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Re: Digest Number 939

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Sharon and All! Sharon, thanks for the info on eckankar and Genghis Khan! I found a story Harold Klemp wrote called In the Pursuit of God, in which he
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 11, 2007
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      Hi, Sharon and All!

      Sharon, thanks for the info on eckankar and Genghis Khan!
      I found a story Harold Klemp wrote called "In the Pursuit of
      God," in which he references a few "saints," Genghis Khan
      being one of the named historical figures. Here's an excerpt
      of the article (much of it had to do with rabbits and squirrels
      running around in Klemp's backyard, so I've snipped it--as
      I'm sure many would like to snip his talks--LOL!):

      Klemp wrote:

      "The Light and Sound of God are the food and drink of saints.
      Do you need the reminder of Saul of Tarsus on the road to
      Damascus—struck to the earth by the Light of God? Martin
      Luther, the great reformer, was also fortunate to see It. Then
      there was Genghis Khan, the Mongol conqueror of the thirteenth
      century, who every so often would fall into a swoon for days,
      able only to chant HU, an ancient name for God. In those trance
      states, he saw and heard the majestic Light and Sound of God.
      The Divine One spoke through the Holy Spirit.

      So the highest form of speech from God to the more spiritually
      advanced of the human race is the Light and Sound. "

      Klemp must have been in one of his delusional swoons when
      he came up with this idea! LOL!

