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Re: The H.I. Letter 06/2007 [Front Page Article]

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  • mishmisha9
    The story about the street children being saved by the eckist participating in the charity program is rather telling. Of course, eckists are always looking
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 11, 2007
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      The story about the street children being "saved" by the eckist
      participating in the charity program is rather telling. Of course,
      eckists are always looking for the opportunities to recruit--rather
      sad as what they do on a regular basis appears to always have this
      ulterior motive behind it which is to hook more people into the cult.
      This is what all three of the stories Klemp tells here are about.

      However, in the last story regarding the young street kid, Klemp
      shows contempt and speaks negatively about the police and
      corrections officers--people in authority. I thought the police
      were suppose to be the good guys, so why is Klemp conveying
      this bad guy message?

      I wonder if Klemp, who appears to hold grudges forever, is still
      ticked off about his notorious arrest at the airport where he
      stripped in front of fellow passengers--years ago? When one reads
      about this episode in his life and his time at the insane asylum, one
      can grasp that Klemp felt he had outwitted the system. I don't
      remember that he complained about the way the police officers
      handled him, but maybe he did have some issues with them, but
      kept it to himself? It would be interesting to re-read that story in
      his autobiography.

      Of course, another reason for criticizing those in control such as
      police officers and others in authority (power) is that Klemp wants
      to enforce the idea of who has the highest authority in his opinion.
      Klemp states that "the Mahanta is the highest state of consciousness
      known to the chronicles of mankind" (excerpt from "Those Wonderful
      ECK Masters") . . . and thus, making others look bad reinforces that he
      is the ultimate authority. This is all narcissistic behavior, don't you
      think? Destroy those who might threaten the narcissist's position of
      power while making himself look good!

      Klemp's "bashing" the police officers in this story is really just more of
      his immature and narcissistic behavior which actually reveals how such a
      fake like Klemp controls and maintains the reins of power in his cult! It's
      all nonsense, but people continue to fall for such stories, don't they? : )

      Mish


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
      <eckchains@...> wrote:
      >
      > Let's see.... Chinese woman meets Chinese man, dream about church on
      > fire convinces eckist that they must infiltrate churches and convert
      > them to ECKANKRAP (another stupid religion), and street children are
      > helped by a practical charity program but also brain washed into
      > believing in ECKANKRAP DOGMA. Wow how impressive! : D And this proves
      > what? That ECKANKARP IS NOTHING BUT PURE DELUSION. Just a smelly old
      > dead ECKFISH. LOL
      >
      > Nonekster ; )
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article)
      > > by Harold Klemp
      > >
      > > "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
      > >
      > > The Mahanta reaches out for seekers in surprising ways.
      > > A case in point is the story told by a Higher Initiate,
      > > whom we will call Mary, who is in Australia.
      > >
      > > Mary has a friend, June (a pseudonym), who is an ECK initiate.
      > > June had been an initiate quite a few years, until about ten
      > > years ago, when she decided to step back from the outer works
      > > of ECK. She did so because she felt unworthy and unable to
      > > reach what she felt were the requirements needed as an initiate
      > > in ECK. Yet she kept up with the Spiritual Exercises of ECK
      > > and inner contact with the Master.
      > >
      > > During this ten-year sabbatical from the outer ECK works,
      > > June decided to learn Mandarin Chinese. She is Chinese.
      > >
      > > Fast-forward now to several years ago, when she came back
      > > to the outer ECK works and resumed the ECK Satsang classes.
      > > One day Mary called her. Would June like to give a short talk
      > > at the ECK Worship Service on how it was when she left the
      > > outer study and how it is now? June readily agreed.
      > >
      > > Later, when the service was over and most people were gone
      > > from the ECK center, a car pulled into a parking spot right
      > > out front. An Asian man climbed out and then stood looking
      > > in at the ECK-center door.
      > >
      > > 'Would you like to come in and look around?' Mary asked.
      > >
      > > Mary had a feeling that he had a hard time understanding
      > > English, so she called June over. June addressed him in
      > > Mandarin. Soon they were engaged in a lively conversation.
      > >
      > > Later, June told Mary and other ECK initiates his story.
      > >
      > > The Man had never heard of ECKANKAR before. He was
      > > on a short vacation from Taiwan and had been looking for
      > > the marketplace. He had only stopped in front of the ECK
      > > center because he was looking for a parking spot. The only
      > > open one was right at the center's front door.
      > >
      > > 'This is a miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!' For the ECK
      > > and the Mahanta were exactly what he was looking for.
      > >
      > > That is an excellent example of how the Mahanta's long arm
      > > reaches out to a true seeker. But then, likely as not, he calls
      > > on you to do your part. The path of ECK is one of giving and
      > > receiving, for that is the way of sure spiritual unfoldment.
      > > June undoubtedly learned this firsthand.
      > >
      > > A few people among a thousand are ready for the ECK
      > > teachings of spiritual freedom. I have mentioned this in my
      > > talks and writings from time to time.
      > >
      > > Jim, who lives in the northwestern part of the U.S., did the
      > > math for his city of around a million people. He reasoned
      > > that since the Master had said 'a few,' he meant at least
      > > three, or he would have said 'a couple of.'
      > >
      > > 'A few people' in this case meant three thousand Souls
      > > ready to learn about the Mahanta and ECK teachings.
      > > So Jim and other chelas made plans to find them.
      > >
      > > In connection with these plans, Jim had a dream in which
      > > he was in the back of a church hall. Smoke began pouring
      > > into the room. Quickly, he opened the back door and found
      > > it led outside through a long hallway. Jim faced a choice:
      > > to save himself or go back into the room and look for trapped
      > > people.
      > >
      > > He chose the latter. A door in front of him did not feel hot,
      > > so he opened it and began to coax people to leave by the
      > > back door. Many did.
      > >
      > > What did Jim see as the meaning of his dream?
      > >
      > > I wonder if this is a metaphor for Dream 3000 (the name of
      > > the Vahana plans that he and others had drafted), he mused.
      > > Perhaps, he thought, I will rescue those who find the formal
      > > religions suffocating.
      > >
      > > The long arm of the Mahanta.
      > >
      > > The Mahanta works in many and diverse ways to reach out
      > > to people of all ages, including the youth.
      > >
      > > Jack is an ECK initiate in South Africa. At the time he reported
      > > the following incident, he was working as a journalist for an
      > > Investigative magazine.
      > >
      > > He also ran a small project since 1996 that has taken a number
      > > of street children off the streets and put them into what he called
      > > 'long-term upliftment.' Some six years later, one of his youths
      > > landed in prison. The police had trumped-up evidence against
      > > him for possessing tools used for housebreaking—four spark
      > > plug pieces.
      > >
      > > It is necessary to mention here that all the youths in Jack's
      > > rescue-and-upliftment program knew about the Mahanta and
      > > the power of HU.
      > >
      > > The accused youth sang HU in prison when someone wanted
      > > to fight him, when the prison guards threatened to beat him,
      > > and when he was lonely.
      > >
      > > Finally, after numerous delays, his trial took place. The
      > > Magistrate threw out the trumped-up police evidence and
      > > set him free.
      > >
      > > That is another example of the Mahanta's long arm. Noteworthy
      > > is the fact that this ECK youth was a light of hope and guidance
      > > for other prison youths, speaking to them of higher principles in
      > > ways they could understand.
      > >
      > > You, like him, can be an instrument for the Mahanta too.
      > >
      > > Harold"
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, Apparently Klemp can t relate any real Truth to his H.I.s, thus, he recycles these bias stories (testimonials) sent to the ESC by other Eckists, and
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 11, 2007
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        Hello All,
        Apparently Klemp can't relate any real Truth to his H.I.s,
        thus, he recycles these bias stories (testimonials) sent
        to the ESC by other Eckists, and then reshapes them
        to "prove" that the Mahanta's powers and reach are that
        equal to God... except he sees "God" as the Kal (Satan).
        Ironic isn't it!

