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Eckists & Beggars! : )

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Sharon--thanks for sharing. I didn t remember the Klemp muffler story, but I imagine if gossiping causes such things to happen in his life, he probably
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 29, 2007
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      Hi, Sharon--thanks for sharing. I didn't remember the Klemp
      muffler story, but I imagine if gossiping causes such things
      to happen in his life, he probably suffers a lot of problems
      on a daily basis. I imagine that he still gossips a lot, and the
      true purpose of his "lesson" story was to stop eckists from
      gossiping about him!! LOL! I noted in another post on Hu-Chat
      that someone is wanting to know Klemp's birth date . . . to
      celebrate it, I guess! It is so interesting that Klemp shares so
      little about his personal life including that bit of fact! What's
      up with that???

      Anyway, regarding eck stories--how eckists create eck stories
      in their minds such as the airplane repair one you shared and
      the little mundanes of everyday life, I was reminded on a recent
      trip when noticing some panhandlers along the highway, how
      eckists are proned to view them as possible eck masters. With
      the up-coming EWWS, I have read that eckists are especially in
      the habit of giving to beggars at such events because as
      mentioned they "get it" on the inner that such a ragged individual
      is an eck master testing their spiritual awareness/consciousness,
      and so they tend to give alms freely to the beggars. It makes the
      eckists feel sooooo good to be so kind. Well, as it happened, I
      noticed this one particular beggar at the exit ramp of an interstate
      highway. I was pulling into the immediate gas station to fuel up.
      Spending some time in the station's convenience store, I saw the
      beggar come in, go swiftly to the coolers. I decided to watch what
      he did so I stayed a little longer. There was a milk and soft drink
      cooler and then there was the one containing the alcohol. The
      beggar came to the checkout counter with a tall cold beer and a
      small bottle of whisky. He pulled out his wallet that had a few bills
      in it and paid with a five! He didn't purchase any nutritional food--
      just the alcoholic beverages--looked happy as he stashed this in
      his traveling bag and was on his way! Such is the life of an eck
      master, eh??? LOL!

      I was especially interested in the beggar because the day before
      I had encountered another one at another gas station. I had to
      wonder if I should help this person out or if it was just a con, an
      intentional way of life for some. It is difficult to know what to
      do in such cases, but for sure, these beggars are not eck
      masters, and even if they would be (yeah, eck masters are
      fictional), wouldn't the test be not to give?? I mean what is the
      real motive to help such people out but to actually gain from
      the charity one is giving--the motive of growing in spirituality
      and conjuring up silly eck stories. So, in truth, eckists are not
      giving away something for free, but have their own motives for
      personal gain!

      Sharon, I agree with you that miracles and big bad things
      happen to everyone--it is part of living for all and not assigned
      to just a few. Our challenge is always what we have to deal
      with in our personal lives knowing that it does radiant out into
      society at large and the world.

      But back to the beggars, perhaps, any eckist reading about
      my recent encounters with beggars along the highway will
      have a deeper look into what might be and not be concerning
      those asking for handouts. The bottom line is these beggars
      are not eck masters and never will be. As to their true need
      or why they are needful, well, we don't usually know and
      have to decide on the spot whether to give them a helping
      hand or ignore them. That is not easy!

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Sharon
      <brighttigress@...> wrote:
      >
      > Mish, I had to laugh about the deer story! They're a big issue
      where I live, and just recently someone writing to our local
      newspaper referred to them as "Pennsylvania rats". Deer are
      suicidal and love to play "chicken" with cars, especially around
      now - it's rutting season. Just a few weeks ago, my son stopped
      for a bunch of 'em crossing the road in the middle of town - they
      were walking, not running, and one of them walked right into his
      passenger door. Duh. Last night I was thinking I should go out
      in the yard with an apple or carrot and call "Yo, deer!!" and fill the
      freezer for winter - no gun necessary, I can just grab one and
      whack it on the head with a hammer.
      >
      > Anyway, years back I read a Klempstory about his muffler
      falling off because he and his wife were gossiping in the car.
      Yeah, right. On first reading I thought his tailpipe was probably
      rusted and it had *nothing* to do with gossiping, but as a good
      widdle eckie I stomped down those "kal" thoughts. It's true - ekult
      rots the mind with its ridiculous "magical thinking" - but I think
      the most hilarious eckstory I ever read was the one where an eckie
      with a fear of flying imagined there was something wrong with the
      plane so she conjured up little eckangremlinmechanics who
      tightened up all the nuts & bolts. The plane arrived at its
      destination safely and she patted herself on the back because
      no one else, not even the pilot, had known there was anything
      wrong - the plane would've crashed if this eckist hadn't been on
      board and saved the plane!! Puh-leeze!!
      >
      > Both "miracles" and big bad things happen to *everyone*,
      whether they're eckies, Christians, atheists, Muslims (even
      terrorists!), or whatever.
