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Dreams [according to Eckankar]

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  • prometheus_973
    I was watching the 1984 David Lynch movie DUNE recently and noticed where Waking Dream was mentioned. When did Klemp first mention this term? Twitchell and
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 26, 2007
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      I was watching the 1984 David Lynch movie "DUNE"
      recently and noticed where "Waking Dream" was
      mentioned. When did Klemp first mention this term?
      Twitchell and Gross never said anything about "Waking
      Dreams" and neither did Klemp until years after this
      movie was made!

      It's interesting that I really never paid attention to this
      movie until 1990. Prior to this my Sci-fi focus was more
      with Star Wars and Star Trek.

      Anyway, I decided to look at Klemp's 1998 Eckankar
      Lexicon and thought I'd analyze his comments on dreams.

      "Waking Dream-A form of the Golden-Tongued Wisdom,
      which is a form of the ECK-Vidya working in your daily life..."

      Now what's interesting here is Klemp Doesn't mention
      "WAKING DREAM" or "GOLDEN-TONGUED WISDOM" in
      his 1986 printing of Twitchell's ECKANKAR Dictionary!
      And, Twitchell Does Not mention either term in his
      discontinued "ECK-Vidya" book or in either Shariyat!

      Therefore, this specific "Ancient EK Teaching" was only
      concocted by Klemp recently (after 1986) and maybe via
      David Lynch's influence or via the IRO's sent to Klemp!
      Klemp simply learned the trickery of Twitchell! The source
      of the Waking Dream concept may have been the Astral or
      Mental Plane and tapped into via other people's imaginations,
      but it wasn't an Original Concept by Klemp or from his
      imagination and/or consciousness!

      BTW- Here are some other interesting DREAM definitions
      by HK in his (1998) LexiCon.

      "DREAMS-ONE of THREE States of Consciousness of HUMANS;
      the other two are WAKING and SLEEPING..."

      Therefore, the parts of the HUMAM STATE of CONSCIOUSNESS
      are DREAMS, being AWAKE, and SLEEPING (without dreams or
      via Soul Travel, etc.?).

      WHY does Eckankar stress Dream Study, Dream Travel, and
      sells Dream Journals when this (Dream State) is just a state
      of the Human Consciousness?

      "DREAM TRAVEL-Travel in the DREAM STATE; the FIRST STEP
      to Soul Travel."

      So, if DREAM TRAVEL is the "FIRST STEP to SOUL TRAVEL"
      WHY is it discussed, studied, and written about as much as
      it is? All Eckists, including H.I.s, study Dream Travel and
      Dream Travel Techniques, as well as, Keeping a Dream Journal!
      Light Pens Anyone! LOL!

      "DREAM STATE-Awareness on the level of EMOTION, the
      ASTRAL PLANE..."

      Once again, most DREAM EXPERIENCES are ASTRAL PLANE
      experiences according to Klemp's own definitions, and yet this
      is where the ECK teachings begin and end! Look at what Klemp
      has been teaching to ECKists for 25 years! It's pitiful...
      but expected! [BTW- I wonder if ECKists will write to the ESC
      or HK about the episode that South Park did on imagination?]

      "DREAM TEACHINGS- ... to assist the NEOPHYTE in his
      spiritual unfoldment."

      "NEOPHYTE-An aspirant; A BEGINNER IN THE ECK SPIRITUAL
      WORKS."

      After 25 years with Klemp some ECKists are finally Waking Up
      and realizing how worthless their initiations are. Others are
      just playing the same old ego games... it must feel good for
      these dysfunctional H.I. narcissists to have all the answers! LOL!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I recently had an email stating that I might find Aristotle interesting on dreams and prophecy, and How could anything under the sun or inside this
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 30, 2007
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        Hello All,
        I recently had an email stating that I might find
        Aristotle interesting on dreams and prophecy,
        and How could anything under the sun or inside
        this 'matrix' be original? This, it seems, was in
        reference to my statement that Klemp was unoriginal
        and deceptive. HK made the "Waking Dream" term
        and information his own (and Eckankar's) years after
        the 1984 movie "Dune" made this "Waking Dream"
        concept popular.

        Aristotle might have had the first intellegent perspective
        on these two subjects, (dreams and prophecy) but it
        was not a complete work or the last... it was a beginning
        for all of us to use without the need for "experts" like
        Klemp. These physical, emotional, mental and spiritual
        experiences of life, in general, is both a group and a
        personal subjective experience via objective criteria.

