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Re: integrity

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  • marlaprendergast
    Funny you mentioned that. The day before we broke up I told him that I likened his behavior to Jim Jones and David Koresh. I can t tell by the smattering of
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 21, 2007
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      Funny you mentioned that. The day before we broke up I told him that I
      likened his behavior to Jim Jones and David Koresh. I can't tell by
      the smattering of Eck events that I went to whether his fellow Eckists
      would agree with his lifestyle. I do know however that there was one
      Eckist that I met that was so kind and wonderful that in retrospect I
      wonder how she ever got mixed up in all that nonsense. She was an ESA
      that he took me to a few weeks ago. She sat and talked with me for an
      hour and it was great, a free therapy session! She didn't spew any of
      the nonsense that I have heard from him. I'm curious, what level
      initiate do you have to be to be an Eck Spiritual Advisor? I suppose
      she could have just been BSing me. He was always trying to bring me
      into the fold and I think if anyone met with her they would join up
      immediately.

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
      <zoey_true@...> wrote:
      >
      > i was reading marla's post concerning her ex-boyfriend's lack of
      > integrity. it reminds me of jim jones, david koresh, etc etc. the
      > followers of those men overlooked all manner of decadence and
      > indecency - they overlooked believing that their leader was above
      the
      > common man, not subject to the moral behavior expected of other men.
      >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Marla, Actually, ESA s are not supposed to act as therapists! They are supposed to be listeners. They are to, basically, help ECKists maintain their
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 22, 2007
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        Hi Marla,
        Actually, ESA's are not supposed to act as therapists! They
        are supposed to be listeners. They are to, basically, help ECKists
        maintain their spiritual balance and will ask questions to see
        what is lacking in order to get chelas back on track. And, if
        someone thinks there is a need for an ESA session then there
        must be something lacking! And, of course, there is always
        something... Catch-22 again!

        Is the chela doing their Spiritual Exercise (S.E.) daily? When, where,
        for how long? Are they using their Secret Word or another charged
        word? Are they changing their S.E. from time to time? Is the chela
        reading and contemplating on the Eck works, or reading too much?!
        Is the chela doing the Friday Fast? Is the chela writing their Monthly
        Report, and keeping a Dream Journal? Is the chela attending a Satsang
        Class, Book Discussion or reading/re-reading their Eck Discourses
        or the Shariyat? Is the chela doing any volunteering (Vahana work)
        because outflow is needed to balance out the inflow and vice-versa!
        Is there a balance of the 5 passions of the mind with the 5 virtures?
        What are their spiritual goals?

        Anyway, these just some of the things to look for and if one listens
        they can figure out what to ask or suggest. However, I think that your
        ex-boyfriend was trying to manipulate you and win you over to Eckankar
        via this loving, calm, kind, and "female" ESA.

        Now a days one has to be a 6th with a 30 year plus membership and
        be recommended by the RESA before becoming an ESA. One can tell
        the RESA that this is their goal, but the RESA will determine whether
        the chela has the qualities to become an ESA since ESA's, are eligible
        to become RESAs.

        There are some very nice and loving Eckists out there in "lala land"
        (Eckankar). They are being tricked just as the kind & loving Christians,
        or whatever, are being fooled! Then, of course, there are the nasty
        ones out there (like your ex) that just see the very same distorted/
        mythical teachings through their own lower and ego motivated
        perspectives.

        Klemp can seem very friendly too, and I'm certain that Vice-President
        Chaney can come across just friendly as Klemp does. But, both have,
        also, demonstrated their darker sides as well. Anyone can put on an
        act or say the "right" things for the public view. The "key" is in looking
        closely at everything they say or have said!

        Prometheus

        marla wrote:

        [snip]
        I do know however that there was one Eckist that I met that was
        so kind and wonderful that in retrospect I wonder how she ever
        got mixed up in all that nonsense. She was an ESA that he took
        me to a few weeks ago.

        She sat and talked with me for an hour and it was great, a free
        therapy session! She didn't spew any of the nonsense that I have
        heard from him. I'm curious, what level initiate do you have to be
        to be an Eck Spiritual Advisor? I suppose she could have just been
        BSing me. He was always trying to bring me into the fold and I think
        if anyone met with her they would join up immediately.
      • zoey_true
        marla, there is NO connection between eckankar initiation level and emotional/intellectual/psychological/spiritual development. None. Nada. therefore, you
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 23, 2007
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          marla, there is NO connection between eckankar initiation level and
          emotional/intellectual/psychological/spiritual development. None.
          Nada. therefore, you can meet one ESA who is quite wonderful, and
          another who is a fool. tho they are both in a certain amount of
          denial - the wonderful eckist has managed to turn the teachings in
          such a way that they, at least, provide some degree of upliftment.
          while the fool; well, he uses the eck stuff to build his ego while
          remaining a fool.

          an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.

          zoey...





          --- In EckankarSu

          vivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlaprendergast" <kws11@...> wrote:
          >
          > Funny you mentioned that. The day before we broke up I told him
          that I
          > likened his behavior to Jim Jones and David Koresh. I can't tell by
          > the smattering of Eck events that I went to whether his fellow
          Eckists
          > would agree with his lifestyle. I do know however that there was
          one
          > Eckist that I met that was so kind and wonderful that in retrospect
          I
          > wonder how she ever got mixed up in all that nonsense. She was an
          ESA
          > that he took me to a few weeks ago. She sat and talked with me for
          an
          > hour and it was great, a free therapy session! She didn't spew any
          of
          > the nonsense that I have heard from him. I'm curious, what level
          > initiate do you have to be to be an Eck Spiritual Advisor? I
          suppose
          > she could have just been BSing me. He was always trying to bring me
          > into the fold and I think if anyone met with her they would join up
          > immediately.
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
          > <zoey_true@> wrote:
          > >
          > > i was reading marla's post concerning her ex-boyfriend's lack of
          > > integrity. it reminds me of jim jones, david koresh, etc etc.
          the
          > > followers of those men overlooked all manner of decadence and
          > > indecency - they overlooked believing that their leader was above
          > the
          > > common man, not subject to the moral behavior expected of other
          men.
          > >
          > >
          >
        • ewickings
          Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you have to be a 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA. An ESA is not required to have any prior
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 24, 2007
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            Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you have to be a 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA.
             
            An ESA is not required to have any prior knowledge or education in counseling, psychology / psychiatry.  As an ESA, you have reached a degree of Spiritual Unfoldment where you become the channel for the Mahanta / the Eck, and therefore are an agent through which he speaks, imparting Spiritual Hocus-pocus.
             
            I was actually an Eck Initiator before becoming an ESA.  While studying the supper secret "white book" of initiations, I discovered those secret words are not so secret after all, since they are all listed in the hand book for the initiator to use!  It's Bogus Hocus-pocus BS!   
             
             
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
             
            an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.
             
            zoey...
             
             
             
             
             
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Liz, Yes, I explained this in a prior post. When an Eckist makes it to the 5th (today) after usually around 18-20 years (more or less) they have to wait 1
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 24, 2007
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              Hi Liz,
              Yes, I explained this in a prior post. When
              an Eckist makes it to the 5th (today) after
              usually around 18-20 years (more or less)
              they have to wait 1 or 2 years before being
              trained to become Eck Clerics. ESC wants
              them to get used to the 5th for awhile first.

              However, when one does become a Cleric they
              have to perform the duties of a Cleric such as
              conduct the Eck Worship Service (EWS). This is
              not an "honorary" position as the Eck Initiations
              are to Higher Consciousness!

              The next step is to become an Eck Initiator and this,
              usually, occurs around the time that the 6th initiation
              is due.

