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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Nervous Giggles on HU-Chat?! Will J.K. Still...

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  • etznab@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/6/07 8:15:58 PM Central Standard Time, ... Concerning this one sentence: Harold says as far as he s concerned the restrooms are Unisex.
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 6, 2007
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      In a message dated 11/6/07 8:15:58 PM Central Standard Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


      MA: "Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
      finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
      It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
      is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's
      room!' she says. Harold says as far as he's concerned the
      restrooms are Unisex. He mused that he wondered at how
      the ECK used him to change the state of conciousness of
      the white-haired woman."


         Concerning this one sentence:

      "Harold says as far as he's concerned the restrooms
      are Unisex."

         You might want to check the transcript on that one.

         They might not be the exact words, but I wonder if
      what Harold Klemp actually said was more along the
      lines of:

      "When there's a need, this is a Unisex."

         I'm not sure where to find an exact transcript before
      the video tape comes out, but I will be sure to look at
      the exact words used in Harold's response.

         The reason I make mention of this is that, if true, I
      find that sentence very interesting. Is it some sort of
      parable prophecy?

         Don't quote me on this, because I'm basing it on
      my notes and are not sure if I got the quote exact.

      *********

         It is only my opinion, but this bathroom episode
      illustrates that not only can one find men in places
      reserved for women only, but women in places re-
      served for men only. (When there's a need?).

         I wondered about that one story and why of all
      things did Harold share that at a Worldwide talk.
      Especially when earlier on in the talk a woman,
      (Joan, his wife) was brought up on stage. What
      was the "message" there?

         At any rate, I think it might be interesting to
      look at what Harold actually said in context to
      the words "Unisex". IMO.

         How did Harold change the consciousness
      of the white-haired lady - the consciousness
      of Eckists? By teaching that when there is a
      need things can become Unisex? Like, what
      was the point for sharing that story and the
      word "Unisex" in reply to the white-haired
      lady needing a change in consciousness?
      Was it symbolic or something?

         I'm not so sure what that word means in
      context to bathrooms except that men and
      women are both allowed. (I mean Unisex)

         Does this mean that a woman can serve
      as Living Eck Master? Was that the point?
      I'm not sure.

      Etznab

        

        



      **************************************
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    • prometheus_973
      Hi Etznab, It seems to make sense that HK would say, Any Port in a Storm or something like that when referring to using a restroom. It seems obvious from
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 7, 2007
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        Hi Etznab,
        It seems to make sense that HK would say, "Any
        Port in a Storm" or something like that when referring
        to using a restroom. It seems obvious from comments
        of Joan, in Klemp's "Wonderful" book, and then having
        her on stage with him that he is preparing to make Joan
        the LEM. Of course, this "change" goes against the ECK
        Dogma, but "Change is Change" and he's the Mahanta
        and that means he can use the Catch-22 rule! Therefore,
        Joan can go where the "men" go (like those "just men"
        of the Vairagi Adepts, pg.222, Eckankar Lexicon).

        However, Klemp now had to have a story to justify him
        using a women's restroom. He can't be included in the
        women's club... that would be a step down for him! He'd
        rather be seen as a UNISEX/eunuch for some reason! Actually,
        Klemp's story Did raise the consciousness of some Eckists
        that now see him a new "changed" light of day! These newly
        enlightened Eckists see the Truth and the real Klemp for
        what he is... a deranged fool and a religious fraud.

        And, if Mark wants to think that Eckists are the "White-
        Haired Old Lady" that need to experience this "Change"
        then good for him.

        Maybe Eckists need to become "Unisex" and practice Chastity
        ... the real Virtue opposite Lust. Maybe the real "change" is
        to present the Passions of the Mind and their "Actual" Remedies
        instead of those altered for the Western student. And, Maybe
        HK & JK are each eager for the Chaste life?!

        BTW- The use of any restroom (Any Port in a Storm) is
        nothing new for many men including myself. And, I've
        known many women that have done the same as Joan.
        However, I'll usually go into the men's restroom first to
        make sure it's all clear for my female friends.

        But, once again, What is this teaching Eck parents and
        the Eck Youth? Should 10 year old girls be going into the
        Mens room?! I don't think so! Therefore what should Eckists
        think about Klemp's reckless restroom comments to the Eck
        membership as a whole? The unbalanced Eckists need sane
        guidance with common sense!

        However, after over 20 years together (and doing the
        restroom thing back and forth) over these years it all
        of a sudden NOW has some significance for Joan. LOL!
        I wonder! Was Harry changing the consciousness of all
        within ear range as he had at that airport before his arrest
        in 1970!

        Anyway, it has to be disappointing to Peter, Don, Doug,
        Bob and others that the Klemp's will still be running
        the show! It'll be like a TWO ring circus!



