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Re: Why "Forever" On 4th Plane Writings

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Etznab, I thought I d reply to your response to David, and to his comments too. Yes! The Shariyat Book Two is supposed to correspond to the Astral Plane.
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 9, 2007
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      Hi Etznab,
      I thought I'd reply to your response to David,
      and to his comments too.

      Yes! The Shariyat Book Two is supposed to
      correspond to the Astral Plane. So, should
      that Section of the Shariyat be read with
      feeling and emotion, or is it directed to
      influence (via vibration) one's Astral Body?

      It seems strange that the Four Zoas, EK Initiations,
      etc. would be explained in a ASTRAL Section of
      the Shariyat versus a Mental Plane or higher Section.

      Apparently Twitchell did finish several chapters
      of the Shariyat Book Three (Causal Section) before
      his untimely death. Unfortunately, Klemp has been
      unable to complete this "transcription."

      It seems that many ECKists view their own private
      ECKANKAR as individuals rather than with a group
      or mass mentality. Then again, ECKANKAR promotes
      an individual division of consciousness due to
      the separation created by many Initiation Circles
      and the many local RESA Hierarchical positions of
      authority, Co-workership, as an "explorer" or "settler"
      or both!

      And, it was always stated that ECKANKAR was an
      Individual Path and that New ECKists could study
      the discourses on their own at home and Need Not
      go to a center or to meetings. And, that after receiving
      the Second Initiation that Soul Need Not return to the
      Physical Plane for a rebirth.

      There are things about the ECK Teachings that most
      ECKists view as both Literal and Figurative. Many take
      a "Literal View" that ECKANKAR is an "Individual Path."

      ECKists will also accept, literally, "Soul is a Law unto Itself."

      There are other concepts that that ECKists can accept
      literally, but there are also many concepts that ECKists
      see in "figurative" terms. Maybe the Mahanta is seen
      as a figurative concept of Divine personal love. Yes,
      Klemp being the "Mahanta" is a more figurative belief,
      than literal, because the LEM is literally in charge of
      ECKANKAR while the Mahanta is supposed to be a state
      of "Consciousness" that is broad and all encompassing,
      and Loving rather than narrow and exclusive. Except,
      Klemp does his best at excluding others from his exalted
      and private kingdom (of Mahanta Consciousness) where
      he alone is King of the Hill... Forever, or until death do
      us part! Therefore, as LEM HK is King of the outer (for
      ECKists) and as Mahanta HK is King of the Inner.

      Of course, it's obvious to many that it's just a charade.
      It's all acting "as if" this or that is true. Words and imagination
      become real when people need a religious "fix."

      Prometheus

      p.s.
      Announcing your plans is a good way to see God laugh.




      etznab wrote:
      >
      Dave,
      >
      I was under the impression that the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad,
      Book Two, corresponded with the Astral Plane.
      >
      Etznab

      David wrote:
      >
      Hello Prometheus,
      I have been reading your site for many months and
      have decided to attempt a post since you have been
      respectful to fellow Eckist Etznab.
      >
      I like the fact that this is a site where "disgruntled
      and frustrated Eckists" can post anonymously.
      Unfortunately, this is one important point that is
      missing within Eckankar because criticism is always
      seen as a negative that must be avoided at all costs.
      >
      I won't attemp to get into a debate or even a back
      and forth discussion as to our differing opinions of
      Eck. Instead I think that I will just share my pov of the
      things that we can come close to agree upon. Truth
      is mostly subjective anyway.
      >
      1.) You make some good points concerning the
      Shariyat Books One and Two and Harold's comments
      in the Mystic World. There are contradictions when
      Harold states that thoughts and words are Mental
      Plane and that Eckists need to read the Eck Holy Books
      (our Bibles) 'forever' in order to comprehend this finite
      Mental Plane knowledge. Harold (the man) sounds and
      acts way too Christian for me to believe in him completely.
      That's why I look to the Mahanta.
      >
      2.) You make another good point with each Section or
      Book of the Shariyat representing a corresponding Plane
      of Consciousness - up to the 12th Plane. It is an unusual
      circumstance when the Second Section of the Shariyat is
      located on the Physical Plane along with the First (earth)
      Section whereas the others, 3rd Causal Plane and 4th Mental
      Plane, Sections of the Shariyat are not located here for us
      to read. Many Eckists I've spoken to have been disappointed
      and puzzled with Harold for not having written or transcribed
      these other two Books since they too are of the lower worlds
      as you have pointed out.
      >
      3.) You make another good point about Eckankar's Creation
      Myth involving the Garden of Eden and Adom and Ede. I admit
      that pointing this out does add to the confusion and doubts
      that many Eckists already have. But, sometimes the Truth does
      hurt because change and the expansion of awareness can
      become uncomfortable until we take out the trash! Truth is
      always the better choice (for me) over fiction and ignorance.
      >
      David
    • etznab@aol.com
      Prometheus, I liked your inclusion, or use of the word figurative . Like with many different things, I tend to believe outer information is only like the tip
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 9, 2007
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        Prometheus,