      Mish


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      Sharon <brighttigress@...> wrote:
      >
      > In one of the early discourses back in the 80's, I remember doing
      a double-take when a list of historical figures inspired by eckmasters
      included Genghis Khan!"
      >
      > I didn't see it personally, but heard they published a story
      claiming an eckmaster was responsible for the fall of the Berlin Wall
      and communism. Seems to me the story said Reb was riding in a limo
      with a political leader, whispering in his ear...
      >
      > In "Difficulties of Becoming the Living Eck Master", Twitch wrote
      that he was going to write his own version of history.
      >
      > Klemp is the worst-case example of successful cult brainwashing,
      isn't he?
      >
      > Sharon
      >
      >
      >
      > EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1a. Re: Fwd: HK/Eckankar Continues to Rewrite Histo...
      > From: mishmisha9
      > 1b. KLEMP Rewrites & Distorts History in TWEM!
      > From: prometheus_973
      >
      >
      > Messages
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1a. Re: Fwd: HK/Eckankar Continues to Rewrite Histo...
      > Posted by: "mishmisha9" mishmisha9@... mishmisha9
      > Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:52 am ((PDT))
      >
      > HI, Etznab and All!
      >
      > I didn't see the PBS show on Columbus, but in my studies of history
      > and of Columbus, I understand that Columbus was commissioned to
      > search for a water route to the East, for safer access to the treasures
      > there, rather than going the dangerous land way. Gold was one of the
      > riches being sought as well as spices and other desired things in
      > Europe--however, never did I learn or hear that Europe was in need
      > of protein!!! LOL! It amazes me that Klemp "dreamed" that idea up,
      > but maybe he just tests from time to time to see how gullible his
      > chelas are. I mean Klemp can't survive with too many smart people
      > under his command--so, making up dumb stories, seems to just
      > attract the extremely gullible, delusional and easily manipulated
      > kinds of people that Klemp likes best! Believing the story about
      > Fubbi and Rebazar assisting Columbus just indicates that if one
      > can believe that, then the rest of the eckankar crap is also
      > believeable! How else do con men choose their victims, but to see
      > how gullible some people are? If a person is in the same class of
      > people who accepts the words of an authority figure without question
      > than that person is just another gullible person who happens to be
      > in a different group from the other gullible people in the world--but
      > still that person is gullible.
      >
      > Also this minority way of thinking in eckankar might seem novel,
      > but it doesn't mean that eckists are anymore special or enlightened
      > than any other people on this earth. However, such eck stories
      > that distort and erroneously inform, really just highlights how
      > dumb the teachings are and how gullible the chelas are to let it
      > slide by them! : )
      >
      > After joining eckankar one discovers that it can't deliver the promises
      > it makes. The excuse given is that one needs more initiations in order
      > to open and expand one's consciousness. Still this does not work
      > either. This is why eckankar relies upon one's imagination to fulfill
      > one's desires--including the desire to belong to a religion. The problem
      > with this is that the 30 year plus eckists have come full circle, because
      > everyone, including non-eckists, have imaginations and are no less
      > spiritually advanced than these high inititates. So it all comes down
      > to imagination and delusion, and this is how eckankar works for
      > some people!
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Mish,
      > >
      > > There was a story about Columbus discovering America on PBS,
      > > Channel 9 recently. I didn't get time to watch it, but I heard that the
      > > voyage did have something to do with one mineral in particular -
      > > GOLD!
      > >
      > > Etznab
      > >
      > >
      > > **************************************
      > > See what's new at
      > > http://www.aol.com
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (3)
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1b. KLEMP Rewrites & Distorts History in TWEM!
      > Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
      > Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:45 am ((PDT))
      >
      > Hi Etznab, Mish, Sharon, and All,
      > Even though Europe had been undergoing a "Little Ice Age"
      > (1300-1850) there was a greater desire for those with Power
      > and Money to seek more and even greater riches and power!
      >
      > Therefore, Klemp's story of Rebazar and Fubbi influencing
      > Columbus on the "Inner" and misdirecting CC and his course
      > to India for the Greater Good, "protein" for Europeans, seems
      > strange and anti-ECK! This "inner plane" influence was a Lower
      > Plane, psychic, or Kal act! It is Not an act of Detachment (Vairag)
      > or of Non-attachment.
      >
      > I really doubt that most ECKists have thought this out and have
      > looked at the implications of this ECK Legend "in fact."
      >
      > FIRST, What happened to the Law of Non-interference? Why
      > is the "Inner" manipulation/mind-control by others (REBAZAR
      > & FUBBI) who are either real or ficticious seen as okay by Klemp?
      >
      > SECOND, due to the "Little Ice Age," in Europe, the closest source
      > of other grains (sources of protein for both humans and livestock)
      > Unaffected By The Cold are the countries to the South which have
      > been (for centuries) a source of trade.
      >
      > THIRD, Europe had more sources of protein grains than the
      > Americas. And, Europe had domesticated animals! What Dependable
      > sources of protein did the Americas have except for Corn? None!
      > They didn't have domesticated animals (until the Europeans brought
      > their own) and meat is the best source of protein! Therefore, the
      > native people could not depend on hunting enough meat! This
      > is why the countries that have the best sources of protein (grains,
      > domesticated animals for meat, eggs, cheese, milk, etc.) have more
      > advanced civilizations. The body and mind need protein.
      >
      > FOURTH, due to the discovery by Columbus (and Rebazar & Fubbi)
      > others followed and TOBACCO was, also, brought back to Europe.
      >
      > FIFTH, What happened to the indigenous people that Columbus,
      > and those who came after him, came in contact with? They were
      > murdered, raped, died from diseases, and enslaved due to the
      > search for Gold and Silver! Rebazar and Fubbi are responsible for
      > this! I wonder what the Central & South American ECK Chelas think
      > about this Columbus-Rebazar-Fubbi Story?
      >
      > SIXTH, WHY are ECK Masters concerned with the Greater "Good,"
      > or health, of these Europeans over others throughout history?
      > Maybe Klemp can point out some other humantarian aid that
      > the ECK Masters have given Without Consent (via the INNER) to
      > other groups of people, or for the Good of the Whole...
      > and Civilization.
      >
      > BTW - On Amazon.com one can look at the index of
      > "The LITTLE ICE AGE: How Climate Made History 1300-1850"
      > by Brian Fagan.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Mish wrote:
      > >
      > > HI, Etznab and All!
      > >
      > > I didn't see the PBS show on Columbus, but in my studies of history
      > > and of Columbus, I understand that Columbus was commissioned to
      > > search for a water route to the East, for safer access to the treasures
      > > there, rather than going the dangerous land way. Gold was one of the
      > > riches being sought as well as spices and other desired things in
      > > Europe--however, never did I learn or hear that Europe was in need
      > > of protein!!! LOL! It amazes me that Klemp "dreamed" that idea up,
      > > but maybe he just tests from time to time to see how gullible his
      > > chelas are. I mean Klemp can't survive with too many smart people
      > > under his command--so, making up dumb stories, seems to just
      > > attract the extremely gullible, delusional and easily manipulated
      > > kinds of people that Klemp likes best! Believing the story about
      > > Fubbi and Rebazar assisting Columbu
      > s just indicates that if one
      > > can believe that, then the rest of the eckankar crap is also
      > > believeable! How else do con men choose their victims, but to see
      > > how gullible some people are? If a person is in the same class of
      > > people who accepts the words of an authority figure without question
      > > then that person is just another gullible person who happens to be
      > > in a different group from the other gullible people in the world--but
      > > still that person is gullible.
      > >
      > > Also this minority way of thinking in eckankar might seem novel,
      > > but it doesn't mean that eckists are anymore special or enlightened
      > > than any other people on this earth. However, such eck stories
      > > that distort and erroneously inform, really just highlights how
      > > dumb the teachings are and how gullible the chelas are to let it
      > > slide by them! : )
      > >
      > > After joining eckankar one discovers that it can't deliver the promises
      > > it makes. The excuse given is that one needs more initiations in order
      > > to open and expand one's consciousness. Still this does not work
      > > either. This is why eckankar relies upon one's imagination to fulfill
      > > one's desires--including the desire to belong to a religion. The problem
      > > with this is that the 30 year plus eckists have come full circle, because
      > > everyone, including non-eckists, have imaginations and are no less
      > > spiritually advanced than these high inititates. So it all comes down
      > > to imagination and delusion, and this is how eckankar works for
      > > some people!
      > >
      > > Mish
      > >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Mish,
      > > >
      > > > There was a story about Columbus discovering America on PBS,
      > > > Channel 9 recently. I didn't get time to watch it, but I heard that the
      > > > voyage did have something to do with one mineral in particular -
      > > > GOLD!
      > > >
      > > > Etznab
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > **************************************
      > > > See what's new at
      > > > http://www.aol.com
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (3)
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ******************************************************************
      > Don't be deceived by a seemingly innocent program on "Spiritual Dreams" or "Past Lives"
      at your local library or community center! It's one of many ways Eckankar and other cults
      recruit new members. Learn the truth before you sign over your mind, heart, soul, and life
      insurance!! See a short intro video at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QJqkK_JDnzc and
      check out the links at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth
      > *******************************************************************
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Yes, It s true! Johann Eck was a theologian and the principle adversary of Martin Luther. Just go to: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ Select E for Eck and
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 13, 2007
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        Yes, It's true! Johann Eck was a theologian and the
        principle adversary of Martin Luther.