              The next step is to become an Eck Spiritual Aid (ESA).
              Therefore, today, a H.I. has to be a 6th initiate to become
              an ESA. All total this process, now, takes around 30 years
              or more, usually, than less.

              However, when achieving the ESA position this will then,
              eventually (after several years), qualify the H.I. to become
              a RESA. Of course all of this is tied in with maintaining a
              consistant paid/renewed annual membership, as well as,
              the completion of many trainings and duties, having friends
              in high places (RESA Hierarchy and/or at ESC), etc.

              BTW-In the past the brain-washing process was speeded
              up and Higher initiations and positions were given out at
              a much faster pace. Higher Consciousness has never been
              a factor. However, memorizing and repeating the dogma
              (sometimes word for word) in a professional or business
              like manner has always been the chief factor that has helped
              many Eckists to advance at a faster pace (than average) on
              the initiation ladder. Those networking friendships with other
              H.I.s and the RESA in one's local area are "key" to Initiation
              progress and assignment to "settler" positions. All of this is,
              also, connected to the Clerical, Initiator, and ESA position!
              And, not that many H.I.s will ever become Clerics, let alone
              Initiators, and even fewer will/can become ESAs, regardless,
              of years served in Eckankar.

              Prometheus


              Liz wrote:
              >
              > Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you have to be a
              > 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA.
              >
              > An ESA is not required to have any prior knowledge or education in
              > counseling, psychology / psychiatry. As an ESA, you have reached a degree
              > of Spiritual Unfoldment where you become the channel for the Mahanta / the
              > Eck, and therefore are an agent through which he speaks, imparting Spiritual
              > Hocus-pocus.
              >
              > I was actually an Eck Initiator before becoming an ESA. While studying the
              > supper secret "white book" of initiations, I discovered those secret words
              > are not so secret after all, since they are all listed in the hand book for
              > the initiator to use! It's Bogus Hocus-pocus BS!
              >
              >
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              >
              > an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.
              >
              > zoey...
              >
            • zoey_true
              back in my eck days there was at least one ESA in our local area who was a 5th initiate. i know that because i dated him. at any rate, that was some time
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 24, 2007
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                back in my eck days there was at least one ESA in our local area who
                was a 5th initiate. i know that because i dated him. at any rate,
                that was some time ago, and i'm sure things have changed. or maybe
                our local area simply didn't have any 6th initiates to use for an
                ESA. - after i discovered what a mess this 5th initiate was, i had a
                session with our local RESA. i was confused about why an ECK higher
                initiate could be such a jerk. the RESA told me that many many years
                ago, in the earlier days of eckankar, many eckists were given
                initiations when they weren't really ready for them. he couched this
                admission in careful language. anyways, it was his feelbe attempt to
                rationalize the fact that higher initiates could be as big a fools as
                any other asshole on the street.

                zoey...







                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ewickings"

                wickings@...> wrote:
                >
                > Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you
                have to be a
                > 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA.
                >
                > An ESA is not required to have any prior knowledge or education in
                > counseling, psychology / psychiatry. As an ESA, you have reached a
                degree
                > of Spiritual Unfoldment where you become the channel for the
                Mahanta / the
                > Eck, and therefore are an agent through which he speaks, imparting
                Spiritual
                > Hocus-pocus.
                >
                > I was actually an Eck Initiator before becoming an ESA. While
                studying the
                > supper secret "white book" of initiations, I discovered those
                secret words
                > are not so secret after all, since they are all listed in the hand
                book for
                > the initiator to use! It's Bogus Hocus-pocus BS!
                >
                >
                >
                > -------Original Message-------
                >
                >
                > an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.
                >
                > zoey...
                >
              • mishmisha9
                Hi, Zoey! I m doubling up your two recent posts in order to reply in one post to both! : ) Zoey is asking: i m going to try this quesiton again in hopes that
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 24, 2007
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                  Hi, Zoey!

                  I'm doubling up your two recent posts in order to reply in one
                  post to both! : )

                  Zoey is asking:
                  "i'm going to try this quesiton again in hopes that someone will
                  respond: i have read that harold is estranged from his non-eck
                  family. how do you all know that? does he talk about it openly?
                  what does he say on this matter? i would be interested in anything
                  anyone knows. are his parents living? was he estranged from them?
                  and what about his children? aren't some of them non-eck? is he
                  estranged from them?

                  thanks, zoey..."


                  It is understoond that HK's only child is not an eckist even though
                  she grew up in the org. Interesting how she took another direction.

                  HK didn't go to his father's funeral, saying "Let the dead bury the
                  dead." As far as how connected he is today with his remaining
                  family, I don't know for sure. I'm sure his mother was very disappointed
                  that he did not honor his father by coming to his father's funeral, opting
                  to be eckie instead! Why didn't he want to comfort his mother???

                  I also find it interesting that this great (fake) spiritual leader keeps his
                  private life so totally private. It makes me wonder what he is actually hiding
                  or what he is fearing. I can even imagine that he displayed more insanity
                  before he went into the insane asylum, and this might be a reason to
                  keep people away from finding out about his past. : )

                  At the very least, he demonstrates little in regards to valuing family
                  relationships. It permeates out into the eck community in that many
                  eckists have cut themselves off from non-eck family and friends. This
                  is one of the hallmarks of cult behavior.

                  Now on to your next post,

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "zoey_true" <zoey_true@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > back in my eck days there was at least one ESA in our local area who
                  > was a 5th initiate. i know that because i dated him. at any rate,
                  > that was some time ago, and i'm sure things have changed. or maybe
                  > our local area simply didn't have any 6th initiates to use for an
                  > ESA. - after i discovered what a mess this 5th initiate was, i had a
                  > session with our local RESA. i was confused about why an ECK higher
                  > initiate could be such a jerk. the RESA told me that many many years
                  > ago, in the earlier days of eckankar, many eckists were given
                  > initiations when they weren't really ready for them. he couched this
                  > admission in careful language. anyways, it was his feelbe attempt to
                  > rationalize the fact that higher initiates could be as big a fools as
                  > any other asshole on the street.
                  >
                  > zoey...
                  >

                  #### In regards, to ESA's being 5th Initiates, that was prior to the RESA
                  hierarchy that was created in 1985 by Klemp. All of this information is
                  found in the eck works and also in previous posts on this site.

                  Interesting, though, how the RESA in your case tried to explain away
                  your H.I. boyfriend's bad behavior while still serving as an ESA. What
                  a joke that all is! He should never have been given the position of an
                  ESA, but then again, I don't think any eckist should be taking on such a
                  job as the qualifications to be one is are next to none! : )

                  Mish

                  ps, you might have already posted about your eck experience on here
                  or another site, but would you mind refreshing us? How many years
                  you were a member and your level of participation? How long you have
                  been out and why you dropped out? Just curious. Thanks!

