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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] My Romance with an Eckist

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  • Ed Kusi
    Hi, I think your ex found validation for his behaviour with some of the teachings of Eckankar. And that validation is based on the erroneous idea that once you
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 21, 2007
      Hi,
      I think your ex found validation for his behaviour with some of the teachings of Eckankar. And that validation is based on the erroneous idea that once you receive the bogus Eckankar initiation tag, then your spiritual status is confirmed as being very high. Why, his behaviour in some respects even mirrors that of Paul Twitchell, the founder of Eckankar, whom the present leader describes as being a 'rascal'..
      Pretujari

      marlasobbing <kws11@...> wrote:
      I just broke up with my boyfriend of one year. He has been a member
      of Eckankar for 30 years. The reason we broke up is that I just
      could not take his lack of integrity any longer.

      He told me that he has been cheating on me for several months and
      that he even paid a hooker for sex while I was out of town for my
      mother's funeral. As long as I've known him he has always had issues
      of dishonesty.

      Nevertheless he says he is a 6th initiate and highly spiritual. He
      claims that we are incompatible because I am spiritually bereft (I
      am basicaly a lapsed Catholic who believes in following the 10
      Commandments) . He says on a spiritual scale of 1-10 that he is a 7
      but I am a 5.

      I point out that he is dishonest both personally and professionally
      (He repeatedly plagiarizes other people's work). He defends his
      decisions by saying I am locked into conventional notions of
      morality and that everything he does leads him on his path to
      spiritual unfoldment. He uses Eckankar to justify some really bad
      behavior. Furthermore he completely lacks compassion for others. He
      denounces this as "attachment" and that's why he does not empathize
      whatsoever.

      So my question is, is my ex-boyfriend just an undesireable person or
      are his behaviors consistent with Eckankar's tenets?



      Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
      Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

    • tomleafeater
      Hi Marla, I ve read most of the posts that pertain to your posted experience with your boyfriend, and though I ve not posted here in awhile, I think yours
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 27, 2007
        Hi Marla,

        I've read most of the posts that pertain to your posted experience
        with your boyfriend, and though I've not posted here in awhile, I
        think yours merits a response. As I understand your question, you are
        wondering if eckankar in some way fosters unethical personal behavior
        in its members, or at least provides convenient rationales for
        excusing less-than-desirable personal behavior, if I may rephrase
        some things you wrote a bit.

        The answer, in my view, is yes. There are many reasons for this. One
        reason involves the fact that eckists are led to think they have
        reached extraordinarily high states of spiritual awareness,
        especially when they are handed the higher initiations, which are
        said by eck doctrine to lift them to states far beyond the world's
        historical saviors. Of course, most of us know this isn't at all
        true, but the misled eckist ends up with a dilemma with this belief,
        because since they are not at all so advanced, they are under
        tremendous pressure from the group (and from their own desires to
        think they've achieved such states) to somehow live up to the
        standards of saintly behavior, which, of course, they aren't likely
        to accomplish, since they are as flawed as any average person in the
        world.

        To convince themselves they've truly become the high initiates
        they've been told they are, they invent rationales to excuse their
        peccadilloes and little transgressions, so that when their all-to-
        frequent episodes of human shortcomings surface, they can simply say
        something such as, "it was the karma of my wife to experience me
        having an affair," or, "I'm still working off some left over old
        karma, and I had to have the experience."

        There are many possible examples of eckankar teachings being used to
        justify just about anything. Welcome to life as it commonly is lived
        in eckankar. Your story is not an unusual one at all. That you say
        YOU observed this in your sixth initiate boyfirend is yet another
        substantiation of what so many others have stated about eckankar. You
        were astute to have caught on so quickly.

        The archives at A.R.E., another eckankar discussion site, is filled
        to the brim with posts by eckists excusing plagiary, lying,
        fabricating fictional histories, all replete with vacillations,
        obfuscations, control tactics, and blatant contradictions. With such
        dissembling behavior so common in the upper echelons of eckankar, it
        should be no surprise that this behavior has found its way into the
        entire culture of eckankar over the decades, becoming a cultural meme
        passed on from one generation to the next.

