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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: More From Twitchell's Compiled Writings:

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  • etznab@aol.com
    The first time MAHANTA appears in Letters to Gail (1983 version) is in the 1st letter (4th paragraph). It was given in capital letters. Very quickly I
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 26, 2007
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         The first time "MAHANTA" appears in Letters to Gail
      (1983 version) is in the 1st letter (4th paragraph). It was
      given in capital letters.

         Very quickly I scanned Letters to Gail, Volumes One,
      Two, and Three for another appearance. It's possible I
      overlooked it, but I didn't see another appearance. Not
      in any of the Letters to Gail.

         Though it's possible that the one appearance was
      added later on, I really can't say for sure.

         Would like to know for sure though, because I haven't
      heard a 1962 date quoted much in connection with the
      "Mahanta" term used by Eckankar. Not sure that even
      Ford Johnson used this date in his book. I think Ford
      used 1965. Others have used 1969. Only recently was
      it pointed out to me that this term appeared in a 1962
      letter from Paul to Gail. Before that, I too was under the
      impression that it's first appearance was not until 1969.

      Etznab

        

      Etznab

        



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    • etznab@aol.com
      Too bad you don t still have that earlier version of Letters to Gail. That way you could tell me if the word MAHANTA appeared in it. I do remember something
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 26, 2007
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           Too bad you don't still have that earlier version of Letters to Gail.
        That way you could tell me if the word "MAHANTA" appeared in it.

           I do remember something mentioned by Doug Marman about the
        likelihood of "Eck Terms" being added later by Paul Twitchell to at
        least one of his books. Something to that effect. Think it was from
        the online "Dialogues" book. So I'm wondering if "MAHANTA: was
        later added to L.T.G. Vol. One. What do you think?

           Here is the Doug Marman quote I was referring to:

        "[....] In Paul's book, Dialogues with the Master, which was
        apparently written around 1956-57, Paul asks an inner master
        by the name of Rami Nuri about the meaning of the Master:

                PAUL: "I wish to ask a question of you, Lord."
                RAMI NURI: "I am not your Lord, but ask."
                PAUL: "Is there such a being as MAHANTA?"
                RAMI NURI: "Only as the manifested power... The God-Power
        can take any shape it desires. Usually, the Godman takes the shape
        of others in the inner cosmic worlds to appear to certain teachers, and
        devotees to give them the true Light."
                PAUL: "If he appeared in his own form then they would either not
        know him, or perhaps would not believe."
                RAMI NURI: "He appears to all ECK chelas as the Mahanta, the
        Living ECK Master and the Master to any of his disciples.        
                                  "He is in as many forms as he desires to be. He could
        appear to one or many in contemplation. He can appear as a thousand or
        even a million  different forms to a million different people in contemplation
        at the same time...        
                                   "However, let us say this - those who do not see him
        in his true form as the Godman, Himself, will see him only as their teacher
        or guru, and to them he gives the inner teachings as only they, the disciples,
        can accept."

              "While it is likely that Paul later added the ECK terms to this text
        before it was published in 1970, still the meaning is clear. And, finally
        Paul had to realize that with everything he had experienced, and with
        all his writings and creative expressions that he wanted to share, they
        could no longer fit with any of his previous teachings. He could find no
        home for those teachings with his past teachers. Therefore, ECKANKAR
        was something that would have to stand on its own. [....]"

        [Based on: http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Five.htm]

            Don't know if this quote will transfer without getting broken up
        into a bunch of scattered lines, nevertheless the text is there.

           So this idea about "Eck Terms" being added later on is not new
        to me - when you compare the earlier manuscripts/versions of what
        Paul wrote with the later published forms.

           I'm not gonna jump to conclusions though about the L.T.G. book.
        Whether the term "MAHANTA" was there in the original or not. The
        fact is (based on what I have seen), I can only give the information I
        have.

