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Re: Gail Twitchell Gross EWN Interview 1973 Excerpted . . .

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Paul stated that Gail insisted that he use his knowledge (research) and experience to create Eckankar. Here Gail plays this fact down, puts out a
    Message 1 of 5 , May 19 7:53 AM
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      Hello All,
      Paul stated that Gail 'insisted' that he use his
      knowledge (research) and experience to create
      Eckankar. Here Gail plays this fact down, puts
      out a spin, and puts it all back upon Paul. Why
      did she do this? Was she being humble or doing
      some advanced damage control for herself, or is
      she rationalizing and attempting to side-step the
      guilt and karma for her involvement as well!


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Here's more info on Paul & Gail and Gail & Darwin
      > and Darwin & Harold.
      >
      > The following quotes are from Klemp's book
      > "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet."
      >
      > HK: "For some reason, I had felt that Paul would
      > retain his physical body for many more years,
      > like the great Tibetan ECK Master, Rebazar Tarzs,
      > reputed to be over five hundred years old. Just
      > this quick, however, Paul was gone." [pg. 318]
      >
      > Well, so much for Klemp's insight or prophecy
      > when it doesn't affect him directly! But then HK
      > writes the following from notes he took at the
      > 1971 EWWS [pg. 325]:
      >
      > HK: '... Tonight (Friday, October 22), Gail Twitchell,
      > Paul's widow, read one of Paul's poems, then she
      > presented the Living ECK Master, Darwin Gross.'
      >
      > I read somewhere HK stated that Paul passed the
      > Rod of ECK Power to Darwin while Rebazar stood by.
      >
      > HK: '... Gail Twitchell presented a blue carnation to
      > him as he came onstage, every camera and tape
      > recorder in the room ceased to function for that brief
      > interval.'
      >
      > So, was that White or Black Magic that caused this?
      >
      >
      > HK: "One night weeks before the ECKANKAR Fifth
      > World Wide Seminar, [Oct., 1971] it came time to say
      > goodbye to Paul Twitchell as the Inner Master.
      > In the Soul body, I became aware of this farewell on
      > the other planes. My notebook for September 29,
      > 1971, a Wednesday, reads: 'Paul and Gail walked
      > through a busy air terminal along with a swarm of
      > other people.... Paul put out his hand, and we embraced.
      > Then with a warm smile, he asked, 'Well did you learn
      > anything through all of this?' A moment later, they
      > vanished into the crowd." [pg. 326]
      >
      > It's interesting that Klemp saw Gail too! Is she an
      > Unknown ECK Master! LOL!
      >
      > HK: "What changes did the new Living ECK Master
      > [Darwin Gross] bring to my life? For one thing, the
      > Soul travel excursions into the other worlds continued
      > without interruption. ONLY I NOW TRAVELED WITH THE
      > NEW LIVING ECK MASTER INSTEAD OF PAUL." [pg. 326]
      >
      > Anyhow, ECKANKAR is all a big hoax so it doesn't really
      > matter, in some ways, what spin they put on it. Still, it's
      > nice to know the history of how and when the present
      > day scam came about and how the lies have been tweaked
      > over the years in order for us to understand the contradictions
      > and the reasons for how and why we were fooled for so long.
      > I'm always amazed when I reread HK's nonsense and can
      > now see the obvious crap that was always there to begin with.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Mish,
      > > Thanks for posting Gail's 1973 bias (PR) interview for
      > > the ECK World News (EWN). I've got a few comments
      > > to share as I'm sure others will have as well.
      > >
      > >
      > > mish wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi, All!
      > >
      > > > The following excerpted interview with Gail Twitchell Gross
      > > > published in the ECK World News, 1973, is from the archives on
      > > > A.R.E. Rather interesting spin with an rather obvious intentional
      > > > purpose at the time. Perhaps, some of you would like to share
      > > > some insights from your own knowledge of what was taking place
      > > > after the great PT had died!
      > >
      > > Here's the article:
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Would you fill us in on your religious background?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > During high school I taught in a Methodist Sunday School, but also each
      > > > Sunday evening I would visit a different church and by the time I had met
      > > > Paul I had gone through most of the conventional religions including
      > > > Buddhism, Catholicism and even Spiritualism. I knew there was something I
      > > > was searching for, but I didn't know what it was until I found ECKANKAR, so
      > > > I was having some out-of-body experiences when I was in junior high school.
