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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 945

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  • Sharon
    E-kult s inner is a joke, and only applies to situations which increase the cult s power and control, their hold on the cult member, in some way. It s okay
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 18, 2007
       
      E-kult's "inner" is a joke, and only applies to situations which increase the cult's power and control, their hold on the cult member, in some way. 
       
      It's okay to attend a seminar "on the inner" only if there was no way you could attend "for real", because that makes you feel like a part of that greater whole.  It was okay when I "attended" our satsang group's hu-chant 'on the inner" when they all went to a seminar but I couldn't go.   The HI said they "knew" I was there with them.  But, after this HI had started a new Satsang discourse series, she called me to tell me that I was "out" and could not attend anymore because I'd missed three sessions.  I was very hurt, and said that I'd done Satsang "on the inner" because I was too ill to get there in person.  She said that didn't matter.  I was especially upset because that meant my son couldn't go either - he didn't drive, and Satsang was a 45 minute drive. 
       
      Years before, I'd spoken to my previous HI about my not being able to get to Satsang regularly - it was quite a drive, and on a school night.  I'd read the rules about not missing  3 in a series.  She told me it was okay to attend whenever I (with my son) was able to, that it was like a spiritual vitamin and we needed our spiritual nourishment.   The 2nd HI said she'd learned to just follow the rules without question. 
       
      I was devastated about being kicked out of Satsang.  I felt like a good sincere Catholic would feel if they'd missed Mass and Communion because of illness and been banned from going for the rest of the year.   Except in Catholicism, your parish priest does a home visit and brings communion to ill parishioners.  Most Christian churches do stuff like that.  So, where's the love in e-kult's attendance policies?   The first HI got in trouble later for not following the rules and sending in attendance reports & donations quickly enough.  Heck, we used to joke about eckankar *not* being a cult because they weren't interested in money - we all just stuffed our donations in the basket, and when it got full, eventually someone would send it in.
       
      I doubt if Harold will ever give up his power and pass the "rod", and I doubt that he'll name Joan as co-LEM, but you never know!   Isn't she younger than he is?   Ha, I think maybe Kunin might do - after all, he exhibited the same "masterly" behavior when he, like Klemp, dumped his wife and the mother of his children and married his office-girl mistress.
       
      It'll be interesting, I'm sure.  I have a feeling Klemp's transition might be just as ridiculous as the two previous rod-passings were.
       
      Have a great one, everyone!
       
      Hugs,
       
      Sharon
      There is 1 message in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1a. Re: Klemp Should Have Stepped Down Long Ago!
      From: prometheus_973


      Message
      ________________________________________________________________________

      1a. Re: Klemp Should Have Stepped Down Long Ago!
      Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
      Date: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

      IMO-The KAL always wants ECKists to attend the
      ECK Seminars in order to waste their hard earned
      Vahana money on travel and hotel expenses versus
      attending on the "Inner."

      Isn't this "inner connection" via Soul Travel the
      "special" attribute that makes Eckankar and ECKists
      different from others and more "spiritually advanced"
      from the other religious herds? So, WHY is it necessary
      to attend on the outer and make a pilgrimage to the
      Temple on the physical versus the higher inner planes,
      especially, for H.I.s?

      WHY is it necessary for H.I.s to even "write" a Monthly
      Initiate Report (IRO/HIRO) IF there is Always/Constantly
      an "inner" communication taking place? WHY do ECK
      H.I.s need this "lower" physical act to demonstrate
      discipline, and to communicate with their 14th initiate
      leader?

      WHY is Klemp attached to Astral Plane emotions,
      and Physical Plane limitations? Afterall, ECKists not
      only have to go through metal detectors for Klemp's
      Saturday night talk (due to his fears), but they have
      to get their inspiration from outer talks and words
      just as other religious followers do!

      So what is it that makes Eckankar "better" than other
      religions? The proof is in the pudding! Just look at these
      ECK H.I.s! Or, better yet, just talk to and listen to them!
      Anyone can memorize an ECK brochure, but what do they
      really say and how do they really behave away from the
      seminar? They're no different from anyone else (for good
      or bad) regardless of initiation level. WHY? Because the
      EK initiations, except for what's printed on paper, don't
      exist in reality. Only the imagination can fulfill the hopes
      and dreams of those who believe. This is WHY and HOW
      religions work for the masses... including ECKists!