                  #########################################################


                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ewickings"
                  >
                  > wickings@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you
                  > have to be a
                  > > 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA.
                  > >
                  > > An ESA is not required to have any prior knowledge or education in
                  > > counseling, psychology / psychiatry. As an ESA, you have reached a
                  > degree
                  > > of Spiritual Unfoldment where you become the channel for the
                  > Mahanta / the
                  > > Eck, and therefore are an agent through which he speaks, imparting
                  > Spiritual
                  > > Hocus-pocus.
                  > >
                  > > I was actually an Eck Initiator before becoming an ESA. While
                  > studying the
                  > > supper secret "white book" of initiations, I discovered those
                  > secret words
                  > > are not so secret after all, since they are all listed in the hand
                  > book for
                  > > the initiator to use! It's Bogus Hocus-pocus BS!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -------Original Message-------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.
                  > >
                  > > zoey...
                  > >
                  >
                • Ed Kusi
                  Hi Zoey! I know klemp s only daughter started toying with the Mormons in her teens. This was revealed by Klemp himself. The question I asked myself then and
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 24, 2007
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                    Hi Zoey!
                    I know klemp's only daughter started toying with the Mormons in her teens. This was revealed by Klemp himself. The question I asked myself then and now, and also put to Eckists is that if one's Daddy is God-incarnate, and head honcho of the 'highest, purest, and oldest' religion why leave to join something 'inferior'? But I think seeing all that she saw as a child growing up in the Klemp household made her know better. Mind you, she has more insider info about all this than anyone can have. Also, I wonder how Klemp's family and childhood neighbours take it when they hear that little Harry is now claiming to be God on earth LOL. No wonder he has cut himself off to avoid answering any questions.
                     
                    Pretujari

                    mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                    Hi, Zoey!

                    I'm doubling up your two recent posts in order to reply in one
                    post to both! : )

                    Zoey is asking:
                    "i'm going to try this quesiton again in hopes that someone will
                    respond: i have read that harold is estranged from his non-eck
                    family. how do you all know that? does he talk about it openly?
                    what does he say on this matter? i would be interested in anything
                    anyone knows. are his parents living? was he estranged from them?
                    and what about his children? aren't some of them non-eck? is he
                    estranged from them?

                    thanks, zoey..."

                    It is understoond that HK's only child is not an eckist even though
                    she grew up in the org. Interesting how she took another direction.

                    HK didn't go to his father's funeral, saying "Let the dead bury the
                    dead." As far as how connected he is today with his remaining
                    family, I don't know for sure. I'm sure his mother was very disappointed
                    that he did not honor his father by coming to his father's funeral, opting
                    to be eckie instead! Why didn't he want to comfort his mother???

                    I also find it interesting that this great (fake) spiritual leader keeps his
                    private life so totally private. It makes me wonder what he is actually hiding
                    or what he is fearing. I can even imagine that he displayed more insanity
                    before he went into the insane asylum, and this might be a reason to
                    keep people away from finding out about his past. : )

                    At the very least, he demonstrates little in regards to valuing family
                    relationships. It permeates out into the eck community in that many
                    eckists have cut themselves off from non-eck family and friends. This
                    is one of the hallmarks of cult behavior.

                    Now on to your next post,

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                    "zoey_true" <zoey_true@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > back in my eck days there was at least one ESA in our local area who
                    > was a 5th initiate. i know that because i dated him. at any rate,
                    > that was some time ago, and i'm sure things have changed. or maybe
                    > our local area simply didn't have any 6th initiates to use for an
                    > ESA. - after i discovered what a mess this 5th initiate was, i had a
                    > session with our local RESA. i was confused about why an ECK higher
                    > initiate could be such a jerk. the RESA told me that many many years
                    > ago, in the earlier days of eckankar, many eckists were given
                    > initiations when they weren't really ready for them. he couched this
                    > admission in careful language. anyways, it was his feelbe attempt to
                    > rationalize the fact that higher initiates could be as big a fools as
                    > any other asshole on the street.
                    >
                    > zoey...
                    >

                    #### In regards, to ESA's being 5th Initiates, that was prior to the RESA
                    hierarchy that was created in 1985 by Klemp. All of this information is
                    found in the eck works and also in previous posts on this site.

                    Interesting, though, how the RESA in your case tried to explain away
                    your H.I. boyfriend's bad behavior while still serving as an ESA. What
                    a joke that all is! He should never have been given the position of an
                    ESA, but then again, I don't think any eckist should be taking on such a
                    job as the qualifications to be one is are next to none! : )

                    Mish

                    ps, you might have already posted about your eck experience on here
                    or another site, but would you mind refreshing us? How many years
                    you were a member and your level of participation? How long you have
                    been out and why you dropped out? Just curious. Thanks!

                    ############ ######### ######### ######### ######### #########

                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "ewickings"
                    >
                    > wickings@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you
                    > have to be a
                    > > 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA.
                    > >
                    > > An ESA is not required to have any prior knowledge or education in
                    > > counseling, psychology / psychiatry. As an ESA, you have reached a
                    > degree
                    > > of Spiritual Unfoldment where you become the channel for the
                    > Mahanta / the
                    > > Eck, and therefore are an agent through which he speaks, imparting
                    > Spiritual
                    > > Hocus-pocus.
                    > >
                    > > I was actually an Eck Initiator before becoming an ESA. While
                    > studying the
                    > > supper secret "white book" of initiations, I discovered those
                    > secret words
                    > > are not so secret after all, since they are all listed in the hand
                    > book for
                    > > the initiator to use! It's Bogus Hocus-pocus BS!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -------Original Message----- --
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.
                    > >
                    > > zoey...
                    > >
                    >



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                  • marlaprendergast
                    My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says he s a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he keeps there for when he
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 25, 2007
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                      My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says
                      he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he keeps
                      there for when he picks up hookers.

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Liz,
                      > Yes, I explained this in a prior post. When
                      > an Eckist makes it to the 5th (today) after
                      > usually around 18-20 years (more or less)
                      > they have to wait 1 or 2 years before being
                      > trained to become Eck Clerics. ESC wants
                      > them to get used to the 5th for awhile first.
                      >
                      > However, when one does become a Cleric they
                      > have to perform the duties of a Cleric such as
                      > conduct the Eck Worship Service (EWS). This is
                      > not an "honorary" position as the Eck Initiations
                      > are to Higher Consciousness!
                      >
                      > The next step is to become an Eck Initiator and this,
                      > usually, occurs around the time that the 6th initiation
                      > is due.
                      >
                      > The next step is to become an Eck Spiritual Aid (ESA).
                      > Therefore, today, a H.I. has to be a 6th initiate to become
                      > an ESA. All total this process, now, takes around 30 years
                      > or more, usually, than less.
                      >
                      > However, when achieving the ESA position this will then,
                      > eventually (after several years), qualify the H.I. to become
                      > a RESA. Of course all of this is tied in with maintaining a
                      > consistant paid/renewed annual membership, as well as,
                      > the completion of many trainings and duties, having friends
                      > in high places (RESA Hierarchy and/or at ESC), etc.
                      >
                      > BTW-In the past the brain-washing process was speeded
                      > up and Higher initiations and positions were given out at
                      > a much faster pace. Higher Consciousness has never been
                      > a factor. However, memorizing and repeating the dogma
                      > (sometimes word for word) in a professional or business
                      > like manner has always been the chief factor that has helped
                      > many Eckists to advance at a faster pace (than average) on
                      > the initiation ladder. Those networking friendships with other
                      > H.I.s and the RESA in one's local area are "key" to Initiation
                      > progress and assignment to "settler" positions. All of this is,
                      > also, connected to the Clerical, Initiator, and ESA position!
                      > And, not that many H.I.s will ever become Clerics, let alone
                      > Initiators, and even fewer will/can become ESAs, regardless,
                      > of years served in Eckankar.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > Liz wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Unless things have changed since I was a member and an ESA, you
                      have to be a
                      > > 6th initiate to qualify as an ESA.
                      > >
                      > > An ESA is not required to have any prior knowledge or education
                      in
                      > > counseling, psychology / psychiatry. As an ESA, you have
                      reached a degree
                      > > of Spiritual Unfoldment where you become the channel for the
                      Mahanta / the
                      > > Eck, and therefore are an agent through which he speaks,
                      imparting Spiritual
                      > > Hocus-pocus.
                      > >
                      > > I was actually an Eck Initiator before becoming an ESA. While
                      studying the
                      > > supper secret "white book" of initiations, I discovered those
                      secret words
                      > > are not so secret after all, since they are all listed in the
                      hand book for
                      > > the initiator to use! It's Bogus Hocus-pocus BS!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -------Original Message-------
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > an ESA needs to have reached the 5th initiation level.
                      > >
                      > > zoey...
                      > >
                      >
                    • ewickings
                      I have been following along with this topic, and with all due respect to everyone here, I just really find this topic to be a dead issue! Of course the subject
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 26, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have been following along with this topic, and with all due respect to everyone here, I just really find this topic to be a dead issue! 
                         