        I have more comments to share below.
        ***
        [HK's Embellished Story #3, June 2007, The H.I. Letter,
        Front Page Article]

        HK: "The long arm of the Mahanta.

        The Mahanta works in many and diverse ways to reach out
        to people of all ages, including the youth."

        [ME] Except, one has to be an Eckist in HK's stories. However,
        it is never explained how people in other religions, who worship
        a 2nd or 4th Plane "God" (or former Eckists), have even more
        and greater stories, involving Spirit, to share. Why is that?

        HK: "Jack is an ECK initiate in SOUTH AFRICA. At the time he
        reported the following incident, he was working as a journalist
        for an Investigative magazine.

        He also ran a small project since 1996 that has taken a number
        of street children off the streets and put them into what he called
        'long-term upliftment.' Some SIX YEARS LATER, ONE of his youths
        landed in prison. The police had trumped-up evidence against
        him for possessing tools used for housebreaking—four spark
        plug pieces."

        [ME] Klemp is making this street kid to look like a VICTIM! Also,
        it looks like "Jack" stole the name of "Long-Term Upliftment"
        from other, more high profile, projects. Just Google it and see
        for yourself. And, the "project" was started in 1996 and "six years
        later" (2002) Jack just had "one" street kid get in trouble with the law.
        Why is this so shocking? And why is Klemp telling a story that happened
        Five Years Ago?! This is the June 2007 H.I. Letter and HK's telling
        a story that happened in 2002! And, Why did this street kid have
        these pieces of a spark plug that could be used to pick a lock? One
        can, also, use a Coat Hanger to get into a car! Klemp is an idiot!

        HK: "It is NECESSARY to mention here that all the youths in Jack's
        rescue-and-upliftment program knew about the Mahanta and
        the power of HU."

        [ME] I'm sure that these "youths" had heard about Christianity and
        Islam too! Maybe this knowledge kept them out of trouble more
        than their "knowing" of Eckankar did!

        HK: "The accused youth sang HU in prison when someone wanted
        to fight him, when the prison guards threatened to beat him,
        and when he was lonely."

        [ME] Chanting and meditation has been proven to be a stress relief,
        therefore, this can be of benefit to anyone... including non-Eckists.

        HK: "Finally, after numerous delays, his trial took place. The
        Magistrate threw out the trumped-up police evidence and
        set him free."

        [ME] It might, also, be that the prosecuter couldn't really prove
        that these spark plug pieces could be used as burgler tools, and
        it could be that "Jack" spoke as a character witness for the kid,
        as well, and this is why the Magistrate dismissed the charges.

        HK: "That is another example of THE Mahanta's LONG ARM.
        NOTEWORTHY is the FACT that this ECK youth was a light of hope
        and guidance for other prison youths, speaking to them of higher
        principles in ways they could understand. You, like him, can be an
        instrument for the Mahanta too."

        [ME] Interesting! Klemp is now referring to this one street kid
        as an "ECK youth!" What makes him an ECK youth other than
        chanting HU while in jail? Does he have an Eckankar membership
        card? I doubt it! How did this kid speak to other prison youth?
        What did he say about these "higher principles?" It seems, from
        the story, that he was trying to keep a low profile (and chanting
        HU) in order not to be beat by other kids or guards! Now, Klemp
        is making the street kid into a martyr, an ECK youth, and a "light
        of hope and guidance for other prison youths."

        What I don't see is any correlation that "the Mahanta's long arm"
        and "You, like him, can be an instrument for the Mahanta too."
        Therefore, why does one need the Mahanta when you can be your
        own Mahanta. Let's face it... Klemp (as Mahanta) doesn't have the
        ability to help anyone! Universally, SPIRIT helps every Soul in various
        ways. Religious leaders (like Klemp, the Mahanta) just take credit
        for this because many people (chelas) like to adore others (H.I.s)
        by putting them upon pedestals as idols, gods, Masters. This way
        Eckists don't have to think for themselves... it's the Easy Way of
        Eckankar!

        Prometheus


        mish wrote:


        > The story about the street children being "saved" by the eckist
        > participating in the charity program is rather telling. Of course,
        > eckists are always looking for the opportunities to recruit--rather
        > sad as what they do on a regular basis appears to always have this
        > ulterior motive behind it which is to hook more people into the cult.
        > This is what all three of the stories Klemp tells here are about.

        > However, in the last story regarding the young street kid, Klemp
        > shows contempt and speaks negatively about the police and
        > corrections officers--people in authority. I thought the police
        > were suppose to be the good guys, so why is Klemp conveying
        > this bad guy message?

        > I wonder if Klemp, who appears to hold grudges forever, is still
        > ticked off about his notorious arrest at the airport where he
        > stripped in front of fellow passengers--years ago? When one reads
        > about this episode in his life and his time at the insane asylum, one
        > can grasp that Klemp felt he had outwitted the system. I don't
        > remember that he complained about the way the police officers
        > handled him, but maybe he did have some issues with them, but
        > kept it to himself? It would be interesting to re-read that story in
        > his autobiography.

        > Of course, another reason for criticizing those in control such as
        > police officers and others in authority (power) is that Klemp wants
        > to enforce the idea of who has the highest authority in his opinion.
        > Klemp states that "the Mahanta is the highest state of consciousness
        > known to the chronicles of mankind" (excerpt from "Those Wonderful
        > ECK Masters") . . . and thus, making others look bad reinforces that he
        > is the ultimate authority. This is all narcissistic behavior, don't you
        > think? Destroy those who might threaten the narcissist's position of
        > power while making himself look good!
        >
        > Klemp's "bashing" the police officers in this story is really just more of
        > his immature and narcissistic behavior which actually reveals how such a
        > fake like Klemp controls and maintains the reins of power in his cult! It's
        > all nonsense, but people continue to fall for such stories, don't they? : )

        > Mish


        Non ekster wrote:
        > >
        Let's see.... Chinese woman meets Chinese man, dream about church on
        fire convinces eckist that they must infiltrate churches and convert
        them to ECKANKRAP (another stupid religion), and street children are
        helped by a practical charity program but also brain washed into
        believing in ECKANKRAP DOGMA. Wow how impressive! : D And this proves
        what? That ECKANKARP IS NOTHING BUT PURE DELUSION. Just a smelly old
        dead ECKFISH. LOL
        > >
        Nonekster ; )
      • prometheus_973
        The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article) by Harold Klemp [Klemp s 2nd Load of Crap] HK: Dear Brothers of the Leaf... A few people among a thousand are
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 13, 2007
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          The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article) by Harold Klemp
          [Klemp's 2nd Load of Crap]

          HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf...

          A few people among a thousand are ready for the ECK
          teachings of spiritual freedom. I have mentioned this in
          my talks and writings from time to time."

          [ME] I would think, from looking at the number of chelas,
          that Klemp's accuracy is askewed here as well! The count
          is actually around One chela (sucker) per One Hundred
          Thousand people! Eckankar is a scam, but not that good
          of one!

          HK: "Jim, who lives in the northwestern part of the U.S.,
          did the math for his city of around a million people. He
          reasoned that since the Master had said 'a few,' he meant
          at least three, or he would have said 'a couple of.' 'A few
          people' in this case meant three thousand Souls ready to
          learn about the Mahanta and ECK teachings. So Jim and
          other chelas made plans to find them."

          [ME] LOL! There aren't Three Thousand ECKists in
          Minnesota and most of them moved there! If Klemp
          really wanted people to "learn" about Eckankar then why
          hasn't he placed National Ads like the Mormons do?
          I think HK just wants his volunteer Vahantas, etc. to keep
          busy (with busy work) and to stay distracted (seeking that
          elusive carrot of initiation) with those required trainings,
          (and required brown nosing) while donating their own time
          and money to qualify for those coveted fake initiations and
          "important" positions within the RESA hierarchies. Klemp
          could save a lot of time, personal resources, and leg work
          for his Chelas in the field by spending more of Eckankar's
          money on National Ads rather than on an Eckankar
          (Believe It or Not!) Museum!