      Prometheus




      mish wrote:


      LET'S DISCUSS KLEMP MORE! WHAT'S WRONG WITH
      HIM AND ALL HIS FOIBLES AS A SELF-PROCLAIMED
      GODMAN! IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT TWITCHELL!

      For me, actually, eckankar is just a man-made new
      age religion. Why and what Twitchell did in creating it
      can be debated until the cows come home. Everyone
      interested in this strange little known cult the least
      little bit takes one side or the other in the debate which
      basically comes down to how important or insignificant
      the plagiarisms and lies are to the eckankar teachings.

      Those who remain in eckankar have chosen to miminalize
      the fraud that has taken place and are quite confortable
      to remain in the delusion and illusion of the eck teachings.
      They support Klemp as he continues the lies and deceptions,
      keeping silent as he also molds eckankar to fit his
      narrow-minded, anti-social and narcissistic personality.
      Many eckists become like him which is not something one
      should really strive for! : )

      But to take this to a present day discussion, why do we not,
      meaning eckists and non-eckists alike debate the leadership
      of Klemp??? Klemp has been the mahanta/L.E.M. far longer
      than his predecessors, their years combined. It seems to me
      that we need to look long and hard at what Klemp has done
      and is doing since taking the reins of eckankar and shaping it
      into his creation. To me, what eckankar is today is greatly flawed
      by Klemp's shifty hands! He is no godman--how can anyone
      consider such a silly, nerdy looking and odd speaking man a
      god incarnate? Just looking at him and listening to his stupid
      talks makes the whole org look ridiculous!! He's a joke and
      there's nothing special or original about him! LOL!

      My guess is that many long time eckists are waiting, still
      waiting, for the winds of change to happen--when Klemp
      either steps down or is removed from his throne. I believe
      that many of the true eckists are just waiting for a power
      shift in leadership which they hope will then bring the outer
      org in line with what they are feeling/experiencing on their
      inner! They are hopeful that eckankar will become the
      religion they have longed for! : )

      Klemp must fear these patient chelas very much, and thus, he
      has slowed down the initiations in order to remain in control.
      It seems this is the true reason for being stingy about the
      initiations! Klemp is a stingy and fearful little old man--he
      is no guru or godman! So again I ask, why not discuss Klemp,
      and let Twitchell be for the most part? Let's get to the heart of
      the matter which is what Klemp is doing with eckankar! The
      continuing discussions about how eckankar began and how
      Twitchell established it, speculating on his motivations, etc.
      are all distractions from what needs to be analyzed today--
      that being Harold Klemp and what he has done to eckankar!
      My gut feeling is that Twitchell would not be happy with what
      Harold has done to his creation! LOL!

      BTW, I didn't leave eckankar because of David Lane's book-I
      haven't read it. I left because of Ford Johnson's "Confessions
      of a God Seeker." Many eckists left after becoming aware of
      Ford's book. No need to give Lane all the credit. Others have left
      because they saw through the veil of illusion--they knew
      something wasn't right in belonging to the eck cult and they
      hit the road on their own! There are many reasons and ways
      that one can wake up to the truth about eckankar . . . and get
      out! : )

      Mish



      Messages in this topic (14)
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      ******************************************************************
      Don't be deceived by a seemingly innocent program on "Spiritual Dreams" or "Past Lives" at your local library or community center! It's one of many ways Eckankar and other cults recruit new members. Learn the truth before you sign over your mind, heart, soul, and life insurance!! See a short intro video at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QJqkK_JDnzc and check out the links at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth
      *******************************************************************
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Sharon and All, ECKists are anticipating Klemp s Saturday Night Talk and are, hopeful, to learn about a new LEM! Didn t many ECKists think or feel that
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 20, 2007
        Hi Sharon and All,
        ECKists are anticipating Klemp's Saturday Night Talk and
        are, hopeful, to learn about a new LEM!

        Didn't many ECKists "think" or "feel" that a change was
        to have taken place last year because they "saw" it on the
        inner?!

        Oh, I get it! The time/space factor distorted "When" it
        was supposed to happen! Of course, that doesn't explain
        away "Who" was to take Klemp's place as LEM does it!

        I'm sure that the EK doubletalk or the Catch-22 rule will
        make it all seem that the muddy reality of the Eckankar
        religion has a new clarity in the imaginations of those
        ECKists who have the greatest fears/needs.

