >
              > > > Harold said that he and Joan have a policy of using
              > > > 'any port in the storm.' So Joan went into the Men's room.
              > > > Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
              > > > finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
              > > > It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
              > > > is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's room!'
              > > > she says.
              > > >
              > > > HAROLD SAYS AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED THE RESTROOMS
              > > > ARE UNISEX. HE MUSED THAT HE WONDERED AT HOW THE
              > > > ECK USED HIM TO CHANGE THE STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
              > > > OF THE WHITE-HAIRED WOMAN.
              > > >
              > > > This story puts a cap on a particularly nice Living Word
              > > > aspect of this talk. I've seen on many occasions how Harold
              > > > will say something that will tweak the human consciousness
              > > > (political or social or eck-related) , then in the same talk there
              > > > would be a story that addresses what he tweaks. This is how the
              > > > Living Word works.
              > > >
              > > > Earlier in his talk when Joan was singing, she got a little
              > > > lost in singing the complete song and so it went on longer
              > > > than it should have. Harold made a comment about her
              > > > going on like that, and how sometimes at home he would
              > > > have to say something if she talks too long. It was a very male/
              > > > female comment...
              > > >
              > > > So here we have Harold tweaking us on the male/female
              > > > thing and then later tells us a story that tries to remind us
              > > > not to get stuck in male/ female categories. That they are fine,
              > > > but we should not be like the white-haired lady, stuck in one
              > > > or the other. We should be thinking Unisex, SOUL, beyond
              > > > the categories. Change is Change (the title of the talk)... the
              > > > Mahanta. He is the agent of change sent by the ECK into our
              > > > bathroom to tweak us out of our stuck, white-haired old lady
              > > > views. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Hu Mark_"
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > misha wrote:
              > > >
              > > > For those of you wondering what great pearls of wisdom
              > > > came out of Klemp's recent talk at the eckankar world wide
              > > > seminar, Mark Alexander has shared some of his impressions
              > > > of Klemp's speak, calling it "The Living Word." BTW, I find
              > > > Mark's babbling to be more of his own discomfort in what
              > > > Klemp said--that he, too, must have been troubled by Klemp's
              > > > message just as well as the eckists who came up to him afterwards
              > > > questioning some of Klemp's remarks.
              > > > > >
              > > > here's few of my thoughts on what he shared.
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > > > 1. The bathroom story seems recycled as I read something
              > > > similar in one of Klemp's transcripts years ago . . . unless
              > > > Klemp still has a thing about bathrooms. It's odd he is directing
              > > > chelas to do some vahana work in public restrooms now!
              > > >
              > > > Personally the whole bathroom talk, Unisex comments,
              > > > raising a white haired lady's consciousness, etc. is really
              > > > quite weird--but what can one expect from a guy who
              > > > disrobed in an airport. Klemp was out of balance then, and
              > > > he still is out of balance!
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > > > 2. It seems too that he doesn't like women, especially white
              > > > haired ones! I have to wonder if he loved his mother--or he
              > > > wouldn't so easily put down an older woman who reacted naturally
              > > > "shocked" when he entered a women's restroom. Too bad security
              > > > wasn't called on Klemp for doing this--maybe, he needs another
              > > > time out in a mental institution since it doesn't appear he was
              > > > cured from his mental unbalance and inappropriate behavior
              > > > the first time.
              > > >
              > > > Telling chelas on such a large stage that he sometimes tells
              > > > Joan to quit talking at home, is really arrogant and disrespectful
              > > > of the one he should love and treasure the most--he certainly
              > > > is displaying male chauvinism and unloving behavior. Yeah,
              > > > Klemp talks about a unisex society but yet the male is still
              > > > dominant! LOL!
              > > >
              > > > I think that Klemp inviting Joan to share the stage with him,
              > > > singing her little song, elevated her, but he also kept her in
              > > > a subordinate role. Yep, she'll help him keep the power, but
              > > > he will still run the show! So, much for equal footing--male/
              > > > female! Klemp is working hard to position Joan as a co-l.e.m.
              > > > but yet he isn't making it equal! But it is fun to watch his game.
              > > > I suppose he doesn't want another replay like Gail naming Twitchell's
              > > > replacement- -Klemp would like it to look more legitimate the
              > > > next time, in case something happens to him suddenly! : )
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > > > Anyway . . .
              > > > I especially love the way Mark summed this all up in his last
              > > > paragraph! Too funny! Klemp is the agent of change going
              > > > into all and every public bathroom regardless of them being
              > > > for women or men--by golly, Klemp is going in there and
              > > > making changes . . . and his chelas are embracing this
              > > > idea as they too want to help with the change that obviously
              > > > can be started in such a basic and fundalmental places as
              > > > restrooms. Hey, just remember if the opposite gender comes
              > > > into the restroom you are using, don't be alarmed--it' s not
              > > > any nut or pervert, it's just a nutty, possibly perverted
              > > > eckist! So much for those special, elevated spiritual teachings! : )
              > > >
              > > > Mish
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Practical Skepticism is Based on Common Sense [David Hume]. Shouldn t ECKists take a Common Sense approach to what they read, see, and hear coming from their
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                "Practical Skepticism is Based on Common Sense"
                [David Hume]. Shouldn't ECKists take a Common
                Sense approach to what they read, see, and hear
                coming from their "ECK" Leaders and Mahanta?!