                        Of course the subject title is integrity....  And I don't find anything wrong with a person having his / or her eck membership card in their wallet.  Nor do I really care about the fact this individual has a condom right next to it!  I think it is wise for this or any person to be using protection!
                         
                        What I do find interesting is the fact that an ex girlfriend is coming to these ex eck chat groups with an agenda that appears "to me" to be hearsay.  When I broke up with one of my ex eck husbands, I could have taken the opportunity to really slam him within the circle of eck initiates, because he was a male wore!   I had a little more integrity for myself, and refrained from bad mouthing him in public.  Once it was over, it was over!  No attempt to discredit him, no matter his status!  After all, the eck and the mahanta knows all, and therefore I felt this individual must have some karmic issues he still needed to learn. (This is intended as sarcasm!)  No matter the level of initiation, or public responsibilities....  Still not my place to point this out to everyone.
                         
                        "Marla PreTenderGasp",      If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend, and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't you feel some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least report him to the RESA of the State?  I would even go as far as reporting this to the Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting operation to capture and take these people off the streets.  In turn this just might get your ex caught with his pants down....  
                         
                        If this info is being shared as "SHOCK" factor against the org....   Well I'm not shocked, and could share many sex orgy stories that have taken place for years amongst the eck membership that I am aware of!  Who cares?  I think it is far more important to share the truth behind the lies, concerning the makings of this cult, and it's current spin Klump and company continue to weave. 
                         
                        Let's move on to the Wisdom Notes as was intended as current topic of choice by the ESA Moderator / Owner of this group!  One last point, sometimes a person scorned can spew a lot of nasty shit just to get it off their chest.  Maybe paying a counselor would help Marla get over the experience, so she can move on and find a descent guy!
                         
                        Liz 
                         
                                
                         
                        -------Original Message-------
                         
                        Date: 6/25/2007 10:14:38 PM
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: integrity
                         
                        My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says
                        he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he keeps
                        there for when he picks up hookers.
                         
                      • marlaprendergast
                        Wow, that was a really harsh and unecessary attack....Where do I begin? ... anything ... their wallet. ... right next ... protection! You are completely
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 26, 2007
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                          Wow, that was a really harsh and unecessary attack....Where do I
                          begin?

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ewickings"
                          <ewickings@...> wrote:
                          >

                          > Of course the subject title is integrity.... And I don't find
                          anything
                          > wrong with a person having his / or her eck membership card in
                          their wallet.
                          > Nor do I really care about the fact this individual has a condom
                          right next
                          > to it! I think it is wise for this or any person to be using
                          protection!

                          You are completely missing my point. I came on this forum to find
                          out if there was a pervasive pattern in Eckankar of people
                          justifying dishonest sleazy behavior by claiming that it led to
                          their "spiritual unfoldment." I was in an allegedly committed
                          relationship with this person who claimed to be a spiritually
                          advanced HI Cleric and he was cheating on me with paid hookers. I
                          was curious as to whether he just a fake Eckist, or whether Eckankar
                          is fake.

                          > What I do find interesting is the fact that an ex girlfriend is
                          coming to
                          > these ex eck chat groups with an agenda that appears "to me" to be
                          hearsay.
                          > When I broke up with one of my ex eck husbands, I could have taken
                          the
                          > opportunity to really slam him within the circle of eck initiates,
                          because
                          > he was a male wore! I had a little more integrity for myself, and
                          > refrained from bad mouthing him in public.

                          Please don't comment on my integrity. You don't even know me.

                          > Once it was over, it was over!
                          > No attempt to discredit him, no matter his status! After all, the
                          eck and
                          > the mahanta knows all, and therefore I felt this individual must
                          have some
                          > karmic issues he still needed to learn. (This is intended as
                          sarcasm!) No
                          > matter the level of initiation, or public responsibilities....
                          Still not my
                          > place to point this out to everyone.

                          I'm not sure what you are saying there. I don't believe in the
                          mahanta, so I obviously wouldn't think that way, even as a joke.

                          > "Marla PreTenderGasp"

                          Please explain why you are mocking my name. Do you doubt my motives
                          here?

                          > If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend,
                          > and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't
                          you feel
                          > some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least
                          report him
                          > to the RESA of the State?

                          Again, I don't believe in Eckankar and have no reason to go to the
                          RESA, whoever that is.

                          > I would even go as far as reporting this to the
                          > Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting
                          operation to
                          > capture and take these people off the streets. In turn this just
                          might get
                          > your ex caught with his pants down....
                          >

                          I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

                          > If this info is being shared as "SHOCK" factor against the
                          org.... Well I
                          > m not shocked, and could share many sex orgy stories that have
                          taken place
                          > for years amongst the eck membership that I am aware of! Who
                          cares? I
                          > think it is far more important to share the truth behind the lies,
                          > concerning the makings of this cult, and it's current spin Klump
                          and company
                          > continue to weave.

                          What I was sharing, which you apparently missed, is an experience
                          with a person who buys into the bullshit Eckankar spiritual
                          arrogance. And frankly I think that my story actually contributes to
                          the dialogue about "the truth behind the lies", because it
                          exemplifies the disingenuous nature of a "religion" that justifies
                          bad behavior under the rubric of spiritual growth.

                          > Let's move on to the Wisdom Notes as was intended as current topic
                          of choice
                          > by the ESA Moderator / Owner of this group! One last point,
                          sometimes a
                          > person scorned can spew a lot of nasty shit just to get it off
                          their chest.
                          > Maybe paying a counselor would help Marla get over the experience,
                          so she
                          > can move on and find a descent guy!
                          >
                          > Liz

                          I don't need a counselor, thanks. But you might want to
                          consult one to figure out why you felt the need to launch into a
                          personal attack on an individual who was merely trying to understand
                          her experience with an amoral Eckist.
                          >
                          >
                          > -------Original Message-------
                          >
                          > From: marlaprendergast
                          > Date: 6/25/2007 10:14:38 PM
                          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: integrity
                          >
                          > My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says
                          > he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he
                          keeps
                          > there for when he picks up hookers.
                          >
                        • prometheus_973
                          Hi Liz, I had just a few comments about this H.I. and ex boyfriend of Marla s and the whole topic. ... ### Well, it does kind of fall under the scorned woman
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 26, 2007
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                            Hi Liz,
                            I had just a few comments about this H.I. and
                            ex boyfriend of Marla's and the whole topic.

                            Liz wrote:
                            >
                            > I have been following along with this topic, and with all due respect to
                            > everyone here, I just really find this topic to be a dead issue!

                            ### I agree!


                            > Of course the subject title is integrity.... And I don't find anything
                            > wrong with a person having his / or her eck membership card in their wallet.
                            > Nor do I really care about the fact this individual has a condom right next
                            > to it! I think it is wise for this or any person to be using protection!