        High Initiates sometimes become the worst examples of these
        behaviors, because they really think they're these high beings that
        are finished with most of their karma and that they've passed the
        tests to become the sanctified, self-realized or god-realized soul.
        So, naturally, they excuse or write off any behavior that would
        suggest they aren't who they think they are. They find all sorts of
        excuses to dismiss their callousness, or their indifference, calling
        it instead "detachment."

        They might call your complaints about their behavior or your natural
        expression of personal hurt to be the handy, ever-present putdown so
        often used in eckankar, known as "victim consciousness," which is yet
        another way of invalidating your comments and validating their own.
        People love the "victim consciousness" mantra until the shoe is on
        the other foot, in which case it then suddenly becomes rephrased as a
        noble effort to expose the truth.

        People can dwell on problems too much, but getting in touch with your
        natural, human emotions, as well as expressing them, without
        embarrassment or shame, can be and often is a healthy, balanced,
        healing thing to do. As a health professional, I can attest that
        repression of pain and hurt is one of the most unhealthy of all
        behaviors. Yet, notice that few of the self-described "spiritual"
        folks ever mention that. So sob all you want, Marla. Get it out of
        your system. Keeping emotion inside, all wrapped up and repressed, is
        not really detachment at all. Once I realized just how deeply
        indoctrinated I'd become as an eckist, I once cried some tears, and
        it felt good to release it.

        To my knowledge, you've not mentioned the name of your boyfriend
        (thankfully), so there is no harm in what you've posted about him.
        And in the many years I spent in eckankar, I dare say your experience
        isn't unusual. For example, one high profile, prominent seventh
        initiate beat his wife, who actually referred in vague terms to the
        beatings in a talk she gave at a major seminar. Instead of the
        seventh initiate having to explain himself, it was, sadly, the wife
        who was criticized for airing her dirty laundry, even though
        only "insiders" would have known what she was referring to. Eckankar
        doesn't like dirty laundry to be aired. And such habits die hard, and
        may continue even after people leave the path behind. Such is the
        insidious way of religious indoctrination.

        Leafeater (former sixth initiate, and 28 year member of eckankar
        who ate the leaf and left)


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlasobbing"
        <kws11@...> wrote:
        >
        > I just broke up with my boyfriend of one year. He has been a member
        > of Eckankar for 30 years. The reason we broke up is that I just
        > could not take his lack of integrity any longer.

        > He told me that he has been cheating on me for several months and
        > that he even paid a hooker for sex while I was out of town for my
        > mother's funeral. As long as I've known him he has always had
        issues
        > of dishonesty.
        >
        > Nevertheless he says he is a 6th initiate and highly spiritual. He
        > claims that we are incompatible because I am spiritually bereft (I
        > am basicaly a lapsed Catholic who believes in following the 10
        > Commandments). He says on a spiritual scale of 1-10 that he is a 7
        > but I am a 5.
        >
        > I point out that he is dishonest both personally and professionally
        > (He repeatedly plagiarizes other people's work). He defends his
        > decisions by saying I am locked into conventional notions of
        > morality and that everything he does leads him on his path to
        > spiritual unfoldment. He uses Eckankar to justify some really bad
        > behavior. Furthermore he completely lacks compassion for others. He
        > denounces this as "attachment" and that's why he does not empathize
        > whatsoever.
        >
        > So my question is, is my ex-boyfriend just an undesireable person
        or
        > are his behaviors consistent with Eckankar's tenets?
      • marlaprendergast
        Thank you so much for your post, tomleafeater. You have pegged my experience to a T . What you described is exactly the way it went. Its almost if you had
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 27, 2007
          Thank you so much for your post, tomleafeater. You have pegged my
          experience to a "T". What you described is exactly the way it went.
          Its almost if you had been there with me every day the past year. I
          am still trying to sort all of this out and your post has really
          helped me.

          Thanks again,

          Marla.