                From Wikipedia:

                Formal logic, as most people learn it, is deductive
                rather than inductive. Some philosophers claim to
                have created systems of inductive logic, but it is
                controversial whether a logic of induction is even
                possible. In contrast to deductive reasoning, conclusions
                arrived at by inductive reasoning do not necessarily
                have the same degree of certainty as the initial premises.

                For example, a conclusion that all swans are white is
                false, but may have been thought true in Europe until
                the settlement of Australia, when Black Swans were
                discovered. Inductive arguments are never binding
                but they may be cogent. Inductive reasoning is deductively
                invalid. (An argument in formal logic is valid if and only
                if it is not possible for the premises of the argument to
                be true whilst the conclusion is false.) In induction there
                are always many conclusions that can reasonably be related
                to certain premises. Inductions are open; deductions are
                closed.

                It is however possible to derive a true statement
                using inductive reasoning if you know the conclusion.
                The only way to have an efficient argument by induction
                is for the known conclusion to be able to be true only
                if an unstated external conclusion is true, from which
                the initial conclusion was built and has certain criteria
                to be met in order to be true (separate from the stated
                conclusion).

                By substitution of one conclusion for the other, you
                can inductively find out what evidence you need in
                order for your induction to be true. For example,
                you have a window that opens only one way, but
                not the other. Assuming that you know that the only
                way for that to happen is that the hinges are faulty,
                inductively you can postulate that the only way for
                that window to be fixed would be to apply oil (whatever
                will fix the unstated conclusion). From there on you
                can successfully build your case.

                However, if your unstated conclusion is false, which
                can only be proven by deductive reasoning, then your
                whole argument by induction collapses. Thus ultimately,
                pure inductive reasoning does not exist.

                The classic philosophical treatment of the problem
                of induction, meaning the search for a justification
                for inductive reasoning, was by the Scottish philosopher
                David Hume. Hume highlighted the fact that our everyday
                reasoning depends on patterns of repeated experience
                rather than deductively valid arguments. For example,
                we believe that bread will nourish us because it has
                done so in the past, but this is not a guarantee that it
                will always do so.

                As Hume said, someone who insisted on sound
                deductive justifications for everything would starve
                to death.

                Instead of approaching everything with unproductive
                skepticism, Hume advocated a practical skepticism
                based on common sense, where the inevitability of
                induction is accepted.

                Induction is sometimes framed as reasoning about
                the future from the past, but in its broadest sense it
                involves reaching conclusions about unobserved things
                on the basis of what has been observed. Inferences
                about the past from present evidence – for instance,
                as in archaeology, count as induction. Induction could
                also be across space rather than time, for instance as
                in physical cosmology where conclusions about the
                whole universe are drawn from the limited perspective
                we are able to observe (see cosmic variance); or in
                economics, where national economic policy is derived
                from local economic performance.

                Twentieth-century philosophy has approached induction
                very differently. Rather than a choice about what predictions
                to make about the future, induction can be seen as a choice
                of what concepts to fit to observations or of how to graph
                or represent a set of observed data.

                Nelson Goodman posed a "new riddle of induction"
                by inventing the property "grue" to which induction
                does not apply. [end]

                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Doesn't it seem like there is a Lack of Communication
                > between these two (Harry & Joan), as well as, a problem
                > with bladder control (lower chakra health)! One's a 14th
                > Initiate and the other a 9th Initiate and yet most average
                > couples (non-Eckists) communicate better and are more
                > capable than these two goofs!
                >
                > Can't HK go into the men's restroom with Joan?! Sure! And,
                > where's that "inner (and outer) communication" to Know where
                > Joan is? Where's the Mahanta's "intuition" and "insight" for Harry
                > Not to know the men's room was locked because Joan was in there!
                >
                > Is the Mahanta Consciousness limited to KNOWING these things!
                > It's ridiculous! Klemp is a mini-master scammer! One can see the
                > "proof in the pudding" that ECK Initiations are Bogus! Would this
                > comedy of errors happen to Rebazar? Would Rebazar get "punked"
                > by the KAL? Of course Not!
                >
                [EDIT]
                > Klemp is Not a real Master anyway, and Rebazar is a fictional
                > character created by Twitchell in order to "initiate" himself!
                > Is "imagination" proof, especially, someone else's? Why believe
                > that Twitchell was incapable of lying about Eckankar when he
                > lied about his birth date, Who's Who info, etc.? Use Common Sense!
                > Klemp is also a liar, as well as, deluded because he knows he's
                > no God-man let alone the Highest! Yet, he promotes himself
                > as the highest authority over all!

