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The 2007 ECK Springtime Seminar - Yawn...

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 3, 2007
      Hello All,
      April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
      as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
      ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
      insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
      surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
      a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
      Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
      and dream experiences or interventions by the
      Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
      will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
      Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
      really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
      H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
      and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
      H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.

      The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
      15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
      available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
      Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
      book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!

      Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
      it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
      All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
      ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
      these. And, these discussions will be on older material
      when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
      than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!

      ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
      Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
      ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
      friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
      people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
      they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
      the time, money, and the desire to come to another
      boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
      life!

      What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
      Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
      This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!

      If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
      point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
      kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
      walk himself!

      Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
      be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
      are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
      the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
      H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
      of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
      mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
      a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!

      At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
      look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
      people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
      and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
      than the High Initiates?!

      Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
      Does this depict a person that has advanced training
      to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
      that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
      there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
      Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
      especially religion, has anything close to the truth
      for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.

      Prometheus
    • Zoey Salinger
      i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there anything in them that is so
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 4, 2007
        i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status.  what are the HI only books all about?  why can only HIs read them?  is there anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't handle it?
         
        curious, zoey....

        prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        Hello All,
        April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
        as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
        ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
        insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
        surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
        a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
        Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
        and dream experiences or interventions by the
        Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
        will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
        Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
        really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
        H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
        and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
        H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.

        The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
        15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
        available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
        Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
        book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!

        Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
        it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
        All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
        ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
        these. And, these discussions will be on older material
        when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
        than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!

        ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
        Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
        ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
        friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
        people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
        they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
        the time, money, and the desire to come to another
        boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
        life!

        What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
        Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
        This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!

        If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
        point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
        kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
        walk himself!

        Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
        be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
        are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
        the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
        H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
        of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
        mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
        a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!

        At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
        look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
        people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
        and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
        than the High Initiates?!

        Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
        Does this depict a person that has advanced training
        to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
        that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
        there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
        Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
        especially religion, has anything close to the truth
        for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.

        Prometheus




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      • tomleafeater
        ... HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can t handle it? ... The
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 4, 2007
          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
          <zoey_true@...> wrote:
          >
          > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the
          HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
          anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't
          handle it?
          >
          > curious, zoey....


          The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
          groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
          surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
          letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
          delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
          would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.

          You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
          think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
          books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.

          The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
          he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the other
          talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
          special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
          full of egos, no more.

          Kent




          >
          > prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          > Hello All,
          > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
          > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
          > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
          > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
          > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
          > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
          > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
          > and dream experiences or interventions by the
          > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
          > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
          > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
          > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
          > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
          > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
          > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
          >
          > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
          > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
          > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
          > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
          > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
          >
          > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
          > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
          > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
          > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
          > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
          > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
          > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
          >
          > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
          > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
          > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
          > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
          > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
          > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
          > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
          > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
          > life!
          >
          > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
          > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
          > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
          >
          > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
          > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
          > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
          > walk himself!
          >
          > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
          > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
          > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
          > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
          > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
          > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
          > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
          > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
          >
          > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
          > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
          > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
          > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
          > than the High Initiates?!
          >
          > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
          > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
          > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
          > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
          > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
          > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
          > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
          > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
          > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
          >
        • Zoey Salinger
          you know, i once had this hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is). i
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
            you know, i once had this hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is).  i honestly half-way believed that.  for example, i thought the hi material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates weren't prepared to hear.    -   but i guess it's horse shit all the way to the top.
             
            zoey....

            tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
            wrote:
            >
            > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the
            HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
            anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't
            handle it?
            >
            > curious, zoey....


            The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
            groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
            surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
            letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
            delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
            would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.

            You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
            think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
            books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.

            The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
            he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the other
            talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
            special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
            full of egos, no more.