                            ### I also agree!

                            > What I do find interesting is the fact that an ex girlfriend is coming to
                            > these ex eck chat groups with an agenda that appears "to me" to be hearsay.
                            > When I broke up with one of my ex eck husbands, I could have taken the
                            > opportunity to really slam him within the circle of eck initiates, because
                            > he was a male wore! I had a little more integrity for myself, and
                            > refrained from bad mouthing him in public. Once it was over, it was over!
                            > No attempt to discredit him, no matter his status! After all, the eck and
                            > the mahanta knows all, and therefore I felt this individual must have some
                            > karmic issues he still needed to learn. (This is intended as sarcasm!) No
                            > matter the level of initiation, or public responsibilities.... Still not my
                            > place to point this out to everyone.

                            ### Well, it does kind of fall under the "scorned woman" category
                            in order to seek revenge for a bruised ego. And, afterall, he only claimed
                            to have been with a "hooker." Maybe this was said to get back at her for
                            something. One usually has to go to the more dangerous and seedy parts
                            of town for this service, unless, one calls an escort service and that gets
                            expensive... (and most Eckists are broke), or there are those X-rated massage
                            parlors. In any case it seems strange that he would brag about it to her,
                            unless, it wasn't true! He was probably just messing with her emotions
                            and mind (pushing her buttons).

                            > "Marla PreTenderGasp", If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend,
                            > and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't you feel
                            > some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least report him
                            > to the RESA of the State? I would even go as far as reporting this to the
                            > Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting operation to
                            > capture and take these people off the streets. In turn this just might get
                            > your ex caught with his pants down....

                            ### I'm not sure if "Marla" is "pretending" Not to "grasp" or what's
                            going on. One should know who the RESA is since her ex is an H.I.,
                            and/or one should know how to contact the RESA. Plenty of exs have
                            contacted RESAs in the past. I felt had to intervene for one person once
                            (a 5th ESA) that a jilted partner was trying to bring down. The RESA saw
                            to it that the ESA finally did get her 6th! I had talked with the ex-partner
                            and knew the story. Let's face it... these H.I.s (and Klemp) are no more
                            spiritual than the average Catholic priest or Protestant preacher, but neither
                            are those that accuse them of being unfaithful. Soul=Soul is just lip service
                            in Eckankar.

                            > If this info is being shared as "SHOCK" factor against the org.... Well I
                            > m not shocked, and could share many sex orgy stories that have taken place
                            > for years amongst the eck membership that I am aware of! Who cares? I
                            > think it is far more important to share the truth behind the lies,
                            > concerning the makings of this cult, and it's current spin Klump and company
                            > continue to weave.

                            ### True! What can be shared except this guy (H.I.) claiming to see a hooker
                            because his girlfriend wasn't what? These are just common relationship issues
                            and fighting between two people that weren't right for one another in the first
                            place.

                            > Let's move on to the Wisdom Notes as was intended as current topic of choice
                            > by the ESA Moderator / Owner of this group! One last point, sometimes a
                            > person scorned can spew a lot of nasty shit just to get it off their chest.
                            > Maybe paying a counselor would help Marla get over the experience, so she
                            > can move on and find a descent guy!

                            ### I would like to see the same. The past is interesting when we can connect
                            it to the present. In Twenty-Five years Klemp has done nothing to uplift the
                            spiritual consciousness of his members because HK Does Not have this awareness
                            himself.

                            I'm glad that Marla shared some of her story with us, but it would have been
                            nice to have had her perspective of Eckankar and the teachings without the
                            boyfriend's influence. Was it just the boyfriend that drew her to Eckankar,
                            or was it something else? What then?!


                            Prometheus


                            > From: marlaprendergast
                            > Re: integrity
                            >
                            > My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says
                            > he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he keeps
                            > there for when he picks up hookers.
                          • mishmisha9
                            Hi, Marla, Liz and All! If you don t mind, I have a few thoughts I d like to make regarding this dialogue. ... #####First, I didn t see Liz s post as an
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 26, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi, Marla, Liz and All!

                              If you don't mind, I have a few thoughts I'd like to make
                              regarding this dialogue.

                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                              "marlaprendergast" <kws11@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Wow, that was a really harsh and unecessary attack....Where do I
                              > begin?
                              >

                              #####First, I didn't see Liz's post as an attack, but it might have
                              been perceived as harsh--however, she did insert she was being sarcastic.
                              I saw it as an attempt to shock a bit. And by your (Marla's) reply
                              it seems that it did shock.

                              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ewickings"
                              > <ewickings@> wrote:
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Of course the subject title is integrity.... And I don't find
                              > anything
                              > > wrong with a person having his / or her eck membership card in
                              > their wallet.
                              > > Nor do I really care about the fact this individual has a condom
                              > right next
                              > > to it! I think it is wise for this or any person to be using
                              > protection!
                              >
                              > You are completely missing my point. I came on this forum to find
                              > out if there was a pervasive pattern in Eckankar of people
                              > justifying dishonest sleazy behavior by claiming that it led to
                              > their "spiritual unfoldment." I was in an allegedly committed
                              > relationship with this person who claimed to be a spiritually
                              > advanced HI Cleric and he was cheating on me with paid hookers. I
                              > was curious as to whether he just a fake Eckist, or whether Eckankar
                              > is fake.
                              >

                              ###Of course, the answer to whether Marla's boyfriend was a fake
                              eckist or whether eckankar is fake--just reading the archives here,
                              one would know that eckankar is a fake, phoney, made-up religion.
                              Are eckists fakes? Well, what they practice is a fake religion. The
                              cheating boyfriend is not unusual in eckankar membership, but
                              it isn't unusual in general society either. Does he use the eck teachings
                              to justify his "bad" behavior--well, yeah, he does, but again people
                              behaving badly usually look for excuses or a license for their
                              misbehavior. Again, people in other religions also do the same. So
                              I would say the ex-BF is a jerk and would be a jerk whether an
                              eckist or not. BTW, I think Klemp is a jerk too, because he is such
                              a liar and so dishonest! : )


                              > > What I do find interesting is the fact that an ex girlfriend is
                              > coming to
                              > > these ex eck chat groups with an agenda that appears "to me" to be
                              > hearsay.
                              > > When I broke up with one of my ex eck husbands, I could have taken
                              > the
                              > > opportunity to really slam him within the circle of eck initiates,
                              > because
                              > > he was a male wore! I had a little more integrity for myself, and
                              > > refrained from bad mouthing him in public.
                              >
                              > Please don't comment on my integrity. You don't even know me.
                              >

                              > > Once it was over, it was over!
                              > > No attempt to discredit him, no matter his status! After all, the
                              > eck and
                              > > the mahanta knows all, and therefore I felt this individual must
                              > have some
                              > > karmic issues he still needed to learn. (This is intended as
                              > sarcasm!) No
                              > > matter the level of initiation, or public responsibilities....
                              > Still not my
                              > > place to point this out to everyone.
                              >
                              > I'm not sure what you are saying there. I don't believe in the
                              > mahanta, so I obviously wouldn't think that way, even as a joke.
                              >

                              ### Marla, you're so fortunate that you had such a brief experience
                              with this eckist and that you didn't get hooked into the org. Good
                              that you don't believe in the mahanta!

                              > > "Marla PreTenderGasp"
                              >
                              > Please explain why you are mocking my name. Do you doubt my motives
                              > here?
                              >
                              > > If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend,
                              > > and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't
                              > you feel
                              > > some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least
                              > report him
                              > > to the RESA of the State?
                              >
                              > Again, I don't believe in Eckankar and have no reason to go to the
                              > RESA, whoever that is.