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
          <tianyue@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Marla,
          >
          > I've read most of the posts that pertain to your posted experience
          > with your boyfriend, and though I've not posted here in awhile, I
          > think yours merits a response. As I understand your question, you
          are
          > wondering if eckankar in some way fosters unethical personal
          behavior
          > in its members, or at least provides convenient rationales for
          > excusing less-than-desirable personal behavior, if I may rephrase
          > some things you wrote a bit.
          >
          > The answer, in my view, is yes. There are many reasons for this.
          One
          > reason involves the fact that eckists are led to think they have
          > reached extraordinarily high states of spiritual awareness,
          > especially when they are handed the higher initiations, which are
          > said by eck doctrine to lift them to states far beyond the world's
          > historical saviors. Of course, most of us know this isn't at all
          > true, but the misled eckist ends up with a dilemma with this
          belief,
          > because since they are not at all so advanced, they are under
          > tremendous pressure from the group (and from their own desires to
          > think they've achieved such states) to somehow live up to the
          > standards of saintly behavior, which, of course, they aren't
          likely
          > to accomplish, since they are as flawed as any average person in
          the
          > world.
          >
          > To convince themselves they've truly become the high initiates
          > they've been told they are, they invent rationales to excuse their
          > peccadilloes and little transgressions, so that when their all-to-
          > frequent episodes of human shortcomings surface, they can simply
          say
          > something such as, "it was the karma of my wife to experience me
          > having an affair," or, "I'm still working off some left over old
          > karma, and I had to have the experience."
          >
          > There are many possible examples of eckankar teachings being used
          to
          > justify just about anything. Welcome to life as it commonly is
          lived
          > in eckankar. Your story is not an unusual one at all. That you say
          > YOU observed this in your sixth initiate boyfirend is yet another
          > substantiation of what so many others have stated about eckankar.
          You
          > were astute to have caught on so quickly.
          >
          > The archives at A.R.E., another eckankar discussion site, is
          filled
          > to the brim with posts by eckists excusing plagiary, lying,
          > fabricating fictional histories, all replete with vacillations,
          > obfuscations, control tactics, and blatant contradictions. With
          such
          > dissembling behavior so common in the upper echelons of eckankar,
          it
          > should be no surprise that this behavior has found its way into
          the
          > entire culture of eckankar over the decades, becoming a cultural
          meme
          > passed on from one generation to the next.
          >
          > High Initiates sometimes become the worst examples of these
          > behaviors, because they really think they're these high beings
          that
          > are finished with most of their karma and that they've passed the
          > tests to become the sanctified, self-realized or god-realized
          soul.
          > So, naturally, they excuse or write off any behavior that would
          > suggest they aren't who they think they are. They find all sorts
          of
          > excuses to dismiss their callousness, or their indifference,
          calling
          > it instead "detachment."
          >
          > They might call your complaints about their behavior or your
          natural
          > expression of personal hurt to be the handy, ever-present putdown
          so
          > often used in eckankar, known as "victim consciousness," which is
          yet
          > another way of invalidating your comments and validating their
          own.
          > People love the "victim consciousness" mantra until the shoe is on
          > the other foot, in which case it then suddenly becomes rephrased
          as a
          > noble effort to expose the truth.
          >
          > People can dwell on problems too much, but getting in touch with
          your
          > natural, human emotions, as well as expressing them, without
          > embarrassment or shame, can be and often is a healthy, balanced,
          > healing thing to do. As a health professional, I can attest that
          > repression of pain and hurt is one of the most unhealthy of all
          > behaviors. Yet, notice that few of the self-described "spiritual"
          > folks ever mention that. So sob all you want, Marla. Get it out of
          > your system. Keeping emotion inside, all wrapped up and repressed,
          is
          > not really detachment at all. Once I realized just how deeply
          > indoctrinated I'd become as an eckist, I once cried some tears,
          and
          > it felt good to release it.
          >
          > To my knowledge, you've not mentioned the name of your boyfriend
          > (thankfully), so there is no harm in what you've posted about him.
          > And in the many years I spent in eckankar, I dare say your
          experience
          > isn't unusual. For example, one high profile, prominent seventh
          > initiate beat his wife, who actually referred in vague terms to
          the
          > beatings in a talk she gave at a major seminar. Instead of the
          > seventh initiate having to explain himself, it was, sadly, the
          wife
          > who was criticized for airing her dirty laundry, even though
          > only "insiders" would have known what she was referring to.
          Eckankar
          > doesn't like dirty laundry to be aired. And such habits die hard,
          and
          > may continue even after people leave the path behind. Such is the
          > insidious way of religious indoctrination.
          >
          > Leafeater (former sixth initiate, and 28 year member of eckankar
          > who ate the leaf and left)
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlasobbing"
          > <kws11@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I just broke up with my boyfriend of one year. He has been a
          member
          > > of Eckankar for 30 years. The reason we broke up is that I just
          > > could not take his lack of integrity any longer.
          >
          > > He told me that he has been cheating on me for several months
          and
          > > that he even paid a hooker for sex while I was out of town for
          my
          > > mother's funeral. As long as I've known him he has always had
          > issues
          > > of dishonesty.
          > >
          > > Nevertheless he says he is a 6th initiate and highly spiritual.
          He
          > > claims that we are incompatible because I am spiritually bereft
          (I
          > > am basicaly a lapsed Catholic who believes in following the 10
          > > Commandments). He says on a spiritual scale of 1-10 that he is a
          7
          > > but I am a 5.
          > >
          > > I point out that he is dishonest both personally and
          professionally
          > > (He repeatedly plagiarizes other people's work). He defends his
          > > decisions by saying I am locked into conventional notions of
          > > morality and that everything he does leads him on his path to
          > > spiritual unfoldment. He uses Eckankar to justify some really
          bad
          > > behavior. Furthermore he completely lacks compassion for others.
          He
          > > denounces this as "attachment" and that's why he does not
          empathize
          > > whatsoever.
          > >
          > > So my question is, is my ex-boyfriend just an undesireable
          person
          > or
          > > are his behaviors consistent with Eckankar's tenets?
          >
        • tomleafeater
          ... My pleasure, Marla. I supposed I ve been around and around the eckankar block way too many times, and have seen more than my share of these kind of things
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 27, 2007
            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlaprendergast"
            <kws11@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you so much for your post, tomleafeater. You have pegged my
            > experience to a "T". What you described is exactly the way it went.
            > Its almost if you had been there with me every day the past year. I
            > am still trying to sort all of this out and your post has really
            > helped me.
            >
            > Thanks again,
            >
            > Marla.
            >