        Etznab

          



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      • Elizabeth
        Etznab, keep your eye on eBay! Many long time eckists from back in the beginning, have been selling off their first copy material. Maybe David Lane can
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 27, 2007
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          Etznab,  keep your eye on eBay!  Many long time eckists from back in the beginning, have been selling off their first copy material.  Maybe David Lane can point you toward the material, or at least hook you up with the researchers he had buying the stuff up.  I have seen some of them posting on various sites...  Not all were members of eckankar either!   One other thing to remember too,   since Gail sold all of the rights to PT's material to eckankar, that gave them "legal" rights to change what ever they wanted to fix their problem!  I wouldn't buy into Doug's spin, nor the book,  that will eventually create another splinter group.  
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 8/26/2007 11:52:40 PM
          Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: More From Twitchell's Compiled Writings:
           

             Too bad you don't still have that earlier version of Letters to Gail.
          That way you could tell me if the word "MAHANTA" appeared in it.

             I do remember something mentioned by Doug Marman about the
          likelihood of "Eck Terms" being added later by Paul Twitchell to at
          least one of his books. Something to that effect. Think it was from
          the online "Dialogues" book. So I'm wondering if "MAHANTA: was
          later added to L.T.G. Vol. One. What do you think?

             Here is the Doug Marman quote I was referring to:

          "[....] In Paul's book, Dialogues with the Master, which was
          apparently written around 1956-57, Paul asks an inner master
          by the name of Rami Nuri about the meaning of the Master:

                  PAUL: "I wish to ask a question of you, Lord."
                  RAMI NURI: "I am not your Lord, but ask."
                  PAUL: "Is there such a being as MAHANTA?"
                  RAMI NURI: "Only as the manifested power... The God-Power
          can take any shape it desires. Usually, the Godman takes the shape
          of others in the inner cosmic worlds to appear to certain teachers, and
          devotees to give them the true Light."
                  PAUL: "If he appeared in his own form then they would either not
          know him, or perhaps would not believe."
                  RAMI NURI: "He appears to all ECK chelas as the Mahanta, the
          Living ECK Master and the Master to any of his disciples.        
                                    "He is in as many forms as he desires to be. He could
          appear to one or many in contemplation. He can appear as a thousand or
          even a million  different forms to a million different people in contemplation
          at the same time...        
                                     "However, let us say this - those who do not see him
          in his true form as the Godman, Himself, will see him only as their teacher
          or guru, and to them he gives the inner teachings as only they, the disciples,
          can accept."

                "While it is likely that Paul later added the ECK terms to this text
          before it was published in 1970, still the meaning is clear. And, finally
          Paul had to realize that with everything he had experienced, and with
          all his writings and creative expressions that he wanted to share, they
          could no longer fit with any of his previous teachings. He could find no
          home for those teachings with his past teachers. Therefore, ECKANKAR
          was something that would have to stand on its own. [....]"

          [Based on: http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Five.htm]

              Don't know if this quote will transfer without getting broken up
          into a bunch of scattered lines, nevertheless the text is there.

             So this idea about "Eck Terms" being added later on is not new
          to me - when you compare the earlier manuscripts/versions of what
          Paul wrote with the later published forms.

             I'm not gonna jump to conclusions though about the L.T.G. book.
          Whether the term "MAHANTA" was there in the original or not. The
          fact is (based on what I have seen), I can only give the information I
          have.

          Etznab

            



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        • Elizabeth
          Did Doug ever question Darwin Gross concerning the history of PT and the teachings, while writing his book? Wouldn t that have been a hoot if he had
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 27, 2007
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            Did Doug ever question Darwin Gross concerning the "history"  of PT and the teachings, while writing his book?   Wouldn't that have been a hoot if he had Darwin promoting "The Whole Truth" !   Hmmm,  maybe Doug should align himself with ATOM, he just might get a promotion to "grand pooh bah"?   
             
              
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            From: Elizabeth
            Date: 8/27/2007 9:37:49 AM
            Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: More From Twitchell's Compiled Writings:
             
            Etznab,  keep your eye on eBay!  Many long time eckists from back in the beginning, have been selling off their first copy material.  Maybe David Lane can point you toward the material, or at least hook you up with the researchers he had buying the stuff up.  I have seen some of them posting on various sites...  Not all were members of eckankar either!   One other thing to remember too,   since Gail sold all of the rights to PT's material to eckankar, that gave them "legal" rights to change what ever they wanted to fix their problem!  I wouldn't buy into Doug's spin, nor the book,  that will eventually create another splinter group.  
             