                              >
                              > > I would even go as far as reporting this to the
                              > > Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting
                              > operation to
                              > > capture and take these people off the streets. In turn this just
                              > might get
                              > > your ex caught with his pants down....
                              > >
                              >
                              > I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
                              >

                              ### Actually, I think Liz's advice here is a good one! Even if you didn't
                              want to contact his RESA (you could have found out who the RESA was,
                              or seems you would have known after a year??), then at least report
                              him to the police (if you knew where he was getting hooked). Could have
                              been a good wake up call for him--or as they say in eckankar a waking
                              dream! LOL!

                              > > If this info is being shared as "SHOCK" factor against the
                              > org.... Well I
                              > > m not shocked, and could share many sex orgy stories that have
                              > taken place
                              > > for years amongst the eck membership that I am aware of! Who
                              > cares? I
                              > > think it is far more important to share the truth behind the lies,
                              > > concerning the makings of this cult, and it's current spin Klump
                              > and company
                              > > continue to weave.
                              >
                              > What I was sharing, which you apparently missed, is an experience
                              > with a person who buys into the bullshit Eckankar spiritual
                              > arrogance. And frankly I think that my story actually contributes to
                              > the dialogue about "the truth behind the lies", because it
                              > exemplifies the disingenuous nature of a "religion" that justifies
                              > bad behavior under the rubric of spiritual growth.

                              ###Marla, your story does support that eckankar is a fake religion
                              and that chelas certainly are not necessarily moral. But I don't
                              think there is much more to add to your story--I mean, I didn't find
                              your post stating that your ex carried a condom next to his eck
                              ID card of interest to me. A lot of guys carry condoms around with
                              them. I just don't view that as awful--but the eck ID card, well,
                              that's a joke! : )

                              >
                              > > Let's move on to the Wisdom Notes as was intended as current topic
                              > of choice
                              > > by the ESA Moderator / Owner of this group! One last point,
                              > sometimes a
                              > > person scorned can spew a lot of nasty shit just to get it off
                              > their chest.
                              > > Maybe paying a counselor would help Marla get over the experience,
                              > so she
                              > > can move on and find a descent guy!
                              > >
                              > > Liz
                              >
                              > I don't need a counselor, thanks. But you might want to
                              > consult one to figure out why you felt the need to launch into a
                              > personal attack on an individual who was merely trying to understand
                              > her experience with an amoral Eckist.
                              > >

                              ###I don't think we are qualified to help you figure that out. I mean
                              even if you told us every detail of your relationship with this guy, I don't
                              think anyone here would want to help you walk through it to sort it out.
                              We are not therapists here. Since you seem so troubled by your
                              relationship with this eckist, I think seeking some professional help
                              is something you should consider. Seriously! I've done that myself and
                              have found it very helpful to work through some troubling issues. So once
                              again, I think Liz was giving you some good advice.

                              Best to all,
                              Mish

                              ###########################
                              > > -------Original Message-------
                              > >
                              > > From: marlaprendergast
                              > > Date: 6/25/2007 10:14:38 PM
                              > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: integrity
                              > >
                              > > My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says
                              > > he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he
                              > keeps
                              > > there for when he picks up hookers.
                              > >
                              >
                            • Non ekster
                              Actually, wasn t Klemp wearing a condom when he ran naked through the Airport. LOL Perhaps it is the condom custom of Eck. Anyway, there is a lot of sexual
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 27, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Actually, wasn't Klemp wearing a condom when he ran naked through the
                                Airport. LOL Perhaps it is the condom custom of Eck. Anyway, there is
                                a lot of sexual innuendo and hypocrisy in the ECKANKAR Org, a lot. If
                                this ESA is really Eck clergy then he should be reported for violating
                                state statutes having to do with pastoral counseling, depending on
                                what kind of relationships he had with other Eckists or recruits, etc.
                                LUST is after all a big no no in the ECKANKAR Org Religion. Yet sex
                                scandals are always bringing down the Religious High and Mighty
                                whether in Eckankar or other religions. All the fake eck masters in
                                the ECKANKAR Org. ended up dumping their wives for the secretary and
                                so on....., as well as the H.I.'s.

                                But why is Klemp so afraid of the Internet. WHy would a godman fear
                                opposing points of view. Hell, the early discourses and even now,
                                discouraged even reading books outside the ECKANKAR Org. Get as far
                                away from these deluded Cultists as you can. ANd unfortunately, often
                                some kind of Psychotherapy is helpful when having gone through a messy
                                relationship with an Eckist. By and large IMO the Nice Eckist is
                                really an oxymoron. They are manipulators. It is the nature of the beast.

                                nonekster ; )
                                #############

                                Re: integrity

                                Hi, Marla, Liz and All!

                                If you don't mind, I have a few thoughts I'd like to make
                                regarding this dialogue.

                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                                "marlaprendergast" <kws11@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Wow, that was a really harsh and unecessary attack....Where do I
                                > begin?
                                >

                                #####First, I didn't see Liz's post as an attack, but it might have
                                been perceived as harsh--however, she did insert she was being sarcastic.
                                I saw it as an attempt to shock a bit. And by your (Marla's) reply
                                it seems that it did shock.

                                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ewickings"
                                > <ewickings@> wrote:
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Of course the subject title is integrity.... And I don't find
                                > anything
                                > > wrong with a person having his / or her eck membership card in
                                > their wallet.
                                > > Nor do I really care about the fact this individual has a condom
                                > right next
                                > > to it! I think it is wise for this or any person to be using
                                > protection!
                                >
                                > You are completely missing my point. I came on this forum to find
                                > out if there was a pervasive pattern in Eckankar of people
                                > justifying dishonest sleazy behavior by claiming that it led to
                                > their "spiritual unfoldment." I was in an allegedly committed
                                > relationship with this person who claimed to be a spiritually
                                > advanced HI Cleric and he was cheating on me with paid hookers. I
                                > was curious as to whether he just a fake Eckist, or whether Eckankar
                                > is fake.
                                >

                                ###Of course, the answer to whether Marla's boyfriend was a fake
                                eckist or whether eckankar is fake--just reading the archives here,
                                one would know that eckankar is a fake, phoney, made-up religion.
                                Are eckists fakes? Well, what they practice is a fake religion. The
                                cheating boyfriend is not unusual in eckankar membership, but
                                it isn't unusual in general society either. Does he use the eck teachings
                                to justify his "bad" behavior--well, yeah, he does, but again people
                                behaving badly usually look for excuses or a license for their
                                misbehavior. Again, people in other religions also do the same. So
                                I would say the ex-BF is a jerk and would be a jerk whether an
                                eckist or not. BTW, I think Klemp is a jerk too, because he is such
                                a liar and so dishonest! : )


                                > > What I do find interesting is the fact that an ex girlfriend is
                                > coming to
                                > > these ex eck chat groups with an agenda that appears "to me" to be
                                > hearsay.
                                > > When I broke up with one of my ex eck husbands, I could have taken
                                > the
                                > > opportunity to really slam him within the circle of eck initiates,
                                > because
                                > > he was a male wore! I had a little more integrity for myself, and
                                > > refrained from bad mouthing him in public.
                                >
                                > Please don't comment on my integrity. You don't even know me.
                                >

                                > > Once it was over, it was over!
                                > > No attempt to discredit him, no matter his status! After all, the
                                > eck and
                                > > the mahanta knows all, and therefore I felt this individual must
                                > have some
                                > > karmic issues he still needed to learn. (This is intended as
                                > sarcasm!) No
                                > > matter the level of initiation, or public responsibilities....
                                > Still not my
                                > > place to point this out to everyone.
                                >
                                > I'm not sure what you are saying there. I don't believe in the
                                > mahanta, so I obviously wouldn't think that way, even as a joke.
                                >

                                ### Marla, you're so fortunate that you had such a brief experience
                                with this eckist and that you didn't get hooked into the org. Good
                                that you don't believe in the mahanta!

