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Re: Thanks!

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  • tee green
    Hi Prometheus and Everyone, Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I m not at all surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all, he and
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 1, 2007
      Hi Prometheus and Everyone,

           Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all, he and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has the talent to achieve it.
           Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
      I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is just further proof to me of what this organization started out as and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I found in other religions.
           If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond Belief 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the effect it has on us.

      http://beyondbelief2006.org/

      Happy Friday!

      Kaye


      Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
      Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Kaye & All! Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell: Your posts on Letters to Gail reminded me of the impression I had of PT while
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 3, 2007
        Hi, Kaye & All!

        Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
        "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I had
        of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him in
        a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
        taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
        romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
        I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony letters
        in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is just
        further proof to me of what this organization started out as and what
        it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
        effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me. I
        began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I found
        in other religions."

        But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
        Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
        particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
        deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
        tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need religion
        for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right way
        to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
        Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT and
        HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the lazy
        man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
        nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so obviously
        tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to connect
        with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually enlightened
        and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
        view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
        directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp so
        special? Because he says so??? NOT!!

        Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine that
        they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
        eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They are
        also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
        lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work place,
        the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he will
        say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just so
        much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing all
        the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
        arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is no
        such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite contradictory.
        One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
        amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
        individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.

        Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
        changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time of
        the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
        rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
        remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
        cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the power
        in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under contruction
        and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull this
        off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!

        Mish

        ************************************************
        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
        <xekweed@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
        >
        > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
        surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all, he
        and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
        member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
        affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has the
        talent to achieve it.
        > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression
        I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured
        him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge
        and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
        romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
        > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
        letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This
        is just further proof to me of what this organization started out as
        and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had
        this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
        me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
        found in other religions.
        > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond Belief
        2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
        religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the effect
        it has on us.
        >
        > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
        >
        > Happy Friday!
        >
        > Kaye
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
        vehicles.
        > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish and All, I see where many Eckists believe in their religion due to their imagined Eck/master experiences. I ve had many things happen to me that I
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 7, 2007
          Hi Mish and All,
          I see where many Eckists believe in their
          religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
          experiences." I've had many things happen
          to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
          if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
          to share.

          For example: While on a road trip recently I
          was thinking how nice it would be to have a
          Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
          cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
          and took the next exit. In order to get back
          on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
          road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
          it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
          to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
          orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
          I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
          Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
          It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
          without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.

          There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
          of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
          for any of them!

          If you have any to share please do!

          Prometheus



          mish wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Kaye & All!
          >
          > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
          > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
          had
          > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
          in
          > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
          > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
          > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
          > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
          letters
          > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
          just
          > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
          what
          > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
          > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
          I
          > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
          found
          > in other religions."
          >
          > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
          > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
          > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
          > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
          > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
          religion
          > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
          way
          > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
          > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
          and
          > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
          lazy
          > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
          > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
          obviously
          > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
          connect
          > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
          enlightened
          > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
          > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
          > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
          so
          > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
          >
          > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
          that
          > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
          > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
          are
          > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
          > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
          place,
          > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
          will
          > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
          so
          > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
          all
          > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
          > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
          no
          > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
          contradictory.
          > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
          > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
          > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
          >
          > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
          > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
          of
          > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
          > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
          > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
          > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
          power
          > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
          contruction
          > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
          this
          > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          > ************************************************
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
          > <xekweed@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
          > >
          > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
          > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
          he
          > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
          > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
          > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
          the
          > talent to achieve it.
          > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
          impression
          > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
          pictured
          > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
          knowledge
          > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
          > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
          > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
          > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
          This
          > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
          as
          > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
          had
          > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
          > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
          I
          > found in other religions.
          > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
          Belief
          > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
          > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
          effect
          > it has on us.
          > >
          > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
          > >
          > > Happy Friday!
          > >
          > > Kaye
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
          > vehicles.
          > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, Here s another real life experience that shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is Needed. While traveling on a long road trip to Atlanta I decided to
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 13, 2007
            Hello All,
            Here's another real life experience that
            shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is
            Needed.