          HK: "In connection with these plans, Jim had a dream in which
          he was in the back of a church hall. Smoke began pouring
          into the room. Quickly, he opened the back door and found
          it led outside through a long hallway. Jim faced a choice:
          to save himself or go back into the room and look for trapped
          people."

          [ME] Actually, wouldn't most of us go back and help people
          escape from a burning building? Sure! Besides, this dream
          is so typical of what others in different religions, also, dream!
          Eckankar is a church too isn't it? Klemp has stated that it is!
          Maybe the true "connection" with this dream and Jim's Vahanta
          plans is that this dream is a personal message showing him that
          he needs to "escape" from the Eckankar Church/teachings, and
          to take others with him! Also, when one is focused on a specific
          predetermined outcome it is common to have ones mind
          validate this through images and dreams.

          HK: "He chose the latter. A door in front of him did not feel
          hot, so he opened it and began to coax people to leave by the
          back door. Many did." What did Jim see as the meaning of his
          dream?"

          [ME] It's obvious what he would choose! And, Jim's been brain-
          washed to see only one explanation for his dream!

          HK: "I wonder if this is a metaphor for Dream 3000 (the name
          of the Vahana plans that he and others had drafted), he mused.
          Perhaps, he thought, I will rescue those who find the formal
          religions suffocating. The long arm of the Mahanta."

          [ME] Doesn't this whole story, now, seem that it's been
          manipulated! Klemp stated that he's mentioned, before,
          in both his writings and talks that "a few people among a
          thousand are ready for the ECK teachings." And, now, it's
          mentioned that there is a local Vahana project called Dream
          3000 that "Jim" is involved with and even helped to draft!
          So why, (in this 2nd embellished letter to H.I.s), does it state
          that Jim "did the math" and came up with 3 versus 3000!

          It's obvious that Klemp is trying to "inspire" Eck Leaders (H.I.s)
          to get those numbers up! However, some areas have already
          met the quota (3 per 1000) in letting people "know" about Eckankar.
          One can't force people to join! When is Klemp going to do his
          part and spend those Eckankar funds on National Publicity?
          Never! It's all about getting the local Eckists to spend their
          own money and time while jumping through those hoops. HK
          wants to prevent too many more H.I.s from topping out and
          receiving that 7th Initiation. Eckists should think about this and
          that endless cycle where bringing in more "paying" members
          (the only kind) is more important than than providing "New"
          insights for greater (higher) spiritual growth. Oops! don't forget
          that glass ceiling! Let's face it: Everything that Klemp has to offer
          has already been provided by Twitchell's plagiarisms and distortions
          of Truth. Klemp just recycles and spins the stories of others to
          make it seem like some sort of a "spiritual" message.

          Why do Eckists really think/feel/imagine that they need a
          middleman (Mahanta), or to be a follower of a religion after,
          especially, 30 years of membership?! Amazing! If one hasn't
          reached independency versus Co-dependency and Mastership
          with Spiritual Freedom after 30 years then it's time to leave!

          Prometheus
          p.s. I wonder if Eckists are trying to convert Muslims (helping them
          "learn" about Eckankar) like Eckists are with the Christians and Jews?
          Maybe Jim could "find them" in the Muslim communities?!
        • prometheus_973
          The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article) by Harold Klemp #1 HK: Dear Brothers of the Leaf, The Mahanta REACHES OUT FOR SEEKERS in surprising ways. A
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 14, 2007
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            The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article)
            by Harold Klemp

            #1

            HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

            The Mahanta REACHES OUT FOR SEEKERS in surprising
            ways. A CASE IN POINT is the Story Told by a Higher
            Initiate, whom WE WILL CALL MARY, who is in AUSTRALIA."

            [ME] Whom "We" will call Mary? Who's "we?" Why not say,
            Whom "I" will call Mary? Is this a Freudian slip showing
            that Klemp is, also, a Paranoid Schizophrenic and a
            narcissist?! I think so! Also, as you read this "story" look
            for and compare: Who did what; Why it was done; How
            many people did it affect; in What way?

            HK: "Mary has a friend, June (a pseudonym), who is an ECK
            initiate. June had been an initiate Quite A FEW YEARS, UNTIL
            ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO, when she decided to STEP BACK
            from the OUTER WORKS of ECK. She did so BECAUSE SHE FELT
            UNWORTHY and UNABLE to reach what she felt were THE
            REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an INITIATE in ECK. Yet she kept
            up with the Spiritual Exercises of ECK and inner contact with
            the Master."

            [ME] So, "June" (probably an H.I.) stepped back and took a
            rest about ten years ago (1997). It seems that June couldn't
            fulfill the Eck Leadership requirements for H.I.s which includes
            participating in and planning intros, taking a leadership role,
            having the required trainings, becoming a Cleric (first) and
            having to do the EWS, and being a spokesperson (locally) for
            Eckankar. Many people have the fear of public speaking. Many
            of these H.I.s, in the past, worked in the background until
            Klemp implemented the restrictions in order to "slow down"
            the Eck Initiations to prevent too many more reaching the
            limits of the 7th!

            HK: "During this ten-year sabbatical from the outer ECK works,
            June decided to learn Mandarin Chinese. She is Chinese."

            [ME] Okay, NOW Klemp is saying that "JUNE," also, took TEN
            YEARS OFF (ten-year sabbatical) starting about "ten years ago."
            The thing that smells, here, is that Eckists are only permitted
            to officially take a FIVE-YEAR REST PERIOD (sabbatical). Does
            this mean that German-American H.I.s can take a TEN YEAR
            SABBATICAL from the "outer ECK works" to learn GERMAN?
            It seems so! However, will they also lose initiations? I know
            that they lose the time-in-grade for that next promotion.
            Except, Eckists in countries outside of the U.S. do get promoted
            faster!

            HK: "Fast-forward now to several years ago, when she came
            back to the outer ECK works and resumed the ECK Satsang
            classes. One day Mary called her. Would June like to give a
            short talk at the ECK Worship Service on how it was when she
            left the outer study and how it is now? June readily agreed."

            [ME] Isn't Klemp's Time-Line kind of screwed up?! HK states
            that "June" stepped back from the outer Eck works 10 years ago,
            and took a 10 year rest (sabbatical). Now, Klemp wants us to
            "fast-forward" to "several years ago!" Maybe we should REWIND
            to "several years ago!" Except, this doesn't make sense either
            if about 10 years ago, 1997, she took a 10 year rest to 2007.
            So, how could "JUNE" come "back to the outer ECK works"
            several (4-5?) years ago in 2002?! Klemp doesn't even have
            the awareness to keep his "facts" accurate in his embellished
            stories! Also, what was it, originally, that made "June" feel
            "UNWORTHY and UNABLE to REACH what she felt were the
            REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an initiate in ECK?" Why did this
            change? Did she have more confidence or find some additional
            identity or self-knowledge through the process of learning a
            new language? Klemp seems to skip over these details, and
            lacks the insight to give clarity for this.

            HK: "Later, when the service was over and most people were
            gone from the ECK center, a car pulled into a parking spot right
            out front. An Asian man climbed out and then stood looking
            in at the ECK-center door." 'Would you like to come in and look
            around?' Mary asked. Mary had a feeling that he had a hard time
            understanding English, so she called June over. June addressed
            him in Mandarin. Soon they were engaged in a lively conversation."

            [ME] Interesting! Klemp states that (H.I.) "Mary Had a Feeling."
            I thought that "feelings" and "intuition," for Eckists, were of a
            negative and lower Astral experience or focus!

            HK: "Later, June told Mary and other ECK initiates his story.
            The Man had never heard of ECKANKAR before. He was
            on a short vacation from Taiwan and had been looking for
            the marketplace. He had only stopped in front of the ECK
            center because he was looking for a parking spot. The only
            open one was right at the center's front door.

            'This is a miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!' For the ECK
            and the Mahanta were exactly what he was looking for."