                                > > "Marla PreTenderGasp"
                                >
                                > Please explain why you are mocking my name. Do you doubt my motives
                                > here?
                                >
                                > > If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend,
                                > > and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't
                                > you feel
                                > > some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least
                                > report him
                                > > to the RESA of the State?
                                >
                                > Again, I don't believe in Eckankar and have no reason to go to the
                                > RESA, whoever that is.

                                >
                                > > I would even go as far as reporting this to the
                                > > Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting
                                > operation to
                                > > capture and take these people off the streets. In turn this just
                                > might get
                                > > your ex caught with his pants down....
                                > >
                                >
                                > I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
                                >

                                ### Actually, I think Liz's advice here is a good one! Even if you didn't
                                want to contact his RESA (you could have found out who the RESA was,
                                or seems you would have known after a year??), then at least report
                                him to the police (if you knew where he was getting hooked). Could have
                                been a good wake up call for him--or as they say in eckankar a waking
                                dream! LOL!

                                > > If this info is being shared as "SHOCK" factor against the
                                > org.... Well I
                                > > m not shocked, and could share many sex orgy stories that have
                                > taken place
                                > > for years amongst the eck membership that I am aware of! Who
                                > cares? I
                                > > think it is far more important to share the truth behind the lies,
                                > > concerning the makings of this cult, and it's current spin Klump
                                > and company
                                > > continue to weave.
                                >
                                > What I was sharing, which you apparently missed, is an experience
                                > with a person who buys into the bullshit Eckankar spiritual
                                > arrogance. And frankly I think that my story actually contributes to
                                > the dialogue about "the truth behind the lies", because it
                                > exemplifies the disingenuous nature of a "religion" that justifies
                                > bad behavior under the rubric of spiritual growth.

                                ###Marla, your story does support that eckankar is a fake religion
                                and that chelas certainly are not necessarily moral. But I don't
                                think there is much more to add to your story--I mean, I didn't find
                                your post stating that your ex carried a condom next to his eck
                                ID card of interest to me. A lot of guys carry condoms around with
                                them. I just don't view that as awful--but the eck ID card, well,
                                that's a joke! : )

                                >
                                > > Let's move on to the Wisdom Notes as was intended as current topic
                                > of choice
                                > > by the ESA Moderator / Owner of this group! One last point,
                                > sometimes a
                                > > person scorned can spew a lot of nasty shit just to get it off
                                > their chest.
                                > > Maybe paying a counselor would help Marla get over the experience,
                                > so she
                                > > can move on and find a descent guy!
                                > >
                                > > Liz
                                >
                                > I don't need a counselor, thanks. But you might want to
                                > consult one to figure out why you felt the need to launch into a
                                > personal attack on an individual who was merely trying to understand
                                > her experience with an amoral Eckist.
                                > >

                                ###I don't think we are qualified to help you figure that out. I mean
                                even if you told us every detail of your relationship with this guy, I
                                don't
                                think anyone here would want to help you walk through it to sort it out.
                                We are not therapists here. Since you seem so troubled by your
                                relationship with this eckist, I think seeking some professional help
                                is something you should consider. Seriously! I've done that myself and
                                have found it very helpful to work through some troubling issues. So once
                                again, I think Liz was giving you some good advice.

                                Best to all,
                                Mish

                                ###########################
                                > > -------Original Message-------
                                > >
                                > > From: marlaprendergast
                                > > Date: 6/25/2007 10:14:38 PM
                                > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: integrity
                                > >
                                > > My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that says
                                > > he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he
                                > keeps
                                > > there for when he picks up hookers.
                                > >
                                >
                              • tomleafeater
                                ... that I ... Eckists ... one ... I ... ESA ... an ... of ... suppose ... You re fortunate to have had a good experience with the so-called Eck Spiritual Aid.
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 27, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlaprendergast"
                                  <kws11@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Funny you mentioned that. The day before we broke up I told him
                                  that I
                                  > likened his behavior to Jim Jones and David Koresh. I can't tell by
                                  > the smattering of Eck events that I went to whether his fellow
                                  Eckists
                                  > would agree with his lifestyle. I do know however that there was
                                  one
                                  > Eckist that I met that was so kind and wonderful that in retrospect
                                  I
                                  > wonder how she ever got mixed up in all that nonsense. She was an
                                  ESA
                                  > that he took me to a few weeks ago. She sat and talked with me for
                                  an
                                  > hour and it was great, a free therapy session! She didn't spew any
                                  of
                                  > the nonsense that I have heard from him. I'm curious, what level
                                  > initiate do you have to be to be an Eck Spiritual Advisor? I
                                  suppose
                                  > she could have just been BSing me. He was always trying to bring me
                                  > into the fold and I think if anyone met with her they would join up
                                  > immediately.
                                  >


                                  You're fortunate to have had a good experience with the so-called Eck
                                  Spiritual Aid. Many former eckists have reported that the sessions
                                  can be very manipulative and self-serving to the eckankar agenda. And
                                  frankly, these sessions often do resemble an attempt at therapy, even
                                  though eckankar policy states them to not have such a function. Yet,
                                  in eckankar as well as many other religions, the clerics truly are
                                  sought out for exactly that purspose, whether it is admitted to or
                                  not by the particular church.

                                  By the way, the ESA's/RESA's do not have ANY training in therapy, and
                                  are not exactly the people to turn to if you, as a non-member in a
                                  relationship with an sixth initiate, have a complaint about an
                                  eckankar high initiate. Your sixth initiate boyfriend would simply
                                  tell them a bunch of BS about you in his own aid session with the
                                  ESA, and then the whole matter would very likely be dropped by the
                                  ESA or RESA and be soon forgetten (I've witnessed such events unfold
                                  in exactly such a manner). In my experience, the ESA/RESA will tend,
                                  in most circumstances, to side with the organization, which, again,
                                  doesn't like to intervene at all in personal issues of families. They
                                  would likely say YOU have some problem (victim consciousness), rather
                                  than take your word against that of a sixth initiate. So, going to
                                  the org for help, such as to ESA's and RESA's, would likely have
                                  disappointed you.

                                  Leafeater




                                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
                                  > <zoey_true@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > i was reading marla's post concerning her ex-boyfriend's lack of
                                  > > integrity. it reminds me of jim jones, david koresh, etc etc.
                                  the
                                  > > followers of those men overlooked all manner of decadence and
                                  > > indecency - they overlooked believing that their leader was above
                                  > the
                                  > > common man, not subject to the moral behavior expected of other
                                  men.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Elizabeth
                                  ... *** I ll give you that much Marla... and then I would also ask you this; Did you go to any of the Eckankar sites and ask this of their members? There
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 28, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlaprendergast"
                                    <kws11@...> wrote:

                                    > You are completely missing my point. I came on this forum to find
                                    > out if there was a pervasive pattern in Eckankar of people
                                    > justifying dishonest sleazy behavior by claiming that it led to
                                    > their "spiritual unfoldment."


                                    *** I'll give you that much Marla... and then I would also ask you
                                    this; Did you go to any of the Eckankar sites and ask this of their
                                    members? There are several HIs that frequent Hu-chat, I bet you
                                    could ask them that same question you came to the ex eck sites and
                                    asked. :-) Let us know how that goes....



                                    > I was in an allegedly committed
                                    > relationship with this person who claimed to be a spiritually
                                    > advanced HI Cleric and he was cheating on me with paid hookers. I
                                    > was curious as to whether he just a fake Eckist, or whether
                                    Eckankar
                                    > is fake.


