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Re: Fwd: HK/Eckankar Continues to Rewrite History!

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Pretujari! You are correct about Rebazar being claimed as a guide for Columbus. Also, in another post, back in Jan. 2006, I posted this excerpt from
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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      Hi, Pretujari!

      You are correct about Rebazar being claimed as a guide for
      Columbus. Also, in another post, back in Jan. 2006, I posted
      this excerpt from Klemp's "Those Wonderful ECK Masters:"

      In the chapter devoted to Rebazar Tarzs, in "Those Wonderful ECK
      Masters," page 95, HK had this comment about Rebazar's connection
      with Columbus:

      "ECK legend, in fact, has it that Rebazar, along with Fubbi Quantz,
      was involved with the inner guidance of Christopher Columbus."

      Interesting that HK uses the term "legend" in regards to this fable
      he and Twitch have made up! : ) (end of re-post excerpt)

      Also, in this later post I corrected the page number for the story
      about Fubbi--it's found on page 27 rather than page 87 in "Those
      Wonderful ECK Masters." I didn't catch that when I had reposted
      the Fubbi post. Sorry for the confusion on that.

      Thanks for your post--nice to see you here again!

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ed Kusi
      <pretujari@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Mish and All,
      > Wasn't it RT who was Colombus' guide? I remember reading this
      in one of PT's books. But of course, its all the old fakery of creating
      mythical figures and placing them in history as if they existed. The
      dicey one for Eckankar in this is the elusive Eck Master Sudar Singh
      whose existence Klempus and his org are still clutching at straws
      to prove.
      > Happy Columbus Day!
      > Pretujari
      >
      > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All!
      >
      > Happy Columbus Day! : )
      >
      > In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
      > Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
      > ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
      > Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
      > we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!
      >
      > Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
      > and his org would like his chelas to be:
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All!
      >
      > I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
      > is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
      > Wonderful Eck Masters," page 27 comes this history lesson:
      >
      > "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
      > This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
      > After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
      > to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
      > of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
      > Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
      > Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
      > of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
      > there.
      >
      > It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
      > Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
      > European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
      > left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
      > moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
      > gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
      > the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
      > thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
      > ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
      > explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
      > giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
      > nutrition of the Old World."
      >
      > I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
      > fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
      > story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
      > all fakery and lies! LOL!
      >
      > But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
      > and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
      > get out of that crazy lying cult org!
      >
      > What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
      > doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
      > do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
      > Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
      > Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
      > and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
      > masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!
      >
      > Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
      > there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
      > trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
      > never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
      > Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
      > filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
      > cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
      > people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
      > on and away from it as quickly as possible!
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > --- End forwarded message ---
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Legend-A nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as historical. [Random House, Webster s
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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        "Legend-A nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down
        by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as
        historical." [Random House, Webster's College Dictionary]

        KLEMP: "ECK legend, in fact, has it has it that Rebazar, along
        with Fubbi Quantz, was involved with the inner guidance of
        Chistopher Columbus." [Those Wonderful ECK Masters, pg.95]

        The earliest this EK legend/myth/lie was handed down is when
        Twitchell first created it! This "in fact" is the real truth.

        Also, notice how vague and wishy-washy Klemp is! Why wouldn't
        the greatest Mahanta ever (HK) be able to travel back into time
        and "see" this inner influence for himself, and then share or verify
        this information (legend) with the public in this book?

        Really! WHY can't HK verify this "LEGEND" with Rebazar and Fubbi
        IF this really did occur?

        Instead, Klemp PLAYS WITH WORDS as he implies that the
        "ECK legend" is "fact." I once saw a magician "in fact" make
        a jumbo jet disappear! But was it True? No, of course Not!
        But, this story about Columbus, Rebazar and Fubbi is true
        right! LOL!

        Why is it that this is being said to be "inner guidance" when
        Columbus was Not an ECK Chela of Fubbi or Rebazar?

        What happened to the ECK Spiritual Law of Non-interference?

        These hypocrites and conmen need to get their stories
        straight! That's probably why Klemp leaves so much wiggle
        room for ECKists to fill-in the blanks via their imaginations.

        So, I wonder how many ECKists really believe this crap?

        It would, therefore, seem that Everything and Everyone
        is influenced (on the inner) by all of these ECK Masters!

        Do ECKists really believe this? This is what Klemp, in fact,
        is saying!