        ECKists have to believe that any "change" will benefit them
        somehow and sometime in the future. What ever happened
        to the Here and Now of Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom?

        These are the assumed promises tied to even "higher" initiations
        that one cannot receive/handle on the "outer" in this lifetime
        (unless they're male and the LEM)! Catch-22 again!

        ECKists need to wake-up to the Truth! ECKANKAR "is"
        a RELIGION and RELIGIONS LIE! BTW- Why doesn't Klemp
        call it "the Religion of the Light and Sound of Sugmad?"
        See! Klemp's a multi-level deceiver!

        Oh! Don't forget to walk slowly through those metal detectors
        and to get those purses open wide for security. I'm sure that
        there will be plenty of "staff" people walking around with dark
        blue (bulging) jackets, walkie-talkies, and blue-tooths tonight!

        Prometheus

        Sharon wrote:
        >
        >
        E-kult's "inner" is a joke, and only applies to situations which increase the cult's power and
        control, their hold on the cult member, in some way.
        >
        It's okay to attend a seminar "on the inner" only if there was no way you could attend "for
        real", because that makes you feel like a part of that greater whole. It was okay when I
        "attended" our satsang group's hu-chant 'on the inner" when they all went to a seminar
        but I couldn't go. The HI said they "knew" I was there with them. But, after this HI had
        started a new Satsang discourse series, she called me to tell me that I was "out" and could
        not attend anymore because I'd missed three sessions. I was very hurt, and said that I'd
        done Satsang "on the inner" because I was too ill to get there in person. She said that
        didn't matter. I was especially upset because that meant my son couldn't go either - he
        didn't drive, and Satsang was a 45 minute drive.
        >
        Years before, I'd spoken to my previous HI about my not being able to get to Satsang
        regularly - it was quite a drive, and on a school night. I'd read the rules about not missing
        3 in a series. She told me it was okay to attend whenever I (with my son) was able to, that
        it was like a spiritual vitamin and we needed our spiritual nourishment. The 2nd HI said
        she'd learned to just follow the rules without question.
        >
        I was devastated about being kicked out of Satsang. I felt like a good sincere Catholic
        would feel if they'd missed Mass and Communion because of illness and been banned
        from going for the rest of the year. Except in Catholicism, your parish priest does a home
        visit and brings communion to ill parishioners. Most Christian churches do stuff like that.
        So, where's the love in e-kult's attendance policies? The first HI got in trouble later for
        not following the rules and sending in attendance reports & donations quickly enough.
        Heck, we used to joke about eckankar *not* being a cult because they weren't interested in
        money - we all just stuffed our donations in the basket, and when it got full, eventually
        someone would send it in.
        >
        I doubt if Harold will ever give up his power and pass the "rod", and I doubt that he'll name
        Joan as co-LEM, but you never know! Isn't she younger than he is? Ha, I think maybe
        Kunin might do - after all, he exhibited the same "masterly" behavior when he, like Klemp,
        dumped his wife and the mother of his children and married his office-girl mistress.
        >
        It'll be interesting, I'm sure. I have a feeling Klemp's transition might be just as ridiculous
        as the two previous rod-passings were.
        >
        Have a great one, everyone!
        >
        Hugs,
        >
        Sharon
        >
        EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        There is 1 message in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1a. Re: Klemp Should Have Stepped Down Long Ago!
        > From: prometheus_973
        >
        >
        > Message
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > 1a. Re: Klemp Should Have Stepped Down Long Ago!
        > Posted by: prometheus
        >
        >
        > IMO-The KAL always wants ECKists to attend the
        > ECK Seminars in order to waste their hard earned
        > Vahana money on travel and hotel expenses versus
        > attending on the "Inner."
        >
        > Isn't this "inner connection" via Soul Travel the
        > "special" attribute that makes Eckankar and ECKists
        > different from others and more "spiritually advanced"
        > from the other religious herds? So, WHY is it necessary
        > to attend on the outer and make a pilgrimage to the
        > Temple on the physical versus the higher inner planes,
        > especially, for H.I.s?
        >
        > WHY is it necessary for H.I.s to even "write" a Monthly
        > Initiate Report (IRO/HIRO) IF there is Always/Constantly
        > an "inner" communication taking place? WHY do ECK
        > H.I.s need this "lower" physical act to demonstrate
        > discipline, and to communicate with their 14th initiate