        Just go to:

        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/

        Select "E" for Eck and "L" for Luther and read
        it for yourself!

        Is this just a "coincidence" that a man named ECK
        opposed Klemp's hero and "saint" (Luther)?

        You can read about Luther's exaggerations, as well as,
        his murderous accomplices and his hatred as ML took
        a 'by any means necessary' approach to acheiving his
        goals. Apparently, Klemp justifies the negative actions
        of both Martin Luther, and of Genghis Khan in order to
        envoke change. Klemp's real mastership is via the Kal
        and hypocrisy!

        Yes, it's no wonder that Klemp, who attended a Lutheran
        Seminary, uses quotes from the distorted King James version
        of the Bible (that fundamentalists use) and has made
        LUTHER into a SAINT along with GENGHIS KHAN!

        Yes, just GOOGLE: "ECKANKAR: The Pursuit of God" to read
        HK's article [it's on ECKANKAR.org].

        Thanks Sharon for the two sites you gave:

        http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/godman.html

        http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/threats.html

        Prometheus

        mish wrote:

        Hi, Sharon and All!

        Sharon, thanks for the info on eckankar and Genghis Khan!
        I found a story Harold Klemp wrote called "In the Pursuit of
        God," in which he references a few "saints," Genghis Khan
        being one of the named historical figures. Here's an excerpt
        of the article (much of it had to do with rabbits and squirrels
        running around in Klemp's backyard, so I've snipped it--as
        I'm sure many would like to snip his talks--LOL!):

        Klemp wrote [on ECKANKAR.org]:

        "The Light and Sound of God are the food and drink of SAINTS.
        Do you need the reminder of SAUL of TARSUS on the road to
        Damascus—struck to the earth by the Light of God? MARTIN
        LUTHER, the great reformer, was also fortunate to see It. Then
        there was GENGHIS KHANG, the Mongol conqueror of the thirteenth
        century, who every so often would fall into a swoon for days,
        able only to CHANT HU, an ancient name for God. In those trance
        states, he saw and heard the majestic Light and Sound of God.
        The Divine One spoke through the Holy Spirit.

        So the highest form of speech from God to the more spiritually
        advanced of the human race is the Light and Sound. "

        Klemp must have been in one of his delusional swoons when
        he came up with this idea! LOL!

        Mish


        Sharon wrote:

        In one of the early discourses back in the 80's, I remember doing
        a double-take when a list of historical figures inspired by eckmasters
        included Genghis Khan!"

        I didn't see it personally, but heard they published a story
        claiming an eckmaster was responsible for the fall of the Berlin Wall
        and communism. Seems to me the story said Reb was riding in a limo
        with a political leader, whispering in his ear...

        In "Difficulties of Becoming the Living Eck Master", Twitch wrote
        that he was going to write his own version of history.

        Klemp is the worst-case example of successful cult brainwashing,
        isn't he?

        Sharon
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