      > > > I can remember not wanting to get up and go to school in the morning because
      > > > these experiences I was having were so fantastic that I wouldn't want to go
      > > > to a dull old classroom. After I met Paul I found those experiences to be
      > > > very meaningful. Then they had a real meaning to me. But it took: me that
      > > > long in between to go through the complete search before I could realize
      > > > what those experiences meant to me.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] For one thing, Gail DID NOT "find ECKANKAR!" She first found
      > > Twitchell and then encouraged him (and even helped him) to create
      > > his own New Age religion (modeled after Ruhani Satsang) which he
      > > named ECKANKAR. Therefore, this first reply of Gail's is a distortion
      > > of the truth and a PR spin.
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > What was your first impression of Paul Twitchell?
      > >
      > > > Gail: When I first saw Paul (I saw him every day when he'd come into the
      > > > Library), he stood out from all the other people. There was something about
      > > > him when he walked into the library-you KNEW he was there. He didn't say
      > > > anything but he just stood out from everyone else. I remember watching him
      > > > for months before I would ever say anything to him. Finally I decided that
      > > > he was such an intriguing person that I would say, "Good evening, Mr.
      > > > Twitchell." I was very impressed because after watching all the people
      > > > coming into the library you could see how they were all the same, and here
      > > > was one man that so stood out from all the others. I remember even when we
      > > > were dating . .. for the first six months we shook hands every night and
      > > > shaking his hand was really an electric shock. I didn't think it was funny,
      > > > at all! You could just feel his presence automatically. I even knew when he
      > > > was coming up the escalator. When I was working at the checkout desk, the
      > > > escalator was right behind me and I could always turn around and say, "Good
      > > > evening, Mr. Twitchell" before he ever saw me because I had known that he
      > > > was coming.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Well, Twitch (33 years older) was trying to impress this
      > > younger woman with his intellect and his speed reading or
      > > speed "skimming" abilities by taking out twenty books every
      > > other day! LOL!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > What was your courtship like?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > Unconventional. When I first started dating Paul, if he had time and I
      > > > wasn't working, he'd pick me up. But if he was working sometimes I'd take
      > > > the bus to his house and walk in the door. He would be typing and working at
      > > > home. In fact I rarely saw him when he wasn't. His place was a little house
      > > > on stilts up on the water and it was always rather cool, so I would turn on
      > > > the wall heater and he'd hand me a manuscript and I'd sit there all day with
      > > > my feet propped up on the wall heater reading manuscripts; these were some
      > > > of the books before they were ever printed. When it was time to go if he was
      > > > busy, I would just leave him a note and take the bus back home. Sometimes
      > > > when he wasn't busy we'd go see a foreign film and sometimes we would go to
      > > > the Laundromat and while we were doing the laundry we would discuss all
      > > > these great ideas.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] This was in Seattle. When Gail married Paul (early 1964, age 21,
      > > 7/18/64) she listed her job as "information clerk at newspaper" on
      > > the marriage license. I can imagine how Gail helped Paul with editing
      > > in regard to grammer and even content on these early plagiarized
      > > manuscripts.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Would you give us the history behind Letters to Gail?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > During this time, after I met Paul, he could obviously see that I needed
      > > > some instruction. Even though I'd been going to college for some time, the
      > > > educational system was not really giving me what was necessary to develop me
      > > > as a person. So he asked if he could write these letters to me. Well, it
      > > > sounded harmless enough to me so I said, "Fine." He would write these two
      > > > page letters two or three times a week and he would MAIL them to me, even
      > > > though he was seeing me almost every day. He would never mention
      > > > them-nothing-until Friday night. Then we would go to Chinatown and have a
      > > > cup of tea and that was my time when I could ask any questions that I could
      > > > or wanted to. But at first I could hardly understand some of the material
      > > > enough to ask questions. I had one week to read them, you see, over and over
      > > > and over again and he would never give me more than I could handle at one
      > > > time.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Paul needed his own "instruction" on grammer and how to
      > > write from Gail! However, Gail talks of how the educational system
      > > didn't help her to develop as a person. Well, that's her fault! It's called
      > > LIFE! And, at that young of an age she was still early into the journey.
      > > At least college helped her to explore and understand a variety of
      > > topics and to be able to analyze/organize her thoughts and be able
      > > to write them down in order to express herself. But, here Gail is
      > > being spoon fed and indoctrinated early on "and he would never give
      > > me more than I could handle" sounds familar!