            [ME] If this common incident was a "miracle" for this guy
            and for these Eckists, as well as, for Klemp then this really
            limits what kind of "miracles" and changes in consciousness
            will take place in the future for any of these people! These
            things happen to EVERYONE and NOT just to ECKISTS!
            There are TV shows that show incidents "miracles" that are
            really astounding rather than these mundane little Eckie
            stories that can't even follow a time-line! It seems that Klemp
            is grabbing at straws (with these stories) to keep Eckankar afloat!

            HK: "That is an excellent example of how the Mahanta's long arm
            reaches out to a true seeker. But then, likely as not, he calls
            on you to do your part. The path of ECK is one of giving and
            receiving, for that is the way of sure spiritual unfoldment.
            June undoubtedly learned this firsthand."

            [ME] I'm curious about one thing here. What makes this business
            man from Taiwan, who is visiting Australia, a "TRUE SEEKER?"
            Did this guy join Eckankar? What did the Mahanta have to do
            with "June" taking 10 years off from the Outer Eck Works to learn
            Mandarin in order to have have a short conversation with this man?
            Maybe all ECKists need to take TEN YEARS OFF to prepare for
            "miracles" to happen to them! Is this Klemp's real (hidden)
            message to his H.I.s? LOL!

            The thing with ECKANKAR, and ALL religions, is there is always
            a religious leader (prophet-saviour-cleric, etc.) taking credit for
            healings, miracles, prophecies, etc. in advance, after-the-fact,
            and in one way or another! They all try to make their approach
            to be the best, fastest, highest, and the one-and-only valid
            teaching from God! They have all of the answers and all of
            the miracles while everyone else, the non-members, are lost
            and condemned to a Hell of some sort, unless, "seekers" join
            their specific group of believers. However, the mind's imagination
            will mock-up what it focuses upon and desires, sometimes/
            usually subtly, through various levels of conscious, subconscious,
            and unconsciousness workings of mental energy.

            The sad thing for ECKists is: That they can't see that Eckankar
            is similar to ALL other religions; They aren't aware of their
            roots (Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang); ECKists aren't able to
            see that Klemp has nothing of spiritual substance to offer them!
            This H.I. LETTER is just a pep talk to inspire H.I.s to get out there
            and spend their time and money recruiting more members and
            along the way they might experience the same "miracles" that
            other people experience throughout life! Another thing is...
            It seems that the More Clueless ECKists and the Less Spiritually
            Free ECKists are the ones that are the Long-Time (30 year plus)
            "Higher" ones when others have achieved Self-Mastery and
            Spiritual Freedom in fewer years and in NO YEARS as an ECKist!

            Prometheus
          • mishmisha9
            The Secret Responsibilities of H.I.s--Be a Vahana! LOL! Obviously, Klemp is giving tips on how H.I.s can more successfully achieve their vahana duties: learn
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 15, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              The Secret Responsibilities of H.I.s--Be a Vahana! LOL!

              Obviously, Klemp is giving tips on how H.I.s can more
              successfully achieve their vahana duties: learn how to
              communicate with those people who speak a different language;
              mingle with people of other religions and find a path to lead
              them out the backdoor into the eck; and finally, look for street
              kids as they are very vulnerable and perhaps easily manipulated.

              You know I'd be interested in knowing how many children of
              eckists actually remain eckists as adults? It doesn't seem that
              the eck youth groups are as large as the adults--it would seem
              there would be more? Of course, Harold's daughter ditched
              eckankar--that is rather amazing in itself!!

              Well, these three embellished stories do show those lower
              initiates what they can look forward to when they finally achieve
              H.I. status--it's all about recruitment! It's nothing about
              being more spiritually enlightened--it's all about H.I.s being
              elevated up to BIG recruiter status, nothing more! ! LOL!

              On another note, though, it is rather sad when one finally
              realizes how duped one has been, and then add the guilt trip of
              having duped others by dutifully trying to recruit others into
              the org! It does bother me that I handed out those little eck
              books, Ancient Wisdom for Today, to so many people. I don't
              mind that I was foolish--I'm only sorry I tried to mislead others.
              Saying that eckankar is no worse than any other religion, or
              that one can take away something of value from the teachings,
              just doesn't excuse my behavior or responsibility in fooling
              others through dumb vahana work. To me, putting value on
              the eck experience this way is just an attempt at protecting ego.
              Personally, I feel better for recognizing the guilt I have for
              participating in the vahana activities.