             
          • etznab@aol.com
            Thanks for sharing that ewickings. I ll keep that in mind. Etznab ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 27, 2007
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                 Thanks for sharing that ewickings. I'll keep that in mind.

              Etznab



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            • Non ekster
              This is very interesting, especially about Stravinsky. I wonder if there isn t yet another unquoted source here, as if Twitchell was really a musicologist or
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 12, 2007
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                This is very interesting, especially about Stravinsky. I wonder if
                there isn't yet another unquoted source here, as if Twitchell was
                really a musicologist or something. How often have you heard a
                Stravinsky or Wagner CD played at an eck seminar or worship service?
                Klemp is a bit too tepid for this kind of display.

                I remember reading this book, but have since lost track of it. And
                yyeh, why is it unpublished?

                Nonekster ; )

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                PT: Wagner Studied Under Yaubl Sacabi in Agam Des

                Hello All,
                I was inspired to look at "ECKANKAR: Compiled Writings,
                Volume I" written by Paul Twitchell in or around 1968-1969.
                [The Copyright is 1975 by Gail T. Gross]

                First, here are some comments Twitchell shares about STRAVINSKY:

                "...Stravinsky had created the music of discord and inharmonies.
                This kind of music began to break up the fixed patterns of thought
                throughout the world... The disharmony in these pieces of music
                will start breaking up set ideas, opinions and habits that one has.
                The establishment of a new pattern of thinking with the composers
                of music always causes problems in our social structure."
                [pgs. 152-153]

                Next, here's, also, some of what Twitchell had to say about Hitler's
                favorite composer:

                "WAGNER tried his best to give the world the basic word of the
                SOUND CURRENT. He had studied under the great ECK Master,
                YAUBL SACABI, in the spiritual city of AGAM DES {on the 9th Plane!}.
                He knew the principles of ECKANKAR and tried to apply them...
                When a person who has a good ear for music AND who KNOWS
                the works of ECK listens closely to Wagner's Parsifal and
                Tannhauser, he will hear clearly the sacred word HU in them. It
                can also be heard in his other major works..." [pgs.153-154]

                So, how can Klemp say that most music is negative when
                PT claims that Stravinsky is just breaking up the old thought
                patterns of his listeners in order to get them to change to and
                view other patterns. And, that Wagner's music contains the HU!
                Why is Klemp so Negative... other than being a KAL Agent?!

                And, isn't it interesting that Wagner (way back then) traveled
                to the 9th PLANE City of Agam Des to study under ECK Master
                Yaubl Sacabi and placed HU in his music! Amazing!

                I wonder if Wagner saw any UFO's while at AGAM DES?!
                WHY UFO's AT THE 9th PLANE CITY OF AGAM DES YOU SAY!
                Because Twitchell states in these same COMPILED WRITINGS:

                "Many of THOSE {aliens} in the FLYING SAUCERS and those
                who are able to project themselves directly to this earth
                planet COME FIRST TO AGAM DES in order to ACQUAINT
                THEMSELVES with the standard COARSER VIBRATIONS,
                LIKE THOSE WHICH EXIST IN THIS PLANET."

                On page 110 Twitchell states: "The logical explanation for
                UFOs is that they are NOT VISITORS FROM OUTER SPACE,
                secret developments by any government, NOR the result
                of mass hysteria. THEY ARE perfectly natural ASTRAL
                PROJECTIONS of the PSYCHIC WORLD... The UFO experience
                is generally a SUBJECTIVE ONE, something like RELIGIOUS
                or EMOTIONAL OCCURRENCES." Astral/Psychic like with the
                Eckankar Religious Experience too!