        *****

        On another note - Oct. 22, 2007 falls on a Monday, but
        Oct. 22, 2008 is on Wednesday right (?) due to leap year,
        and Oct. 22, 2009 is on Thursday, correct?!

        I was just looking at when the day of the week that the "ROD"
        could be passed. So, what will be the ploy of Klemp to fit this
        into his plans? Monday Oct. 22 is After the seminar right!
        Therefore it would be too late to announce it, or would HK
        tell of this exchange in advance? It seems like time (midnight)
        and date (Oct. 22) is a factor of something that is supposed to
        happen on the higher "Inner" planes where there is no time or
        space! WHY is that?

        In fact, it's probably just another flaw in the historical "legend"
        of Eckankar that Twitchell created in order to create a lineage
        of Masters, thereby, validating himself as one of them.

        Prometheus




        mish wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi, All!
        >
        > Happy Columbus Day! : )
        >
        > In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
        > Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
        > ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
        > Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
        > we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!
        >
        > Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
        > and his org would like his chelas to be:
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, All!
        >
        > I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
        > is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
        > Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this history lesson:
        >
        > "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
        > This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
        > After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
        > to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
        > of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
        > Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
        > Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
        > of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
        > there.
        >
        > It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
        > Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
        > European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
        > left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
        > moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
        > gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
        > the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
        > thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
        > ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
        > explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
        > giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
        > nutrition of the Old World."
        >
        > I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
        > fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
        > story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
        > all fakery and lies! LOL!
        >
        > But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
        > and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
        > get out of that crazy lying cult org!
        >
        > What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
        > doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
        > do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
        > Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
        > Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
        > and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
        > masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!
        >
        > Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
        > there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
        > trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
        > never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
        > Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
        > filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
        > cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
        > people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
        > on and away from it as quickly as possible!
        >
        > Mish
        >
        > --- End forwarded message ---
        >
      • prometheus_973
        The History Channel was recently showing Columbus: The Lost Voyage. It was interesting to see that Columbus discovered the New World, but Not the United
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 13, 2007
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          The History Channel was recently showing "Columbus:
          The Lost Voyage." It was interesting to see that Columbus
          discovered the "New World," but Not the United States.

          This "New World" was actually the Dominican Republic,
          and this is where Columbus sailed to on his first three
          voyages. On his four and final voyage he landed in
          South America (Venezuela). Way to go Reb and Fub!

          And, guess what else?! Columbus was a cruel, brutal, and
          inhumane Governor to both the natives (he enslaved) and
          to others under his charge.

          All Columbus cared about was mining gold and silver and
          taking this back to Spain for his share. There was never any
          mention of bringing back "protein." This is the true History
          and facts (reality) of Columbus' voyages. The Rebazar and
          Fubbi crap (ECK Legend) is a big fat lie and a distortion of Truth!

          BTW- I discovered that Europe already had access to corn,
          or maze, so that wasn't a protein source that was needed.

          It is interesting that Columbus thought that God was speaking
          to him... I guess that this "Divine Communication" justified his
          actions regardless of who it harmed. Maybe this is why Klemp
          uses this story to insert Rebazar and Fubbi. Khan "swooned"
          so, therefore, he must be spiritually connected to Twitchell's
          fake Eck masters too! It's all a ploy to use half-truths to make
          the lie seem real.

          Delusion runs rampant throughout this country and the world!
          It reminds me of what I see on American Idol Rewind when I see
          these young people being told that they can't sing! LOL! It's so
          obvious that most of these people (99%) can't sing, but they
          actually believe that they can sing... and that they can sing well!
          People, whom they trust, tell them that they can sing and they
          come to believe this. Why would someone who loves them lie
          to them?! Therefore, they tie their hopes and dreams to a star
          and live in their fantasy land of delusion. But now, they are
          awaken to the truth! They can't sing afterall! They get angry
          and lash out, or cry, or continue to deny the truth. The same
          applies to learning the truth about the fraud behind Eckankar
          which includes the fake masters (lineage) and initiations.

