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Doug Marman Babbles about Sedona Property!

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  • mishmisha9
    Someone on A.R.E. lamented that an Eck Spiritual Center/Temple was not established in Sedona. Doug Marman, of course, gives his spin on this. Interesting how
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 17, 2007
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      Someone on A.R.E. lamented that an Eck Spiritual Center/Temple
      was not established in Sedona. Doug Marman, of course, gives
      his spin on this. Interesting how he talks about Darwin Gross, the
      Black Magician, along with Harold Klemp, the negatively charged
      mahanta who shoved Darwin out of the eck org! Here's Doug's
      explanatory post which is ever so enlightening. BTW, Doug is
      asking the person named Dennis to give his sources, casting
      doubt on what the other poster wrote--yet another technique
      in maintaining a religious meme, isn't it!! LOL!

      Doug, who knows everything, wrote:

      I know how you feel about Sedona. I've always loved it as well, and
      enjoyed my time in the mountains all around there.

      We rented a house out on Red Rock Loop Road and could see Cathedral
      Rock from our back yard. I remember swimming in Oak Creek and some of
      the private swimming holes around there. And I remember hiking up into
      the red rock spires during the storms that blew through there.
      Stunning memories.

      That was one reason why I hoped Harold would find a way to keep the
      spiritual center there in Sedona. I spoke recently with Patti Simpson
      about this, and she felt the same way. She also owned some land out
      there back then and loved it. In fact, I remember visiting Patti on
      her property while we were living out there.

      I think Darwin saw the same thing and this was why he agreed to accept
      the land. It did seem like a spiritual center belonged there. I think
      Darwin saw this and believed it. So, I don't see any deception here at
      all. In fact, I think it was probably the spiritual beauty of that
      area the swayed Darwin into accepting Helen's view that Eckankar
      should have its spiritual center there.

      But Patti pointed out something that I hadn't realized: There is no
      way to split the spiritual center from the physical headquarters. In
      fact, Paul gave a talk on this very subject, about the importance of
      there being one center for the organization, and that it should not be

      The problem was that you couldn't put the whole organization in
      Sedona. It just didn't fit. Sedona was not a place to ship books from
      or print them, and Harold felt that the land itself was delicate and
      would not stand up to thousands of visitors every year.

      And as became clear, there was a lot more going on, like undercurrents
      in the water.

      In the end, the way the court case went, it did seem like a clear sign
      that the center should not be there. And I think Harold went to great
      lengths to do the best he could for everyone, and I am amazed that he
      could find a way to turn that land into a state park for everyone's
      enjoyment. He certainly could have gotten a lot more money for it if
      that was what he wanted.

      But I have a few questions for you. You said that you found out what
      was in the court records. Does that mean that you read them? Or does
      this mean that someone told you what was in them?

      If you read them, can you provide a link so that we can all read them?
      Or can you quote some of the sections you found most revealing?

      If someone told you what was in them, can you tell us who it was that
      told you and why you think they were representing the court case

      If you spoke to Helen's family and friends, can you tell me what their
      feelings about Eckankar were in the very beginning when Helen first
      started studying? Were they always opposed to Helen's involvement? Or
      did they change their mind because of what happened, but originally
      like Eckankar? In other words, did they tell you that they always
      thought Helen's interest in Eckankar was a mistake, or did they
      encourage Helen's interest in the beginning because they could see her
      desire to find out more?

      I think you missed my point about David Lane. I mentioned him because
      you said that it was when his book came out that she started having
      doubts. My point was that she was aware of Lane's material years
      before this when his term paper was copied and sent around to ECKists.
      Did someone tell you that it was Lane's material that caused her to
      have doubts? If so, who told you this? Do you really think that Helen,
      who was as well connected as anyone in Eckankar, actually never saw
      Lane's term paper when it came out years earlier? If she had read it
      before, why would it have caused her to have doubts when it surfaced

      I never heard that Helen was having doubts before she died, and I
      never heard anyone say they heard this. Helen wasn't the sort to keep
      this kind of thing to herself. She was pretty outspoken. So, some of
      these things you have heard just don't add up for me. Are you sure
      what you've been told is accurate?

      Perhaps if you could share more about your sources or how you arrived
      at your information, and why you think it is true? That might help.


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