                Isn't it, also, interesting how Klemp uses much of Twitchell's
                old material for his talks and yet HK has stopped printing
                Paul's books and other writings! Don't PT's books contain
                ECK History that should be available for all ECKists to read?
                What does Klemp Fear... the Truth?

                Prometheus



                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hi All,
                >
                > Peter Anton's notes on Klemp's 2005 EWWS talk on the subject of
                > music is interesting because it is so narrow mined!
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hi Non-ekster, Didn t Klemp mention Stravinsky in a Seminar talk last year or the year before? I ll have to look for that transcript sometime. Maybe the ekies
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 15, 2007
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                  Hi Non-ekster,
                  Didn't Klemp mention Stravinsky in
                  a Seminar talk last year or the year
                  before? I'll have to look for that
                  transcript sometime. Maybe the ekies
                  on HU-Chat will research that too!
                  Anyway, it's interesting to see where
                  Klemp is getting his ideas/information
                  for his talks. It's all recycled!
                  Even some of the stories sent in by
                  eckists, which he uses to pad his talks,
                  are sometimes years old! And yet the
                  purpose of having a "living" EK Master
                  is to keep the teachings pure, as well
                  as, current. How are the teachings kept
                  "pure" with all the editing HK's done
                  or current when he recycles stories
                  in The Mystic World, the H.I. Letter,
                  or when HK uses old embellished stories
                  piled up and filed away at the ESC for
                  his talks?!

                  On another note: Isn't it interesting
                  about PT's mention of Yaubl instructing
                  Wagner on [the 9th Plane of] Agam Des,
                  and then the comments about the UFOs
                  and the "coarser vibrations." Twit
                  obviously got Agam Des confused with
                  the Astral Plane. This is the problem
                  when one lies. It's much tougher to
                  keep lies straight than when one simply
                  tells the truth. Except, there is No
                  "truth" with regard to religion and,
                  especially, in regards to ECKANKAR.