           I liked your inclusion, or use of the word "figurative". Like with many
        different things, I tend to believe outer information is only like the tip of
        an iceberg. I imagine the rest, and that which supports the visible, has
        to be discovered through personal experience.

           Much of recorded history, I believe, represents only a fraction of the
        whole truth - the actual truth. Like the tip of an iceberg represents but
        a fraction of that which supports it.

           Sharing my humble opinion.

        Etznab



        **************************************
        See what's new at http://www.aol.com
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, Etznab and everyone! I agree that recorded history is only a fraction of the whole truth. I don t really know how one could possibly write it all down
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 9, 2007
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          Hi, Etznab and everyone!

          I agree that recorded history is only a fraction of the
          whole truth. I don't really know how one could possibly
          write it all down accurately as it involves too much action
          and reaction all to varying degrees of the participants. I'd
          think one would almost have to record everything from
          moment to moment to get it, but yet even then there is all
          the misunderstandings and lack of fully absorbing what
          goes on at all times and then resulted effects.

          I find it interesting as Prometheus wrote in his post,
          "Apparently Twitchell did finish several chapters
          of the Shariyat Book Three (Causal Section) before
          his untimely death. Unfortunately, Klemp has been
          unable to complete this 'transcription,'"that Klemp
          can't finish the Shariyat 3!! Why is that when
          Klemp has written that he has seen Paul busily writing in
          the Astral Library that Klemp is so incompetent and unable
          to complete this task? If Klemp can see Paul there, why hasn't
          the one master connected to the present master of the
          universe?? Why doesn't old Twitch help Klemp out here? Well,
          let's see, could it all be lies! I think so! LOL! I doubt very
          much if all the research of eckankar history will prove
          otherwise. This one fact, that of Klemp failing to complete
          volume 3 of the Shariyat, is enough damning evidence to
          show that Klemp and eckankar is a fraud!

          Mish


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
          etznab@... wrote:
          >
          > Prometheus,
          >
          > I liked your inclusion, or use of the word "figurative". Like with many
          > different things, I tend to believe outer information is only like the tip of
          > an iceberg. I imagine the rest, and that which supports the visible, has
          > to be discovered through personal experience.
          >
          > Much of recorded history, I believe, represents only a fraction of the
          > whole truth - the actual truth. Like the tip of an iceberg represents but
          > a fraction of that which supports it.
          >
          > Sharing my humble opinion.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
          >
          > **************************************
          > See what's new at
          > http://www.aol.com
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Here s what Twitchell states (circa June, 1971) about having more than Two Shariyats: It s coming through--the whole history of ECK is coming through now in
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 10, 2007
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            Here's what Twitchell states (circa June, 1971)
            about having more than Two Shariyats:

            "It's coming through--the whole history of ECK
            is coming through now in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad,
            and this is where all you people are going to be at
            an advantage because you've been at a disadvantage
            before. When somebody asks you about the background
            of ECKANKAR, you never knew what to say, so now
            you're going to have the advantage of it. 'Cause with
            all of that, see, I WRITE BOOKS IN SERIES. I HAVE FOUR
            BOOKS THAT ARE FINISHED NOW; WELL, THE SHARIYAT
            IS A CONTINUED WRITING, BUT I'VE GOT THREE BOOKS
            ACTUALLY. IN THE NEXT SERIES, I'M TAKING UP THE
            MAHANTA AND ALL THE HISTORY OF THE MAHANTA
            BACK TO THE BEGINNING, SO YOU PEOPLE WILL HAVE
            SOMETHING YOU CAN GO BY." [Difficulties Of Becoming
            The Living ECK Master, pages 135-136]

            Isn't it, also, interesting to see the real writing style
            of Twitchell as he explains WHY he is writing the fake
            history for ECKists to use when gathering new members.
            Is it any wonder, then, that PT's plagarisms sound like
            another person... or was that just good editing!