        Prometheus


        MA: "Harold and Joan were shopping. Joan went
        to the restroom, found a White-Haired Lady waiting
        for the Women's room. The Men's room was not
        occupied, so Joan asked the lady why she didn't use
        it. The woman said that it was for men only.

        Harold said that he and Joan have a policy of using
        'ANY PORT IN THE STORM.' So Joan went into the
        Men's room. Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking
        for a restroom, finds the Men's room locked, so he
        tries the Women's room. It's unlocked, he enters, and
        of course the White-Haired Lady is there.

        She looks at him shocked. 'BUT THIS IS THE WOMEN's
        ROOM!' she says. Harold says as far as he's concerned
        the restrooms are Unisex. He (HK) Mused that he wondered
        at how the ECK used him to change the State of Consciousness
        of the White-Haired Woman."



        etznab wrote:
        prometheus writes:
        >
        >
        MA: "Meanwhile, Harold comes along looking for a restroom,
        finds the Men's room locked, so he tries the Women's room.
        It's unlocked, he enters, and of course the white-haired lady
        is there. She looks at him shocked. 'But this is the Women's
        room!' she says. Harold says as far as he's concerned the
        restrooms are Unisex. He mused that he wondered at how
        the ECK used him to change the state of conciousness of
        the white-haired woman."
        > >
        >
        >Concerning this one sentence:
        >
        > "Harold says as far as he's concerned the restrooms
        > are Unisex."
        >
        > You might want to check the transcript on that one.
        >
        > They might not be the exact words, but I wonder if
        > what Harold Klemp actually said was more along the
        > lines of:
        >
        > "When there's a need, this is a Unisex."
        >
        > I'm not sure where to find an exact transcript before
        > the video tape comes out, but I will be sure to look at
        > the exact words used in Harold's response.
        >
        > The reason I make mention of this is that, if true, I
        > find that sentence very interesting. Is it some sort of
        > parable prophecy?
        >
        > Don't quote me on this, because I'm basing it on
        > my notes and are not sure if I got the quote exact.
        >
        > *********
        >
        > It is only my opinion, but this bathroom episode
        > illustrates that not only can one find men in places
        > reserved for women only, but women in places re-
        > served for men only. (When there's a need?).
        >
        > I wondered about that one story and why of all
        > things did Harold share that at a Worldwide talk.
        > Especially when earlier on in the talk a woman,
        > (Joan, his wife) was brought up on stage. What
        > was the "message" there?
        >
        > At any rate, I think it might be interesting to
        > look at what Harold actually said in context to
        > the words "Unisex". IMO.
        >
        > How did Harold change the consciousness
        > of the white-haired lady - the consciousness
        > of Eckists? By teaching that when there is a
        > need things can become Unisex? Like, what
        > was the point for sharing that story and the
        > word "Unisex" in reply to the white-haired
        > lady needing a change in consciousness?
        > Was it symbolic or something?
        >
        > I'm not so sure what that word means in
        > context to bathrooms except that men and
        > women are both allowed. (I mean Unisex)
        >
        > Does this mean that a woman can serve
        > as Living Eck Master? Was that the point?
        > I'm not sure.
        >
        > Etznab
      • Elizabeth
        Hi Etznab, Women have been (as you know), and can become eck masters, so says HK in his book Those Wonderful Eck Masters. He has revealed that there are FEMs
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 7, 2007
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          Hi Etznab,
           
          Women have been (as you know), and can become eck masters, so says HK in his book Those Wonderful Eck Masters.  He has revealed that there are FEMs that are un named....    PT has named a couple of these FEMs.  As I see it, Now is the best time to make those un named FEMs from the past, and current, known!  Hmmm,   is Mother Teresa going to be named one of the secret female eck masters.....  Since this teaching has had a history of plucking well known spiritual teachers / leaders from history and claiming them as their eck masters!
           
          Can a female serve as co eck master in this day and age?    Sure....   Coughing up a FLEM  isn't all that difficult!
           
          There is a whole society of souls who wish to be gender non specific, or are homosexual (females)  or heterosexual females who have had a difficult time accepting chauvinistic males?  Over the years, many females have expressed their distaste for male dominant rolls in society, and within the eck teachings!  As you know we could, in the very near future have a female president!  
           
          So, does this unisex topic show that there is a spiritual shift taking place within the org, and the whole universe?  Some higher power telling Klemp it is time to reveal those female eck masters?  After all, wouldn't it be logical that the org could expand "his" wealth by announcing a newly elevated female eck master?  The membership has really become enthralled with Klemp's second wife.   Mish has pointed out, Klemp is placing Joan in people's dreams using her as the mediator. By analogy, someone who channels contact between mortals and divinity; e.g. In eckankar, Joan is sometimes referred to as the mediator between humanity and the Godman of the entire universe. 
           
