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Donations to eckankar - justifications and rationalizations

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  • Ingrid
    Hello all, That s what I have found on donations on huchat lately. And as always, it s always the fault of the chelas if they don t understand eckankar s
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 16, 2007
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      Hello all,
       
      That's what I have found on donations on huchat lately. And as always, it's always the fault of the chelas if they don't understand eckankar's actions! And of course they pretend that eckankar is just offering and the chela is free to accept or not! Well, what a delusion! LOL! We, the "detractors" - we are just offering as well and the chela is free to accept or not - so why do ekkies see that differently?! LOL!
       
      Here is the original message:
      quote
      i can understand Anna how you feel about donations i am the same.
      Mark youre right membership fees in eckankar are stable.
      i remember that a few years ago eckankar sent a letter to all chelas asking to
      include eckankar in their last will
      and to conclude a life insurance in eckankars favor
      i didnt like that at all it reminded me of the indulgence payments in middle age
      so i wrote to esc to ask but never got an answer
      does somebody here remember that promotion and can explain
      unquote
       
      Here is one of the responses:
      Quote
      I've been following this conversation and I can't resist putting my two
      cents in at this point.

      We live in the physical world. And it requires physical coin to get certain
      things done. Without our donations the land in Chanhassen couldn't have
      been purchased. Without our donations, the Temple of ECK would not have been
      built, the office couldn't have been built and moved onto the campus grounds,
      the Celebrations of Life Chapel would still be a drawing on paper. Without
      our donations, how many free books do you figure could have been handed out to
      seekers through the Internet and phone requests?

      Yes, we pay our membership fees, which have barely risen in 35 years, but
      they have to pay the staff (of whom many work second jobs to make ends meet -
      they aren't paid extravagantly) , pay utility bills, postage and printing for
      discourses, print books, and a whole host of other things. We all benefit
      from everything they do. But no one is doing it for ECKANKAR for free. The
      electric company doesn't care who they are. They have to pay their way in this
      world the same way we all do.

      So if they send out a mailing reminding us of the goal of finishing the
      construction of the spiritual campus, which includes a few more buildings to
      complete Sri Harold's vision, I'm fine with that. It's up to everyone to decide
      whether they want to donate then or not. But I certainly am not going to
      take offence that they ask.

      As for the will thing, I personally know of several people who contacted the
      ESC asking how they could go about making ECKANKAR a beneficiary in theirs
      wills. My guess is since they'd been asked that question so many times, they
      decided to make that information public for those who choose to do so.

      I don't see a problem with being asked. The Mahanta waits until we ask him
      to come into our lives. I don't see that asking for help is a bad thing. So
      why would it be a bad thing for ECKANKAR to ask us for help too?

      Donate or not, it's up to each individual to decide. I've never seen
      ECKANKAR try to guilt anyone or pressure in any way. They just ask. Any sense of
      guilt or pressure most certainly comes from within the individual and what
      they're bringing to the table.

      We all have our quirks, fears, hang-ups, and paranoias from past lives as
      well as this one. I had a knee-jerk reaction to one of their mailings a while
      back too. I took that as an indication that I needed to look deeper into my
      own heart to see why I was mistrusting the people I love the most. By doing
      that, I found the vine that had grown around my heart and needed weeding.
      That made room for healing and allowed me to see things more clearly, from the
      present moment that was unclouded by my past.

      If you have any kind of an emotional response to these requests, I'd highly
      recommend examining oneself instead of assuming motives to ECKANKAR. It's
      the Mahanta bringing the gift to you. You have the opportunity to grow in
      trust and love, whether you decide to send a check or not. The cause for
      self-examination is the real blessing.
      unquote

      Like I said, just my two cents.
      unquote
       
      Ingrid


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    • Non ekster
      Yes, so it seems that ECKANKARP is not all powerful and way too ethereal for anything miraculous to happen. This argument is just the same as for any other
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 19, 2007
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        Yes, so it seems that ECKANKARP is not all powerful and way too
        ethereal for anything miraculous to happen. This argument is just the
        same as for any other religion. What would they do without handing
        over their inheritance and giving them money? What they are doing is
        just the same as an INFOMERCIAL or PAID ADVERTISING.

        > We live in the physical world. And it requires physical coin to get
        certain
        > things done. Without our donations the land in Chanhassen couldn't have
        > been purchased. Without our donations, the Temple of ECK would not
        have been
        > built, the office couldn't have been built and moved onto the campus
        grounds,
        > the Celebrations of Life Chapel would still be a drawing on paper.
        Without
        > our donations, how many free books do you figure could have been
        handed out to
        > seekers through the Internet and phone requests?