          Prometheus





          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > "Legend-A nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down
          > by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as
          > historical." [Random House, Webster's College Dictionary]

          KLEMP: "ECK legend, in fact, has it has it that Rebazar, along
          with Fubbi Quantz, was involved with the inner guidance of
          Chistopher Columbus." [Those Wonderful ECK Masters, pg.95]

          > The earliest this EK legend/myth/lie was handed down is when
          > Twitchell first created it! This "in fact" is the real truth.
          >
          > Also, notice how vague and wishy-washy Klemp is! Why wouldn't
          > the greatest Mahanta ever (HK) be able to travel back into time
          > and "see" this inner influence for himself, and then share or verify
          > this information (legend) with the public in this book?
          >
          > Really! WHY can't HK verify this "LEGEND" with Rebazar and Fubbi
          > IF this really did occur?
          >
          > Instead, Klemp PLAYS WITH WORDS as he implies that the
          > "ECK legend" is "fact." I once saw a magician "in fact" make
          > a jumbo jet disappear! But was it True? No, of course Not!
          > But, this story about Columbus, Rebazar and Fubbi is true
          > right! LOL!
          >
          > Why is it that this is being said to be "inner guidance" when
          > Columbus was Not an ECK Chela of Fubbi or Rebazar?
          >
          > What happened to the ECK Spiritual Law of Non-interference?
          >
          > These hypocrites and conmen need to get their stories
          > straight! That's probably why Klemp leaves so much wiggle
          > room for ECKists to fill-in the blanks via their imaginations.
          >
          > So, I wonder how many ECKists really believe this crap?
          >
          > It would, therefore, seem that Everything and Everyone
          > is influenced (on the inner) by all of these ECK Masters!
          >
          > Do ECKists really believe this? This is what Klemp, in fact,
          > is saying!
          >
          > *****
          >
          > On another note - Oct. 22, 2007 falls on a Monday, but
          > Oct. 22, 2008 is on Wednesday right (?) due to leap year,
          > and Oct. 22, 2009 is on Thursday, correct?!
          >
          > I was just looking at when the day of the week that the "ROD"
          > could be passed. So, what will be the ploy of Klemp to fit this
          > into his plans? Monday Oct. 22 is After the seminar right!
          > Therefore it would be too late to announce it, or would HK
          > tell of this exchange in advance? It seems like time (midnight)
          > and date (Oct. 22) is a factor of something that is supposed to
          > happen on the higher "Inner" planes where there is no time or
          > space! WHY is that?
          >
          > In fact, it's probably just another flaw in the historical "legend"
          > of Eckankar that Twitchell created in order to create a lineage
          > of Masters, thereby, validating himself as one of them.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > mish wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi, All!
          > >
          > > Happy Columbus Day! : )
          > >
          > > In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
          > > Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
          > > ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
          > > Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
          > > we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!
          > >
          > > Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
          > > and his org would like his chelas to be:
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > > "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi, All!
          > >
          > > I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
          > > is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
          > > Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this history lesson:
          > >
          > > "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
          > > This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
          > > After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
          > > to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
          > > of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
          > > Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
          > > Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
          > > of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
          > > there.
          > >
          > > It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
          > > Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
          > > European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
          > > left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
          > > moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
          > > gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
          > > the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
          > > thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
          > > ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
          > > explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
          > > giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
          > > nutrition of the Old World."
          > >
          > > I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
          > > fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
          > > story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
          > > all fakery and lies! LOL!
          > >
          > > But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
          > > and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
          > > get out of that crazy lying cult org!
          > >
          > > What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
          > > doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
          > > do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
          > > Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
          > > Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
          > > and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
          > > masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!
          > >
          > > Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
          > > there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
          > > trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
          > > never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
          > > Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
          > > filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
          > > cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
          > > people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
          > > on and away from it as quickly as possible!
          > >
          > > Mish
          > >
          > > --- End forwarded message ---
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi All, I thought I d combine some posts on the Columbus- Rebazar-Fubbi Lie that Klemp promotes. Klemp distorts the facts. At the same time, IF what he states
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 14, 2007
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            Hi All,
            I thought I'd combine some posts on the Columbus-
            Rebazar-Fubbi Lie that Klemp promotes. Klemp distorts
            the facts. At the same time, IF what he states was true,
            then Rebazar and Fubbi and the Mahanta Consciousness
            must take responsibility for ALL OF THE NEGATIVE ACTIONS
            AND RESULTS OF COLUMBUS' VOYAGES!