          PT and DG never placed such a high regard for Gail....  Sure she was always present and active within the org.,   Gail was never placed center stag with a current LEM as HK has done with Joan.  Sure Gail introduced the new LEM to the membership, that was the obvious roll she needed to play. 
           
           
          Etznab wrote:   Does this mean that a woman can serve
          As Living Eck Master? Was that the point?
          I'm not sure.
           
          Stay tuned Etznab,  Mish and Prometheus has predicted a co FLEM ever since Klemp's  book  came out.  Probably ruining the surprise....  So HK has to consult the Suggie to see how he can accomplish making this FLEM idea "his" idea!   How will he ever pull off explaining how ex eckists knew this before his membership ever did?   Stay tuned.....   ;-)
           
          Darn....    I should have stayed in the teachings!   I was well on my way of becoming a FLEM too.  ;-) 
           
          Liz
           
              
        • Elizabeth
          Another thought... How will Klemp explain that the non eckists community had more sense to elect a female president, than he did in elevating or announcing
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 7, 2007
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            Another thought...
             
            How will Klemp explain that the non eckists community had more sense to elect a female president, than he did in elevating or announcing past FEMs, or a co FLEM?   Wouldn't that raise some eyebrows within his membership, that the lowly un spiritual general population of the US has more sense to eliminate male chauvinism, before him?  Hmmm
             
            Liz
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            From: Elizabeth
            Date: 11/7/2007 8:30:00 AM
            Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Nervous Giggles on HU-Chat?! Will J.K. Still...
             
             
             
            Hi Etznab,
             
            Women have been (as you know), and can become eck masters, so says HK in his book Those Wonderful Eck Masters.  He has revealed that there are FEMs that are un named....    PT has named a couple of these FEMs.  As I see it, Now is the best time to make those un named FEMs from the past, and current, known!  Hmmm,   is Mother Teresa going to be named one of the secret female eck masters.....  Since this teaching has had a history of plucking well known spiritual teachers / leaders from history and claiming them as their eck masters!
             
            Can a female serve as co eck master in this day and age?    Sure....   Coughing up a FLEM  isn't all that difficult!
             
            There is a whole society of souls who wish to be gender non specific, or are homosexual (females)  or heterosexual females who have had a difficult time accepting chauvinistic males?  Over the years, many females have expressed their distaste for male dominant rolls in society, and within the eck teachings!  As you know we could, in the very near future have a female president!  
             
            So, does this unisex topic show that there is a spiritual shift taking place within the org, and the whole universe?  Some higher power telling Klemp it is time to reveal those female eck masters?  After all, wouldn't it be logical that the org could expand "his" wealth by announcing a newly elevated female eck master?  The membership has really become enthralled with Klemp's second wife.   Mish has pointed out, Klemp is placing Joan in people's dreams using her as the mediator. By analogy, someone who channels contact between mortals and divinity; e.g. In eckankar, Joan is sometimes referred to as the mediator between humanity and the Godman of the entire universe. 
             
            PT and DG never placed such a high regard for Gail....  Sure she was always present and active within the org.,   Gail was never placed center stag with a current LEM as HK has done with Joan.  Sure Gail introduced the new LEM to the membership, that was the obvious roll she needed to play. 
             
             
            Etznab wrote:   Does this mean that a woman can serve
            As Living Eck Master? Was that the point?
            I'm not sure.
             
            Stay tuned Etznab,  Mish and Prometheus has predicted a co FLEM ever since Klemp's  book  came out.  Probably ruining the surprise....  So HK has to consult the Suggie to see how he can accomplish making this FLEM idea "his" idea!   How will he ever pull off explaining how ex eckists knew this before his membership ever did?   Stay tuned.....   ;-)
             
            Darn....    I should have stayed in the teachings!   I was well on my way of becoming a FLEM too.  ;-) 
             
            Liz
             
                
             
          • mishmisha9
            Hi, Etznab, Liz and All! What one, especially eckists, have to ask themselves is why is Klemp whittling away at change now? Is this really of pure, valid
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 7, 2007
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              Hi, Etznab, Liz and All!