      > >
      > > Gail:
      > > > I think it's important to understand that when I grew up, I was VERY
      > > > sensitive. If anything hurt me at all I would retreat into this shell,
      > > > because once I was in this shell nothing could hurt me. I would emerge very
      > > > very slowly. Paul was furnishing me with a code of life, so that life
      > > > couldn't hurt me, so that I would be in control and he would use and help me
      > > > use all these techniques to withdraw from the shell, until finally I emerged
      > > > a complete person. It's been very thrilling for me to see Letters to Gail in
      > > > print and to be able to share with others this knowledge which I consider
      > > > more important than my complete college education. I'm also looking forward
      > > > to sharing more of these letters in future volumes.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] This sounds very delusional. Is Gail against higher education?
      > > Many people are "sensitive" and many people want to be in "control."
      > > Knowing about Soul, Karma and Reincarnation does help one to look
      > > deeper into life and accept more responsibility for their actions, but
      > > other religions teach these same things! Gail just needed to read
      > > "The Path of the Masters" and she would have had as much knowledge
      > > as Twit (minus his B.S./con)!
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Did you have an early idea of Paul Twitchell's vision or direction?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > There was never any time that I didn't have an idea because it was so much a
      > > > part of him. He was never away from it. It was his complete life-his mission
      > > > in life, and he carried it out regardless of anything or anyone. He let very
      > > > few people into his life, but once he invited you in, there was no way you
      > > > could avoid knowing that he and his vision were the same thing. It was
      > > > impossible to separate them.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Well, Klemp mentioned on ECKANKAR.org that Twitchell
      > > was 'Exaggerating' and 'Twisting Facts' to get into "Who Who in
      > > Kentucky" in 1935 at the age of 27! Therefore, Twitchell had been
      > > a liar, conman and self-promoter way back before he met Gail.
      > > Afterall, he even lied to Gail about his age by taking 14 years off
      > > his age. Gail thought PT was born in 1922 versus 1908! Hey, maybe
      > > the 14 year difference between these dates is where PT got the idea
      > > for making himself a 14th Initiate! I doubt it if even Gail would have
      > > been all that interested in a man 33.5 years old than she. So, what
      > > was Paul's mission in life? I guess it was to give people a Westernized/
      > > New Age/Paul Twitchell version of Radhasoami/Ruhani Satsang and
      > > create a vocation for himself as TOP DOG just as L.Ron Hubbard had
      > > with Scientology.
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > When you met Paul did you have an idea that this was the man you would
      > > someday marry?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > I don't think I thought of marriage. I just thoroughly enjoyed every day and
      > > > every experience for what it was. I did know that I was special, because the
      > > > only thing that he had that was really important to him was his time-and he
      > > > shared it with me.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Maybe Gail wasn't thinking of marriage, but I guarantee
      > > you that a 56 year old Paul was hot after this 21 year old cutie!
      > > What better than to get someone young enough, naive enough,
      > > insecure enough, and inexperienced enough to mold and influence
      > > while placing himself upon a pedestal for her to admire! This was
      > > always Twitchell's real goal in life... To Be Admired!
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Was your getting married as different as the rest of your experiences?
      > >
      > > > Gail: Of course! Paul had moved to California. He'd been gone about two
      > > > weeks. Apparently he came to get me, though he never actually said so. It
      > > > was Christmas vacation and I was at my parents' home. He drove up and he
      > > > stayed overnight at my parents' place. I remember my mom saying, "Are you
      > > > going to go back with Paul?" And I said, "I don't know." She said, "Well
      > > > he's leaving in an hour," and I said, "I know he is, but when he gets ready
      > > > to leave-I'll know."
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Right! The marriage license was issued on Jan. 17, 1964
      > > and taken out in San Francisco. It sounds like Twit had cold
      > > feet in asking Gail to marry him. PT probably didn't want to
      > > be rejected due to his age even though he'd taken off over a
      > > dozen years. I can see why Gail decided to go with him even
      > > though she probably admired him more than she loved him.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Had he asked you to go back with him?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > I think he had assumed that I would go back. He hadn't said anything ... and
      > > > nothing to my parents at all. So my parents kind of picked up his thoughts.
      > > > He'd been driving all the way up from San Francisco with those thoughts.
      > > > Everybody just knew what he had in his mind but he was very quiet about it.
      > > > When he got ready to leave he went down the steps, clear to his car and then
      > > > said, "Uh, are you coming with me?" I said, "Okay."