                > Plus, just read the stupid stories sent to The Mystic World,
                > H.I. Letter, and RESA Star! These H.I.s are talking about
                > really basic stuff as though it's a revelation in consciousness
                > and a miracle due to the Mahanta interceding for them! One
                > can read these same type of stories, if not better or greater
                > ones and examples of faith, from other religions that Eckankar
                > views as lesser (lower) spiritual paths! Eckists really need to
                > get out more with non-Eckists and read more non-Eck books.
                > And, everyone really need to take people off those pedestals...
                > no one should be placed Higher (or lower) than Oneself!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > In the 12/2007 Mystic World Sharon Kunin's
                > > article is Damage Control for Klemp's 2007
                > > EWWS "RESTROOMS ARE UNISEX" comments!
                > >
                > > Sharon's article begins on page 1 and is titled,
                > > "A Year of Blessing." On page 7 Sharon states
                > > that Klemp walked into the women's restroom
                > > where:
                >
                > ***
                > "... he (HK) encountered a very alarmed
                > white-haired woman standing at the sink.
                > Excusing himself, SRI HAROLD RETURNED TO
                > THE MEN'S ROOM JUST AS JOAN EMERGED..."
                > ***
                >
                > > Now how does this... Oh! er excuse me madame!
                > > "Change" her consciousness? What happened to
                > > "Restrooms Are Unisex!"
                > >
                > > Or, did HK follow the Law of Silence and whispered
                > > or whimpered to himself, under his breath, Restrooms
                > > Should Be (are) Unisex Damnit! I Have Spoken!!!
                > > Maybe Klemp only shared his thoughts of what he
                > > wanted to say to that "Alarmed" white-haired woman?
                > > Maybe it was all made-up and he lied that he had said
                > > anything.
                > >
                > > Maybe this is what Sharon is really pointing out. Klemp
                > > lied to ECKists at the 2007 EWWS and never told that
                > > woman that Restrooms Are Unisex!
                > >
                > > I guess that the Holocaust didn't happen either!
                > >
                > > Or maybe, the Klemp's, the ESC and RESA Police
                > > are trying to re-write ECKANKAR History with this
                > > Damage Control! Almost everyone was embarrassed
                > > by Klemp's stupid comments and this generated
                > > a reaction of mass disapproval by the more sane ECKists!
                > >
                > > Although HK is out-of-control the EK Board can't
                > > do anything about it like they did with Gross! They
                > > allowed Klemp to restructure things giving himself
                > > sole authority. Too bad so sad! But what goes around
                > > comes around... that's karma isn't it?! LOL!
                > >
                > > I wonder what ECKists are thinking about this
                > > rewrite by Sharon Kunin which was approved
                > > of by both Joan and Harold? Do they think that
                > > this will make things better or that HK's nutty
                > > comments will all go away? I'll bet the tape of
                > > that talk gets edited along with the written version
                > > of it in the next Mahanta Transcripts!
                > >
                > > If there wasn't anything to hide (change)...
                > > Why Are They Doing This?!
                > >
                > > Let's just "change" Truth into Fiction... this seems
                > > to be the ECKANKAR way of viewing life! Or, maybe
                > > ECKists like Mark just "imagined" they saw and heard
                > > the Mahanta when it was actually the KAL!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > > p.s. HK's comments to Joan to "hush-up" weren't
                > > appreciated either by ECKists!
                > >
                > >
                > > On HuChat, Mark Alexander wrote:
                > >
                > > "I always listen to Harold's talk as if they were Living
                > > Shariyat dreams... Sometimes I think people forget that
                > > Harold is not just telling stories to get a chuckle, that
                > > there is a literal Mahanta... WE are the white-haired lady
                > > in the women's restroom that Harold talked about...
                > >
                > > Even true stories are parables, especially when they involve
                > > Harold and Joan.
                > >
                > > In the restroom story (abbreviated version), Harold and
                > > Joan were shopping. Joan went to the restroom, found a
                > > white-haired lady waiting for the Women's room. The Men's
                > > room was not occupied, so Joan asked the lady why she
                > > didn't use it. The women said that it was for men only.
                > >
                > > Harold said that he and Joan have a policy of using
                > > 'any port in the storm.' So Joan went into the Men's room.
                > > Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
                > > finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
                > > It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
                > > is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's room!'
                > > she says.
                > >
                > > HAROLD SAYS AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED THE RESTROOMS
                > > ARE UNISEX. HE MUSED THAT HE WONDERED AT HOW THE
                > > ECK USED HIM TO CHANGE THE STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