            My pleasure, Marla. I supposed I've been around and around the
            eckankar block way too many times, and have seen more than my share
            of these kind of things over the years.

            Leaf



            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
            > <tianyue@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Marla,
            > >
            > > I've read most of the posts that pertain to your posted
            experience
            > > with your boyfriend, and though I've not posted here in awhile, I
            > > think yours merits a response. As I understand your question, you
            > are
            > > wondering if eckankar in some way fosters unethical personal
            > behavior
            > > in its members, or at least provides convenient rationales for
            > > excusing less-than-desirable personal behavior, if I may rephrase
            > > some things you wrote a bit.
            > >
            > > The answer, in my view, is yes. There are many reasons for this.
            > One
            > > reason involves the fact that eckists are led to think they have
            > > reached extraordinarily high states of spiritual awareness,
            > > especially when they are handed the higher initiations, which are
            > > said by eck doctrine to lift them to states far beyond the
            world's
            > > historical saviors. Of course, most of us know this isn't at all
            > > true, but the misled eckist ends up with a dilemma with this
            > belief,
            > > because since they are not at all so advanced, they are under
            > > tremendous pressure from the group (and from their own desires to
            > > think they've achieved such states) to somehow live up to the
            > > standards of saintly behavior, which, of course, they aren't
            > likely
            > > to accomplish, since they are as flawed as any average person in
            > the
            > > world.
            > >
            > > To convince themselves they've truly become the high initiates
            > > they've been told they are, they invent rationales to excuse
            their
            > > peccadilloes and little transgressions, so that when their all-to-
            > > frequent episodes of human shortcomings surface, they can simply
            > say
            > > something such as, "it was the karma of my wife to experience me
            > > having an affair," or, "I'm still working off some left over old
            > > karma, and I had to have the experience."
            > >
            > > There are many possible examples of eckankar teachings being used
            > to
            > > justify just about anything. Welcome to life as it commonly is
            > lived
            > > in eckankar. Your story is not an unusual one at all. That you
            say
            > > YOU observed this in your sixth initiate boyfirend is yet another
            > > substantiation of what so many others have stated about eckankar.
            > You
            > > were astute to have caught on so quickly.
            > >
            > > The archives at A.R.E., another eckankar discussion site, is
            > filled
            > > to the brim with posts by eckists excusing plagiary, lying,
            > > fabricating fictional histories, all replete with vacillations,
            > > obfuscations, control tactics, and blatant contradictions. With
            > such
            > > dissembling behavior so common in the upper echelons of eckankar,
            > it
            > > should be no surprise that this behavior has found its way into
            > the
            > > entire culture of eckankar over the decades, becoming a cultural
            > meme
            > > passed on from one generation to the next.
            > >
            > > High Initiates sometimes become the worst examples of these
            > > behaviors, because they really think they're these high beings
            > that
            > > are finished with most of their karma and that they've passed the
            > > tests to become the sanctified, self-realized or god-realized
            > soul.
            > > So, naturally, they excuse or write off any behavior that would
            > > suggest they aren't who they think they are. They find all sorts
            > of
            > > excuses to dismiss their callousness, or their indifference,
            > calling
            > > it instead "detachment."
            > >
            > > They might call your complaints about their behavior or your
            > natural
            > > expression of personal hurt to be the handy, ever-present putdown