      >
      > I'm just glad that I've gotten all that nonsense eckthink out of
      me. Sometimes I'll remember some of the crap in my head when I
      was a member, and I get sick thinking about how stupid I was to
      turn off my brain and focus on the cult's b.s. Like, when I'd stop
      in the store on the way home from work - it would be empty when
      I walked in, but when I got to the register there would be long lines.
      According to Klemp, that was because so many starving souls
      were drawn to all that "spirit" flowing thru me!
      >
      > Anyway, the deer story *was* funny! Oh!! Just the other day
      I came around a corner on a back road nearby, and there was a
      great big beautiful bear sitting there on the side of the road! It
      was *so* gorgeous! Betcha it weighed about 400 lbs.
      Unfortunately, it meandered across the road and ran off thru a field
      before I found my camera-phone in my purse. Glad I didn't hit it -
      hitting a bear does a lot more damage than hitting a deer!
      >
      > Have a great weekend, everyone!
      >
      > Hugs,
      >
      > Sharon
      >
      >
      >
      > EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > There are 5 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1a. Eckankar Creates Dangers to Society
      > From: mishmisha9
      > 1b. Re: Eckankar Creates Dangers to Society
      > From: prometheus_973
      > 1c. why?
      > From: beatljif_1150
      > 1d. Re: Why--Does Eckankar/Religion Do What They Do?
      > From: prometheus_973
      >
      > 2a. ECKists Can't Comprehend PT's Shariyats
      > From: prometheus_973
      >
      >
      > Messages
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1a. Eckankar Creates Dangers to Society
      > Posted by: "mishmisha9" mishmisha9@... mishmisha9
      > Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))
      >
      >
      > From Hu-Chat, this nutty eck story by a very
      > delusional and off balanced eckist reminds me
      > of Klemp's story of driving from Las Vegas to
      > California with no brakes:
      >
      > "[HU-Chat] Another ECK Miracle
      >
      > I was driving on the Freeway at 80 mile per hour - at night
      > in Montana. In my headlights appeared two deer straight
      > ahead of me. There was nothing I could do. But one deer
      > went to the right and you couldn't have put a postage stamp
      > between the car and its tail and the other one was on the
      > left without a millimeter to spare while I sailed between the
      > two. Utterly, totally amazing!
      >
      > :-)
      > Dorothea"
      >
      > Notice how proudly this eckist tells her story, as though,
      > this is a wonderful miracle proving how amazing the eck is!
      > It doesn't sound like she learned anything but rather reinforced
      > her delusional belief that the eck will protect "her" with no
      > regard of the eck protecting society (in this case, the deer) from
      > the delusional thinking and behaviors of eckists. At times, I have
      > thought that eckankar is not so harmful but instead regard it as
      > more of a joke, but when eckists share how they think . . . well,
      > sometimes it becomes alarming.
      >
      > Self-centeredly it seems that Dorothea doesn't see this as a
      > miracle for the deer, protecting them from the insanity of her
      > behavior, driving at a high speed down the highway? She shows
      > no regard for her dangerous actions, similar to Klemp not
      > factoring in how dangerous it was for others to be on the highway
      > with him when he drove intentionally with no brakes. Yes, if
      > Dorothea had struck the innocent animals, she could have been
      > killed, but so would have been animals! But hey, isn't this
      > detachment at its best, not to mention the deer's karma of being
      > there at the time this wild woman eckist was racing along!!! LOL!
      >
      > But, this is the real question--if this is such a miracle, who was it
      > for? Dorothea or the deer?? I tend to think that the deer were protected
      > from Dorothea, and thus, I believe it is important to protect others
      > from eckankar and the delusional thinking and behaviors that evolves
      > from it! ESA and other anti-eckankar sites continue to point out this
      > nonsense and crazy way of thinking and behaving! Yes, eckankar is
      > DANGEROUS!
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > p.s. Dorothea wrote that there was nothing she could do--at the
      > terrifying moment--but of course, she created the dangerous
      > situation she put herself and the deer in by driving so fast!
      > Sadly, she doesn't own up to her lack of responsibility for driving at
      > an unsafe speed on that highway at night. I assume that she thought
      > the highway was all hers, plus, she obviously lives with the delusional
      > belief as an eckist that the mahanta is protecting her at all times
      > and no harm will come to her! But, hey, maybe Klemp will find
      > this a wonderful story to relate in his talk at the up-coming EWWS! LOL!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1b. Re: Eckankar Creates Dangers to Society
      > Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
      > Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:11 pm ((PDT))
      >
      > Hi Mish,
      > I agree that Doree, like many ECKists, is delusional!
      > I wonder why Twitchell and Klemp never define what
      > a "miracle" is in both the ECKANKAR Dictionary or in
      > the Lexicon? Klemp "wrote" his Lexicon in 1998 so he
      > had the opportunity to explain and define EK "miracles"
      > in this source book for the public and chelas.
      >
      > Most religions have a need for both major and minor
      > "miracles" in order to establish and reestablish over
      > and over their truth (dogma). These stories are used
      > to position themselves as the best and highest source
      > of truth and knowledge over that of everyone else!