        Nonekster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ingrid
        <ctecvie@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello all,
        >
        > That's what I have found on donations on huchat lately. And as
        always, it's always the fault of the chelas if they don't understand
        eckankar's actions! And of course they pretend that eckankar is just
        offering and the chela is free to accept or not! Well, what a
        delusion! LOL! We, the "detractors" - we are just offering as well and
        the chela is free to accept or not - so why do ekkies see that
        differently?! LOL!
        >
        > Here is the original message:
        > quote
        > i can understand Anna how you feel about donations i am the same.
        > Mark youre right membership fees in eckankar are stable.
        > i remember that a few years ago eckankar sent a letter to all chelas
        asking to
        > include eckankar in their last will
        > and to conclude a life insurance in eckankars favor
        > i didnt like that at all it reminded me of the indulgence payments
        in middle age
        > so i wrote to esc to ask but never got an answer
        > does somebody here remember that promotion and can explain
        > unquote
        >
        > Here is one of the responses:
        > Quote
        > I've been following this conversation and I can't resist putting my two
        > cents in at this point.
        >
        > We live in the physical world. And it requires physical coin to get
        certain
        > things done. Without our donations the land in Chanhassen couldn't have
        > been purchased. Without our donations, the Temple of ECK would not
        have been
        > built, the office couldn't have been built and moved onto the campus
        grounds,
        > the Celebrations of Life Chapel would still be a drawing on paper.
        Without
        > our donations, how many free books do you figure could have been
        handed out to
        > seekers through the Internet and phone requests?
        >
        > Yes, we pay our membership fees, which have barely risen in 35
        years, but
        > they have to pay the staff (of whom many work second jobs to make
        ends meet -
        > they aren't paid extravagantly) , pay utility bills, postage and
        printing for
        > discourses, print books, and a whole host of other things. We all
        benefit
        > from everything they do. But no one is doing it for ECKANKAR for
        free. The
        > electric company doesn't care who they are. They have to pay their
        way in this
        > world the same way we all do.
        >
        > So if they send out a mailing reminding us of the goal of finishing the
        > construction of the spiritual campus, which includes a few more
        buildings to
        > complete Sri Harold's vision, I'm fine with that. It's up to
        everyone to decide
        > whether they want to donate then or not. But I certainly am not
        going to
        > take offence that they ask.
        >
        > As for the will thing, I personally know of several people who
        contacted the
        > ESC asking how they could go about making ECKANKAR a beneficiary in
        theirs
        > wills. My guess is since they'd been asked that question so many
        times, they
        > decided to make that information public for those who choose to do so.
        >
        > I don't see a problem with being asked. The Mahanta waits until we
        ask him
        > to come into our lives. I don't see that asking for help is a bad
        thing. So
        > why would it be a bad thing for ECKANKAR to ask us for help too?
        >
        > Donate or not, it's up to each individual to decide. I've never seen
        > ECKANKAR try to guilt anyone or pressure in any way. They just ask.
        Any sense of
        > guilt or pressure most certainly comes from within the individual
        and what
        > they're bringing to the table.
        >
        > We all have our quirks, fears, hang-ups, and paranoias from past
        lives as
        > well as this one. I had a knee-jerk reaction to one of their
        mailings a while
        > back too. I took that as an indication that I needed to look deeper
        into my
        > own heart to see why I was mistrusting the people I love the most.
        By doing
        > that, I found the vine that had grown around my heart and needed
        weeding.
        > That made room for healing and allowed me to see things more
        clearly, from the
        > present moment that was unclouded by my past.
        >
        > If you have any kind of an emotional response to these requests, I'd
        highly
        > recommend examining oneself instead of assuming motives to ECKANKAR.
        It's
        > the Mahanta bringing the gift to you. You have the opportunity to
        grow in
        > trust and love, whether you decide to send a check or not. The cause
        for
        > self-examination is the real blessing.
        > unquote
        >
        > Like I said, just my two cents.
        > unquote
        >
        > Ingrid
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        > Need a vacation? Get great deals
        > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
        > http://travel.yahoo.com/
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi All, Actually, the EK membership fee (donation) has more than doubled in 35 years! So, for this HU-Chatter (below quote) to lie about this and play this
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 20, 2007
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          Hi All,
          Actually, the EK membership fee (donation)
          has more than doubled in 35 years! So, for
          this HU-Chatter (below quote) to lie about
          this and play this down makes one question
          his other "facts."

          Since Eckankar needs money and uses money
          then why don't they give an accounting for
          the money spent? Why not share all of the
          financial information that shows where the
          donated money goes? Why would there be
          secrets concerning this Lower Plane use of
          resources, unless, there has been inappropriate
          spending like with Gross?! The difference
          now is the "EK Board" has no authority since
          Klemp restructured the org and this makes
          it easier for the "CEO/LEM" to manipulate
          the Board and hide anything he wants!

          Why are there insignificant buildings being
          built... like the "outdoors" Chapel and now
          a Museum is scheduled? Why not build an EK
          compound of sorts with condos (for members),
          shops, daycare, and a private school? Where
          are the dreams of securing EK in the World?

          See! This is just one more reason why I see
          Klemp as a distractor and as a KAL agent!
          Where is the real spiritual focus when all
          HK presents is a never ending continuation
          of a facade'. It's all smoke and mirrors to
          make Eckists feel good as though something
          grand is being accomplished. It's not! It's
          just some (mostly) useless buildings, his
          stupid books with OP stories, and testamonials
          with a lot of imagination thrown in, and
          a lot of glitter to puff everyone up so they
          can feel special.



