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Re: The 2007 ECK Springtime Seminar - Yawn...

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  • tomleafeater
    ... HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can t handle it? ... The
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 4, 2007
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
      <zoey_true@...> wrote:
      >
      > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the
      HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
      anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't
      handle it?
      >
      > curious, zoey....


      The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
      groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
      surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
      letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
      delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
      would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.

      You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
      think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
      books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.

      The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
      he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the other
      talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
      special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
      full of egos, no more.

      Kent




      >
      > prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      > Hello All,
      > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
      > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
      > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
      > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
      > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
      > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
      > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
      > and dream experiences or interventions by the
      > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
      > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
      > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
      > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
      > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
      > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
      > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
      >
      > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
      > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
      > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
      > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
      > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
      >
      > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
      > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
      > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
      > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
      > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
      > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
      > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
      >
      > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
      > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
      > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
      > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
      > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
      > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
      > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
      > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
      > life!
      >
      > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
      > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
      > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
      >
      > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
      > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
      > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
      > walk himself!
      >
      > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
      > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
      > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
      > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
      > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
      > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
      > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
      > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
      >
      > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
      > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
      > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
      > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
      > than the High Initiates?!
      >
      > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
      > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
      > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
      > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
      > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
      > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
      > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
      > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
      > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
      >
    • Zoey Salinger
      you know, i once had this hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is). i
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        you know, i once had this hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is).  i honestly half-way believed that.  for example, i thought the hi material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates weren't prepared to hear.    -   but i guess it's horse shit all the way to the top.
         
        zoey....

        tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
        wrote:
        >
        > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the
        HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
        anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't
        handle it?
        >
        > curious, zoey....


        The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
        groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
        surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
        letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
        delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
        would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.

        You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
        think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
        books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.

        The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
        he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the other
        talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
        special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
        full of egos, no more.

        Kent




        >
        > prometheus_973 wrote:
        > Hello All,
        > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
        > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
        > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
        > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
        > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
        > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
        > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
        > and dream experiences or interventions by the
        > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
        > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
        > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
        > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
        > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
        > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
        > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
        >
        > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
        > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
        > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
        > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
        > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
        >
        > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
        > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
        > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
        > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
        > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
        > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
        > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
        >
        > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
        > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
        > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
        > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
        > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
        > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
        > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
        > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
        > life!
        >
        > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
        > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
        > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
        >
        > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
        > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
        > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
        > walk himself!
        >
        > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
        > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
        > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
        > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
        > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
        > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
        > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
        > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
        >
        > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
        > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
        > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
        > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
        > than the High Initiates?!
        >
        > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
        > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
        > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
        > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
        > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
        > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
        > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
        > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
        > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
        >





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      • Zoey Salinger
        it would be more accurate to surmise that it s horse shit from the top, all the way to the bottom. zoey... Zoey Salinger wrote: you
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
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          it would be more accurate to surmise that it's horse shit from the top, all the way to the bottom.  zoey...

          Zoey Salinger <zoey_true@...> wrote:
          you know, i once had this hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is).  i honestly half-way believed that.  for example, i thought the hi material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates weren't prepared to hear.    -   but i guess it's horse shit all the way to the top.
           
          zoey....

          tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
          wrote:
          >
          > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the
          HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
          anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't
          handle it?
          >
          > curious, zoey....


          The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
          groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
          surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
          letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
          delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
          would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.

          You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
          think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
          books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.

          The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
          he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the other
          talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
          special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
          full of egos, no more.

          Kent




          >
          > prometheus_973 wrote:
          > Hello All,
          > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
          > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
          > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
          > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
          > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
          > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
          > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
          > and dream experiences or interventions by the
          > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
          > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
          > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
          > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
          > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
          > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
          > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
          >
          > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
          > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
          > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
          > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
          > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
          >
          > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
          > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
          > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
          > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
          > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
          > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
          > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
          >
          > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
          > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
          > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
          > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
          > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
          > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
          > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
          > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
          > life!
          >
          > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
          > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
          > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
          >
          > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
          > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
          > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
          > walk himself!
          >
          > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
          > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
          > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
          > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
          > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
          > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
          > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
          > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
          >
          > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
          > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
          > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
          > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
          > than the High Initiates?!
          >
          > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
          > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
          > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
          > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
          > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
          > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
          > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
          > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
          > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
          >





          Yahoo! Groups Links

          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous/

          <*> Your email settings:
          Individual Email | Traditional

          <*> To change settings online go to:
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          (Yahoo! ID required)

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        • tomleafeater
          Your comments, Zoey, remind me of my own thinking back before I became an h.i. I thought that when I reached the higher initiations, all would be okay and I d
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Your comments, Zoey, remind me of my own thinking back before I
            became an h.i. I thought that when I reached the higher initiations,
            all would be okay and I'd have found all the answers I'd been
            seeking. I think a lot of eckists believe this will happen for them.
            So when they get the those initiations, and the novelty wears off in
            a year or so, they begin to realize they're really no different than
            they were before. This is when a lot of eckists begin to rethink
            eckankar. They begin to release the grip a bit, and begin to see a
            little more objectively for the first time in all their years in
            eckankar.