      >
      > Actually, the "miracle" stories are mostly for those
      > ignorant, superstitous, and fearful followers who have
      > tunnel vision and can't see that others (non-Eckists)
      > have miracles too - and even greater ones! Each religion
      > uses their own private religious dogma and the accounts/
      > testimonies ("spiritual" stories) of their believers to,
      > supposedly, show and "prove" that their reality is either
      > the best or one and only "reality." All religions use "miracle"
      > stories and Eckankar is a Lower Plane Religion just like all
      > the rest. Eckankar is of the Mental Plane. The written and
      > spoken word, as well as, thoughts are of the Mental Plane.
      >
      > And, like all religious followers Eckists just can't admit
      > that they are in the same Religious Boat as the others,
      > and Eckists are Not even on as high of a deck as some!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > Mish wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From Hu-Chat, this nutty eck story by a very
      > > delusional and off balanced eckist reminds me
      > > of Klemp's story of driving from Las Vegas to
      > > California with no brakes:
      > >
      > > "[HU-Chat] Another ECK Miracle
      > >
      > > I was driving on the Freeway at 80 mile per hour - at night
      > > in Montana. In my headlights appeared two deer straight
      > > ahead of me. There was nothing I could do. But one deer
      > > went to the right and you couldn't have put a postage stamp
      > > between the car and its tail and the other one was on the
      > > left without a millimeter to spare while I sailed between the
      > > two. Utterly, totally amazing!
      > >
      > > :-)
      > > Dorothea"
      > >
      > > Notice how proudly this eckist tells her story, as though,
      > > this is a wonderful miracle proving how amazing the eck is!
      > > It doesn't sound like she learned anything but rather reinforced
      > > her delusional belief that the eck will protect "her" with no
      > > regard of the eck protecting society (in this case, the deer) from
      > > the delusional thinking and behaviors of eckists. At times, I have
      > > thought that eckankar is not so harmful but instead regard it as
      > > more of a joke, but when eckists share how they think . . . well,
      > > sometimes it becomes alarming.
      > >
      > > Self-centeredly it seems that Dorothea doesn't see this as a
      > > miracle for the deer, protecting them from the insanity of her
      > > behavior, driving at a high speed down the highway? She shows
      > > no regard for her dangerous actions, similar to Klemp not
      > > factoring in how dangerous it was for others to be on the highway
      > > with him when he drove intentionally with no brakes. Yes, if
      > > Dorothea had struck the innocent animals, she could have been
      > > killed, but so would have been animals! But hey, isn't this
      > > detachment at its best, not to mention the deer's karma of being
      > > there at the time this wild woman eckist was racing along!!! LOL!
      > >
      > > But, this is the real question--if this is such a miracle, who was it
      > > for? Dorothea or the deer?? I tend to think that the deer were protected
      > > from Dorothea, and thus, I believe it is important to protect others
      > > from eckankar and the delusional thinking and behaviors that evolves
      > > from it! ESA and other anti-eckankar sites continue to point out this
      > > nonsense and crazy way of thinking and behaving! Yes, eckankar is
      > > DANGEROUS!
      > >
      > > Mish
      > >
      > > p.s. Dorothea wrote that there was nothing she could do--at the
      > > terrifying moment--but of course, she created the dangerous
      > > situation she put herself and the deer in by driving so fast!
      > > Sadly, she doesn't own up to her lack of responsibility for driving at
      > > an unsafe speed on that highway at night. I assume that she thought
      > > the highway was all hers, plus, she obviously lives with the delusional
      > > belief as an eckist that the mahanta is protecting her at all times
      > > and no harm will come to her! But, hey, maybe Klemp will find
      > > this a wonderful story to relate in his talk at the up-coming EWWS! LOL!
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1c. why?
      > Posted by: "beatljif_1150" beatljif_1150@... beatljif_1150
      > Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:09 pm ((PDT))
      >
      > It seems to me that IF those who join a group, ANY GROUP including the
      > E group, they would be sincere in reaching and supposedly dwelling in
      > states of being in God Consciousness and perhaps beyond.
      > But its kinda hard to be in such states if your not at peace with
      > yourself and others. Meaning trying to define reality for a group of
      > people. Rescuing them is curious because being weighed down by their
      > constant neurosis over "ARE WE THERE YET"? would probably create a
      > descent for the mouthpiece of god themself.
      > Eventually contradictions will occur and give the already fueled
      > fire, more fuel for the fire, adding still more confusion.
      > Why a person wants to rescue the multitude is a study in itself.
      > Issues with being incomplete are not a good motivation to help others.
      > Was Twich complete according to Sighn?Probably not, and this is
      > the fallacy-holding people down while claiming otherwise. The Indian
      > continent is historically full of this help and hinder virus which
      > riddles the Sound and Light paths there; and as a social virus have
      > spread to the american continent.
      > Controlling others and liberating are at odds, and dont liberate
      > anyone.
      > Most people who know dont go around gathering lost sheep,least they
      > become lost themselves.
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      >
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Mish,
      > > I agree that Doree, like many ECKists, is delusional!