          BTW, Klemp doesn't even pay his ESC people
          a decent wage for the 40 hours they put in
          let alone all of the overtime that is listed
          as "voluntary." Why?

          Why Do Eckists believe in a poverty consciousness?
          Do some feel they spent their "good" karma up in
          finding EK? I'm sure some feel they don't deserve
          or need anything or much in this here and now on
          planet earth. And, some want to "bank" their good
          karma for higher spiritual accomplishments! Does
          it really work that way? Is the Mahanta the CEO
          of the Karma Bank too?! Or, is the Mahanta CEO
          only special and "real" for Eckists? Well, just
          look around at all of the other religions... and
          they do claim: ECKANKAR, The Religion of the Light
          and Sound of God. See, why do they say "God" instead
          of SUGMAD, or why isn't "God" in all caps? Or,
          do Eckists, unknowingly, follow God... the Kal...
          Satan?! Hmmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists should think about
          these things... just for a little while... and ask
          Why is it this way? Where's my voice and the freedom
          to express my views?! Why should the Law of Silence
          be used as a Catch-22!

          Prometheus



          eckchains wrote:
          >
          Yes, so it seems that ECKANKARP is not all
          powerful and way too ethereal for anything
          miraculous to happen. This argument is just
          the same as for any other religion. What
          would they do without handing over their
          inheritance and giving them money? What they
          are doing is just the same as an INFOMERCIAL
          or PAID ADVERTISING.



          ***
          HU-Chat Member/ESC Moderator or Parrot?:

          "We live in the physical world. And it
          requires physical coin to get certain
          things done. Without our donations the
          land in Chanhassen couldn't have been
          purchased. Without our donations, the
          Temple of ECK would not have been built,
          the office couldn't have been built and
          moved onto the campus grounds, the
          Celebrations of Life Chapel would still
          be a drawing on paper. Without our
          donations, how many free books do you
          figure could have been handed out to
          seekers through the Internet and phone
          requests?

          ... Yes, we pay our membership fees,
          which have barely risen in 35 years,
          but they have to pay the staff (of
          whom many work second jobs to make
          ends meet."
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Ingrid, Thanks for putting these HU-Chat comments onto ESA. I had a few more comments to make. HU-Chat Member with my comments in brackets: i can
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 23, 2007
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            Hi Ingrid,
            Thanks for putting these HU-Chat comments onto
            ESA. I had a few more comments to make.


            HU-Chat Member with my comments in brackets:

            "i can understand Anna how you feel about donations
            i am the same. Mark youre right membership fees in
            eckankar are stable {now}. i remember that a few years
            ago eckankar sent a letter to all chelas asking to
            include eckankar in their last will and to conclude
            a life insurance in eckankars favor i didnt like that
            at all it reminded me of the indulgence payments
            in middle age so i wrote to esc to ask but never
            got an answer {no wonder!} does somebody here remember
            that promotion and can explain?" {"promotion" is right!}

            Here is one of their responses with my comments:

            "I've been following this conversation and I
            can't resist putting my two cents in at this
            point... We all have our quirks, fears, hang-ups,
            and paranoias from past lives as well as this one.
            {Eckists still have them even with HK "protecting"
            them and taking on their karma} I had a knee-jerk
            reaction {an inner nudge or a knowingness from Soul}
            to one of their mailings a while back too.

            I took that {nudge} as an indication that I needed
            to look deeper into my own heart... {to surpress the
            nudge - he assumes had to be something wrong with him
            and not with Eckankar or Klemp's leadership}. I found
            the vine that had grown around my heart and needed
            weeding {it wasn't a weed dummy!}. That made room for
            healing and allowed me to see things more clearly
            {how delusional!}, from the present moment that was
            unclouded by my past."

            ME: Don't give Eckankar credit for the positive changes
            You've made on your own, any religion can help one re-
            examine and re-evaluate one's life up to a point.

            "If you have any kind of an emotional response to these
            requests, I'd highly recommend examining oneself instead
            of assuming motives to ECKANKAR."

            ME: Eckists see "emotions" as bad, and therefore Eckists
            have lost much of their compassion for others. They just
            leave it to karma and wash their hands of situations or
            of heartfelt concern and even of responsibility. This,
            especially, happens with non-Eck family members because
            it's easy to disconnect from them in a passive manner.
            It's harder to learn through doing what is humane and
            loving yet Eckists and Klemp like to "talk" about the
            heart. Except, they only "love" within the confines
            of their Dogma and those who follow their Mahanta and
            who can accept Twitchell's & Klemp's religious scam
            the the highest truth when even Marman states that PT
            used 'half-truths' to create Eckankar! These Eckists
            are too delusional and fearful to see the real TRUTH!

            Prometheus

            BTW-
            In EK people never use the term "assume" [although
            they do all the time] because they "believe" their imagined
            experiences are "real" or are uncommon to others! Eckists
            believe are on the highest path because they are told they
            are and they want to believe they are! They believe in
            their initiations both present and future. Eckists think,
            feel, believe, and hope these are real indicators of
            spiritual growth. Such is the trap of the mind and its
            ego in compensating for fear, guilt, and shame. Such is
            the trap of Kal, (i.e. God, Satan) and of religion.
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