            While traveling on a long road trip to
            Atlanta I decided to stop overnight in
            Lexington, Kentucky. That night while
            channel surfing I saw an ECK Video
            on the community access station. The
            topic of Klemp's 2005 talk was "Let It Be."

            Well, HK's talk was very amusing to hear,
            as well as, to see! Klemp seemed very serious,
            and talked extremely slow and deliberately
            while glancing at his note cards.

            Klemp said that Jesus and Buddha worked with
            the Mahanta, but ECKists were ready for the
            next step. He then mentioned the Beatles song
            of "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney and read
            some of the lyrics. I think he read: Mother
            Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom,
            let it be. Klemp went on to say that ECKists
            should not interfere with the beliefs of others
            and to LET IT BE. He then finally smiled and
            waved as he ended the talk.

            So, did McCartney's Mother, Mary, come to
            Klemp and tell him to Let It Be? Or, is Klemp
            talking to Cheryl Grumpyman and other nasty
            and pushy ECK Vahanas to Let It Be?

            Anyway, after mocking the glorious and all
            powerful Mahanta and having a good laugh
            I changed the channel.

            Now, here's the experience that proves that there
            is No Need for a Mahanta and that mocking him
            is no big deal… because he's a FRAUD!

            The next day I got on the road and was driving
            for awhile when I was "led" to take a certain exit
            to get gas. While inside another motorist from
            Ontario, at the gas pump in front of my auto, told
            me that my left front tire was about to blow! It was
            worn on the inside and down to the steel belt. The
            other front tire was worn badly too. I could have
            had a blow out doing 80 m.p.h.! (Yes, I speed).

            BTW- He wasn't an ECK Master... I would have done
            the same thing.

            Anyway, I was close to a dealership and drove there
            very cautiously. They did a four wheel alignment (the
            toe-in adjustment was off front and rear) and changed
            all four of my tires. The rest of the trip to and in Atlanta
            worked out even better! The two hour delay was perfect
            timing!

            So, you see… We Don't Need No Stinkin' Mahanta!

            Prometheus




            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hi Mish and All,
            > I see where many Eckists believe in their
            > religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
            > experiences." I've had many things happen
            > to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
            > if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
            > to share.
            >
            > For example: While on a road trip recently I
            > was thinking how nice it would be to have a
            > Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
            > cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
            > and took the next exit. In order to get back
            > on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
            > road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
            > it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
            > to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
            > orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
            > I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
            > Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
            > It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
            > without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.
            >
            > There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
            > of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
            > for any of them!
            >
            > If you have any to share please do!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > mish wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi, Kaye & All!
            > >
            > > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
            > > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
            > had
            > > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
            > in
            > > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
            > > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
            > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
            > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
            > letters
            > > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
            > just
            > > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
            > what
            > > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
            > > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
            > I
            > > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
            > found
            > > in other religions."
            > >
            > > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
            > > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
            > > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
            > > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
            > > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
            > religion
            > > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
            > way
            > > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
            > > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
            > and
            > > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
            > lazy
            > > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
            > > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
            > obviously
            > > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
            > connect
            > > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
            > enlightened
            > > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
            > > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
            > > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
            > so
            > > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
            > >
            > > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
            > that
            > > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
            > > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
            > are
            > > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
            > > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
            > place,
            > > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
            > will
            > > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
            > so
            > > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
            > all
            > > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
            > > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
            > no
            > > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
            > contradictory.
            > > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
            > > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
            > > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
            > >
            > > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
            > > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
            > of
            > > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
            > > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
            > > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
            > > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
            > power
            > > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
            > contruction
            > > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
            > this
            > > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            > > ************************************************
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
            > > <xekweed@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
            > > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
            > he
            > > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
            > > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
            > > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
            > the
            > > talent to achieve it.
            > > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
            > impression
            > > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
            > pictured
            > > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
            > knowledge
            > > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
            > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
            > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
            > > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
            > This
            > > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
            > as
            > > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
            > had
            > > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
            > > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
            > I
            > > found in other religions.
            > > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
            > Belief
            > > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
            > > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
            > effect
            > > it has on us.
            > > >
            > > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
            > > >
            > > > Happy Friday!
            > > >
            > > > Kaye
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
            > > vehicles.
            > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • mishmisha9
            LOOKS LIKE HK HAS BEEN READING FORD JOHNSON S BBs! LOL! : ) TOO FUNNY! Hi, Prometheus and All! Nice story, Prometheus! It definitely demonstrates that there is
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 15, 2007
              LOOKS LIKE HK HAS BEEN READING FORD JOHNSON'S BBs!
              LOL! : ) TOO FUNNY!

