Re:Female ECK Masters, Kata Daki and ECK Master in the making Joan Klemp!
- Hi Mish,
Here are excerpts from the Sept. 2007 Mystic World
article that Mark Alexander was referring to:
["The following Q&A is courtesy of the Letter of
ASK the MASTER by HK:
"Q: WHO was the first person, and HOW did that
person get here?"
BTW-There is no name given for the person who
submitted this question and the Letter of Light
Vol. and No. for the original article is not mentioned
So, Klemp has two questions to answer... WHO and HOW.
HK's Answer: "The FIRST PERSON had NO NAME."
ME: Well, what was he called? How about ADOM?
Maybe Klemp should refresh his memory by looking
at page 162 of his Eckankar Lexicon.
HK: "Polarians. The first root race which lived in Polara,
the GARDEN of EDEN; the Adamic race; ADOM was
the FIRST MAN and EDE, the FIRST WOMAN; the
beginning of the races of man upon earth."
BTW- Who did Adom and Ede's children breed with?
Were their kids named Cane and Abe? PT likes to switch
letters around so this would make sense! LOL!
ME: Here's something interesting -
[July 2007 Letter of Light Questions for the Master]:
"Dear Mahanta, Does our religion believe in Adam and
HK: "In a word, NO. ... So, practice silence in regard
to the story of ADAM and EVE if possible. Yet should
someone press you, say that your religion is something
you DO NOT wish to talk about. Then remain silent or
try to turn the conversation to another subject, like sports."
ME: Klemp is a liar and a manipulator and is trying to
get the ECK YOUTH to do the same!
Okay, now for Klemp's Second Question:
HK: "HOW did that FIRST PERSON get here? ... 'So how
did the FIRST TWO people, OR MORE, come into bodies
in the HIGH MENTAL PLANE?' (EVERYTHING HERE COMES
IN TWOs.) They Materialized. It was a bit like STAR TREK...
They just seem to appear as if by MAGIC... yet there are
LAWS of SCIENCE at work that allow for an orderly TRANSFER
of ATOMS [or ADOMs?] that make up a human body."
ME: So, is HK giving credit to Magic, Sci-fi, or to Science
for HOW the "First Person" got here? I can see why Mark
didn't want to post this crap. It's embarrassing! Say! Didn't
NOAH pair up animals and had them come onto the ARK
two by two? Yes, I can see where MARK A. can draw his
assumptions that this is HK's Eunuch/Unisex Code for
Joan becoming the next LEM. LOL! When was this Letter of
Light article, on this subject, first written Mark? LOL!
This proves that ECKists become more delusional as they
climb the initiation ladder! Joan will become the next LEM,
but the hint is in Klemp's "Wonderful" book of two years
> The Law of the One, Unisex, oh, my! : )
> A re-visit to an old ESA post and the "slow to get it"
> post by Mark Alexander over on HuChat!
> Beginning here with Mark Alexander's post on HuChat
> today, Mark wrote his interpretation of the message
> that Harold Klemp has been trying to put out there
> for his chelas for at least two years now--please note that
> Klemp is never direct unless he is very angry and blurts out
> something nasty! LOL!
> Anyway, it seems that h.i. Mark A. is finally tuning into Klemp's
> plans to elevate Joan into a position (we have speculated this
> for almost two years now) of co-l.e.m. I wonder if Mark read
> Klemp's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters?" Seems that if he
> did he missed the living word gleaning out from that book! : )
> Chelas, including exhaulted h.i.'s like Mark A., are just not so
> quick on the beat! No wonder Klemp thinks he is the highest
> consciousness known to mankind--when he has all these
> dummies failing to catch on to his scheme. Klemp thinks he is
> keeping it simple, but obviously, chelas aren't getting it!
> The following is Mark's message explaining how he has finally
> been able to decipher his master's words and following his
> comments is my old post on this site from Jan. 2006 predicting
> that Klemp will try to elevate Joan into a position close in rank
> to his:
> Mark wrote:
> [HU-Chat] The Living Word, Part 2
> My wife and I led a September 2007 Mystic World discussion class last
> night and I wanted to point to another aspect of how the Mahanta
> works as the Living Word. Since the Mystic World is confidential for
> ECK members, I will not talk directly about content.
> You'll recall in the post about Harold's talk, I mentioned the men's
> and women's room, and Harold's mention of unisex, pointing to the
> reality of these dual worlds while we aim to keep our attention on
> Soul within them.
> This theme resonates strongly through The Mystic World in ways I
> think most ECKists miss.
> Just like his talks, when I read The Mystic World or the HI
> Newsletter, I look for the Living Word, the ECK unity in the
> writings. The Mystic World has a mystic aspect to it, a waking dream
> aspect, a symbol aspect, not consciously created necessarily, but a
> direct and necessary consequence of the Mahanta Wave that comes out
> when the Living ECK Master speaks or writes.
> So I looked at the title article and realized that it focuses on
> Twos, duality, polarity. That resonated with the talk. I then noticed
> that there were two photos on page 2, two photos on page 3, two on
> pages 4 and 5, and of course there's always 2 photos of Harold on the
> front and back pages.
