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Re: integrity

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  • tomleafeater
    ... that I ... Eckists ... one ... I ... ESA ... an ... of ... suppose ... You re fortunate to have had a good experience with the so-called Eck Spiritual Aid.
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 27, 2007
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlaprendergast"
      <kws11@...> wrote:
      >
      > Funny you mentioned that. The day before we broke up I told him
      that I
      > likened his behavior to Jim Jones and David Koresh. I can't tell by
      > the smattering of Eck events that I went to whether his fellow
      Eckists
      > would agree with his lifestyle. I do know however that there was
      one
      > Eckist that I met that was so kind and wonderful that in retrospect
      I
      > wonder how she ever got mixed up in all that nonsense. She was an
      ESA
      > that he took me to a few weeks ago. She sat and talked with me for
      an
      > hour and it was great, a free therapy session! She didn't spew any
      of
      > the nonsense that I have heard from him. I'm curious, what level
      > initiate do you have to be to be an Eck Spiritual Advisor? I
      suppose
      > she could have just been BSing me. He was always trying to bring me
      > into the fold and I think if anyone met with her they would join up
      > immediately.
      >


      You're fortunate to have had a good experience with the so-called Eck
      Spiritual Aid. Many former eckists have reported that the sessions
      can be very manipulative and self-serving to the eckankar agenda. And
      frankly, these sessions often do resemble an attempt at therapy, even
      though eckankar policy states them to not have such a function. Yet,
      in eckankar as well as many other religions, the clerics truly are
      sought out for exactly that purspose, whether it is admitted to or
      not by the particular church.

      By the way, the ESA's/RESA's do not have ANY training in therapy, and
      are not exactly the people to turn to if you, as a non-member in a
      relationship with an sixth initiate, have a complaint about an
      eckankar high initiate. Your sixth initiate boyfriend would simply
      tell them a bunch of BS about you in his own aid session with the
      ESA, and then the whole matter would very likely be dropped by the
      ESA or RESA and be soon forgetten (I've witnessed such events unfold
      in exactly such a manner). In my experience, the ESA/RESA will tend,
      in most circumstances, to side with the organization, which, again,
      doesn't like to intervene at all in personal issues of families. They
      would likely say YOU have some problem (victim consciousness), rather
      than take your word against that of a sixth initiate. So, going to
      the org for help, such as to ESA's and RESA's, would likely have
      disappointed you.

      Leafeater




      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
      > <zoey_true@> wrote:
      > >
      > > i was reading marla's post concerning her ex-boyfriend's lack of
      > > integrity. it reminds me of jim jones, david koresh, etc etc.
      the
      > > followers of those men overlooked all manner of decadence and
      > > indecency - they overlooked believing that their leader was above
      > the
      > > common man, not subject to the moral behavior expected of other
      men.
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Elizabeth
      ... *** I ll give you that much Marla... and then I would also ask you this; Did you go to any of the Eckankar sites and ask this of their members? There
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 28, 2007
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlaprendergast"
        <kws11@...> wrote:

        > You are completely missing my point. I came on this forum to find
        > out if there was a pervasive pattern in Eckankar of people
        > justifying dishonest sleazy behavior by claiming that it led to
        > their "spiritual unfoldment."


        *** I'll give you that much Marla... and then I would also ask you
        this; Did you go to any of the Eckankar sites and ask this of their
        members? There are several HIs that frequent Hu-chat, I bet you
        could ask them that same question you came to the ex eck sites and
        asked. :-) Let us know how that goes....



        > I was in an allegedly committed
        > relationship with this person who claimed to be a spiritually
        > advanced HI Cleric and he was cheating on me with paid hookers. I
        > was curious as to whether he just a fake Eckist, or whether
        Eckankar
        > is fake.


        *** It wasn't all that long ago when a well known TV evangelical
        christian was exposed for hiring gay hooker / hookers, and had
        previously claimed it was an immoral type of behavior and sinfull.
        Now I ask you, what makes that guy, and your ex any different? It
        happens all the time!


        > Please don't comment on my integrity. You don't even know me.

        *** I was commenting on my integrity.

        And by the way, "Zoey" doesn't know me or any of my ex eck husbands!
        (All 2 of them) That is because they were nobodies in the eck
        community! Most all of the eckists in the community didn't know
        them, since they (the ex husbands) very rarely (if at all)
        participated in ANY functions! Dropping a name or a comment/s that
        they think will give the impression they KNOW something about me or
        my life, doesn't effect me in the slightest!

        How hard is it to create a fake ID, go to the ex eck chat groups, or
        a.r.e., read other peoples comments concerning eckankrap, then call
        it their own! Here is an example; Sharon from ET has shared how
        Cheryl Grundy doesn't know an SK quote, from a made up one. My
        point; Zoey came here to ESA not too many months ago claiming the
        very same thing, same story nearly word for word, or was that fishnik
        (?) however s/he spelled their fake ID? Or hey here is a scenerio,
        maybe Zoey is Sharon? ;-)))) Sharon I hope you are reading this!?
        LOL

        So how is that workin for you Zoey_true? OR shall we call you
        Cheryl, or maybe it's Rich?