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Gee, were Gail's parents psychic since they "picked up
      > > his thoughts" and "Everybody just knew what he had in his
      > > mind." This, actually, shows how easy it was for Twit to
      > > manipulate Gail... and shows how inadaquate his social
      > > skills were... and how insecure he was around young women.
      > > If she would have rejected him then it wasn't like a real
      > > proposal... it gave the appearance as more of an after
      > > thought and, therefore, rejection wouldn't hurt as much
      > > or be as noticeable to others like getting down on one knee
      > > and then being told, No Way Jose'! You're still way too old!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Then you were married in San Francisco?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > Yes. And after we married we lived in this studio apartment which
      > > > was the only place we could afford that had an ocean view. It was
      > > > so small Paul had his typewriter at the end of the bed so he could
      > > > sit and type all night. You couldn't call it the average honeymoon.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] If Paul was typing all night then what was Gail doing?
      > > Instead of showing that Twit was "normal" or healthy Gail
      > > is showing how abnormal and unhealthy PT's behaviour was!
      > > Yet, many ECKists will think that this is how a future Mahanta
      > > is supposed to act!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Did you learn to sleep with the typewriter going?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > Finally. I finally got so tired I had to.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] See, this is just stupid and inconsiderate. Paul
      > > could have written his notes or thoughts out and let
      > > Gail retype them the next day while correcting his
      > > spelling and grammer!
      > >
      > >
      > > > EWN:
      > > > After your marriage you interrupted your education to work full
      > > > time so that Paul Twitchell could write full time and begin to
      > > > bring Eckankar out into the world. How did you feel about that?
      > > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > I didn't mind. Because I knew what Paul's life was like and
      > > > I knew in order for him to bring ECK out into the world that I
      > > > has a responsibility, whether it was working full time for Paul
      > > > to do his writing-or whatever--that was part of being Paul's wife.
      > > > He said that when he got that out then he would make sure that I
      > > > could go back to school and continue my education and that was
      > > > enough.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] "He said... I could go back to school... and that was enough."
      > > That's a strange way of putting it! Yes, Gail worked full time while
      > > Twitchell worked on organizing the con and his manuscripts. However,
      > > Gail also helped Paul to write and edited these manuscripts too!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > What was the best part of your marriage to Paul Twitchell?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > The great part of being married to Paul was the fact that each
      > > > of us were individuals and always accepted each other as
      > > > individuals. I think the best part was that Paul was a human
      > > > being and he was fun and he was happy. People tend to set him
      > > > up as a god, but he was a teacher and he was a husband, and
      > > > that's the role he played in my life.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] Hmmmm. Maybe they had an open marriage too! Usually,
      > > marriage is a partnership where two individual Souls come together
      > > with a common purpose, needs, etc., and wanting to share the journey
      > > with a like minded Soul... Mate. People tend to set Twit up as a "god"
      > > because if one looks at the definition of Mahanta/Living ECK Master
      > > they will see that "god" is at the most 4th (Mental) Plane while the
      > > LEM/Mahanta is 14th Plane! Gail speaks with a forked tongue!
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > What was the most difficult part for you?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > The most difficult part for me was how to do more with 24 hours
      > > > and the fact that he did SO MUCH and no matter how much I did
      > > > in 24 hours I could never, in any way, compare with him.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] PT was a fanatic and burned the candle at both ends! No
      > > wonder he died rather young!
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Was his translation a shock to you?
      > > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > No. It wasn't a shock at all; it had been coming for some time and I hope
      > > > that the amazing, intriguing information surrounding this comes to light
      > > > because the details are absolutely fascinating. I think it's a complete
      > > > study in itself. I knew when he went to Cincinnati that he wouldn't be
      > > > coming back and I think that if it would have been a shock it wouldn't have
      > > > been true ECK.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] "It had been coming for some time!" That's an interesting
      > > comment! Paul had probably been having chest pains for some
      > > time due to his lack of sleep, improper diet, and lack of exercise!
      > > So, if Paul, also, knew he wasn't coming back then why didn't he
      > > choose a successor?! Why did Tom Flamma, supposedly, (other
      > > than Gail) have the only hint that PT was to die! Paul was conducting
      > > regular meetings in his hotel room and discussing future plans
      > > just hours before he died! He told nobody that he was about to
      > > translate! And, why didn't Gail go with Paul if she knew he wasn't
      > > going to return! Instead, she went to Oregon to be with Darwin!