              Hi, Prometheus and All!

              Nice story, Prometheus! It definitely demonstrates
              that there is no need for a fake guru like Klemp or
              some other pretender in order to connect with or
              have spiritual experiences! The only thing that Klemp
              does for a chela is take his/her money, time and hope!

              Interesting, too, is Klemp's topic "Let It Be" for this
              talk you heard. I posted a message about Paul
              McCarty's "Let It Be" song on Ford Johnson's site back
              in 2004. In my message there, I explained how McCarty
              came to write this song. It came to him in a dream in
              which he envisioned his long deceased mother coming
              to him to quiet his worries and loneliness at the time.
              It is a beautiful spiritual story behind that song.

              It appears that Klemp has been a reader of Ford's BBs! LOL!
              And yet, he has problems with EMR--how does he manage his
              (fake) disease and still be able to read stuff on the Internet???
              LOL! I call it a fake disease as I see it as a ploy to keep
              chelas off the Internet where they just might discover the
              truth about eckankar being a fraud! I've known a few chelas
              who coincidentally came down with this illness after HK
              announced his problems! : )

              Anyway, "Let It Be" has a wonderful message for trusting
              that one's troubles will be okay if one will "let it be."
              Interesting, though, how Klemp puts his spin on it, telling chelas
              to let people be. I bet he'd like us to "let it be" too--just
              walk away quietly from eckankar, and not share the truths about
              all the deception and lies! The Internet must be very disturbing
              to him at times! LOL!