        > I'm not sure what you are saying there. I don't believe in the
        > mahanta, so I obviously wouldn't think that way, even as a joke.


        *** I wasn't joking, I was pointing out how the HIs and eckies excuse
        away their own behavior! I have even heard other eckies question how
        on earth Harold could appoint so and so as an ESA, when all she was
        was a slut, stealing other eck women's husbands. LOL The comment by
        the RESA was, "well, maybe the LEM feels this position will teach her
        an important lesson concerning her own behavior, or maybe she still
        has some karma to work off in that area"! (I kid you not!)


        > > "Marla PreTenderGasp"
        >
        > Please explain why you are mocking my name. Do you doubt my motives
        > here?


        *** Honestly? Yes. Especially the fact that you comment about your
        ex keeping his membership card right next to the condom.... was that
        important to you? The fact that the membership card is slipped in
        with the condom? And if so, why does that particular point bother
        you? How about sharing your history with this individual prior to
        the break up.... how were you impacted by his being an eck member,
        and why did you buy into thinking he was somebody special just
        because he was an HI, and his membership card said so. Did your ex
        boyfriend lead you to believe he was some super special person within
        the organization? How did you come to understand what an HI even
        represents, and did you look up to your boyfriend? Had you ever heard
        of Eckankar prior to meeting your HI boyfriend?

        You wrote: I was in an allegedly committed relationship with this
        person who claimed to be a spiritually advanced HI Cleric and he was
        cheating on me with paid hookers. I was curious as to whether he was
        just a fake Eckist, or whether Eckankar is fake.


        *** Now why would you question whether Eckankar was fake? Did you
        begin to buy into the BS? Did you do any investigating of the
        teachings before breaking it off with your ex boyfriend? Or did you
        break it off because of the comment he made about paying hookers.....


        I wrote:
        > If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend,
        > > and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't
        > you feel
        > > some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least
        > report him
        > > to the RESA of the State?
        >
        > Again, I don't believe in Eckankar and have no reason to go to the
        > RESA, whoever that is.


        *** A question; If you were with this guy for a year, I assume you
        attended eck functions? Got to know some of the members... did you
        believe in eckankrap then, or just going along with it because you
        cared about the this guy?

        I wrote:
        > > I would even go as far as reporting this to the
        > > Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting
        > operation to
        > > capture and take these people off the streets. In turn this just
        > might get
        > > your ex caught with his pants down....
        > >


        You wrote:
        > I'm not sure what you are getting at here.


        *** It is very self explanitory what I was getting at. The guy was
        breaking a law! If you were that concerned about him having done this
        to you, (and trying to find out if he is for real or if eck is fake),
        report his actions so the Law Enforcement and get these people off
        the street! And in the process, they might catch him with his pants
        down... in other words, in a compromising possition!



        > What I was sharing, which you apparently missed, is an experience
        > with a person who buys into the bullshit Eckankar spiritual
        > arrogance. And frankly I think that my story actually contributes
        to
        > the dialogue about "the truth behind the lies", because it
        > exemplifies the disingenuous nature of a "religion" that justifies
        > bad behavior under the rubric of spiritual growth.


        *** So did you come to this conclussion before or after the ex bf? I
        didn't miss your point, just wondering how you came to it? How would
        you know how an HI is suppose to behave? I'm wondering what the wife
        of that famous christian that got ratted out by his ex gay lover,
        feels? Does she think he is still spiritual or higher than anyone
        else? Did this guy have the same arrogance as your ex bf? It will
        be interesting to hear her side of the story! Wonder if she will
        attempt to fix her marriage, or research and bash him? No disrespect
        here intended really, though I am sure Leaf can't wait to get ahold
        of me! ;-) All these questions are intended to allow you the chance
        to enlighten others of your experience.


        You wrote:
        > I don't need a counselor, thanks. But you might want to
        > consult one to figure out why you felt the need to launch into a
        > personal attack on an individual who was merely trying to
        > understand her experience with an amoral Eckist.


        *** Did you ask him to clarify his amoral eckist behavior? Did you
        point out you didn't feel solisiting hookers was very spiritual?
        Really, I would like to know what he may or may not have said to
        these questions!?


        You originally wrote:
        > > -------Original Message-------
        > >
        > > From: marlaprendergast
        > > Date: 6/25/2007 10:14:38 PM
        > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: integrity
        > >
        > > My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that
        says
        > > he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he
        > keeps
        > > there for when he picks up hookers.


        *** To be honest I am surprised he didn't claim he was paying these
        hookers, so he could get them in a room and give them an introductory
        talk on eckankrap! ;-)

        By The Way Zoey, for your info I am one of the moderators of this
        group! So don't blame Prometheus for everything that goes on here!
        How's that workin for you Zoey?

        Oh, and before I forget; Welcome to the group Rowan_oak22...
        interesting that you just created your account the very day Zoey left
        us! See how spirit works? One leaves and we are replaced with
        another member. :-) Wonder if this is a waking dream?

        Liz,
        Who was a 6th, Initiator and ESA, and a member for over 30 years,
        both parents work/ed at ESC and know Joan and Harold personally. BTW,
        I was actually invited back to the teaching! ;-) So much for your
        threats Zoey!
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