            I remember going to seminars and being put off by what I saw in Klemp
            and the H.I.s. Everything seemed fake and phony, superficial and
            based on status. I'd sit at the H.I. gatherings at the seminars and
            couldn't believe my eyes. People were clearly strutting about, trying
            to be oh-so-spiritual, but it all looked shallow. Klemp became boring
            and too stiff and pious. Eckankar has its own brand of
            conventionality, its own conventional wisdom.

            My H.I. friends, I began to realize, were incapable of thinking
            outside the eckankar box. If I phrased a thought in a way that
            wasn't "spiritually correct" according to eckankar conventional
            wisdom I'd get that raised eyebrow look. It began to seem really
            limiting. And Klemp was one of the worst examples of all that I'm
            stating here. Seminars became insufferable.

            The hard core true believers who won't even dare to peak beneath the
            veil are a curious bunch. These are the real cultists. Some of these
            folks are so convinced 'up is down' they think anyone who says
            otherwise is 'spinning.' Truly strange. How can people become so
            lacking in basic curiosity that they don't even dare try on a
            different point of view just to see if it at all fits? That was never
            my style, and so eckankar was always a source of limitation, which
            now I realize, looking back on it all.

            I am so incredibly glad I got out of that trap. You know, we use that
            word 'trap' a lot to describe eckankar, but it really is such a
            quagmire to get stuck in eckankar limbo.

            Kent



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
            <zoey_true@...> wrote:
            >
            > it would be more accurate to surmise that it's horse shit from the
            top, all the way to the bottom. zoey...
            >
            > Zoey Salinger <zoey_true@...> wrote: you know, i once had this
            hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all
            my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is). i
            honestly half-way believed that. for example, i thought the hi
            material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but
            were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates
            weren't prepared to hear. - but i guess it's horse shit all the
            way to the top.
            >
            > zoey....
            >
            > tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are
            the
            > HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
            > anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals
            can't
            > handle it?
            > >
            > > curious, zoey....
            >
            >
            > The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
            > groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
            > surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
            > letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
            > delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
            > would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.
            >
            > You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
            > think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
            > books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.
            >
            > The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
            > he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the
            other
            > talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
            > special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
            > full of egos, no more.
            >
            > Kent
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > > prometheus_973
            > wrote:
            > > Hello All,
            > > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
            > > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
            > > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
            > > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
            > > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
            > > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
            > > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
            > > and dream experiences or interventions by the
            > > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
            > > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
            > > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
            > > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
            > > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
            > > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
            > > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
            > >
            > > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
            > > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
            > > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
            > > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
            > > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
            > >
            > > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
            > > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
            > > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
            > > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
            > > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
            > > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
            > > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
            > >
            > > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
            > > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
            > > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
            > > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
            > > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
            > > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
            > > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
            > > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
            > > life!
            > >
            > > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
            > > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
            > > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
            > >
            > > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
            > > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
            > > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
            > > walk himself!
            > >
            > > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
            > > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
            > > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
            > > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
            > > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
            > > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
            > > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
            > > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
            > >
            > > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
            > > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
            > > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
            > > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
            > > than the High Initiates?!
            > >
            > > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
            > > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
            > > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
            > > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
            > > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
            > > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
            > > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
            > > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
            > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
            > always stay connected to friends.
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Need Mail bonding?
            > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
            >
          • mishmisha9
            At the eck seminars, chelas are judged by the letter on their badges--A, B, or C. Sit in a round table discussion and listen and watch at how chelas re-act to
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              At the eck seminars, chelas are judged by the letter on their
              badges--A, B, or C. Sit in a round table discussion and listen
              and watch at how chelas re-act to what one says according
              to their badge letter. An "A" is usually tolerated, a "B" might
              be a bit interesting, but hey the "C" has the higher and better
              words! LOL! Also, notice how chelas will separate off according
              to the badge designation. I was standing with a group of higher
              initiates who all received hugs from this highly esteemed eckist
              who when she saw me with my lower initiation badge turned her
              back and ignored me. Everyone in that group was individually
              greeted by her with a hug--5 out of 6 chelas, that is--except me!
              Well, that was impressive for me! I wasn't the only one who
              noted this shunning/avoidance of me, the lower initiate! : ) But
              talk about divine love! LOL!

              Anyway, I'm sure the same old stuff will be going on at the
              spring time seminar this weekend. Much ado about nothing.
              Chelas running around setting up chairs and tables, microphones,
              pamplets, donation boxes, etc. Little Harry will eventually show up
              to give his usual boring rambling talk on Saturday night. Funny,
              though, how cold it is up there in Minneapolis right now! I wonder
              why the mahanta isn't conjuring up some warmer weather for
              this great event? Maybe, it's because he can't. He's a fake and
              has no powers!