        > leader?
        >
        > WHY is Klemp attached to Astral Plane emotions,
        > and Physical Plane limitations? Afterall, ECKists not
        > only have to go through metal detectors for Klemp's
        > Saturday night talk (due to his fears), but they have
        > to get their inspiration from outer talks and words
        > just as other religious followers do!
        >
        > So what is it that makes Eckankar "better" than other
        > religions? The proof is in the pudding! Just look at these
        > ECK H.I.s! Or, better yet, just talk to and listen to them!
        > Anyone can memorize an ECK brochure, but what do they
        > really say and how do they really behave away from the
        > seminar? They're no different from anyone else (for good
        > or bad) regardless of initiation level. WHY? Because the
        > EK initiations, except for what's printed on paper, don't
        > exist in reality. Only the imagination can fulfill the hopes
        > and dreams of those who believe. This is WHY and HOW
        > religions work for the masses... including ECKists!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        mish wrote:
        >
        >
        > LET'S DISCUSS KLEMP MORE! WHAT'S WRONG WITH
        > HIM AND ALL HIS FOIBLES AS A SELF-PROCLAIMED
        > GODMAN! IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT TWITCHELL!
        >
        > For me, actually, eckankar is just a man-made new
        > age religion. Why and what Twitchell did in creating it
        > can be debated until the cows come home. Everyone
        > interested in this strange little known cult the least
        > little bit takes one side or the other in the debate which
        > basically comes down to how important or insignificant
        > the plagiarisms and lies are to the eckankar teachings.
        >
        > Those who remain in eckankar have chosen to miminalize
        > the fraud that has taken place and are quite confortable
        > to remain in the delusion and illusion of the eck teachings.
        > They support Klemp as he continues the lies and deceptions,
        > keeping silent as he also molds eckankar to fit his
        > narrow-minded, anti-social and narcissistic personality.
        > Many eckists become like him which is not something one
        > should really strive for! : )
        >
        > But to take this to a present day discussion, why do we not,
        > meaning eckists and non-eckists alike debate the leadership
        > of Klemp??? Klemp has been the mahanta/L.E.M. far longer
        > than his predecessors, their years combined. It seems to me
        > that we need to look long and hard at what Klemp has done
        > and is doing since taking the reins of eckankar and shaping it
        > into his creation. To me, what eckankar is today is greatly flawed
        > by Klemp's shifty hands! He is no godman--how can anyone
        > consider such a silly, nerdy looking and odd speaking man a
        > god incarnate? Just looking at him and listening to his stupid
        > talks makes the whole org look ridiculous!! He's a joke and
        > there's nothing special or original about him! LOL!
        >
        > My guess is that many long time eckists are waiting, still
        > waiting, for the winds of change to happen--when Klemp
        > either steps down or is removed from his throne. I believe
        > that many of the true eckists are just waiting for a power
        > shift in leadership which they hope will then bring the outer
        > org in line with what they are feeling/experiencing on their
        > inner! They are hopeful that eckankar will become the
        > religion they have longed for! : )
        >
        > Klemp must fear these patient chelas very much, and thus, he
        > has slowed down the initiations in order to remain in control.
        > It seems this is the true reason for being stingy about the
        > initiations! Klemp is a stingy and fearful little old man--he
        > is no guru or godman! So again I ask, why not discuss Klemp,
        > and let Twitchell be for the most part? Let's get to the heart of
        > the matter which is what Klemp is doing with eckankar! The
        > continuing discussions about how eckankar began and how
        > Twitchell established it, speculating on his motivations, etc.
        > are all distractions from what needs to be analyzed today--
        > that being Harold Klemp and what he has done to eckankar!
        > My gut feeling is that Twitchell would not be happy with what
        > Harold has done to his creation! LOL!
        >
        > BTW, I didn't leave eckankar because of David Lane's book-I
        > haven't read it. I left because of Ford Johnson's "Confessions
        > of a God Seeker." Many eckists left after becoming aware of
        > Ford's book. No need to give Lane all the credit. Others have left
        > because they saw through the veil of illusion--they knew
        > something wasn't right in belonging to the eck cult and they
        > hit the road on their own! There are many reasons and ways
        > that one can wake up to the truth about eckankar . . . and get
        > out! : )
        >
        > Mish
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