            Understanding the basis of this fiction [ECK Legend] where
            Rebazar and Fubbi influence Columbus on the "Inner Planes,"
            for the good of the whole, is very relevant to seeing through
            the Myth/Legend/Miracles and half-truths that all religions
            use to deceive, to confuse, and to control their followers.

            All religions do this, with their own unique spin, via giving
            their followers faith, hope, and beliefs, as well as, the imagination
            needed to alleivate their fears and to "answer" their questions
            through prayer (etc.), scripture, or within (the inner). The faithful
            must place their trust in the same lower "truths" their "enlightened"
            leaders have fed them and their ancestors over generations.

            Newer religions like Eckankar are no better than the older ones!
            ECKists don't seem to understand that The ECK Initiations Are
            A KAL Trap! The belief in the initiations, and the social aspect,
            i.e. Eck friends, are what keep many people from leaving the Org!
            Look at all of that time and those initiations [stature, (pride) or
            security, (from fear/unknown)] that they have invested!

            Plus, what do Eckists replace (Eckankar) their religion with? Freedom!
            They can replace their religion with the Freedom of Soul! This
            is how it was meant to be! The Eck initiations were created by
            Twitchell so that he would have the highest... it was his idea
            so why not have the highest (the 14th)! Really! it's that simple!

            Eckists really need to use some common sense and their minds
            just as they do to prevent themselves from falling into other
            scams while in this world! And, there's nothing wrong with
            using some Logic either!

            Prometheus


            Hi Etznab, Mish, Sharon, and All,
            Even though Europe had been undergoing a "Little Ice Age"
            (1300-1850) there was a greater desire for those with Power
            and Money to seek more and even greater riches and power!

            Therefore, Klemp's story of Rebazar and Fubbi influencing
            Columbus on the "Inner" and misdirecting CC and his course
            to India for the Greater Good, "protein" for Europeans, seems
            strange and anti-ECK! This "inner plane" influence was a Lower
            Plane, psychic, or Kal act! It is Not an act of Detachment (Vairag)
            or of Non-attachment. [Actually, Columbus thought he could
            just sail West to India. And, if LAND wasn't there one could!]

            I really doubt that most ECKists have thought this out or have
            looked at the implications of this ECK Legend "in fact."

            FIRST, What happened to the Law of Non-interference? Why
            is the "Inner" manipulation/mind-control by others (REBAZAR
            & FUBBI) who are either real or ficticious seen as okay by Klemp?

            SECOND, due to the "Little Ice Age," in Europe, the closest source
            of other grains (sources of protein for both humans and livestock)
            Unaffected By The Cold are the countries to the South which have
            been (for centuries) a source of trade.

            THIRD, Europe had more sources of protein grains (and fruit and
            vegetables) than the Americas. And, Europe had domesticated animals!
            What Dependable sources of protein (crops) did the Americas have
            except for Corn? Not as many!

            The Americas didn't have domesticated animals (until the Europeans
            brought their own) and meat is the best source of protein! Therefore,
            the native people could not depend on hunting enough meat! This
            is why the countries that have the best sources of protein (grains,
            domesticated animals for meat, eggs, cheese, milk, etc.) have more
            advanced civilizations. The body and mind need protein.

            FOURTH, due to the discovery by Columbus (and Rebazar & Fubbi)
            others followed and TOBACCO was, also, brought back to Europe.

            FIFTH, What happened to the indigenous people that Columbus,
            and those who came after him, came in contact with? They were
            murdered, raped, died from diseases, and enslaved due to the
            search for Gold and Silver! Rebazar and Fubbi are responsible for
            this! I wonder what the Central & South American ECK Chelas think
            about this Columbus-Rebazar-Fubbi Story?

            SIXTH, WHY are ECK Masters concerned with the Greater "Good,"
            or health, of these Europeans over others throughout history?
            Maybe Klemp can point out some other humantarian aid that
            the ECK Masters have given Without Consent (via the INNER) to
            other groups of people, or for the Good of the Whole...
            and Civilization. Klemp preaches a non-involved and passive
            view of world affairs.

            BTW - On Amazon.com one can look at the index of
            "The LITTLE ICE AGE: How Climate Made History 1300-1850"
            by Brian Fagan.

            Prometheus


            Mish wrote:

            HI, Etznab and All!