                  Prometheus

                  Non ekster wrote:
                  >
                  > This is very interesting, especially about Stravinsky. I wonder if
                  > there isn't yet another unquoted source here, as if Twitchell was
                  > really a musicologist or something. How often have you heard a
                  > Stravinsky or Wagner CD played at an eck seminar or worship service?
                  > Klemp is a bit too tepid for this kind of display.
                  >
                  > I remember reading this book, but have since lost track of it. And
                  > yyeh, why is it unpublished?
                  >
                  > Nonekster ; )
                  >
                  prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > PT: Wagner Studied Under Yaubl Sacabi in Agam Des
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > I was inspired to look at "ECKANKAR: Compiled Writings,
                  > Volume I" written by Paul Twitchell in or around 1968-1969.
                  > [The Copyright is 1975 by Gail T. Gross]
                  >
                  > First, here are some comments Twitchell shares about STRAVINSKY:
                  >
                  > "...Stravinsky had created the music of discord and inharmonies.
                  > This kind of music began to break up the fixed patterns of thought
                  > throughout the world... The disharmony in these pieces of music
                  > will start breaking up set ideas, opinions and habits that one has.
                  > The establishment of a new pattern of thinking with the composers
                  > of music always causes problems in our social structure."
                  > [pgs. 152-153]
                  >
                  > Next, here's, also, some of what Twitchell had to say about Hitler's
                  > favorite composer:
                  >
                  > "WAGNER tried his best to give the world the basic word of the
                  > SOUND CURRENT. He had studied under the great ECK Master,
                  > YAUBL SACABI, in the spiritual city of AGAM DES {on the 9th Plane!}.
                  > He knew the principles of ECKANKAR and tried to apply them...
                  > When a person who has a good ear for music AND who KNOWS
                  > the works of ECK listens closely to Wagner's Parsifal and
                  > Tannhauser, he will hear clearly the sacred word HU in them. It
                  > can also be heard in his other major works..." [pgs.153-154]
                  >
                  > So, how can Klemp say that most music is negative when
                  > PT claims that Stravinsky is just breaking up the old thought
                  > patterns of his listeners in order to get them to change to and
                  > view other patterns. And, that Wagner's music contains the HU!
                  > Why is Klemp so Negative... other than being a KAL Agent?!
                  >
                  > And, isn't it interesting that Wagner (way back then) traveled
                  > to the 9th PLANE City of Agam Des to study under ECK Master
                  > Yaubl Sacabi and placed HU in his music! Amazing!
                  >
                  > I wonder if Wagner saw any UFO's while at AGAM DES?!
                  > WHY UFO's AT THE 9th PLANE CITY OF AGAM DES YOU SAY!
                  > Because Twitchell states in these same COMPILED WRITINGS:
                  >
                  > "Many of THOSE {aliens} in the FLYING SAUCERS and those
                  > who are able to project themselves directly to this earth
                  > planet COME FIRST TO AGAM DES in order to ACQUAINT
                  > THEMSELVES with the standard COARSER VIBRATIONS,
                  > LIKE THOSE WHICH EXIST IN THIS PLANET."
                  >
                  > On page 110 Twitchell states: "The logical explanation for
                  > UFOs is that they are NOT VISITORS FROM OUTER SPACE,
                  > secret developments by any government, NOR the result
                  > of mass hysteria. THEY ARE perfectly natural ASTRAL
                  > PROJECTIONS of the PSYCHIC WORLD... The UFO experience
                  > is generally a SUBJECTIVE ONE, something like RELIGIOUS
                  > or EMOTIONAL OCCURRENCES." Astral/Psychic like with the
                  > Eckankar Religious Experience too!
                  >
                  > Isn't it, also, interesting how Klemp uses much of Twitchell's
                  > old material for his talks and yet HK has stopped printing
                  > Paul's books and other writings! Don't PT's books contain
                  > ECK History that should be available for all ECKists to read?
                  > What does Klemp Fear... the Truth?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi All,
                  > >
                  > > Peter Anton's notes on Klemp's 2005 EWWS talk on the subject of
                  > > music is interesting because it is so narrow mined!
                  > >
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello All, I wonder how many ECKists have read these words of their founder and self-appointed Mahanta, and if they ever think of how this is applied to what
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 15, 2007
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                    Hello All,
                    I wonder how many ECKists have read these words
                    of their founder and self-appointed Mahanta, and
                    if they ever think of how this is applied to what
                    Klemp is telling them or if there is a conflict?