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > Here's another real life experience that
              > shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is
              > Needed.
              >
              > While traveling on a long road trip to
              > Atlanta I decided to stop overnight in
              > Lexington, Kentucky. That night while
              > channel surfing I saw an ECK Video
              > on the community access station. The
              > topic of Klemp's 2005 talk was "Let It Be."
              >
              > Well, HK's talk was very amusing to hear,
              > as well as, to see! Klemp seemed very serious,
              > and talked extremely slow and deliberately
              > while glancing at his note cards.
              >
              > Klemp said that Jesus and Buddha worked with
              > the Mahanta, but ECKists were ready for the
              > next step. He then mentioned the Beatles song
              > of "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney and read
              > some of the lyrics. I think he read: Mother
              > Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom,
              > let it be. Klemp went on to say that ECKists
              > should not interfere with the beliefs of others
              > and to LET IT BE. He then finally smiled and
              > waved as he ended the talk.
              >
              > So, did McCartney's Mother, Mary, come to
              > Klemp and tell him to Let It Be? Or, is Klemp
              > talking to Cheryl Grumpyman and other nasty
              > and pushy ECK Vahanas to Let It Be?
              >
              > Anyway, after mocking the glorious and all
              > powerful Mahanta and having a good laugh
              > I changed the channel.
              >
              > Now, here's the experience that proves that there
              > is No Need for a Mahanta and that mocking him
              > is no big deal… because he's a FRAUD!
              >
              > The next day I got on the road and was driving
              > for awhile when I was "led" to take a certain exit
              > to get gas. While inside another motorist from
              > Ontario, at the gas pump in front of my auto, told
              > me that my left front tire was about to blow! It was
              > worn on the inside and down to the steel belt. The
              > other front tire was worn badly too. I could have
              > had a blow out doing 80 m.p.h.! (Yes, I speed).
              >
              > BTW- He wasn't an ECK Master... I would have done
              > the same thing.
              >
              > Anyway, I was close to a dealership and drove there
              > very cautiously. They did a four wheel alignment (the
              > toe-in adjustment was off front and rear) and changed
              > all four of my tires. The rest of the trip to and in Atlanta
              > worked out even better! The two hour delay was perfect
              > timing!
              >
              > So, you see… We Don't Need No Stinkin' Mahanta!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Mish and All,
              > > I see where many Eckists believe in their
              > > religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
              > > experiences." I've had many things happen
              > > to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
              > > if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
              > > to share.
              > >
              > > For example: While on a road trip recently I
              > > was thinking how nice it would be to have a
              > > Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
              > > cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
              > > and took the next exit. In order to get back
              > > on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
              > > road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
              > > it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
              > > to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
              > > orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
              > > I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
              > > Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
              > > It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
              > > without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.
              > >
              > > There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
              > > of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
              > > for any of them!
              > >
              > > If you have any to share please do!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > mish wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi, Kaye & All!
              > > >
              > > > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
              > > > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
              > > had
              > > > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
              > > in
              > > > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
              > > > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
              > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
              > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
              > > letters
              > > > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
              > > just
              > > > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
              > > what
              > > > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
              > > > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
              > > I
              > > > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
              > > found
              > > > in other religions."
              > > >
              > > > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
              > > > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
              > > > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
              > > > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
              > > > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
              > > religion
              > > > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
              > > way
              > > > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
              > > > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
              > > and
              > > > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
              > > lazy
              > > > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
              > > > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
              > > obviously
              > > > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
              > > connect
              > > > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
              > > enlightened
              > > > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
              > > > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
              > > > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
              > > so
              > > > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
              > > >
              > > > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
              > > that
              > > > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
              > > > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
              > > are
              > > > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
              > > > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
              > > place,
              > > > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
              > > will
              > > > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
              > > so
              > > > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
              > > all
              > > > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
              > > > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
              > > no
              > > > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
              > > contradictory.
              > > > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
              > > > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
              > > > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
              > > >
              > > > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
              > > > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
              > > of
              > > > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
              > > > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
              > > > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
              > > > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
              > > power
              > > > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
              > > contruction
              > > > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
              > > this
              > > > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
              > > >
              > > > Mish
              > > >
              > > > ************************************************
              > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
              > > > <xekweed@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
              > > > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
              > > he
              > > > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
              > > > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
              > > > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
              > > the
              > > > talent to achieve it.
              > > > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
              > > impression
              > > > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
              > > pictured
              > > > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
              > > knowledge
              > > > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
              > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
              > > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
              > > > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
              > > This
              > > > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
              > > as
              > > > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
              > > had
              > > > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
              > > > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
              > > I
              > > > found in other religions.
              > > > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
              > > Belief
              > > > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
              > > > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
              > > effect
              > > > it has on us.
              > > > >
              > > > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
              > > > >
              > > > > Happy Friday!
              > > > >
              > > > > Kaye
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
              > > > vehicles.
              > > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Mish, Excellent post! Yes, ECKists have trouble connecting the dots because it is too easy to just believe, assume, and trust without questioning anything
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 17, 2007
                Hi Mish,
                Excellent post! Yes, ECKists have trouble connecting
                the dots because it is too easy to just believe, assume,
                and trust without questioning anything ever again! It
                is human nature to give leaders you have placed upon a
                pedestal the benefit of the doubt and to think they would
                never misrepresent themselves or what they are selling
                to you (religion). However, that's just the point... they do!

                Religions are selling something and it's Not Free! And,
                ECKANKAR is a Religion and a "Non-profit" Corporation.
                Also, like all other religions there are flaws, internal
                politics, true/partial believers, heretics, punishment/reward,
                distortions, spoken & unspoken rules, myth, dogma, and deceit.