              As for Etznab's post, I had a problem with his word "apparently."
              It seemed to be a pointed attempt at concluding something had
              taken place when in fact it is fiction. Posting comments like that
              are confusing--especially, on ESA, where seekers are looking for
              truth based on facts about the history and con of eckankar and its
              leaders. Etznab and others can certainly "imagine" what they want,
              but I take issue when it is presented as if it actually happened.

              Mish



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...> wrote:
              >
              > Your comments, Zoey, remind me of my own thinking back before I
              > became an h.i. I thought that when I reached the higher initiations,
              > all would be okay and I'd have found all the answers I'd been
              > seeking. I think a lot of eckists believe this will happen for them.
              > So when they get the those initiations, and the novelty wears off in
              > a year or so, they begin to realize they're really no different than
              > they were before. This is when a lot of eckists begin to rethink
              > eckankar. They begin to release the grip a bit, and begin to see a
              > little more objectively for the first time in all their years in
              > eckankar.
              >
              > I remember going to seminars and being put off by what I saw in Klemp
              > and the H.I.s. Everything seemed fake and phony, superficial and
              > based on status. I'd sit at the H.I. gatherings at the seminars and
              > couldn't believe my eyes. People were clearly strutting about, trying
              > to be oh-so-spiritual, but it all looked shallow. Klemp became boring
              > and too stiff and pious. Eckankar has its own brand of
              > conventionality, its own conventional wisdom.
              >
              > My H.I. friends, I began to realize, were incapable of thinking
              > outside the eckankar box. If I phrased a thought in a way that
              > wasn't "spiritually correct" according to eckankar conventional
              > wisdom I'd get that raised eyebrow look. It began to seem really
              > limiting. And Klemp was one of the worst examples of all that I'm
              > stating here. Seminars became insufferable.
              >
              > The hard core true believers who won't even dare to peak beneath the
              > veil are a curious bunch. These are the real cultists. Some of these
              > folks are so convinced 'up is down' they think anyone who says
              > otherwise is 'spinning.' Truly strange. How can people become so
              > lacking in basic curiosity that they don't even dare try on a
              > different point of view just to see if it at all fits? That was never
              > my style, and so eckankar was always a source of limitation, which
              > now I realize, looking back on it all.
              >
              > I am so incredibly glad I got out of that trap. You know, we use that
              > word 'trap' a lot to describe eckankar, but it really is such a
              > quagmire to get stuck in eckankar limbo.
              >
              > Kent
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
              > <zoey_true@> wrote:
              > >
              > > it would be more accurate to surmise that it's horse shit from the
              > top, all the way to the bottom. zoey...
              > >
              > > Zoey Salinger <zoey_true@> wrote: you know, i once had this
              > hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all
              > my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is). i
              > honestly half-way believed that. for example, i thought the hi
              > material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but
              > were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates
              > weren't prepared to hear. - but i guess it's horse shit all the
              > way to the top.
              > >
              > > zoey....
              > >
              > > tomleafeater <tianyue@> wrote:
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are
              > the
              > > HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
              > > anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals
              > can't
              > > handle it?
              > > >
              > > > curious, zoey....
              > >
              > >
              > > The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
              > > groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
              > > surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
              > > letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
              > > delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
              > > would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.
              > >
              > > You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
              > > think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
              > > books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.
              > >
              > > The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
              > > he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the
              > other
              > > talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
              > > special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
              > > full of egos, no more.
              > >
              > > Kent
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > prometheus_973
              > > wrote:
              > > > Hello All,
              > > > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
              > > > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
              > > > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
              > > > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
              > > > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
              > > > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
              > > > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
              > > > and dream experiences or interventions by the
              > > > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
              > > > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
              > > > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
              > > > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
              > > > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
              > > > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
              > > > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
              > > >
              > > > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
              > > > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
              > > > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
              > > > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
              > > > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
              > > >
              > > > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
              > > > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
              > > > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
              > > > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
              > > > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
              > > > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
              > > > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
              > > >
              > > > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
              > > > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
              > > > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
              > > > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
              > > > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
              > > > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
              > > > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
              > > > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
              > > > life!
              > > >
              > > > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
              > > > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
              > > > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
              > > >
              > > > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
              > > > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
              > > > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
              > > > walk himself!
              > > >
              > > > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
              > > > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
              > > > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
              > > > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
              > > > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
              > > > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
              > > > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
              > > > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
              > > >
              > > > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
              > > > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
              > > > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
              > > > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
              > > > than the High Initiates?!
              > > >
              > > > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
              > > > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
              > > > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
              > > > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
              > > > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
              > > > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
              > > > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
              > > > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
              > > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
              > > always stay connected to friends.
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Need Mail bonding?
              > > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
              > >
              >
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