            But, it seems that No Edit was done on this Book and
            these Comments that were written just months prior to
            PT's death.

            Prometheus


            mishmisha wrote:
            > >
            Hi, Etznab and everyone!
            > >
            I agree that recorded history is only a fraction of the
            whole truth. I don't really know how one could possibly
            write it all down accurately as it involves too much action
            and reaction all to varying degrees of the participants. I'd
            think one would almost have to record everything from
            moment to moment to get it, but yet even then there is all
            the misunderstandings and lack of fully absorbing what
            goes on at all times and then resulted effects.
            > >
            I find it interesting as Prometheus wrote in his post,
            "Apparently Twitchell did finish several chapters
            of the Shariyat Book Three (Causal Section) before
            his untimely death. Unfortunately, Klemp has been
            unable to complete this 'transcription,'"that Klemp
            can't finish the Shariyat 3!! Why is that when
            Klemp has written that he has seen Paul busily writing in
            the Astral Library that Klemp is so incompetent and unable
            to complete this task? If Klemp can see Paul there, why hasn't
            the one master connected to the present master of the
            universe?? Why doesn't old Twitch help Klemp out here? Well,
            let's see, could it all be lies! I think so! LOL! I doubt very
            much if all the research of eckankar history will prove
            otherwise. This one fact, that of Klemp failing to complete
            volume 3 of the Shariyat, is enough damning evidence to
            show that Klemp and eckankar is a fraud!
            > >
            Mish
            > >
            > >

            etznab@ wrote:
            > > >
            Prometheus,
            > > >
            I liked your inclusion, or use of the word "figurative". Like with many
            different things, I tend to believe outer information is only like the tip of
            an iceberg. I imagine the rest, and that which supports the visible, has
            to be discovered through personal experience.
            > > >
            Much of recorded history, I believe, represents only a fraction of the
            whole truth - the actual truth. Like the tip of an iceberg represents but
            a fraction of that which supports it.
            > > >
            Sharing my humble opinion.
            > > >
            Etznab
          • prometheus_973
            Twitchell mentions the Shariyat and states he has Four Books that are finished now, and says, I write books in series. PT also says, the Shariyat is a
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 11, 2007
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              Twitchell mentions the Shariyat and states he has
              "Four Books that are finished now," and says, "I
              write books in series." PT also says, "the Shariyat
              is a continued writing" and then he backpeddals
              by stating, "but I've Got Three Books Actually."
              This shows where Twit has once again made
              an exaggeration by stating he had Four Shariyats
              and then states that he "actually" had Three.
              However, these comments also suggest that PT
              was planning to write all 12 Sections of the Shariyat.

              So, once again we have to wonder... What's wrong
              with Klemp that he can't fill Twitchell's shoes, and
              has to rely upon Two 37 year old Shariyat Holy
              Books for ECKANKAR? It's bad enough that these
              Two Shariyat Sections only represent the first Two
              Lower Planes, but they are also 37 years old and
              are not current teachings. Yet Klemp states that
              ECKists could/should read them "Forever!"

              BTW- Why doesn't Klemp offer the book, "Difficulties
              Of Becoming The Living ECK Master?" Klemp should
              reprint this book or at least make it available in "ebook"
              form [and unedited] for all ECKists to read... it's EK
              History! The reason that this will never happen is
              because Klemp fears the truth and doesn't want to
              be bothered with the questions that would arise. Why
              not just keep ECKists in the dark. It's easier this way,
              and is what a KAL agent would do. Isn't that the purpose
              of all religion... ECKANKAR included? Keep Soul trapped
              and distracted with delusional promises by an "All
              Knowing" leader with "Holy" scripture to back him up.