                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > On page 166 Twitchell states that Claude Debussy was
                    > "UNCONSCIOUSLY USED by the ECK MASTERS to bring
                    > back again NATURE MUSIC... the music of the gnomes,
                    > the fairies, the water spirits, and the spirits of clouds
                    > and fire."
                    >
                    > Apparently PT doesn't mind violating the Law of Soul
                    > or the Law of Noninterference.
                    >
                    > PT: "IF the Living ECK Master THINKS it is fit to do so,
                    > he ENCOURAGES and LIFTS the the CONSCIOUSNESS
                    > of those who are musically talented... those who have
                    > talent and try to USE the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,
                    > or the ECK either in IGNORANCE or KNOWINGLY, SUFFER
                    > in the END WITH TERRIBLE DISASTERS." [pgs.166-167]
                    >
                    > It seems PT enjoys using threats! On another note-
                    > Twitchell only mentions the "MAHANTA, the Living ECK
                    > Master in the last few pages of this book. Once on page
                    > 167, once on page 168, and once on page 170!
                    >
                    > Here's what Twitchell had to say about the MAHANTA,
                    > the Living ECK Master on page 170:
                    >
                    > "The line of music both Destructive and Positive has
                    > been somewhat outlined here into the modern age.
                    > THE FUTURE SAYS that the Influence of Music will bring
                    > about BENEFITS to THOSE who can ACCEPT them, BUT
                    > EVENTUALLY the discordant elements WILL CAUSE the
                    > end of the material worlds in the last cycle, the Kali
                    > Yuga, to prepare man again for the GOLDEN AGE to
                    > come and the NEXT MAHANTA, the LIVING ECK MASTER,
                    > WHO WILL SERVE MANKIND THROUGHOUT the NEXT
                    > CYCLE of TIME."
                    >
                    > What did Twitchell mean by the "NEXT" MAHANTA/LEM
                    > in the "NEXT" Cycle of Time? Is this why Darwin stated,
                    > and thought, that PT would be the Mahanta for the next
                    > 1,000 years or longer?!
                    >
                    > In the section titled: THE LONGEVITY OF THE ANCIENT
                    > ADEPTS (pgs. 81-86) Twitchell seems obsessed with
                    > living a long life. Twit even mentions many non-adepts
                    > that he claims lived at 105-1000 or more years. PT
                    > talks about the "longevity of St. John the Apostle...
                    > no account has been given of his death..." And, of
                    > a man who "wrote the Revelations on the Isle of Patmos
                    > ... living during the Middle Ages... under the name
                    > Prester John. This would have made him about 1000
                    > years old." [pg. 83]
                    >
                    > PT also states:
                    > "Longevity is a fact well known to anyone who is capable
                    > of doing Soul Travel." [pg. 83]
                    >
                    > Yet, Twitchell (1908-1971) was only 63 when he died!
                    > This just goes to show that Twitchell had no idea, at all,
                    > that he was going to die when he did, or that he planned
                    > to sacrifice himself (by eating poison) and die at a young
                    > age. PT just made up a story that someone had intentionally
                    > poisoned him in a visit to Spain. It was probably just common
                    > food poisoning that he experienced and this weaken his
                    > already bad heart.
                    >
                    > Here's more interesting info (exaggerations & fact twisting):
                    >
                    > "Since the advent of ECKANKAR into the modern world,
                    > STARTING ABOUT 1935..."
                    >
                    > Now, who began this "advent?" Isn't it strange that this
                    > is the same year that Klemp gives (on ECKANKAR.org)
                    > for Twitchell's FIRST trip to India where HK claims PT
                    > met SUDAR SINGH. However, since Klemp gives 1908
                    > as Twitchell's birth year (Marman gives 1909) this makes
                    > Twitchell 27 years old in 1935. And, HK states that at
                    > age 27 is when PT was "exaggerating" and "twisting facts"
                    > to get into Who's Who in Kentucky! Therefore, this 1935
                    > date for the ADVENT OF ECKANKAR INTO THE MODERN
                    > WORLD is a LIE!
                    >
                    > Twitchell continues: "It appears that this ancient teaching
                    > which made its way back into the attention of the world,
                    > after lying dormant for centuries, is here for a purpose.
                    > That is to bring greater spiritual strength to all those who
                    > become its followers." [pg. 123]
                    >
                    > Therefore, we now see that ECKANKAR was created by
                    > Twitchell (in part) to help people to BELIEVE in another
                    > form of RELIGION so as to help those FOLLOWERS to
                    > develop "Greater Spiritual Strength." However, shouldn't
                    > "followers" be set free when they have developed those
                    > "greater spiritual strengths?"
                    >
                    > Or, is it that WHEN these "followers" have gained these
                    > "SPIRITUAL STRENGTHS" they will realize it and NO LONGER
                    > NEED TO BE "FOLLOWERS" or NEED ECKANKAR!
                    >
                    > One more thing and here's a good one! This seems to have
                    > been included at the end of the book by Gail. Since she once