                > > OF THE WHITE-HAIRED WOMAN.
                > >
                > > This story puts a cap on a particularly nice Living Word
                > > aspect of this talk. I've seen on many occasions how Harold
                > > will say something that will tweak the human consciousness
                > > (political or social or eck-related) , then in the same talk there
                > > would be a story that addresses what he tweaks. This is how the
                > > Living Word works.
                > >
                > > Earlier in his talk when Joan was singing, she got a little
                > > lost in singing the complete song and so it went on longer
                > > than it should have. Harold made a comment about her
                > > going on like that, and how sometimes at home he would
                > > have to say something if she talks too long. It was a very male/
                > > female comment...
                > >
                > > So here we have Harold tweaking us on the male/female
                > > thing and then later tells us a story that tries to remind us
                > > not to get stuck in male/ female categories. That they are fine,
                > > but we should not be like the white-haired lady, stuck in one
                > > or the other. We should be thinking Unisex, SOUL, beyond
                > > the categories. Change is Change (the title of the talk)... the
                > > Mahanta. He is the agent of change sent by the ECK into our
                > > bathroom to tweak us out of our stuck, white-haired old lady
                > > views. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Hu Mark_"
                > >
                > >
                > > misha wrote:
                > >
                > > For those of you wondering what great pearls of wisdom
                > > came out of Klemp's recent talk at the eckankar world wide
                > > seminar, Mark Alexander has shared some of his impressions
                > > of Klemp's speak, calling it "The Living Word." BTW, I find
                > > Mark's babbling to be more of his own discomfort in what
                > > Klemp said--that he, too, must have been troubled by Klemp's
                > > message just as well as the eckists who came up to him afterwards
                > > questioning some of Klemp's remarks.
                > > > >
                > > here's few of my thoughts on what he shared.
                > > > >
                > >
                > > 1. The bathroom story seems recycled as I read something
                > > similar in one of Klemp's transcripts years ago . . . unless
                > > Klemp still has a thing about bathrooms. It's odd he is directing
                > > chelas to do some vahana work in public restrooms now!
                > >
                > > Personally the whole bathroom talk, Unisex comments,
                > > raising a white haired lady's consciousness, etc. is really
                > > quite weird--but what can one expect from a guy who
                > > disrobed in an airport. Klemp was out of balance then, and
                > > he still is out of balance!
                > > > >
                > >
                > > 2. It seems too that he doesn't like women, especially white
                > > haired ones! I have to wonder if he loved his mother--or he
                > > wouldn't so easily put down an older woman who reacted naturally
                > > "shocked" when he entered a women's restroom. Too bad security
                > > wasn't called on Klemp for doing this--maybe, he needs another
                > > time out in a mental institution since it doesn't appear he was
                > > cured from his mental unbalance and inappropriate behavior
                > > the first time.
                > >
                > > Telling chelas on such a large stage that he sometimes tells
                > > Joan to quit talking at home, is really arrogant and disrespectful
                > > of the one he should love and treasure the most--he certainly
                > > is displaying male chauvinism and unloving behavior. Yeah,
                > > Klemp talks about a unisex society but yet the male is still
                > > dominant! LOL!
                > >
                > > I think that Klemp inviting Joan to share the stage with him,
                > > singing her little song, elevated her, but he also kept her in
                > > a subordinate role. Yep, she'll help him keep the power, but
                > > he will still run the show! So, much for equal footing--male/
                > > female! Klemp is working hard to position Joan as a co-l.e.m.
                > > but yet he isn't making it equal! But it is fun to watch his game.
                > > I suppose he doesn't want another replay like Gail naming Twitchell's
                > > replacement- -Klemp would like it to look more legitimate the
                > > next time, in case something happens to him suddenly! : )
                > > > >
                > >
                > > Anyway . . .
                > > I especially love the way Mark summed this all up in his last
                > > paragraph! Too funny! Klemp is the agent of change going
                > > into all and every public bathroom regardless of them being
                > > for women or men--by golly, Klemp is going in there and
                > > making changes . . . and his chelas are embracing this
                > > idea as they too want to help with the change that obviously
                > > can be started in such a basic and fundalmental places as
                > > restrooms. Hey, just remember if the opposite gender comes
                > > into the restroom you are using, don't be alarmed--it' s not
                > > any nut or pervert, it's just a nutty, possibly perverted
                > > eckist! So much for those special, elevated spiritual teachings! : )
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                >
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