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article)
              > by Harold Klemp
              >
              > #1
              >
              > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
              >
              > The Mahanta REACHES OUT FOR SEEKERS in surprising
              > ways. A CASE IN POINT is the Story Told by a Higher
              > Initiate, whom WE WILL CALL MARY, who is in AUSTRALIA."
              >
              > [ME] Whom "We" will call Mary? Who's "we?" Why not say,
              > Whom "I" will call Mary? Is this a Freudian slip showing
              > that Klemp is, also, a Paranoid Schizophrenic and a
              > narcissist?! I think so! Also, as you read this "story" look
              > for and compare: Who did what; Why it was done; How
              > many people did it affect; in What way?
              >
              > HK: "Mary has a friend, June (a pseudonym), who is an ECK
              > initiate. June had been an initiate Quite A FEW YEARS, UNTIL
              > ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO, when she decided to STEP BACK
              > from the OUTER WORKS of ECK. She did so BECAUSE SHE FELT
              > UNWORTHY and UNABLE to reach what she felt were THE
              > REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an INITIATE in ECK. Yet she kept
              > up with the Spiritual Exercises of ECK and inner contact with
              > the Master."
              >
              > [ME] So, "June" (probably an H.I.) stepped back and took a
              > rest about ten years ago (1997). It seems that June couldn't
              > fulfill the Eck Leadership requirements for H.I.s which includes
              > participating in and planning intros, taking a leadership role,
              > having the required trainings, becoming a Cleric (first) and
              > having to do the EWS, and being a spokesperson (locally) for
              > Eckankar. Many people have the fear of public speaking. Many
              > of these H.I.s, in the past, worked in the background until
              > Klemp implemented the restrictions in order to "slow down"
              > the Eck Initiations to prevent too many more reaching the
              > limits of the 7th!
              >
              > HK: "During this ten-year sabbatical from the outer ECK works,
              > June decided to learn Mandarin Chinese. She is Chinese."
              >
              > [ME] Okay, NOW Klemp is saying that "JUNE," also, took TEN
              > YEARS OFF (ten-year sabbatical) starting about "ten years ago."
              > The thing that smells, here, is that Eckists are only permitted
              > to officially take a FIVE-YEAR REST PERIOD (sabbatical). Does
              > this mean that German-American H.I.s can take a TEN YEAR
              > SABBATICAL from the "outer ECK works" to learn GERMAN?
              > It seems so! However, will they also lose initiations? I know
              > that they lose the time-in-grade for that next promotion.
              > Except, Eckists in countries outside of the U.S. do get promoted
              > faster!
              >
              > HK: "Fast-forward now to several years ago, when she came
              > back to the outer ECK works and resumed the ECK Satsang
              > classes. One day Mary called her. Would June like to give a
              > short talk at the ECK Worship Service on how it was when she
              > left the outer study and how it is now? June readily agreed."
              >
              > [ME] Isn't Klemp's Time-Line kind of screwed up?! HK states
              > that "June" stepped back from the outer Eck works 10 years ago,
              > and took a 10 year rest (sabbatical). Now, Klemp wants us to
              > "fast-forward" to "several years ago!" Maybe we should REWIND
              > to "several years ago!" Except, this doesn't make sense either
              > if about 10 years ago, 1997, she took a 10 year rest to 2007.
              > So, how could "JUNE" come "back to the outer ECK works"
              > several (4-5?) years ago in 2002?! Klemp doesn't even have
              > the awareness to keep his "facts" accurate in his embellished
              > stories! Also, what was it, originally, that made "June" feel
              > "UNWORTHY and UNABLE to REACH what she felt were the
              > REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an initiate in ECK?" Why did this
              > change? Did she have more confidence or find some additional
              > identity or self-knowledge through the process of learning a
              > new language? Klemp seems to skip over these details, and
              > lacks the insight to give clarity for this.
              >
              > HK: "Later, when the service was over and most people were
              > gone from the ECK center, a car pulled into a parking spot right
              > out front. An Asian man climbed out and then stood looking
              > in at the ECK-center door." 'Would you like to come in and look
              > around?' Mary asked. Mary had a feeling that he had a hard time
              > understanding English, so she called June over. June addressed
              > him in Mandarin. Soon they were engaged in a lively conversation."
              >
              > [ME] Interesting! Klemp states that (H.I.) "Mary Had a Feeling."
              > I thought that "feelings" and "intuition," for Eckists, were of a
              > negative and lower Astral experience or focus!
              >
              > HK: "Later, June told Mary and other ECK initiates his story.
              > The Man had never heard of ECKANKAR before. He was
              > on a short vacation from Taiwan and had been looking for
              > the marketplace. He had only stopped in front of the ECK
              > center because he was looking for a parking spot. The only
              > open one was right at the center's front door.
              >
              > 'This is a miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!' For the ECK
              > and the Mahanta were exactly what he was looking for."
              >
              > [ME] If this common incident was a "miracle" for this guy
              > and for these Eckists, as well as, for Klemp then this really
              > limits what kind of "miracles" and changes in consciousness
              > will take place in the future for any of these people! These
              > things happen to EVERYONE and NOT just to ECKISTS!
              > There are TV shows that show incidents "miracles" that are
              > really astounding rather than these mundane little Eckie
              > stories that can't even follow a time-line! It seems that Klemp
              > is grabbing at straws (with these stories) to keep Eckankar afloat!
              >
              > HK: "That is an excellent example of how the Mahanta's long arm
              > reaches out to a true seeker. But then, likely as not, he calls
              > on you to do your part. The path of ECK is one of giving and
              > receiving, for that is the way of sure spiritual unfoldment.
              > June undoubtedly learned this firsthand."
              >
              > [ME] I'm curious about one thing here. What makes this business
              > man from Taiwan, who is visiting Australia, a "TRUE SEEKER?"
              > Did this guy join Eckankar? What did the Mahanta have to do
              > with "June" taking 10 years off from the Outer Eck Works to learn
              > Mandarin in order to have have a short conversation with this man?
              > Maybe all ECKists need to take TEN YEARS OFF to prepare for
              > "miracles" to happen to them! Is this Klemp's real (hidden)
              > message to his H.I.s? LOL!
              >
              > The thing with ECKANKAR, and ALL religions, is there is always
              > a religious leader (prophet-saviour-cleric, etc.) taking credit for
              > healings, miracles, prophecies, etc. in advance, after-the-fact,
              > and in one way or another! They all try to make their approach
              > to be the best, fastest, highest, and the one-and-only valid
              > teaching from God! They have all of the answers and all of
              > the miracles while everyone else, the non-members, are lost
              > and condemned to a Hell of some sort, unless, "seekers" join
              > their specific group of believers. However, the mind's imagination
              > will mock-up what it focuses upon and desires, sometimes/
              > usually subtly, through various levels of conscious, subconscious,
              > and unconsciousness workings of mental energy.
              >
              > The sad thing for ECKists is: That they can't see that Eckankar
              > is similar to ALL other religions; They aren't aware of their
              > roots (Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang); ECKists aren't able to
              > see that Klemp has nothing of spiritual substance to offer them!
              > This H.I. LETTER is just a pep talk to inspire H.I.s to get out there
              > and spend their time and money recruiting more members and
              > along the way they might experience the same "miracles" that
              > other people experience throughout life! Another thing is...
              > It seems that the More Clueless ECKists and the Less Spiritually
              > Free ECKists are the ones that are the Long-Time (30 year plus)
              > "Higher" ones when others have achieved Self-Mastery and
              > Spiritual Freedom in fewer years and in NO YEARS as an ECKist!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              HK: Later, WHEN the SERVICE was OVER and MOST PEOPLE WERE GONE from the ECK CENTER, a car pulled into a PARKING SPOT right out front... He HAD ONLY STOPPED in
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 15, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                HK: "Later, WHEN the SERVICE was OVER and MOST PEOPLE
                WERE GONE from the ECK CENTER, a car pulled into a PARKING
                SPOT right out front... He HAD ONLY STOPPED in front of the
                ECK center because he was looking for a PARKING SPOT. The
                only open one was right at the center's front door... 'This is a
                miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!'... That is an excellent
                example of how the Mahanta's LONG ARM reaches out to a
                TRUE [Parking Spot] SEEKER. But then, likely as not, he calls
                on you to do your part [Move Your Car]. The path of ECK is
                one of GIVING [Until It Hurts] and RECEIVING [Imagined Results
                and Fake Initiations], for that is the way of SURE spiritual
                unfoldment" [As Long As You're Membership Is Current $$$].

                On another note-
                Hi Mish, I too still have some guilt for having brought people
                into Eckankar. I know of a few current H.I.s that I personally
                influenced to join. This is just one of the many reasons why this
                ESA site still exists... it's sort of an act of atonement for all of
                those years that my focus was so narrowed and closed minded.
                I had even become a religious fanatic as I was selling Eckankar.
                Away from the Eckankar Center or ECK Events I was a much
                happier person, but at Eckankar functions I changed and took
                things much too seriously. Those Eck Guidelines and knowing
                I was being watched and evaluated by my peers (and squealed
                upon to the RESA) led to a lot of stress because I wanted (needed)
                that higher position and next initiation. Also, with any religion
                it seems that 'misery loves company' and the more people
                [especially intelligent people] the religionists can bring into their
                fold the more proof they have, for others, that their religion has
                the highest "Truth." This is, also, why Eckankar will promote, (faster),
                Eckists that are professionals (doctors, lawyers, architects) or those
                who have a somewhat higher profile within the local community (it
                also helps to have experience in public speeking). And, foreign
                Eckists get promoted much faster than do U.S. Eckists! Therefore,
                success (initiation & position) in Eckankar is definitely tied into the
                Vahana (missionary) effort to bring in paying members. When one
                looks at Eckankar with some scrutiny via critical thinking one can
                see that Eckankar makes a lot of promises (like all religions do)
                and then lets it's chelas fill-in the blanks with their imaginations,
                except, one has to follow the rules & dogma (like with other religions)
                and become conformists! It's amazing that Eckists think that they
                are non-conformists when they have just become conformists of
                a different sort. How can Eckists really claim that Eckankar is an
                Individual "Path" to God when it is neither Individual or a path to
                "God!" Eckankar is just more Religious Delusion and Myth like the
                Older Religions that Eckists gave up!