                    > thought he was born in 1922 didn't this make her wonder?
                    > What kind of lie did PT use to explain this I wonder? On page
                    > 186 is a paragraph (an excerpt) titled:
                    >
                    > "Talks in Dublin, Ireland August, 1928" [when PT was
                    > 10 years old?] It starts out-
                    >
                    > "My greatest problem with people is dealing, not with
                    > skeptics or non-believers, but with those with failure-
                    > consciousness..."
                    >
                    > Well, Paul certaintly made a success with his newly created
                    > vocation... whodathunk! Too bad it was short lived for him,
                    > but a bit longer for Gross. HK really made out! Yep, PT just
                    > needed enough people to believe and get the ball rolling and
                    > on the band-wagon and join early on in order to get in on
                    > the ground floor of his multi-level pyramid (hierarchy) of his
                    > Eckankar scheme/religion. What's funny is that most chelas
                    > just get paid with worthless initiations - but I guess they do
                    > make people feel good and imagine that they have more!
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ************************************************************
                    > PT: Wagner Studied Under Yaubl Sacabi in Agam Des
                    > and put HU in his music.
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > I was inspired to look at "ECKANKAR: Compiled Writings,
                    > > Volume I" written by Paul Twitchell in or around 1968-1969.
                    > > [The Copyright is 1975 by Gail T. Gross]
                    > >
                    > > First, here are some comments Twitchell shares about STRAVINSKY:
                    > >
                    > > "...Stravinsky had created the music of discord and inharmonies.
                    > > This kind of music began to break up the fixed patterns of thought
                    > > throughout the world... The disharmony in these pieces of music
                    > > will start breaking up set ideas, opinions and habits that one
                    has.
                    > > The establishment of a new pattern of thinking with the composers
                    > > of music always causes problems in our social structure."
                    > > [pgs. 152-153]
                    > >
                    > > Next, here's, also, some of what Twitchell had to say about
                    Hitler's
                    > > favorite composer:
                    > >
                    > > "WAGNER tried his best to give the world the basic word of the
                    > > SOUND CURRENT. He had studied under the great ECK Master,
                    > > YAUBL SACABI, in the spiritual city of AGAM DES {on the 9th
                    Plane!}.
                    > > He knew the principles of ECKANKAR and tried to apply them...
                    > > When a person who has a good ear for music AND who KNOWS
                    > > the works of ECK listens closely to Wagner's Parsifal and
                    > > Tannhauser, he will hear clearly the sacred word HU in them. It
                    > > can also be heard in his other major works..." [pgs.153-154]
                    > >
                    > > So, how can Klemp say that most music is negative when
                    > > PT claims that Stravinsky is just breaking up the old thought
                    > > patterns of his listeners in order to get them to change to and
                    > > view other patterns. And, that Wagner's music contains the HU!
                    > > Why is Klemp so Negative... other than being a KAL Agent?!
                    > >
                    > > And, isn't it interesting that Wagner (way back then) traveled
                    > > to the 9th PLANE City of Agam Des to study under ECK Master
                    > > Yaubl Sacabi and placed HU in his music! Amazing!
                    > >
                    > > I wonder if Wagner saw any UFO's while at AGAM DES?!
                    > > WHY UFO's AT THE 9th PLANE CITY OF AGAM DES YOU SAY!
                    > > Because Twitchell states in these same COMPILED WRITINGS:
                    > >
                    > > "Many of THOSE {aliens} in the FLYING SAUCERS and those
                    > > who are able to project themselves directly to this earth
                    > > planet COME FIRST TO AGAM DES in order to ACQUAINT
                    > > THEMSELVES with the standard COARSER VIBRATIONS,
                    > > LIKE THOSE WHICH EXIST IN THIS PLANET."
                    > >
                    > > On page 110 Twitchell states: "The logical explanation for
                    > > UFOs is that they are NOT VISITORS FROM OUTER SPACE,
                    > > secret developments by any government, NOR the result
                    > > of mass hysteria. THEY ARE perfectly natural ASTRAL
                    > > PROJECTIONS of the PSYCHIC WORLD... The UFO experience
                    > > is generally a SUBJECTIVE ONE, something like RELIGIOUS
                    > > or EMOTIONAL OCCURRENCES." Astral/Psychic like with the
                    > > Eckankar Religious Experience too!
                    > >
                    > > Isn't it, also, interesting how Klemp uses much of Twitchell's
                    > > old material for his talks and yet HK has stopped printing
                    > > Paul's books and other writings! Don't PT's books contain
                    > > ECK History that should be available for all ECKists to read?
                    > > What does Klemp Fear... the Truth?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    >
                    > *****************************************************************
                    >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi All,
                    > > >
                    > > > Peter Anton's notes on Klemp's 2005 EWWS talk on the subject of
                    > > > music is interesting because it is so narrow mined!
                    > > >