> Just a coincidence? I started seeing twos everywhere. Two poems on
> pages 2 and 5, two books written about, two Questions of the Master,
> two letters on pages 2 and 3, and 2 more on pages 4 and 5.
> And of course, the Wisdom note, with 2 sets of 2 poems, and mention
> of "couplets.'
> I showed it to my wife, who then read through The Mystic World and
> found the Golden-Tongue Wisdom clincher in Harold's response to the
> 2nd question. Look at the 4th or 5th paragraph and look at what
> Harold writes within the parentheses.
> Cool, eh?
> I'm sure you will find more twos if you look.
> So there it is. The foundation on which he builds his other themes of
> Law of the One (Unisex, Soul) and also Wisdom (remember the
> philosophers joke he told at the seminar on wisdom.)
> It's all a wonderful miracle of a Waking Dream Living Word Shariyat
> ### end of Mark's post--"Law of the One," meaning Klemp and Joan
> are the One?? If you will, read my old post below:
> Foreward ESA post from Jan. 2006:
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
> <mishmisha9@> wrote:
> From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," page 62, there is this
> description of the female ECK Master, Kata Daki:
> "Kata Daki (KAH-tah DAH-kee) is an ECK Master in the Ancient Order
> of the Vairai Adepts, who is a woman. Although her true age is
> beyond belief, she appears to be in her midtwenties to early
> thirties. Like all ECK Masters, she serves the Sugmad (God) by
> helping others find the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
> From page 63, Klemp writes:
> "Before we get too far along, we need to say a word about the female
> members in the Vairagi Order. There are precious few of them in
> relation to the number of males, and it is for a good reason.
> In past ages, and sometimes even today, it was easier for a male to
> move about in harsh societies and environments. So a Soul that had
> earned the right to incarnate into a lifetime devoted to the quest
> for Mastership often chose a male body. It was simply easier to get
> around in."
> So, there are not, as we know, as many female eck masters; however,
> the reason is that in the past it was harder as a female to move
> around in society. Souls who wanted to achieve mastership most of
> the time chose to incarnate as males. Today, it is not as difficult;
> therefore, we can expect to see more female ECK Masters today--this
> is what Klemp is implying IMO!
> All ECK Masters "help others find the Mahanta, the Living ECK
> Master," and it seems that Joan is doing this in some chelas'
> dreams. Klemp writes stories in which Joan is appearing in dreams
> and introducing/taking chelas to meet the Master! The following two
> excerpts from "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" demonstrate that Joan is
> in the process or has achieved Eck Mastership. How else is she
> showing up in these dreams if she is not a master or a master in
> training? I don't believe that anything has ever been written about
> wives (Gail?) of any other L.E.M./Mahanta appearing in chelas'
> dreams. The fact that Joan is doing this is highly unusual and
> suspect! LOL!
> From page 101, Klemp writes this story:
> A chela named Robert "awoke in a lifelike dream.
> A woman approached him.
> 'I'm Harold Klemp's wife,' she said. 'I want to welcome you to
> Eckankar. My husband will help you anytime and in any way he can.'
> then Wah Z (a name for me on the inner planes), the Inner Master,
> entered the room.
> His wife continued, 'I want to introduce you to my husband.'
> Wah Z repeated, 'Yes, I will help you in any way I can.'"
> So there we have it--clearly, Joan is helping others in dreams to
> find the mahanta, so doesn't this make her an eck master?? And as
> such she can be in training to become the next L.E.M.! I think this
> might be the preparation that is paving the way for Klemp to put his
> wife right up there beside him in leadership. Joan will be the next
> L.E.M. serving with her aging husband Harold who will maintain the
> Here's an excerpt from one other story, page 234, in another chela's
> "One day Kate was delivering a package to the Master's house. Joan,
> his wife, brought her into the kitchen, where the Master stood at
> the kitchen sink. He was preparing dinner. . . . "
> Once again the eck master Joan is linking a chela up with the
> Master! Doesn't this make one wonder how and why Joan is appearing
> in chelas' dreams! Isn't she intruding? Or is it because she is
> indeed an eck master, a female one, just like Kata Daki? Perhaps,
> the reason why Joan was so upset with the temporary postal clerk
> (09/2003 H.I. Letter story that has been discussed previously in
> some other posts/archived on this site)is because he failed to
> recognize who she really was, a very important and to be respected
> eck master! LOL!
> --- End forwarded message ---
> Okay, the end of my nearly two year old post and some new
> comments as well--
> Klemp tried to do the K.I.S.S. approach for these eckists (Keep It
> Simple Soul), but now needs to approach the subject with a Keep It
> Simple STUPID slant. The "KISS" is both for Klemp and Mark and the
> other H.I.s that are now second guessing HK's obscure intent with
> an assumed 20/20 hind-sight revelation!
> But I guess it is no surprise how these eckists struggle with what
> their master means, because when joining a cult like eckankar, the
> followers are doing nothing more than putting blinders on and
> maintaining their tunnel vision!
> The only thing of substance written (whether copied/plagiarized) in
> eckankar was written by Twitchell. Klemp certainly is no mental
> giant and is lacking in spiritual understanding. Klemp has only been
> hiding out behind the "teachings" from facing his own life. This is
> why he won't readily give up his power and needs to have Joan
> instituted in a position of power and glory to help him maintain
> his throne!