              And notice that with religion it's always a male leader
              that has exclusive power over all but even more power
              over women. Why has there never been a Female Mahanta
              when a female can be an ECK Master?! They can't incarnate
              and handle the lower world physical vibrations when in
              a female (negative) body?! What a load of Bull SH_T! That
              only applies to the LEM anyway and Not to a Mahanta,
              and one Does Not need to be both... correct? ECKists
              just need to clear the cobwebs out and "think" like they
              use to. ECKANKAR has more similaries to other religions,
              especially since Klemp took over, than they would care
              to admit. Don't let all of those female RESAs and 8th
              and 9th Initiates fool you. None are as high as a "potential"
              Male LEM/Mahanta.


              Prometheus
              p.s. I liked the U2 9/11 video clip, except, for the
              end where G.W. makes a heartfelt comment that
              someone else obviously wrote for him.




              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Here's what Twitchell states (circa June, 1971)
              > about having more than Two Shariyats:
              >
              > "It's coming through--the whole history of ECK
              > is coming through now in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad,
              > and this is where all you people are going to be at
              > an advantage because you've been at a disadvantage
              > before. When somebody asks you about the background
              > of ECKANKAR, you never knew what to say, so now
              > you're going to have the advantage of it. 'Cause with
              > all of that, see, I WRITE BOOKS IN SERIES. I HAVE FOUR
              > BOOKS THAT ARE FINISHED NOW; WELL, THE SHARIYAT
              > IS A CONTINUED WRITING, BUT I'VE GOT THREE BOOKS
              > ACTUALLY. IN THE NEXT SERIES, I'M TAKING UP THE
              > MAHANTA AND ALL THE HISTORY OF THE MAHANTA
              > BACK TO THE BEGINNING, SO YOU PEOPLE WILL HAVE
              > SOMETHING YOU CAN GO BY." [Difficulties Of Becoming
              > The Living ECK Master, pages 135-136]
              >
              > Isn't it, also, interesting to see the real writing style
              > of Twitchell as he explains WHY he is writing the fake
              > history for ECKists to use when gathering new members.
              > Is it any wonder, then, that PT's plagarisms sound like
              > another person... or was that just good editing!
              >
              > But, it seems that No Edit was done on this Book and
              > these Comments that were written just months prior to
              > PT's death.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > mishmisha wrote:
              > > >
              > Hi, Etznab and everyone!
              > > >
              > I agree that recorded history is only a fraction of the
              > whole truth. I don't really know how one could possibly
              > write it all down accurately as it involves too much action
              > and reaction all to varying degrees of the participants. I'd
              > think one would almost have to record everything from
              > moment to moment to get it, but yet even then there is all
              > the misunderstandings and lack of fully absorbing what
              > goes on at all times and then resulted effects.
              > > >
              > I find it interesting as Prometheus wrote in his post,
              > "Apparently Twitchell did finish several chapters
              > of the Shariyat Book Three (Causal Section) before
              > his untimely death. Unfortunately, Klemp has been
              > unable to complete this 'transcription,'"that Klemp
              > can't finish the Shariyat 3!! Why is that when
              > Klemp has written that he has seen Paul busily writing in
              > the Astral Library that Klemp is so incompetent and unable
              > to complete this task? If Klemp can see Paul there, why hasn't
              > the one master connected to the present master of the
              > universe?? Why doesn't old Twitch help Klemp out here? Well,
              > let's see, could it all be lies! I think so! LOL! I doubt very
              > much if all the research of eckankar history will prove
              > otherwise. This one fact, that of Klemp failing to complete
              > volume 3 of the Shariyat, is enough damning evidence to
              > show that Klemp and eckankar is a fraud!
              > > >
              > Mish
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              > etznab@ wrote:
              > > > >
              > Prometheus,
              > > > >
              > I liked your inclusion, or use of the word "figurative". Like with many
              > different things, I tend to believe outer information is only like the tip of
              > an iceberg. I imagine the rest, and that which supports the visible, has
              > to be discovered through personal experience.
              > > > >
              > Much of recorded history, I believe, represents only a fraction of the
              > whole truth - the actual truth. Like the tip of an iceberg represents but
              > a fraction of that which supports it.
              > > > >
              > Sharing my humble opinion.
              > > > >
              > Etznab
              >
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