      > > I wonder why Twitchell and Klemp never define what
      > > a "miracle" is in both the ECKANKAR Dictionary or in
      > > the Lexicon? Klemp "wrote" his Lexicon in 1998 so he
      > > had the opportunity to explain and define EK "miracles"
      > > in this source book for the public and chelas.
      > >
      > > Most religions have a need for both major and minor
      > > "miracles" in order to establish and reestablish over
      > > and over their truth (dogma). These stories are used
      > > to position themselves as the best and highest source
      > > of truth and knowledge over that of everyone else!
      > >
      > > Actually, the "miracle" stories are mostly for those
      > > ignorant, superstitous, and fearful followers who have
      > > tunnel vision and can't see that others (non-Eckists)
      > > have miracles too - and even greater ones! Each religion
      > > uses their own private religious dogma and the accounts/
      > > testimonies ("spiritual" stories) of their believers to,
      > > supposedly, show and "prove" that their reality is either
      > > the best or one and only "reality." All religions use "miracle"
      > > stories and Eckankar is a Lower Plane Religion just like all
      > > the rest. Eckankar is of the Mental Plane. The written and
      > > spoken word, as well as, thoughts are of the Mental Plane.
      > >
      > > And, like all religious followers Eckists just can't admit
      > > that they are in the same Religious Boat as the others,
      > > and Eckists are Not even on as high of a deck as some!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > Mish wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > From Hu-Chat, this nutty eck story by a very
      > > > delusional and off balanced eckist reminds me
      > > > of Klemp's story of driving from Las Vegas to
      > > > California with no brakes:
      > > >
      > > > "[HU-Chat] Another ECK Miracle
      > > >
      > > > I was driving on the Freeway at 80 mile per hour - at night
      > > > in Montana. In my headlights appeared two deer straight
      > > > ahead of me. There was nothing I could do. But one deer
      > > > went to the right and you couldn't have put a postage stamp
      > > > between the car and its tail and the other one was on the
      > > > left without a millimeter to spare while I sailed between the
      > > > two. Utterly, totally amazing!
      > > >
      > > > :-)
      > > > Dorothea"
      > > >
      > > > Notice how proudly this eckist tells her story, as though,
      > > > this is a wonderful miracle proving how amazing the eck is!
      > > > It doesn't sound like she learned anything but rather reinforced
      > > > her delusional belief that the eck will protect "her" with no
      > > > regard of the eck protecting society (in this case, the deer) from
      > > > the delusional thinking and behaviors of eckists. At times, I have
      > > > thought that eckankar is not so harmful but instead regard it as
      > > > more of a joke, but when eckists share how they think . . . well,
      > > > sometimes it becomes alarming.
      > > >
      > > > Self-centeredly it seems that Dorothea doesn't see this as a
      > > > miracle for the deer, protecting them from the insanity of her
      > > > behavior, driving at a high speed down the highway? She shows
      > > > no regard for her dangerous actions, similar to Klemp not
      > > > factoring in how dangerous it was for others to be on the highway
      > > > with him when he drove intentionally with no brakes. Yes, if
      > > > Dorothea had struck the innocent animals, she could have been
      > > > killed, but so would have been animals! But hey, isn't this
      > > > detachment at its best, not to mention the deer's karma of being
      > > > there at the time this wild woman eckist was racing along!!! LOL!
      > > >
      > > > But, this is the real question--if this is such a miracle, who was it
      > > > for? Dorothea or the deer?? I tend to think that the deer were
      > protected
      > > > from Dorothea, and thus, I believe it is important to protect others
      > > > from eckankar and the delusional thinking and behaviors that evolves
      > > > from it! ESA and other anti-eckankar sites continue to point out this
      > > > nonsense and crazy way of thinking and behaving! Yes, eckankar is
      > > > DANGEROUS!
      > > >
      > > > Mish
      > > >
      > > > p.s. Dorothea wrote that there was nothing she could do--at the
      > > > terrifying moment--but of course, she created the dangerous
      > > > situation she put herself and the deer in by driving so fast!
      > > > Sadly, she doesn't own up to her lack of responsibility for driving at
      > > > an unsafe speed on that highway at night. I assume that she thought
      > > > the highway was all hers, plus, she obviously lives with the
      > delusional
      > > > belief as an eckist that the mahanta is protecting her at all times
      > > > and no harm will come to her! But, hey, maybe Klemp will find
      > > > this a wonderful story to relate in his talk at the up-coming
      > EWWS! LOL!
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1d. Re: Why--Does Eckankar/Religion Do What They Do?
      > Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
      > Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:59 am ((PDT))
      >
      > Hello and welcome,
      > Yes, some religions do try to liberate people while,
      > also, wanting to control them. However, I doubt that
      > being a member of these religions and following the
      > group's dogma would lead people to dwell in states
      > of Beingness, God Consciousness, or Beyond. IMO
      > any dogma will hinder an individual's personal and
      > private spiritual growth. The group's consciousness
      > will always be lower than what the individual Soul
      > can achieve through It's own journey via privately
      > studying/sampling a number of masters/teachers
      > words, experiences, opinions and techniques.