        Anyway, here are two interesting sites you might want
        to explore on what Aristole said regarding dreams:

        http://www.classics.mit.edu
        http://www.birdhouse.org/dreams/archive/dream7.html

        http://www.dreamhawk.com/d-aristo.htm

        Now these sites, by Tony Crisp, are especially interesting.
        This one is- Features on Dreams, Meditation, Health and Sex:

        http://www.dreamhawk.com/features.htm#People


        Here's information on Mesmer's views on dreaming:
        http://www.dreamhawk.com/mmcha9.htm#mesmer


        Here's information on - Feeling Low and Feeling High:
        http://www.dreamhawk.com/meditate.htm


        This next Tony Crisp site is where Klemp could have
        gotten his ideas for his gender blending public restroom
        seminar talk-
        http://www.dreamhawk.com/gender.htm

        Anyway, check out more of what Tony Crisp has to say
        about "The History of Physical and Spiritual Healing in
        Different Cultures."

        Prometheus






        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > I was watching the 1984 David Lynch movie "DUNE"
        > recently and noticed where "Waking Dream" was
        > mentioned. When did Klemp first mention this term?
        > Twitchell and Gross never said anything about "Waking
        > Dreams" and neither did Klemp until years after this
        > movie was made!
        >
        > It's interesting that I really never paid attention to this
        > movie until 1990. Prior to this my Sci-fi focus was more
        > with Star Wars and Star Trek.
        >
        > Anyway, I decided to look at Klemp's 1998 Eckankar
        > Lexicon and thought I'd analyze his comments on dreams.
        >
        > "Waking Dream-A form of the Golden-Tongued Wisdom,
        > which is a form of the ECK-Vidya working in your daily life..."
        >
        > Now what's interesting here is Klemp Doesn't mention
        > "WAKING DREAM" or "GOLDEN-TONGUED WISDOM" in
        > his 1986 printing of Twitchell's ECKANKAR Dictionary!
        > And, Twitchell Does Not mention either term in his
        > discontinued "ECK-Vidya" book or in either Shariyat!
        >
        > Therefore, this specific "Ancient EK Teaching" was only
        > concocted by Klemp recently (after 1986) and maybe via
        > David Lynch's influence or via the IRO's sent to Klemp!
        > Klemp simply learned the trickery of Twitchell! The source
        > of the Waking Dream concept may have been the Astral or
        > Mental Plane and tapped into via other people's imaginations,
        > but it wasn't an Original Concept by Klemp or from his
        > imagination and/or consciousness!
        >
        > BTW- Here are some other interesting DREAM definitions
        > by HK in his (1998) LexiCon.
        >
        > "DREAMS-ONE of THREE States of Consciousness of HUMANS;
        > the other two are WAKING and SLEEPING..."
        >
        > Therefore, the parts of the HUMAM STATE of CONSCIOUSNESS
        > are DREAMS, being AWAKE, and SLEEPING (without dreams or
        > via Soul Travel, etc.?).
        >
        > WHY does Eckankar stress Dream Study, Dream Travel, and
        > sells Dream Journals when this (Dream State) is just a state
        > of the Human Consciousness?
        >
        > "DREAM TRAVEL-Travel in the DREAM STATE; the FIRST STEP
        > to Soul Travel."
        >
        > So, if DREAM TRAVEL is the "FIRST STEP to SOUL TRAVEL"
        > WHY is it discussed, studied, and written about as much as
        > it is? All Eckists, including H.I.s, study Dream Travel and
        > Dream Travel Techniques, as well as, Keeping a Dream Journal!
        > Light Pens Anyone! LOL!
        >
        > "DREAM STATE-Awareness on the level of EMOTION, the
        > ASTRAL PLANE..."
        >
        > Once again, most DREAM EXPERIENCES are ASTRAL PLANE
        > experiences according to Klemp's own definitions, and yet this
        > is where the ECK teachings begin and end! Look at what Klemp
        > has been teaching to ECKists for 25 years! It's pitiful...
        > but expected! [BTW- I wonder if ECKists will write to the ESC
        > or HK about the episode that South Park did on imagination?]
        >
        > "DREAM TEACHINGS- ... to assist the NEOPHYTE in his
        > spiritual unfoldment."
        >
        > "NEOPHYTE-An aspirant; A BEGINNER IN THE ECK SPIRITUAL
        > WORKS."
        >
        > After 25 years with Klemp some ECKists are finally Waking Up
        > and realizing how worthless their initiations are. Others are
        > just playing the same old ego games... it must feel good for
        > these dysfunctional H.I. narcissists to have all the answers! LOL!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
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