                Prometheus



                mish wrote:
                >
                >
                > The Secret Responsibilities of H.I.s--Be a Vahana! LOL!
                >
                > Obviously, Klemp is giving tips on how H.I.s can more
                > successfully achieve their vahana duties: learn how to
                > communicate with those people who speak a different language;
                > mingle with people of other religions and find a path to lead
                > them out the backdoor into the eck; and finally, look for street
                > kids as they are very vulnerable and perhaps easily manipulated.
                >
                > You know I'd be interested in knowing how many children of
                > eckists actually remain eckists as adults? It doesn't seem that
                > the eck youth groups are as large as the adults--it would seem
                > there would be more? Of course, Harold's daughter ditched
                > eckankar--that is rather amazing in itself!!
                >
                > Well, these three embellished stories do show those lower
                > initiates what they can look forward to when they finally achieve
                > H.I. status--it's all about recruitment! It's nothing about
                > being more spiritually enlightened--it's all about H.I.s being
                > elevated up to BIG recruiter status, nothing more! ! LOL!
                >
                > On another note, though, it is rather sad when one finally
                > realizes how duped one has been, and then add the guilt trip of
                > having duped others by dutifully trying to recruit others into
                > the org! It does bother me that I handed out those little eck
                > books, Ancient Wisdom for Today, to so many people. I don't
                > mind that I was foolish--I'm only sorry I tried to mislead others.
                > Saying that eckankar is no worse than any other religion, or
                > that one can take away something of value from the teachings,
                > just doesn't excuse my behavior or responsibility in fooling
                > others through dumb vahana work. To me, putting value on
                > the eck experience this way is just an attempt at protecting ego.
                > Personally, I feel better for recognizing the guilt I have for
                > participating in the vahana activities.
                >
                > Mish
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article)
                > > by Harold Klemp
                > >
                > > #1
                > >
                > > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                > >
                > > The Mahanta REACHES OUT FOR SEEKERS in surprising
                > > ways. A CASE IN POINT is the Story Told by a Higher
                > > Initiate, whom WE WILL CALL MARY, who is in AUSTRALIA."
                > >
                > > [ME] Whom "We" will call Mary? Who's "we?" Why not say,
                > > Whom "I" will call Mary? Is this a Freudian slip showing
                > > that Klemp is, also, a Paranoid Schizophrenic and a
                > > narcissist?! I think so! Also, as you read this "story" look
                > > for and compare: Who did what; Why it was done; How
                > > many people did it affect; in What way?
                > >
                > > HK: "Mary has a friend, June (a pseudonym), who is an ECK
                > > initiate. June had been an initiate Quite A FEW YEARS, UNTIL
                > > ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO, when she decided to STEP BACK
                > > from the OUTER WORKS of ECK. She did so BECAUSE SHE FELT
                > > UNWORTHY and UNABLE to reach what she felt were THE
                > > REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an INITIATE in ECK. Yet she kept
                > > up with the Spiritual Exercises of ECK and inner contact with
                > > the Master."
                > >
                > > [ME] So, "June" (probably an H.I.) stepped back and took a
                > > rest about ten years ago (1997). It seems that June couldn't
                > > fulfill the Eck Leadership requirements for H.I.s which includes
                > > participating in and planning intros, taking a leadership role,
                > > having the required trainings, becoming a Cleric (first) and
                > > having to do the EWS, and being a spokesperson (locally) for
                > > Eckankar. Many people have the fear of public speaking. Many
                > > of these H.I.s, in the past, worked in the background until
                > > Klemp implemented the restrictions in order to "slow down"
                > > the Eck Initiations to prevent too many more reaching the
                > > limits of the 7th!
                > >
                > > HK: "During this ten-year sabbatical from the outer ECK works,
                > > June decided to learn Mandarin Chinese. She is Chinese."
                > >
                > > [ME] Okay, NOW Klemp is saying that "JUNE," also, took TEN
                > > YEARS OFF (ten-year sabbatical) starting about "ten years ago."
                > > The thing that smells, here, is that Eckists are only permitted
                > > to officially take a FIVE-YEAR REST PERIOD (sabbatical). Does
                > > this mean that German-American H.I.s can take a TEN YEAR
                > > SABBATICAL from the "outer ECK works" to learn GERMAN?
                > > It seems so! However, will they also lose initiations? I know
                > > that they lose the time-in-grade for that next promotion.
                > > Except, Eckists in countries outside of the U.S. do get promoted
                > > faster!
                > >
                > > HK: "Fast-forward now to several years ago, when she came
                > > back to the outer ECK works and resumed the ECK Satsang
                > > classes. One day Mary called her. Would June like to give a
                > > short talk at the ECK Worship Service on how it was when she
                > > left the outer study and how it is now? June readily agreed."
                > >
                > > [ME] Isn't Klemp's Time-Line kind of screwed up?! HK states
                > > that "June" stepped back from the outer Eck works 10 years ago,
                > > and took a 10 year rest (sabbatical). Now, Klemp wants us to
                > > "fast-forward" to "several years ago!" Maybe we should REWIND
                > > to "several years ago!" Except, this doesn't make sense either
                > > if about 10 years ago, 1997, she took a 10 year rest to 2007.
                > > So, how could "JUNE" come "back to the outer ECK works"
                > > several (4-5?) years ago in 2002?! Klemp doesn't even have
                > > the awareness to keep his "facts" accurate in his embellished
                > > stories! Also, what was it, originally, that made "June" feel
                > > "UNWORTHY and UNABLE to REACH what she felt were the
                > > REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an initiate in ECK?" Why did this
                > > change? Did she have more confidence or find some additional
                > > identity or self-knowledge through the process of learning a
                > > new language? Klemp seems to skip over these details, and
                > > lacks the insight to give clarity for this.
                > >
                > > HK: "Later, when the service was over and most people were
                > > gone from the ECK center, a car pulled into a parking spot right
                > > out front. An Asian man climbed out and then stood looking
                > > in at the ECK-center door." 'Would you like to come in and look
                > > around?' Mary asked. Mary had a feeling that he had a hard time
                > > understanding English, so she called June over. June addressed
                > > him in Mandarin. Soon they were engaged in a lively conversation."
                > >
                > > [ME] Interesting! Klemp states that (H.I.) "Mary Had a Feeling."
                > > I thought that "feelings" and "intuition," for Eckists, were of a
                > > negative and lower Astral experience or focus!
                > >
                > > HK: "Later, June told Mary and other ECK initiates his story.
                > > The Man had never heard of ECKANKAR before. He was
                > > on a short vacation from Taiwan and had been looking for
                > > the marketplace. He had only stopped in front of the ECK
                > > center because he was looking for a parking spot. The only
                > > open one was right at the center's front door.
                > >
                > > 'This is a miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!' For the ECK
                > > and the Mahanta were exactly what he was looking for."
                > >
                > > [ME] If this common incident was a "miracle" for this guy
                > > and for these Eckists, as well as, for Klemp then this really
                > > limits what kind of "miracles" and changes in consciousness
                > > will take place in the future for any of these people! These
                > > things happen to EVERYONE and NOT just to ECKISTS!
                > > There are TV shows that show incidents "miracles" that are
                > > really astounding rather than these mundane little Eckie
                > > stories that can't even follow a time-line! It seems that Klemp
                > > is grabbing at straws (with these stories) to keep Eckankar afloat!
                > >
                > > HK: "That is an excellent example of how the Mahanta's long arm
                > > reaches out to a true seeker. But then, likely as not, he calls
                > > on you to do your part. The path of ECK is one of giving and
                > > receiving, for that is the way of sure spiritual unfoldment.
                > > June undoubtedly learned this firsthand."
                > >
                > > [ME] I'm curious about one thing here. What makes this business
                > > man from Taiwan, who is visiting Australia, a "TRUE SEEKER?"
                > > Did this guy join Eckankar? What did the Mahanta have to do
                > > with "June" taking 10 years off from the Outer Eck Works to learn
                > > Mandarin in order to have have a short conversation with this man?
                > > Maybe all ECKists need to take TEN YEARS OFF to prepare for
                > > "miracles" to happen to them! Is this Klemp's real (hidden)
                > > message to his H.I.s? LOL!
                > >
                > > The thing with ECKANKAR, and ALL religions, is there is always
                > > a religious leader (prophet-saviour-cleric, etc.) taking credit for
                > > healings, miracles, prophecies, etc. in advance, after-the-fact,
                > > and in one way or another! They all try to make their approach
                > > to be the best, fastest, highest, and the one-and-only valid
                > > teaching from God! They have all of the answers and all of
                > > the miracles while everyone else, the non-members, are lost
                > > and condemned to a Hell of some sort, unless, "seekers" join
                > > their specific group of believers. However, the mind's imagination
                > > will mock-up what it focuses upon and desires, sometimes/
                > > usually subtly, through various levels of conscious, subconscious,
                > > and unconsciousness workings of mental energy.
                > >
                > > The sad thing for ECKists is: That they can't see that Eckankar
                > > is similar to ALL other religions; They aren't aware of their
                > > roots (Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang); ECKists aren't able to
                > > see that Klemp has nothing of spiritual substance to offer them!
                > > This H.I. LETTER is just a pep talk to inspire H.I.s to get out there
                > > and spend their time and money recruiting more members and
                > > along the way they might experience the same "miracles" that
                > > other people experience throughout life! Another thing is...
                > > It seems that the More Clueless ECKists and the Less Spiritually
                > > Free ECKists are the ones that are the Long-Time (30 year plus)
                > > "Higher" ones when others have achieved Self-Mastery and
                > > Spiritual Freedom in fewer years and in NO YEARS as an ECKist!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                >
              • mishmisha9
                Hi, All! Just some thoughts about conformity and how it relates in eckankar in particular. Prometheus wrote: It s amazing that Eckists think that they are
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 18, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi, All!