            I didn't see the PBS show on Columbus, but in my studies of history
            and of Columbus, I understand that Columbus was commissioned to
            search for a water route to the East, for safer access to the treasures
            there, rather than going the dangerous land way. Gold was one of the
            riches being sought as well as spices and other desired things in
            Europe--however, never did I learn or hear that Europe was in need
            of protein!!! LOL! It amazes me that Klemp "dreamed" that idea up,
            but maybe he just tests from time to time to see how gullible his
            chelas are. I mean Klemp can't survive with too many smart people
            under his command--so, making up dumb stories, seems to just
            attract the extremely gullible, delusional and easily manipulated
            kinds of people that Klemp likes best! Believing the story about
            Fubbi and Rebazar assisting Columbus just indicates that if one
            can believe that, then the rest of the eckankar crap is also
            believeable! How else do con men choose their victims, but to see
            how gullible some people are? If a person is in the same class of
            people who accepts the words of an authority figure without question
            then that person is just another gullible person who happens to be
            in a different group from the other gullible people in the world--but
            still that person is gullible.

            Also this minority way of thinking in eckankar might seem novel,
            but it doesn't mean that eckists are anymore special or enlightened
            than any other people on this earth. However, such eck stories
            that distort and erroneously inform, really just highlights how
            dumb the teachings are and how gullible the chelas are to let it
            slide by them! : )

            After joining eckankar one discovers that it can't deliver the promises
            it makes. The excuse given is that one needs more initiations in order
            to open and expand one's consciousness. Still this does not work
            either. This is why eckankar relies upon one's imagination to fulfill
            one's desires--including the desire to belong to a religion. The problem
            with this is that the 30 year plus eckists have come full circle, because
            everyone, including non-eckists, have imaginations and are no less
            spiritually advanced than these high inititates. So it all comes down
            to imagination and delusion, and this is how eckankar works for
            some people!

            Mish

            etznab wrote:

            Mish,

            There was a story about Columbus discovering America on PBS,
            Channel 9 recently. I didn't get time to watch it, but I heard that the
            voyage did have something to do with one mineral in particular -
            GOLD!

            Etznab

            mish wrote:


            Hi, All!

            Happy Columbus Day! : )

            In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
            Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
            ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
            Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
            we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!

            Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
            and his org would like his chelas to be:

            mish wrote:

            Hi, All!

            I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
            is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
            Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this history lesson:

            "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
            This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
            After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
            to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
            of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
            Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
            Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
            of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
            there.

            It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
            Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
            European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
            left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
            moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
            gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
            the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
            thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
            ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
            explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
            giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
            nutrition of the Old World."

            I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
            fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
            story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
            all fakery and lies! LOL!

            But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
            and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
            get out of that crazy lying cult org!

            What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
            doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
            do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
            Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
            Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
            and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
            masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!

            Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
            there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
            trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
            never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
            Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
            filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
            cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
            people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
            on and away from it as quickly as possible!

            Mish
          • prometheus_973
            Klemp s The Wisdom Notes FALL 1984 talks about Columbus, Fubbi Quantz, and the need for Protein in Europe! This is repeated in Klemp s 2005 Those Wonderful
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 5, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Klemp's "The Wisdom Notes" FALL 1984
              talks about Columbus, Fubbi Quantz, and
              the need for Protein in Europe! This is
              repeated in Klemp's 2005 "Those Wonderful
              ECK Masters" (TWEM) - 21 years later!

              The Wisdom Notes - FALL 1984:

              "Frankly, the human race is up against a
              crisis as compelling as that which Fubbi
              Quantz faced before the discovery of
              America.

              The practice of the Spiritual Exercises of
              ECK is about the only solution to meet it.

              The problem in the late fifteenth century
              was that nutrition of the European people
              was in a shocking state.

              The people had little energy left over after
              the day's work for contemplation, the moment
              of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul.

              FUBBI QUANTZ thus set into motion the
              events that led COLUMBUS to sail his three
              tiny ships westward into unknown waters
              for the discovery of the Americas, where
              abundant food could be gotten to revive
              the food stock of the Old World." [end]

              ***
              ME: So, What has Klemp done for people
              in AMERICA who have less vacation time
              and CONTEMPLATION time than their
              EUROPEAN counterparts? It has been 21
              years since HK first told this story about
              the need for the "Spiritual Exercises" and
              a time for "contemplation" by all people.
              FUBBI intervened (on the outer -Lower Worlds)
              for the higher GOOD and broke the Law of
              Non-Interference, so why hasn't KLEMP done
              anything? It's actually getting worse with
              Klemp in charge!
              ***

              Here's Klemp's quote from TWEM (page 87):

              "... It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus
              to sail to the Americas, to open the vast store-
              house of new sorely needed sources of fruits,
              grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
              there.