      > > Yes, "true ECK" is true delusion and misdirection! Gail was as much
      > > of the conman as Twitchell was!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > How do you regard the translation?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > Well, it's just the natural part of ECK. The most natural part of ECK. It's
      > > > what we're living for-it's what we're being trained for.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] "Trained" equates to becoming close-minded, delusional,
      > > gullible, and brain-washed!
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Has the period been difficult for you since his translation?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > No, in fact it's been the easiest part of my life, really. Because NOW is
      > > > the time for me to put into practice what Paul taught me .. . and so the
      > > > transition period has really been very rewarding and terribly exciting for
      > > > me.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] I guess it's been the "easiest part" with young and virile Darwin
      > > servicing Gail!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > <snip>
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > When Darwin came into the position he now holds I didn't know him
      > > > as an individual at all. Even though he had gone to London with Paul
      > > > and gone to many of the seminars I really wasn't on a personal basis
      > > > with him and so at first I was apprehensive and wondering if I could be
      > > > flexible enough to work with Darwin as much as I could with Paul.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] What a liar! Darwin didn't just come into his position out
      > > of nowhere! Darwin and Gail were screwing around for almost
      > > a year before Paul translated! It was her "dream" she told to the
      > > ECK Board that made them give Darwin a 5th Initiation (he was a
      > > 2nd) and then to recognize him (after Oct. 22) as the LEM/Mahanta!
      > >
      > > However, this brings up another topic. Gail had to have been a
      > > member of ECKANKAR to have had a dream from Paul choosing
      > > Darwin. Would the ECK Board take the word of a non-Member!
      > > Gail was probably an 8th Initiate (at least) but, also, probably
      > > never had a "membership card." However, it's also interesting
      > > that Rebazar Tarzs (the torchbearer of ECKANKAR) didn't fill in
      > > for Paul (since the LEM is supposed to have a "physical body")
      > > and choose Darwin for the ECK Board himself! Then again, that's
      > > kind of hard to pull off when R.T. is actually a Fictional ECK Master!
      > >
      > >
      > > <SNIP>
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > In other words there is no way that anyone could describe you as
      > > an oppressed female?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > No. Not according to me anyway because I had all the freedom I
      > > > wanted and I think sometimes people can have too much freedom
      > > > if they don't know how to handle it. Paul solved all my needs and
      > > > we had a terrific marriage. I always felt as an individual and I
      > > > think people should remain individuals, but I think they still need
      > > > to relate to other people.
      > >
      > >
      > > [ME] See, this is why she was "relating to" Darwin in Oregon
      > > instead of with her soon to be ex-husband, Paul, in Cincinnati.
      > >
      > >
      > > EWN:
      > > Would you say that you are a proponent of the open marriage contract
      > > wherein one grows into his own areas while at the same time maintains
      > > a great respect for the other?
      > >
      > > > Gail:
      > > > Well not open marriage in the same sense that-if you don't want to be
      > > > faithful to your husband you don't have to. I don't go that far in
      > > > the open marriage part. I believe that people can remain individuals
      > > > and still have a closed marriage and still not feel oppressed.
      > > > For me-I can, because I only need one other person to be happy.
      > > > My happiness comes from sharing life with one other person COMPLETELY.
      > > > Other than that I can stand on my own completely. I don't need the
      > > > open marriage type freedom to come and go as I please. I need
      > > > freedom within a marriage.
      > >
      > > Excerpted from the ECK World News July 1973 .
      > >
      > > [ME] Actually, what could Gail say for this EWN article...
      > > that she was an adultress! See, Paul didn't believe in a "open
      > > marriage" either, and Gail just got lonely and was looking
      > > for romance, love and sex! Other than cheating on Paul with
      > > Darwin she didn't believe in the open marriage concept either!
      > > She's a one man woman, but since she didn't really have a true
      > > "marriage" with Paul she rationalized and had an affair with Darwin!
      > > How Gross is that!
      > >
      > > And, isn't it interesting how Gail's always managed to land on
      > > her feet! She got a payout from Darwin (ECKANKAR) of $500
      > > Thousand for the PT material as a part of their divorce. Then Gail
      > > marries a wealthy man and when he died he left her financially
      > > well off, whereby, she turns around and marries another wealthy
      > > guy! As far as I know she still lives in Palm Springs!
      > >
      > > Anyway, this EWN article is just more spin. Gail supported the
      > > and helped Paul with the ECKANKAR con and was really much
      > > more a participant in the scam than she is willing to devulge.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      >
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