                  Just some thoughts about conformity and how it relates in
                  eckankar in particular.

                  Prometheus wrote:
                  "It's amazing that Eckists think that they are non-conformists
                  when they have just become conformists of a different sort."

                  Whenever anyone joins a religious group or other org, one is
                  agreeing to accept the group think, and in essence one is
                  surrendering one's individual critical thinking. Joining up and
                  agreeing to do spiritual exercises, Satsang classes, vahana work, etc.
                  are all conformist acts. A chela might think this leads to achieving
                  spiritual freedom and enlightenment, but it seems to me that this
                  lack of original "think" is just playing around--agreeing to be a
                  follower and allowing the "herd mentality" con game to work.

                  Of course, the initiations are the "report card" that shows how well
                  one is doing in eckankar, and from the need to achieve those initiations,
                  one feels competitive with other chelas. How many eckists are there
                  that can honestly state that it doesn't bother them when another chela
                  moves ahead of them in initiation level? Doesn't it make one question
                  one's spiritual efforts when an initiation is not forth-coming, but yet
                  one sees another possibly not so hard-working or seemingly not so
                  spiritually tuned in chela, getting ahead on that initiation ladder? It has
                  to make one wonder what the heck is going on, doesn't it???

                  Of course, there is all that hogwash about the inner vs the outer that
                  "explains" away all of these outer discrepancies! Always, the excuses,
                  cover-ups, now you see and now you don't explanations for those who
                  really want to believe in this bogus, scammy belief system called
                  eckankar! Where can the honest, whole truth be found? Well, if one
                  can believe one's imagination as being such, I guess that is what
                  eckists have to rely on in the final analysis! It's all imaginary! LOL!

                  It all falls back on the need to belong to something, or to take up
                  causes, ect. Most people want to belong and hang on to something--
                  becoming followers I guess! And that is why it is so easy to fall for
                  religious scams and other sorts of orgs and group thinking!

                  Beware of preachers (like Klemp and company) and other "experts"
                  who like to stand on soap boxes! LOL!