              It was then the late fifteenth century. In his
              travels around Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed
              the appalling health of the European people.
              It was in a shocking state.

              They had little energy left over after a day's
              work for contemplation or reflection, the moment
              of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul.

              So Fubbi Quantz gave Columbus a vision one night.
              In it he showed the potential of the New World.

              This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
              thus set into motion the events that led him to sail
              his three tiny ships westward into unknown waters.

              In the Americas, then, European explorers found
              BOTH PRECIOUS minerals and abundant stores of
              life-giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the
              food stock and nutrition of the Old World." [end]

              Prometheus

              *************************************************
              History or Another PT/HK Distortion?
              Columbus, Fubbi & Rebazar- A Search for Protein!

              [From Message # 2946]
              prometheus wrote:
              >
              The History Channel was recently showing "Columbus:
              The Lost Voyage." It was interesting to see that Columbus
              discovered the "New World," but Not the United States.
              >
              This "New World" was actually the Dominican Republic,
              and this is where Columbus sailed to on his first three
              voyages. On his four and final voyage he landed in
              South America (Venezuela). Way to go Reb and Fub!
              >
              And, guess what else?! Columbus was a cruel, brutal, and
              inhumane Governor to both the natives (he enslaved) and
              to others under his charge.
              >
              All Columbus cared about was mining gold and silver and
              taking this back to Spain for his share. There was never any
              mention of bringing back "protein." This is the true History
              and facts (reality) of Columbus' voyages. The Rebazar and
              Fubbi crap (ECK Legend) is a big fat lie and a distortion of Truth!
              >
              BTW- I discovered that Europe already had access to corn,
              or maze, so that wasn't a protein source that was needed.
              >
              It is interesting that Columbus thought that God was speaking
              to him... I guess that this "Divine Communication" justified his
              actions regardless of who it harmed. Maybe this is why Klemp
              uses this story to insert Rebazar and Fubbi. Khan "swooned"
              so, therefore, he must be spiritually connected to Twitchell's
              fake Eck masters too! It's all a ploy to use half-truths to make
              the lie seem real.
              >
              Delusion runs rampant throughout this country and the world!
              It reminds me of what I see on American Idol Rewind when I see
              these young people being told that they can't sing! LOL! It's so
              obvious that most of these people (99%) can't sing, but they
              actually believe that they can sing... and that they can sing well!
              People, whom they trust, tell them that they can sing and they
              come to believe this. Why would someone who loves them lie
              to them?! Therefore, they tie their hopes and dreams to a star
              and live in their fantasy land of delusion. But now, they are
              awaken to the truth! They can't sing afterall! They get angry
              and lash out, or cry, or continue to deny the truth. The same
              applies to learning the truth about the fraud behind Eckankar
              which includes the fake masters (lineage) and initiations.
              >
              Prometheus
              prometheus wrote:
              > >
              "Legend-A nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down
              by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as
              historical." [Random House, Webster's College Dictionary]
              >
              KLEMP: "ECK legend, in fact, has it has it that Rebazar, along
              with Fubbi Quantz, was involved with the inner guidance of
              Chistopher Columbus." [Those Wonderful ECK Masters, pg.95]
              >
              The earliest this EK legend/myth/lie was handed down is when
              Twitchell first created it! This "in fact" is the real truth.
              > >
              Also, notice how vague and wishy-washy Klemp is! Why wouldn't
              the greatest Mahanta ever (HK) be able to travel back into time
              and "see" this inner influence for himself, and then share or verify
              this information (legend) with the public in this book?
              > >
              Really! WHY can't HK verify this "LEGEND" with Rebazar and Fubbi
              IF this really did occur?
              > >
              Instead, Klemp PLAYS WITH WORDS as he implies that the
              "ECK legend" is "fact." I once saw a magician "in fact" make
              a jumbo jet disappear! But was it True? No, of course Not!
              But, this story about Columbus, Rebazar and Fubbi is true
              right! LOL!
              > >
              Why is it that this is being said to be "inner guidance" when
              Columbus was Not an ECK Chela of Fubbi or Rebazar?
              > >
              What happened to the ECK Spiritual Law of Non-interference?
              > >
              These hypocrites and conmen need to get their stories
              straight! That's probably why Klemp leaves so much wiggle
              room for ECKists to fill-in the blanks via their imaginations.
              > >
              So, I wonder how many ECKists really believe this crap?
              > >
              It would, therefore, seem that Everything and Everyone
              is influenced (on the inner) by all of these ECK Masters!
              > >
              Do ECKists really believe this? This is what Klemp, in fact,
              is saying!
              > >
              *****
              The ROD OF EK POWER & The Lower Worlds of KAL-