                Eckankar is not above any of this... it's just not acceptable
                to discuss it and still be elligible by one's RESA for those
                sought after Higher Initiations/Positions that equate with
                the Illusion of what these are to bring or result in...
                Higher Consciousness.


                Prometheus



                mish wrote:

                > >
                > > LOOKS LIKE HK HAS BEEN READING FORD JOHNSON'S BBs!
                > > LOL! : ) TOO FUNNY!
                > >
                > > Hi, Prometheus and All!
                > >
                > > Nice story, Prometheus! It definitely demonstrates
                > > that there is no need for a fake guru like Klemp or
                > > some other pretender in order to connect with or
                > > have spiritual experiences! The only thing that Klemp
                > > does for a chela is take his/her money, time and hope!
                > >
                > > Interesting, too, is Klemp's topic "Let It Be" for this
                > > talk you heard. I posted a message about Paul
                > > McCarty's "Let It Be" song on Ford Johnson's site back
                > > in 2004. In my message there, I explained how McCarty
                > > came to write this song. It came to him in a dream in
                > > which he envisioned his long deceased mother coming
                > > to him to quiet his worries and loneliness at the time.
                > > It is a beautiful spiritual story behind that song.
                > >
                > > It appears that Klemp has been a reader of Ford's BBs! LOL!
                > > And yet, he has problems with EMR--how does he manage his
                > > (fake) disease and still be able to read stuff on the Internet???
                > > LOL! I call it a fake disease as I see it as a ploy to keep
                > > chelas off the Internet where they just might discover the
                > > truth about eckankar being a fraud! I've known a few chelas
                > > who coincidentally came down with this illness after HK
                > > announced his problems! : )
                > >
                > > Anyway, "Let It Be" has a wonderful message for trusting
                > > that one's troubles will be okay if one will "let it be."
                > > Interesting, though, how Klemp puts his spin on it, telling chelas
                > > to let people be. I bet he'd like us to "let it be" too--just
                > > walk away quietly from eckankar, and not share the truths about
                > > all the deception and lies! The Internet must be very disturbing
                > > to him at times! LOL!
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello All,
                > > > Here's another real life experience that
                > > > shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is
                > > > Needed.
                > > >
                > > > While traveling on a long road trip to
                > > > Atlanta I decided to stop overnight in
                > > > Lexington, Kentucky. That night while
                > > > channel surfing I saw an ECK Video
                > > > on the community access station. The
                > > > topic of Klemp's 2005 talk was "Let It Be."
                > > >
                > > > Well, HK's talk was very amusing to hear,
                > > > as well as, to see! Klemp seemed very serious,
                > > > and talked extremely slow and deliberately
                > > > while glancing at his note cards.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp said that Jesus and Buddha worked with
                > > > the Mahanta, but ECKists were ready for the
                > > > next step. He then mentioned the Beatles song
                > > > of "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney and read
                > > > some of the lyrics. I think he read: Mother
                > > > Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom,
                > > > let it be. Klemp went on to say that ECKists
                > > > should not interfere with the beliefs of others
                > > > and to LET IT BE. He then finally smiled and
                > > > waved as he ended the talk.
                > > >
                > > > So, did McCartney's Mother, Mary, come to
                > > > Klemp and tell him to Let It Be? Or, is Klemp
                > > > talking to Cheryl Grumpyman and other nasty
                > > > and pushy ECK Vahanas to Let It Be?
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, after mocking the glorious and all
                > > > powerful Mahanta and having a good laugh
                > > > I changed the channel.
                > > >
                > > > Now, here's the experience that proves that there
                > > > is No Need for a Mahanta and that mocking him
                > > > is no big deal… because he's a FRAUD!
                > > >
                > > > The next day I got on the road and was driving
                > > > for awhile when I was "led" to take a certain exit
                > > > to get gas. While inside another motorist from
                > > > Ontario, at the gas pump in front of my auto, told
                > > > me that my left front tire was about to blow! It was
                > > > worn on the inside and down to the steel belt. The
                > > > other front tire was worn badly too. I could have
                > > > had a blow out doing 80 m.p.h.! (Yes, I speed).
                > > >
                > > > BTW- He wasn't an ECK Master... I would have done
                > > > the same thing.
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, I was close to a dealership and drove there
                > > > very cautiously. They did a four wheel alignment (the
                > > > toe-in adjustment was off front and rear) and changed
                > > > all four of my tires. The rest of the trip to and in Atlanta
                > > > worked out even better! The two hour delay was perfect
                > > > timing!
                > > >
                > > > So, you see… We Don't Need No Stinkin' Mahanta!
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > prometheus wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi Mish and All,
                > > > > I see where many Eckists believe in their
                > > > > religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
                > > > > experiences." I've had many things happen
                > > > > to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
                > > > > if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
                > > > > to share.
                > > > >
                > > > > For example: While on a road trip recently I
                > > > > was thinking how nice it would be to have a
                > > > > Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
                > > > > cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
                > > > > and took the next exit. In order to get back
                > > > > on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
                > > > > road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
                > > > > it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
                > > > > to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
                > > > > orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
                > > > > I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
                > > > > Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
                > > > > It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