              What one, especially eckists, have to ask themselves is why
              is Klemp whittling away at "change" now? Is this really of
              pure, valid higher spiritual consciousness or is it just a ploy for
              self-serving and selfish reasons by both Klemp and his
              co-hort Joan? The use of restroom facilities beyond the
              basics is just plain silly, not to mention annoying as examplified
              by crazy Klemp confronting the white haired lady--potentially
              creating a larger disturbance as someone might indeed go beyond
              being shocked and will scream out for proper authoritative
              help, as in security personnel! : )

              As for Klemp's exact words in telling his restroom/unisex story
              in his talk, I only posted Mark Alexander's spin on it--Mark's
              words. However, a few other eckists who heard the talk seem
              to agree that this is what Klemp said, albeit not verbatim. I
              don't think it really matters the exact quote of HK's words as
              the essence has come through, and it is just a continuation of
              what his "real" message is in his book "Those Wonderful ECK
              Masters"--that Joan is now an eck master and in line to help
              Klemp maintain the rod of eck power, such as it is! LOL!

              Those eckists like h.i. Mark who like to delve into the actual
              meaning of Klemp's stories appear not to have figured this out
              yet, but once they do, I can predict that many will be having
              "vivid" dreams with Joan assisting them in connecting with
              her husband the mahanta. They will smile, perhaps, slap their
              hands on their foreheads and say, "oh, yes, now I see it!" And
              their foolish belief system will continue to "work" for them as
              they surrender more time and money to the fake mahanta/l.e.m.
              and his co-l.e.m. The "eck" will continue for years and years to
              come, for as long as Klemp and Joan need it to last for them.

              Surely, there is more to life than being duped by man-made,
              self-serving religions like eckankar--these cults are all distractions
              meant to control for a myriad of selfish "man" reasons. These are
              not spiritual or the real connection with our Higher Consciousness!

              The real connection is personal and comes down to learning how
              to do the right thing for ourselves and others as we go about our
              daily habits of living and hopefully enjoying this wonderful planet!

              Mish


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "Elizabeth" <ewickings@...> wrote:
              >
              > Another thought...
              >
              > How will Klemp explain that the non eckists community had more sense to
              > elect a female president, than he did in elevating or announcing past FEMs,
              > or a co FLEM? Wouldn't that raise some eyebrows within his membership,
              > that the lowly un spiritual general population of the US has more sense to
              > eliminate male chauvinism, before him? Hmmm
              >
              > Liz
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              > From: Elizabeth
              > Date: 11/7/2007 8:30:00 AM
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Nervous Giggles on HU-Chat?! Will
              > J.K. Still...
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Etznab,
              >
              > Women have been (as you know), and can become eck masters, so says HK in his
              > book Those Wonderful Eck Masters. He has revealed that there are FEMs that
              > are un named.... PT has named a couple of these FEMs. As I see it, Now
              > is the best time to make those un named FEMs from the past, and current,
              > known! Hmmm, is Mother Teresa going to be named one of the secret female
              > eck masters..... Since this teaching has had a history of plucking well
              > known spiritual teachers / leaders from history and claiming them as their
              > eck masters!
              >
              > Can a female serve as co eck master in this day and age? Sure....
              > Coughing up a FLEM isn't all that difficult!
              >
              > There is a whole society of souls who wish to be gender non specific, or are
              > homosexual (females) or heterosexual females who have had a difficult time
              > accepting chauvinistic males? Over the years, many females have expressed
              > their distaste for male dominant rolls in society, and within the eck
              > teachings! As you know we could, in the very near future have a female
              > president!
              >
              > So, does this unisex topic show that there is a spiritual shift taking place
              > within the org, and the whole universe? Some higher power telling Klemp it
              > is time to reveal those female eck masters? After all, wouldn't it be
              > logical that the org could expand "his" wealth by announcing a newly
              > elevated female eck master? The membership has really become enthralled
              > with Klemp's second wife. Mish has pointed out, Klemp is placing Joan in
              > people's dreams using her as the mediator. By analogy, someone who channels
              > contact between mortals and divinity; e.g. In eckankar, Joan is sometimes
              > referred to as the mediator between humanity and the Godman of the entire
              > universe.
              >
              > PT and DG never placed such a high regard for Gail.... Sure she was always
              > present and active within the org., Gail was never placed center stag with
              > a current LEM as HK has done with Joan. Sure Gail introduced the new LEM to
              > the membership, that was the obvious roll she needed to play.
              >
              >
              > Etznab wrote: Does this mean that a woman can serve
              > As Living Eck Master? Was that the point?
              > I'm not sure.
              >
              >
              > Stay tuned Etznab, Mish and Prometheus has predicted a co FLEM ever since
              > Klemp's book came out. Probably ruining the surprise.... So HK has to
              > consult the Suggie to see how he can accomplish making this FLEM idea "his"
              > idea! How will he ever pull off explaining how ex eckists knew this before
              > his membership ever did? Stay tuned..... ;-)
              >
              > Darn.... I should have stayed in the teachings! I was well on my way of
              > becoming a FLEM too. ;-)
              >
              > Liz
              >
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