      >
      > The problem with Eckankar is the Lack of interplane/
      > intercommunication with the Whole. For example:
      > Eckists see the Astral as negative and bad versus part
      > of the Seamless Unification of the Fabric of Life. This
      > Unity of Consciousness includes all planes and subplanes
      > of IT/WHY/WHATEVER. However, religion loves its ability
      > to separate, limit, and to conform individuals. Contradictions
      > exist within all religions because all religions are full of
      > lies and the religious leaders are liars and manipulators
      > looking for money and power, as well as, masses of believers
      > to show & prove how intelligent, spiritual, and humble
      > they are.
      >
      > BTW- Here's a quote from EK's big Hare's Auto, pg.341:
      > "Choices in life sometimes appear to be no choice at all.
      > This was such a time. COMMON SENSE said, 'Fix the brakes!
      > LIVE MOMENT TO MOMENT. What good is money if you have
      > a wreck?' ... So I went to the temple of my heart to pose the
      > question: stay or go? The Inner Master [Darwin?] said, 'Go!
      > I am always with you.' We hoped so. It would take more than
      > luck to survive the Orange County freeways during rush hour
      > without brakes."
      >
      > Apparently Klemp rejected using 'Common Sense' or the 'Live
      > Moment to Moment' in the Here and Now or of using sane
      > judgment!
      >
      > Yet, aren't these EK principles that he preaches to his chelas?!
      > Instead, HK tells of stacking a car to the ceiling and overloading
      > it and then driving onto a rush hour freeway without brakes!
      > I'm certain that other idiots have done the same and survived
      > as well... and I'll bet they're Not Eckists with an "Inner Master"
      > to protect them!
      >
      > The bigger question is: What is Klemp teaching his chelas
      > and the ECK YOUTH with such stupid stories showing his
      > irresponsibility and a total lack of concern for the well being
      > of others?! See! This is just more proof of HK's continued
      > imbalance, anti-social attitude, and lack of empathy for
      > others. This should have been edited or revised (in this
      > year 2000 copyright) and shown in a different light rather
      > than in such a negative one for chelas to emulate. Or, did
      > HK get mentally confused with what he was trying to say
      > regarding 'Common Sense' and 'Live Moment To Moment?'
      > Fakes and False Prophets do tend to slip up the more they
      > speak about themselves.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > "beatljif_1150" wrote:
      > >
      > It seems to me that IF those who join a group, ANY GROUP
      > including the E group, they would be sincere in reaching and
      > supposedly dwelling in states of being in God Consciousness
      > and perhaps beyond.
      >
      > But its kinda hard to be in such states if your not at peace with
      > yourself and others. Meaning trying to define reality for a group
      > of people. Rescuing them is curious because being weighed down
      > by their constant neurosis over "ARE WE THERE YET"? would probably
      > create descent for the mouthpiece of god themself.
      > >
      > Eventually contradictions will occur and give the already fueled
      > fire, more fuel for the fire, adding still more confusion.
      >
      > Why a person wants to rescue the multitude is a study in itself.
      > >
      > Issues with being incomplete are not a good motivation to help others.
      > >
      > Was Twich complete according to Sighn?Probably not, and this is
      > the fallacy-holding people down while claiming otherwise. The Indian
      > continent is historically full of this help and hinder virus which
      > riddles the Sound and Light paths there; and as a social virus have
      > spread to the american continent.
      >
      > Controlling others and liberating are at odds, and dont liberate
      > anyone.
      >
      > Most people who know dont go around gathering lost sheep,least they
      > become lost themselves.
      >
      >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > >
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Mish,
      > > > I agree that Doree, like many ECKists, is delusional!
      > > > I wonder why Twitchell and Klemp never define what
      > > > a "miracle" is in both the ECKANKAR Dictionary or in
      > > > the Lexicon? Klemp "wrote" his Lexicon in 1998 so he
      > > > had the opportunity to explain and define EK "miracles"
      > > > in this source book for the public and chelas.
      > > >
      > > > Most religions have a need for both major and minor
      > > > "miracles" in order to establish and reestablish over
      > > > and over their truth (dogma). These stories are used
      > > > to position themselves as the best and highest source
      > > > of truth and knowledge over that of everyone else!
      > > >
      > > > Actually, the "miracle" stories are mostly for those
      > > > ignorant, superstitous, and fearful followers who have
      > > > tunnel vision and can't see that others (non-Eckists)
      > > > have miracles too - and even greater ones! Each religion
      > > > uses their own private religious dogma and the accounts/
      > > > testimonies ("spiritual" stories) of their believers to,
      > > > supposedly, show and "prove" that their reality is either
      > > > the best or one and only "reality." All religions use "miracle"
      > > > stories and Eckankar is a Lower Plane Religion just like all
      > > > the rest. Eckankar is of the Mental Plane. The written and
      > > > spoken word, as well as, thoughts are of the Mental Plane.