                > > > > without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.
                > > > >
                > > > > There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
                > > > > of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
                > > > > for any of them!
                > > > >
                > > > > If you have any to share please do!
                > > > >
                > > > > Prometheus
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > mish wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hi, Kaye & All!
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
                > > > > > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
                > > > > had
                > > > > > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
                > > > > in
                > > > > > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
                > > > > > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                > > > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                > > > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                > > > > letters
                > > > > > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
                > > > > just
                > > > > > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
                > > > > what
                > > > > > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
                > > > > > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
                > > > > I
                > > > > > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
                > > > > found
                > > > > > in other religions."
                > > > > >
                > > > > > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
                > > > > > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
                > > > > > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
                > > > > > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
                > > > > > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
                > > > > religion
                > > > > > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
                > > > > way
                > > > > > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
                > > > > > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
                > > > > and
                > > > > > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
                > > > > lazy
                > > > > > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
                > > > > > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
                > > > > obviously
                > > > > > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
                > > > > connect
                > > > > > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
                > > > > enlightened
                > > > > > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
                > > > > > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
                > > > > > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
                > > > > so
                > > > > > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
                > > > > that
                > > > > > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
                > > > > > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
                > > > > are
                > > > > > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
                > > > > > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
                > > > > place,
                > > > > > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
                > > > > will
                > > > > > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
                > > > > so
                > > > > > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
                > > > > all
                > > > > > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
                > > > > > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
                > > > > no
                > > > > > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
                > > > > contradictory.
                > > > > > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
                > > > > > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
                > > > > > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
                > > > > > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
                > > > > of
                > > > > > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
                > > > > > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
                > > > > > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
                > > > > > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
                > > > > power
                > > > > > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
                > > > > contruction
                > > > > > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
                > > > > this
                > > > > > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Mish
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ************************************************
                > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
                > > > > > <xekweed@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
                > > > > > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
                > > > > he
                > > > > > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
                > > > > > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
                > > > > > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
                > > > > the
                > > > > > talent to achieve it.
                > > > > > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
                > > > > impression
                > > > > > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
                > > > > pictured
                > > > > > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
                > > > > knowledge
                > > > > > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                > > > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                > > > > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                > > > > > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
                > > > > This
                > > > > > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
                > > > > as
                > > > > > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
                > > > > had
                > > > > > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
                > > > > > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
                > > > > I
                > > > > > found in other religions.
                > > > > > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
                > > > > Belief
                > > > > > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
                > > > > > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
                > > > > effect
                > > > > > it has on us.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Happy Friday!
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Kaye
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                > > > > > vehicles.
                > > > > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
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