              On another note - Oct. 22, 2007 falls on a Monday, but
              Oct. 22, 2008 is on Wednesday due to leap year, and Oct.
              22, 2009 is on Thursday, correct?!
              > >
              I was just looking at when the day of the week that the "ROD"
              could be passed. So, what will be the ploy of Klemp to fit this
              into his plans? Monday Oct. 22 is After the seminar right!
              Therefore it would be too late to announce it, or would HK
              tell of this exchange in advance? It seems like time (midnight)
              and date (Oct. 22) is a factor of something that is supposed to
              happen on the higher "Inner" planes where there is no time or
              space! WHY is that?
              > >
              In fact, it's probably just another flaw in the historical "legend"
              of Eckankar that Twitchell created in order to create a lineage
              of Masters, thereby, validating himself as one of them.
              > >
              Prometheus
              > >
              mish wrote:

              Hi, All!
              > > >
              Happy Columbus Day! : )
              > > >
              In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up
              this post from Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK
              in his book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters"
              giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
              Columbus in discovering America. I think
              it only fitting that we remember Fubbi and
              Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!
              > > >
              Here's the old post that shows how historically
              incorrect Klemp and his org would like his chelas to be:
              > > >
              > > >
              "mishmisha9" wrote:
              > > >
              Hi, All!
              > > >
              I believe eckist parents need to be concerned
              about what HK/Eckankar is teaching in regards
              to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
              Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this
              history lesson:
              > > >
              "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta,
              the Living ECK Master. This was during the
              time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
              After completing his mission, he immortalized
              his body and continues to serve the spiritual
              needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
              of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the
              spiritual guide of Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz
              who inspired Columbus to sail to the Americas,
              to open the vast store-house of new sorely
              needed sources of fruits, grains, legumes,
              vegetables, and especially protein there.
              > > >
              It was then the late fifteenth century. In his
              travels around Europe, Fubbi Quantz had
              witnessed the appalling health of the
              European people. It was in a shocking state.
              They had little energy left over after a day's
              work for contemplation or reflection, the
              moment of quiet which is the sweet drink
              of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz gave Columbus
              a vision one night. In it he showed the potential
              of the New World. This vision fired the imagination
              of Columbus and thus set into motion the
              events that led him to sail his three tiny
              ships westward into unknown waters. In
              the Americas, then, European explorers
              found both precious minerals and abundant
              stores of life-giving foods. Thus, Fubbi
              Quantz revived the food stock and
              nutrition of the Old World."
              > > >
              I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking
              these days, but what a fairy tale he spins
              here in his new book! But, in reality, this
              story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz
              clearly shows that this is all fakery and lies! LOL!
              > > >
              But on a very serious note, how can Eckists
              read this sort of stuff and continue to support
              it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
              get out of that crazy lying cult org!
              > > >
              What Klemp is really selling is "service."
              Fubbi is portrayed as doing a "service"
              to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists
              now to do "service" for the mahanta's
              mission. However, it seems the Law of
              Noninterference is being overlooked
              in this fabrication of history. Karma,
              free will, and man's spiritual evolution
              with that of Soul and of Spirit should
              not be interfered with by fictional eck
              masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!
              > > >
              Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--
              it's a lie. Every eckist out there should
              be highly embarrassed to have the public
              reading this trash and distortion of historical
              facts. Fubbi does not exist and never did,
              as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those
              Wonderful ECK Masters!" This one fresh
              example indicates the whole of eckankar
              is filled with lies and distortions of truth
              that any rational person cannot overlook.
              Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned!
              Sane people would view this book as a joke,
              and shaking their heads, move on and away
              from it as quickly as possible!
              > > >
              Mish
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