      > > >
      > > > And, like all religious followers Eckists just can't admit
      > > > that they are in the same Religious Boat as the others,
      > > > and Eckists are Not even on as high of a deck as some!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Mish wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > From Hu-Chat, this nutty eck story by a very
      > > > > delusional and off balanced eckist reminds me
      > > > > of Klemp's story of driving from Las Vegas to
      > > > > California with no brakes:
      > > > >
      > > > > "[HU-Chat] Another ECK Miracle
      > > > >
      > > > > I was driving on the Freeway at 80 mile per hour - at night
      > > > > in Montana. In my headlights appeared two deer straight
      > > > > ahead of me. There was nothing I could do. But one deer
      > > > > went to the right and you couldn't have put a postage stamp
      > > > > between the car and its tail and the other one was on the
      > > > > left without a millimeter to spare while I sailed between the
      > > > > two. Utterly, totally amazing!
      > > > >
      > > > > :-)
      > > > > Dorothea"
      > > > >
      > > > > Notice how proudly this eckist tells her story, as though,
      > > > > this is a wonderful miracle proving how amazing the eck is!
      > > > > It doesn't sound like she learned anything but rather reinforced
      > > > > her delusional belief that the eck will protect "her" with no
      > > > > regard of the eck protecting society (in this case, the deer) from
      > > > > the delusional thinking and behaviors of eckists. At times, I have
      > > > > thought that eckankar is not so harmful but instead regard it as
      > > > > more of a joke, but when eckists share how they think . . . well,
      > > > > sometimes it becomes alarming.
      > > > >
      > > > > Self-centeredly it seems that Dorothea doesn't see this as a
      > > > > miracle for the deer, protecting them from the insanity of her
      > > > > behavior, driving at a high speed down the highway? She shows
      > > > > no regard for her dangerous actions, similar to Klemp not
      > > > > factoring in how dangerous it was for others to be on the highway
      > > > > with him when he drove intentionally with no brakes. Yes, if
      > > > > Dorothea had struck the innocent animals, she could have been
      > > > > killed, but so would have been animals! But hey, isn't this
      > > > > detachment at its best, not to mention the deer's karma of being
      > > > > there at the time this wild woman eckist was racing along!!! LOL!
      > > > >
      > > > > But, this is the real question--if this is such a miracle, who was it
      > > > > for? Dorothea or the deer?? I tend to think that the deer were
      > > protected
      > > > > from Dorothea, and thus, I believe it is important to protect others
      > > > > from eckankar and the delusional thinking and behaviors that evolves
      > > > > from it! ESA and other anti-eckankar sites continue to point out this
      > > > > nonsense and crazy way of thinking and behaving! Yes, eckankar is
      > > > > DANGEROUS!
      > > > >
      > > > > Mish
      > > > >
      > > > > p.s. Dorothea wrote that there was nothing she could do--at the
      > > > > terrifying moment--but of course, she created the dangerous
      > > > > situation she put herself and the deer in by driving so fast!
      > > > > Sadly, she doesn't own up to her lack of responsibility for driving at
      > > > > an unsafe speed on that highway at night. I assume that she thought
      > > > > the highway was all hers, plus, she obviously lives with the
      > > delusional
      > > > > belief as an eckist that the mahanta is protecting her at all times
      > > > > and no harm will come to her! But, hey, maybe Klemp will find
      > > > > this a wonderful story to relate in his talk at the up-coming
      > > EWWS! LOL!
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 2a. ECKists Can't Comprehend PT's Shariyats
      > Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
      > Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:07 am ((PDT))
      >
      > ECKists should reread the last few pages of Chapter 4
      > in the Shariyat I. Since all words and thoughts are said
      > to be of the 4th Mental Plane Chelas should use these
      > reasoning processes to understand what is or is Not
      > being communicated in this 1st Section (Earth Plane)
      > portion of their Bible (Holy Book).
      >
      > Twitchell states that "The highest of all spiritual regions,
      > the Kingdom of the Sugmad... is the Anami, the nameless
      > region."
      >
      > Well, I guess that since it's called the "Anami" that the
      > "nameless" Does Have A Name! Duh!
      >
      > Also, isn't it interesting that this "highest of all spiritual
      > regions, the Kingdom of the Sugmad" is the 10th Plane!
      > The LEM is a 12th and 13th Plane Initiate. Each EK
      > Initiation Number represents the Plane of Consciousness
      > that the EK chela's consciousness is established upon (or
      > at least the previous number or plane)! This is why initiation
      > Numbers are so important to Eckists (whether they admit
      > to it or not)!
      >
      > This comment, by Twitchell, represents only one of many
      > flaws in his Eckankar dogma that he created early on. The
      > real reason for the additional Planes (11-14) being "higher"
      > than the one Sugmad resides upon (the 10th) is that other
      > religions such as Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang, also,
      > mention the Anami Lok. "THE PATH of the MASTERS" contains
      > these references and this was PT's main resource book.