                                    *** It wasn't all that long ago when a well known TV evangelical
                                    christian was exposed for hiring gay hooker / hookers, and had
                                    previously claimed it was an immoral type of behavior and sinfull.
                                    Now I ask you, what makes that guy, and your ex any different? It
                                    happens all the time!


                                    > Please don't comment on my integrity. You don't even know me.

                                    *** I was commenting on my integrity.

                                    And by the way, "Zoey" doesn't know me or any of my ex eck husbands!
                                    (All 2 of them) That is because they were nobodies in the eck
                                    community! Most all of the eckists in the community didn't know
                                    them, since they (the ex husbands) very rarely (if at all)
                                    participated in ANY functions! Dropping a name or a comment/s that
                                    they think will give the impression they KNOW something about me or
                                    my life, doesn't effect me in the slightest!

                                    How hard is it to create a fake ID, go to the ex eck chat groups, or
                                    a.r.e., read other peoples comments concerning eckankrap, then call
                                    it their own! Here is an example; Sharon from ET has shared how
                                    Cheryl Grundy doesn't know an SK quote, from a made up one. My
                                    point; Zoey came here to ESA not too many months ago claiming the
                                    very same thing, same story nearly word for word, or was that fishnik
                                    (?) however s/he spelled their fake ID? Or hey here is a scenerio,
                                    maybe Zoey is Sharon? ;-)))) Sharon I hope you are reading this!?
                                    LOL

                                    So how is that workin for you Zoey_true? OR shall we call you
                                    Cheryl, or maybe it's Rich?



                                    > I'm not sure what you are saying there. I don't believe in the
                                    > mahanta, so I obviously wouldn't think that way, even as a joke.


                                    *** I wasn't joking, I was pointing out how the HIs and eckies excuse
                                    away their own behavior! I have even heard other eckies question how
                                    on earth Harold could appoint so and so as an ESA, when all she was
                                    was a slut, stealing other eck women's husbands. LOL The comment by
                                    the RESA was, "well, maybe the LEM feels this position will teach her
                                    an important lesson concerning her own behavior, or maybe she still
                                    has some karma to work off in that area"! (I kid you not!)


                                    > > "Marla PreTenderGasp"
                                    >
                                    > Please explain why you are mocking my name. Do you doubt my motives
                                    > here?


                                    *** Honestly? Yes. Especially the fact that you comment about your
                                    ex keeping his membership card right next to the condom.... was that
                                    important to you? The fact that the membership card is slipped in
                                    with the condom? And if so, why does that particular point bother
                                    you? How about sharing your history with this individual prior to
                                    the break up.... how were you impacted by his being an eck member,
                                    and why did you buy into thinking he was somebody special just
                                    because he was an HI, and his membership card said so. Did your ex
                                    boyfriend lead you to believe he was some super special person within
                                    the organization? How did you come to understand what an HI even
                                    represents, and did you look up to your boyfriend? Had you ever heard
                                    of Eckankar prior to meeting your HI boyfriend?

                                    You wrote: I was in an allegedly committed relationship with this
                                    person who claimed to be a spiritually advanced HI Cleric and he was
                                    cheating on me with paid hookers. I was curious as to whether he was
                                    just a fake Eckist, or whether Eckankar is fake.


                                    *** Now why would you question whether Eckankar was fake? Did you
                                    begin to buy into the BS? Did you do any investigating of the
                                    teachings before breaking it off with your ex boyfriend? Or did you
                                    break it off because of the comment he made about paying hookers.....


                                    I wrote:
                                    > If you felt so upset about this ex HI boyfriend,
                                    > > and had information that he is / was frequenting hookers, don't
                                    > you feel
                                    > > some sort of obligation to the community of eckies, to at least
                                    > report him
                                    > > to the RESA of the State?
                                    >
                                    > Again, I don't believe in Eckankar and have no reason to go to the
                                    > RESA, whoever that is.


                                    *** A question; If you were with this guy for a year, I assume you
                                    attended eck functions? Got to know some of the members... did you
                                    believe in eckankrap then, or just going along with it because you
                                    cared about the this guy?

                                    I wrote:
                                    > > I would even go as far as reporting this to the
                                    > > Law Enforcement agency, so that they might set up a sting
                                    > operation to
                                    > > capture and take these people off the streets. In turn this just
                                    > might get
                                    > > your ex caught with his pants down....
                                    > >


                                    You wrote:
                                    > I'm not sure what you are getting at here.


                                    *** It is very self explanitory what I was getting at. The guy was
                                    breaking a law! If you were that concerned about him having done this
                                    to you, (and trying to find out if he is for real or if eck is fake),
                                    report his actions so the Law Enforcement and get these people off
                                    the street! And in the process, they might catch him with his pants
                                    down... in other words, in a compromising possition!



                                    > What I was sharing, which you apparently missed, is an experience
                                    > with a person who buys into the bullshit Eckankar spiritual
                                    > arrogance. And frankly I think that my story actually contributes
                                    to
                                    > the dialogue about "the truth behind the lies", because it
                                    > exemplifies the disingenuous nature of a "religion" that justifies
                                    > bad behavior under the rubric of spiritual growth.


                                    *** So did you come to this conclussion before or after the ex bf? I
                                    didn't miss your point, just wondering how you came to it? How would
                                    you know how an HI is suppose to behave? I'm wondering what the wife
                                    of that famous christian that got ratted out by his ex gay lover,
                                    feels? Does she think he is still spiritual or higher than anyone
                                    else? Did this guy have the same arrogance as your ex bf? It will
                                    be interesting to hear her side of the story! Wonder if she will
                                    attempt to fix her marriage, or research and bash him? No disrespect
                                    here intended really, though I am sure Leaf can't wait to get ahold
                                    of me! ;-) All these questions are intended to allow you the chance
                                    to enlighten others of your experience.


                                    You wrote:
                                    > I don't need a counselor, thanks. But you might want to
                                    > consult one to figure out why you felt the need to launch into a
                                    > personal attack on an individual who was merely trying to
                                    > understand her experience with an amoral Eckist.


                                    *** Did you ask him to clarify his amoral eckist behavior? Did you
                                    point out you didn't feel solisiting hookers was very spiritual?
                                    Really, I would like to know what he may or may not have said to
                                    these questions!?


                                    You originally wrote:
                                    > > -------Original Message-------
                                    > >
                                    > > From: marlaprendergast
                                    > > Date: 6/25/2007 10:14:38 PM
                                    > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: integrity
                                    > >
                                    > > My ex-BF is a cleric as well. He has a card in his wallet that
                                    says
                                    > > he's a clergy member. The card is right up against a condom he
                                    > keeps
                                    > > there for when he picks up hookers.


                                    *** To be honest I am surprised he didn't claim he was paying these
                                    hookers, so he could get them in a room and give them an introductory
                                    talk on eckankrap! ;-)

                                    By The Way Zoey, for your info I am one of the moderators of this
                                    group! So don't blame Prometheus for everything that goes on here!
                                    How's that workin for you Zoey?

                                    Oh, and before I forget; Welcome to the group Rowan_oak22...
                                    interesting that you just created your account the very day Zoey left
                                    us! See how spirit works? One leaves and we are replaced with
                                    another member. :-) Wonder if this is a waking dream?

                                    Liz,
                                    Who was a 6th, Initiator and ESA, and a member for over 30 years,
                                    both parents work/ed at ESC and know Joan and Harold personally. BTW,
                                    I was actually invited back to the teaching! ;-) So much for your
                                    threats Zoey!
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