                    > > > Twitchell long ago (1966) in "The Way Of Eckankar Series" on
                    pages
                    > > > 113, 114, and 121 discussed his preference for classical music.
                    He
                    > > > mentions Beethoven, Stravinsky's "The Firebird," and Wagner's
                    > > > operas.
                    > > >
                    > > > Klemp is quoted by Peter for having, "got rid of all negative
                    songs
                    > > > EVEN if there was only ONE on a CD." [My Caps] This seems like
                    over-
                    > > > kill or throwing the baby out with the bath water doesn't it!
                    Why
                    > > > not just change tracks! DUH! Klemp's stupid remarks get worse!
                    > > >
                    > > > It seems that Klemp, "had a lot of Country Western 'tear
                    jerker'
                    > > > songs which he gave them away because someone could benefit
                    from
                    > > > them." So Klemp admits to passing "negative songs" on to
                    someone
                    > > > else! Is this the KAL or the Mahanta doing this or are they one
                    and
                    > > > the same? The same it would seem! Really though... why would
                    the
                    > > > Mahanta give negative songs to someone?!
                    > > >
                    > > > Peter states that Klemp has finally "started listening to
                    classical
                    > > > music." I find this ironic because Klemp (the Mahanta) "has
                    been
                    > > > listening to negative tear jerker Country Western music" for
                    how
                    > > > many years now? It seems this LEM/Mahanta and "special
                    incarnation
                    > > > of the SUGMAD" (Eckankar Lexicon) is not living up to his PR,
                    and
                    > > > talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk!
                    > > >
                    > > > Klemp states that the current Mahanta consciousness is more
                    > > > advanced than Twitchell's was, but Twitchell listened to
                    classical
                    > > > music in 1966! Why has Klemp been such a slacker for all these
                    years?
                    > > >
                    > > > However, is all Classical music positive? And, is all Country
                    > > > Western music negative? For instance, Beethoven's Ninth,
                    Mozart's
                    > > > Requiem, and Stravinsky's Death of Petrouchka (IMO) are not all
                    that
                    > > > positive. And are some of Wagner's operas positive and are some
                    > > > negative? Wagner was a very dramatic conductor and his works as
                    a
                    > > > composer were dramatic (emotional) as well. Would you throw out
                    a
                    > > > whole CD because there was one opera that you didn't like? See
                    how
                    > > > stupid of a statement that was by Klemp! Yet, Eckists will
                    never see
                    > > > this because they don't truly listen or question anything.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    ******************************************************************
                    > > >
                    > > > Anyway, I'll end with the lyrics to a song performed by Johnny
                    Cash.
                    > > >
                    > > > Highwayman
                    > > >
                    > > > I was a highwayman. Along the coach roads I did ride
                    > > > With sword and pistol by my side
                    > > > Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
                    > > > Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade
                    > > > The bastards hung me in the spring of twenty-five
                    > > > But I am still alive.
                    > > >
                    > > > I was a sailor. I was born on the tide
                    > > > And with the seas I did abide.
                    > > > I sailed a schooner round the Horn to Mexico
                    > > > I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow
                    > > > And when the yards broke off they said I got killed
                    > > > But I am living still.
                    > > >
                    > > > I was a dam builder across the river deep and wide
                    > > > Where steel and water did collide
                    > > > A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
                    > > > I slipped and fell into wet concrete below
                    > > > They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
                    > > > But I am still around...I'll always be around..and around and
                    > > > around and around and around
                    > > >
                    > > > I fly a starship across the Universe divide
                    > > > And when I reach the other side
                    > > > I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
                    > > > Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
                    > > > Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
                    > > > But I will remain
                    > > > And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and
                    again..
                    > > >
                    *****************************************************************
                    > > >
                    > > > Maybe Klemp threw out one too many Country Western CDs before
                    > > > listening again to this one... or would it have mattered to
                    him?
                    > > > Probably not... he once admitted that he never was much for
                    > > > listening.
                    > > >
                    > > > Prometheus
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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