      >
      > Twit felt compelled to create something greater AFTER he
      > had his fall out with Kirpal Singh over his fictionalized "The
      > Tiger's Fang" manuscript in 1965-66. PT then edited his
      > own writings, but did not correct everything. As the "Mahanta"
      > PT could explain away anything and everything since all
      > others were below his newly created 14th Plane awareness
      > (Catch-22 again!).
      >
      > Here's another quote in this Shariyat Chapter 4 of Book One:
      > "--the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad--... Each plane has a portion of
      > of this holy manuscript, ACCORDING TO THE UNDERSTANDING
      > OF THE CHELAS who reach this plane."
      >
      > So, who determines what "UNDERSTANDING" is true for the each
      > individual CHELA's consciousness? Shouldn't this be Soul?! Nope!
      > In the Eckankar religion the one who determines what is true
      > or false for the "group consciousness" is the LEM. And, the one
      > who determines what is true or false for each individual Soul
      > is Not Soul - it is the LEM/Mahanta!
      >
      > However, why does Klemp need to explain a 1st or 2nd Plane
      > (Kal) "portion" of the Shariyat to Chela's whose consciousness
      > is established on Higher Planes? Do ECKists need HK to explain
      > everything? At what initiation level are they permitted to stand
      > upon their own "spiritual" legs? Afterall, a 3rd Initiate and "Higher"
      > should be able to "understand" the Shariyat Book Two!
      > However, shouldn't Book One be even easier for Chelas to
      > comprehend ! Except, they can't and won't see the Truth!
      > Instead, Klemp will always be there to lead around by the nose!
      > The real Truth (the fraud) is too painful and fearful for them to
      > see. And, their foolishment is too difficult for them to admit!
      >
      > Here's another quote from Chapter 4: "Those who watch over
      > the golden scripts of the Sugmad are the NINE UNKNOWN GODS
      > of ETERNITY. They are different from the ECK Masters who act
      > as the teachers, instructers, and watch-guards for the portions
      > of the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad kept upon each plane. The NINE
      > UNKNOWN GODS are the KEEPERS of the DIVINE FLAME of WISDOM.
      > They LET ONLY A FEW INTO THEIR TEMPLES to learn the deeper
      > knowledge of what the SECRET TRUTHS might hold for them."
      >
      > What ever happened to the NINE SILENT ONES? Twitchell now,
      > early on in Book One, calls these Beings "Gods." Has Klemp ever
      > mentioned, in 25 years, this connection with these NINE GODS
      > and the WISDOM TEMPLES? I don't think so!
      >
      > Also, HK has NEVER said that only a chosen "FEW" (chelas and
      > non-chelas too?) get into "THEIR (the Nine Unknown Gods)
      > TEMPLES." Yet, here it is in writing in their Holy Book!
      >
      > More later--
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > ***
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Billie,
      > > Welcome to the site! I'm curious about this Yoga instructor.
      > > Was she the EK Local Director or in some other high position?
      > > I'm, also, curious as to how she approached you and slipped
      > > the Eckankar propaganda into the conversation. Was karma,
      > > past lives, chi/eck, HU, the heart center, love, or mention
      > > of detachment used or was it another approach?
      > >
      > > Yes, these Eckists talk like parrots (intro brochures) of all kinds
      > > of things like Planes, dreams and Soul travel, past lives, karma,
      > > spiritual growth, Masters, outer/inner protection, and Soul.
      > > However, the founder of Eckankar Paul Twitchell used the teachings
      > > of other religions such as (but not limited to) Radhasoami & Ruhani
      > > Satsang in order to create his own personal scam/vocation/joke
      > > that he named Eckankar. Years later, (1969), PT found it necessary
      > > to create the title of "Mahanta" in order to place his words and
      > > teachings above all others and to keep his hold on his membership
      > > during unrestful times and when there was criticism from without
      > > and within the org.
      > >
      > > The truth is, each Eckist creates and recreates Eckankar to fit
      > > their own personal agendas, habits, needs, and opinions because
      > > there are no real specifics beyond the Mental Plane to follow. This is
      > > why many needy (fearful) Eckists mimic Klemp (EMR problems, etc.).
      > > Klemp, too, always has the final word and is always right regardless
      > > of logic and common sense. Therefore, HK (like a Pope) never
      > > corrected or added new insights to HIS OWN earlier observations or
      > > comments as LEM/Mahanta in his "Autobiography." HK has stated
      > > that consciousness, even for one with the "Mahanta" Consciousness,
      > > is ever expanding.
      > >
      > > Thus, according to Klemp many of the the comments and writings
      > > made in a earlier time by the one and only (original) Mahanta, Twitchell,
      > > are no longer relevant to the times! Why aren't Klemp's earlier comments
      > > and observations that are taken from two other earlier books ("Child"
      > > and "Soul Travelers") and used to create HK's "Autobiography" subject
      > > to this same standard?
      > >
      > > Besides, is it the "Mahanta Consciousness" that is ever increasing
      > > or Soul's ability to decipher or understand it? HK confuses Eckists
      > > in order to keep them guessing, off balance, and dependent upon
      > > him for answers that they must, eventually, accept (surrender to).