                  Mish

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > HK: "Later, WHEN the SERVICE was OVER and MOST PEOPLE
                  > WERE GONE from the ECK CENTER, a car pulled into a PARKING
                  > SPOT right out front... He HAD ONLY STOPPED in front of the
                  > ECK center because he was looking for a PARKING SPOT. The
                  > only open one was right at the center's front door... 'This is a
                  > miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!'... That is an excellent
                  > example of how the Mahanta's LONG ARM reaches out to a
                  > TRUE [Parking Spot] SEEKER. But then, likely as not, he calls
                  > on you to do your part [Move Your Car]. The path of ECK is
                  > one of GIVING [Until It Hurts] and RECEIVING [Imagined Results
                  > and Fake Initiations], for that is the way of SURE spiritual
                  > unfoldment" [As Long As You're Membership Is Current $$$].
                  >
                  > On another note-
                  > Hi Mish, I too still have some guilt for having brought people
                  > into Eckankar. I know of a few current H.I.s that I personally
                  > influenced to join. This is just one of the many reasons why this
                  > ESA site still exists... it's sort of an act of atonement for all of
                  > those years that my focus was so narrowed and closed minded.
                  > I had even become a religious fanatic as I was selling Eckankar.
                  > Away from the Eckankar Center or ECK Events I was a much
                  > happier person, but at Eckankar functions I changed and took
                  > things much too seriously. Those Eck Guidelines and knowing
                  > I was being watched and evaluated by my peers (and squealed
                  > upon to the RESA) led to a lot of stress because I wanted (needed)
                  > that higher position and next initiation. Also, with any religion
                  > it seems that 'misery loves company' and the more people
                  > [especially intelligent people] the religionists can bring into their
                  > fold the more proof they have, for others, that their religion has
                  > the highest "Truth." This is, also, why Eckankar will promote, (faster),
                  > Eckists that are professionals (doctors, lawyers, architects) or those
                  > who have a somewhat higher profile within the local community (it
                  > also helps to have experience in public speeking). And, foreign
                  > Eckists get promoted much faster than do U.S. Eckists! Therefore,
                  > success (initiation & position) in Eckankar is definitely tied into the
                  > Vahana (missionary) effort to bring in paying members. When one
                  > looks at Eckankar with some scrutiny via critical thinking one can
                  > see that Eckankar makes a lot of promises (like all religions do)
                  > and then lets it's chelas fill-in the blanks with their imaginations,
                  > except, one has to follow the rules & dogma (like with other religions)
                  > and become conformists! It's amazing that Eckists think that they
                  > are non-conformists when they have just become conformists of
                  > a different sort. How can Eckists really claim that Eckankar is an
                  > Individual "Path" to God when it is neither Individual or a path to
                  > "God!" Eckankar is just more Religious Delusion and Myth like the
                  > Older Religions that Eckists gave up!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > mish wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The Secret Responsibilities of H.I.s--Be a Vahana! LOL!
                  > >
                  > > Obviously, Klemp is giving tips on how H.I.s can more
                  > > successfully achieve their vahana duties: learn how to
                  > > communicate with those people who speak a different language;
                  > > mingle with people of other religions and find a path to lead
                  > > them out the backdoor into the eck; and finally, look for street
                  > > kids as they are very vulnerable and perhaps easily manipulated.
                  > >
                  > > You know I'd be interested in knowing how many children of
                  > > eckists actually remain eckists as adults? It doesn't seem that
                  > > the eck youth groups are as large as the adults--it would seem
                  > > there would be more? Of course, Harold's daughter ditched
                  > > eckankar--that is rather amazing in itself!!
                  > >
                  > > Well, these three embellished stories do show those lower
                  > > initiates what they can look forward to when they finally achieve
                  > > H.I. status--it's all about recruitment! It's nothing about
                  > > being more spiritually enlightened--it's all about H.I.s being
                  > > elevated up to BIG recruiter status, nothing more! ! LOL!
                  > >
                  > > On another note, though, it is rather sad when one finally
                  > > realizes how duped one has been, and then add the guilt trip of
                  > > having duped others by dutifully trying to recruit others into
                  > > the org! It does bother me that I handed out those little eck
                  > > books, Ancient Wisdom for Today, to so many people. I don't
                  > > mind that I was foolish--I'm only sorry I tried to mislead others.
                  > > Saying that eckankar is no worse than any other religion, or
                  > > that one can take away something of value from the teachings,
                  > > just doesn't excuse my behavior or responsibility in fooling
                  > > others through dumb vahana work. To me, putting value on
                  > > the eck experience this way is just an attempt at protecting ego.
                  > > Personally, I feel better for recognizing the guilt I have for
                  > > participating in the vahana activities.
                  > >
                  > > Mish
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > The H.I. Letter, June 2007 (Front Page Article)
                  > > > by Harold Klemp
                  > > >
                  > > > #1
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                  > > >
                  > > > The Mahanta REACHES OUT FOR SEEKERS in surprising
                  > > > ways. A CASE IN POINT is the Story Told by a Higher
                  > > > Initiate, whom WE WILL CALL MARY, who is in AUSTRALIA."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] Whom "We" will call Mary? Who's "we?" Why not say,
                  > > > Whom "I" will call Mary? Is this a Freudian slip showing
                  > > > that Klemp is, also, a Paranoid Schizophrenic and a
                  > > > narcissist?! I think so! Also, as you read this "story" look
                  > > > for and compare: Who did what; Why it was done; How
                  > > > many people did it affect; in What way?
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "Mary has a friend, June (a pseudonym), who is an ECK
                  > > > initiate. June had been an initiate Quite A FEW YEARS, UNTIL
                  > > > ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO, when she decided to STEP BACK
                  > > > from the OUTER WORKS of ECK. She did so BECAUSE SHE FELT
                  > > > UNWORTHY and UNABLE to reach what she felt were THE
                  > > > REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an INITIATE in ECK. Yet she kept
                  > > > up with the Spiritual Exercises of ECK and inner contact with
                  > > > the Master."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] So, "June" (probably an H.I.) stepped back and took a
                  > > > rest about ten years ago (1997). It seems that June couldn't
                  > > > fulfill the Eck Leadership requirements for H.I.s which includes
                  > > > participating in and planning intros, taking a leadership role,
                  > > > having the required trainings, becoming a Cleric (first) and
                  > > > having to do the EWS, and being a spokesperson (locally) for
                  > > > Eckankar. Many people have the fear of public speaking. Many
                  > > > of these H.I.s, in the past, worked in the background until
                  > > > Klemp implemented the restrictions in order to "slow down"
                  > > > the Eck Initiations to prevent too many more reaching the
                  > > > limits of the 7th!
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "During this ten-year sabbatical from the outer ECK works,
                  > > > June decided to learn Mandarin Chinese. She is Chinese."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] Okay, NOW Klemp is saying that "JUNE," also, took TEN
                  > > > YEARS OFF (ten-year sabbatical) starting about "ten years ago."
                  > > > The thing that smells, here, is that Eckists are only permitted
                  > > > to officially take a FIVE-YEAR REST PERIOD (sabbatical). Does
                  > > > this mean that German-American H.I.s can take a TEN YEAR
                  > > > SABBATICAL from the "outer ECK works" to learn GERMAN?
                  > > > It seems so! However, will they also lose initiations? I know
                  > > > that they lose the time-in-grade for that next promotion.
                  > > > Except, Eckists in countries outside of the U.S. do get promoted
                  > > > faster!
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "Fast-forward now to several years ago, when she came
                  > > > back to the outer ECK works and resumed the ECK Satsang
                  > > > classes. One day Mary called her. Would June like to give a
                  > > > short talk at the ECK Worship Service on how it was when she
                  > > > left the outer study and how it is now? June readily agreed."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] Isn't Klemp's Time-Line kind of screwed up?! HK states
                  > > > that "June" stepped back from the outer Eck works 10 years ago,
                  > > > and took a 10 year rest (sabbatical). Now, Klemp wants us to
                  > > > "fast-forward" to "several years ago!" Maybe we should REWIND
                  > > > to "several years ago!" Except, this doesn't make sense either
                  > > > if about 10 years ago, 1997, she took a 10 year rest to 2007.
                  > > > So, how could "JUNE" come "back to the outer ECK works"
                  > > > several (4-5?) years ago in 2002?! Klemp doesn't even have
                  > > > the awareness to keep his "facts" accurate in his embellished
                  > > > stories! Also, what was it, originally, that made "June" feel
                  > > > "UNWORTHY and UNABLE to REACH what she felt were the
                  > > > REQUIREMENTS NEEDED as an initiate in ECK?" Why did this
                  > > > change? Did she have more confidence or find some additional
                  > > > identity or self-knowledge through the process of learning a
                  > > > new language? Klemp seems to skip over these details, and
                  > > > lacks the insight to give clarity for this.
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "Later, when the service was over and most people were
                  > > > gone from the ECK center, a car pulled into a parking spot right
                  > > > out front. An Asian man climbed out and then stood looking
                  > > > in at the ECK-center door." 'Would you like to come in and look
                  > > > around?' Mary asked. Mary had a feeling that he had a hard time
                  > > > understanding English, so she called June over. June addressed
                  > > > him in Mandarin. Soon they were engaged in a lively conversation."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] Interesting! Klemp states that (H.I.) "Mary Had a Feeling."
                  > > > I thought that "feelings" and "intuition," for Eckists, were of a
                  > > > negative and lower Astral experience or focus!
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "Later, June told Mary and other ECK initiates his story.
                  > > > The Man had never heard of ECKANKAR before. He was
                  > > > on a short vacation from Taiwan and had been looking for
                  > > > the marketplace. He had only stopped in front of the ECK
                  > > > center because he was looking for a parking spot. The only
                  > > > open one was right at the center's front door.
                  > > >
                  > > > 'This is a miracle!' he kept saying. 'A miracle!' For the ECK
                  > > > and the Mahanta were exactly what he was looking for."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] If this common incident was a "miracle" for this guy
                  > > > and for these Eckists, as well as, for Klemp then this really
                  > > > limits what kind of "miracles" and changes in consciousness
                  > > > will take place in the future for any of these people! These
                  > > > things happen to EVERYONE and NOT just to ECKISTS!
                  > > > There are TV shows that show incidents "miracles" that are
                  > > > really astounding rather than these mundane little Eckie
                  > > > stories that can't even follow a time-line! It seems that Klemp
                  > > > is grabbing at straws (with these stories) to keep Eckankar afloat!
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "That is an excellent example of how the Mahanta's long arm
                  > > > reaches out to a true seeker. But then, likely as not, he calls
                  > > > on you to do your part. The path of ECK is one of giving and
                  > > > receiving, for that is the way of sure spiritual unfoldment.
                  > > > June undoubtedly learned this firsthand."
                  > > >
                  > > > [ME] I'm curious about one thing here. What makes this business
                  > > > man from Taiwan, who is visiting Australia, a "TRUE SEEKER?"
                  > > > Did this guy join Eckankar? What did the Mahanta have to do
                  > > > with "June" taking 10 years off from the Outer Eck Works to learn
                  > > > Mandarin in order to have have a short conversation with this man?
                  > > > Maybe all ECKists need to take TEN YEARS OFF to prepare for
                  > > > "miracles" to happen to them! Is this Klemp's real (hidden)
                  > > > message to his H.I.s? LOL!
                  > > >
                  > > > The thing with ECKANKAR, and ALL religions, is there is always
                  > > > a religious leader (prophet-saviour-cleric, etc.) taking credit for
                  > > > healings, miracles, prophecies, etc. in advance, after-the-fact,
                  > > > and in one way or another! They all try to make their approach
                  > > > to be the best, fastest, highest, and the one-and-only valid
                  > > > teaching from God! They have all of the answers and all of
                  > > > the miracles while everyone else, the non-members, are lost
                  > > > and condemned to a Hell of some sort, unless, "seekers" join
                  > > > their specific group of believers. However, the mind's imagination
                  > > > will mock-up what it focuses upon and desires, sometimes/
                  > > > usually subtly, through various levels of conscious, subconscious,
                  > > > and unconsciousness workings of mental energy.
                  > > >
                  > > > The sad thing for ECKists is: That they can't see that Eckankar
                  > > > is similar to ALL other religions; They aren't aware of their
                  > > > roots (Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang); ECKists aren't able to
                  > > > see that Klemp has nothing of spiritual substance to offer them!
                  > > > This H.I. LETTER is just a pep talk to inspire H.I.s to get out there
                  > > > and spend their time and money recruiting more members and
                  > > > along the way they might experience the same "miracles" that
                  > > > other people experience throughout life! Another thing is...
                  > > > It seems that the More Clueless ECKists and the Less Spiritually
                  > > > Free ECKists are the ones that are the Long-Time (30 year plus)
                  > > > "Higher" ones when others have achieved Self-Mastery and
                  > > > Spiritual Freedom in fewer years and in NO YEARS as an ECKist!
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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