            > so
            > > often used in eckankar, known as "victim consciousness," which is
            > yet
            > > another way of invalidating your comments and validating their
            > own.
            > > People love the "victim consciousness" mantra until the shoe is
            on
            > > the other foot, in which case it then suddenly becomes rephrased
            > as a
            > > noble effort to expose the truth.
            > >
            > > People can dwell on problems too much, but getting in touch with
            > your
            > > natural, human emotions, as well as expressing them, without
            > > embarrassment or shame, can be and often is a healthy, balanced,
            > > healing thing to do. As a health professional, I can attest that
            > > repression of pain and hurt is one of the most unhealthy of all
            > > behaviors. Yet, notice that few of the self-described "spiritual"
            > > folks ever mention that. So sob all you want, Marla. Get it out
            of
            > > your system. Keeping emotion inside, all wrapped up and
            repressed,
            > is
            > > not really detachment at all. Once I realized just how deeply
            > > indoctrinated I'd become as an eckist, I once cried some tears,
            > and
            > > it felt good to release it.
            > >
            > > To my knowledge, you've not mentioned the name of your boyfriend
            > > (thankfully), so there is no harm in what you've posted about
            him.
            > > And in the many years I spent in eckankar, I dare say your
            > experience
            > > isn't unusual. For example, one high profile, prominent seventh
            > > initiate beat his wife, who actually referred in vague terms to
            > the
            > > beatings in a talk she gave at a major seminar. Instead of the
            > > seventh initiate having to explain himself, it was, sadly, the
            > wife
            > > who was criticized for airing her dirty laundry, even though
            > > only "insiders" would have known what she was referring to.
            > Eckankar
            > > doesn't like dirty laundry to be aired. And such habits die hard,
            > and
            > > may continue even after people leave the path behind. Such is the
            > > insidious way of religious indoctrination.
            > >
            > > Leafeater (former sixth initiate, and 28 year member of
            eckankar
            > > who ate the leaf and left)
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "marlasobbing"
            > > <kws11@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I just broke up with my boyfriend of one year. He has been a
            > member
            > > > of Eckankar for 30 years. The reason we broke up is that I just
            > > > could not take his lack of integrity any longer.
            > >
            > > > He told me that he has been cheating on me for several months
            > and
            > > > that he even paid a hooker for sex while I was out of town for
            > my
            > > > mother's funeral. As long as I've known him he has always had
            > > issues
            > > > of dishonesty.
            > > >
            > > > Nevertheless he says he is a 6th initiate and highly spiritual.
            > He
            > > > claims that we are incompatible because I am spiritually bereft
            > (I
            > > > am basicaly a lapsed Catholic who believes in following the 10
            > > > Commandments). He says on a spiritual scale of 1-10 that he is
            a
            > 7
            > > > but I am a 5.
            > > >
            > > > I point out that he is dishonest both personally and
            > professionally
            > > > (He repeatedly plagiarizes other people's work). He defends his
            > > > decisions by saying I am locked into conventional notions of
            > > > morality and that everything he does leads him on his path to
            > > > spiritual unfoldment. He uses Eckankar to justify some really
            > bad
            > > > behavior. Furthermore he completely lacks compassion for
            others.
            > He
            > > > denounces this as "attachment" and that's why he does not
            > empathize
            > > > whatsoever.
            > > >
            > > > So my question is, is my ex-boyfriend just an undesireable
            > person
            > > or
            > > > are his behaviors consistent with Eckankar's tenets?
            > >
            >
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