      > > This is, of course, a type of brain-washing/fear technique used by
      > > power mongers and religions world-wide and throughout history!
      > >
      > > The regulations become clearer when Eckists are instructed
      > > to follow the org's outer Guidelines and the membership structure.
      > > These are always updated, corrected, or deleted as were Twitchell's
      > > earlier works. Only the Shariyats and a few other books have survived
      > > Klemp's censorship.
      > >
      > > Still, most Eckists know of the Unspoken Guidelines of Behaviour
      > > that prevents chelas from asking too many questions or the
      > > "wrong" questions. Violations of these Unspoken Guidelines will
      > > prevent a chela from receiving an Initiation within the "normal"
      > > time frame (now used) for that level of initiation. These "Violations"
      > > will also prevent some chelas from being appointed to Local
      > > Satsang Society Positions of EK Leadership. Of course, there are
      > > cases where some these "Unspoken Guidelines" become very
      > > subjective from RESA to RESA.
      > >
      > > Anyway, Klemp wants to create an atmosphere of fear and
      > > contradiction because it allows the chelas' imaginations to
      > > fill-in the blanks and to place their trust in him as they "surrender"
      > > their spiritual freedom and independent responsibility as Soul.
      > > Each member (chela) of Eckankar is encouraged to create their
      > > own reality, but only according to Eckankar. Eckists don't want
      > > to admit it or to see the Truth that all religions do the same,
      > > except, in their own unique fashion.
      > >
      > > The problem that Klemp has is that the Eckankar teachings (the
      > > dogma created by Twitchell) gives the "Inner" Mahanta via chelas'
      > > imaginations more and greater authority for Eckists than does the
      > > Outer (physical) LEM - Klemp! Ironically, this is a Catch-22 for Klemp!
      > > Klemp (the LEM) is not a pretty picture of what many Eckists want
      > > to become or can become (male). Why have these physical limitations
      > > anyway? Can't one create, through imagination, so much more on
      > > the "inner" in this present life with hopes of even greater adventures
      > > and rewards in the Continuation of Existence after this physical life?!
      > > Of course, and this is also the Kal Trap that Klemp preaches in order
      > > to prevent Souls from leaving his fold/prison of illusion!
      > >
      > > Therefore, Eckankar (like any religion) is a mixed bag of half-truths
      > > whose goal is to increase membership. They all do this by making a
      > > lot of promises that their competition (other religions) make with
      > > a different spin. Eckankar's spin includes the multi-level
      > > initiations, the belief in Soul (as us), the multiple Planes, karma,
      > > Masters, the LEM/Mahanta etc. to set itself apart from other Western/
      > > Eastern New Age religions. It's a hodge-podge religion with some
      > > Christian Bible quotes (King James Version) along with references
      > > to Rumi, etc. thrown in for good measure!
      > >
      > > Eckists have to develop a good imagination just to believe these
      > > ramblings of half-truths. Unfortunately, as one believes and accepts
      > > more and more while surrendering logic, common sense, and critical
      > > thinking they also become more deluded and dependent upon the
      > > fictional andimaginary Mahanta to make every decision for them.
      > > Co-dependence is disguised as Co-workership and this becomes
      > > the manipulated, passive, and narcissistic reality for most of these
      > > Eckists. This dysfunction causes other maladies which tend to
      > > increase through the years and with each "Higher" Initiation level.
      > >
      > > Anyway, please feel free to coment more!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > > "Billie Watkins Jr" samaustinashlee_billiewjr@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > "THIS IS NOT A SITE for those Eckists who want to do their vahana
      > > > > (missionary) work by thinking they need to argue for Eckankar or
      > > > > protect their beloved mahanta from the truth. If Klemp is what he says
      > > > > (but he isn't!) then why would he need to be protected from the Truth
      > > > > and the comments shared on this site? Therefore, arguments defending
      > > > > Eckankar will be DELETED. Sorry, if you want to do battle for Eckankar
      > > > > find another site. Besides, the Spiritual Volunteer Guidelines for
      > > > > posting on the Internet states that Eckists shouldn't get into negative
      > > > > discussions about Eckankar. If you go against the guidelines approved
      > > > > by HK then you also go against your mahanta."
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > I really like what you have stated. I have been doing Yoga for
      > > > about 10 years and I recently started going to a gym here at University
      > > > of New Orleans. The head instructor ask me to come to her (she is the
      > > > head of the organization here) to group for several events this weekend.
      > > >
      > > > I learned in my life, starting with "Believe half of what you see and
      > > > nothing that you read",politics and christianity, I don't buy into,
      > > > pardon me, any shit anyone has to sell me.
      > > >
      > > > I obviously did not go, spent time with my family, and told myself
      > > > to do some research online to see about this eakaradagedoodee stuff.
      > > >
      > > > I guess people need a savior, no matter how they get it. This has,
      > > > and still does, happen all the time. Anyway, enough of my babal,
      > > > thanks again.
      > > >
      > > > Billie Watkins Jr.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (3)
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