            Kent




            >
            > prometheus_973 wrote:
            > Hello All,
            > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
            > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
            > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
            > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
            > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
            > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
            > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
            > and dream experiences or interventions by the
            > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
            > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
            > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
            > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
            > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
            > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
            > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
            >
            > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
            > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
            > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
            > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
            > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
            >
            > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
            > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
            > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
            > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
            > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
            > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
            > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
            >
            > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
            > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
            > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
            > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
            > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
            > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
            > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
            > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
            > life!
            >
            > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
            > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
            > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
            >
            > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
            > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
            > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
            > walk himself!
            >
            > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
            > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
            > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
            > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
            > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
            > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
            > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
            > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
            >
            > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
            > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
            > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
            > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
            > than the High Initiates?!
            >
            > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
            > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
            > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
            > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
            > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
            > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
            > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
            > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
            > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
            >





            Yahoo! Groups Links

            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          • Zoey Salinger
            it would be more accurate to surmise that it s horse shit from the top, all the way to the bottom. zoey... Zoey Salinger wrote: you
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
              it would be more accurate to surmise that it's horse shit from the top, all the way to the bottom.  zoey...

              Zoey Salinger <zoey_true@...> wrote:
              you know, i once had this hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is).  i honestly half-way believed that.  for example, i thought the hi material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates weren't prepared to hear.    -   but i guess it's horse shit all the way to the top.
               
              zoey....

              tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
              wrote:
              >
              > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are the
              HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
              anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals can't
              handle it?
              >
              > curious, zoey....


              The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
              groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
              surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
              letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
              delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
              would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.

              You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
              think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
              books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.

              The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
              he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the other
              talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
              special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
              full of egos, no more.

              Kent




              >
              > prometheus_973 wrote:
              > Hello All,
              > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
              > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
              > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
              > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
              > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
              > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
              > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
              > and dream experiences or interventions by the
              > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
              > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
              > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
              > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
              > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
              > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
              > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
              >
              > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
              > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
              > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
              > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
              > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
              >
              > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
              > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
              > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
              > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
              > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
              > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
              > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
              >
              > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
              > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
              > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
              > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
              > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
              > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
              > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
              > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
              > life!
              >
              > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
              > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
              > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
              >
              > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
              > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
              > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
              > walk himself!
              >
              > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
              > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
              > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
              > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
              > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
              > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
              > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
              > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
              >
              > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
              > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
              > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
              > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
              > than the High Initiates?!
              >
              > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
              > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
              > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
              > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
              > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
              > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
              > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
              > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
              > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
              >





              Yahoo! Groups Links

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            • tomleafeater
              Your comments, Zoey, remind me of my own thinking back before I became an h.i. I thought that when I reached the higher initiations, all would be okay and I d
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
                Your comments, Zoey, remind me of my own thinking back before I
                became an h.i. I thought that when I reached the higher initiations,
                all would be okay and I'd have found all the answers I'd been
                seeking. I think a lot of eckists believe this will happen for them.
                So when they get the those initiations, and the novelty wears off in
                a year or so, they begin to realize they're really no different than
                they were before. This is when a lot of eckists begin to rethink
                eckankar. They begin to release the grip a bit, and begin to see a
                little more objectively for the first time in all their years in
                eckankar.

                I remember going to seminars and being put off by what I saw in Klemp
                and the H.I.s. Everything seemed fake and phony, superficial and
                based on status. I'd sit at the H.I. gatherings at the seminars and
                couldn't believe my eyes. People were clearly strutting about, trying
                to be oh-so-spiritual, but it all looked shallow. Klemp became boring
                and too stiff and pious. Eckankar has its own brand of
                conventionality, its own conventional wisdom.

                My H.I. friends, I began to realize, were incapable of thinking
                outside the eckankar box. If I phrased a thought in a way that
                wasn't "spiritually correct" according to eckankar conventional
                wisdom I'd get that raised eyebrow look. It began to seem really
                limiting. And Klemp was one of the worst examples of all that I'm
                stating here. Seminars became insufferable.

                The hard core true believers who won't even dare to peak beneath the
                veil are a curious bunch. These are the real cultists. Some of these
                folks are so convinced 'up is down' they think anyone who says
                otherwise is 'spinning.' Truly strange. How can people become so
                lacking in basic curiosity that they don't even dare try on a
                different point of view just to see if it at all fits? That was never
                my style, and so eckankar was always a source of limitation, which
                now I realize, looking back on it all.

                I am so incredibly glad I got out of that trap. You know, we use that
                word 'trap' a lot to describe eckankar, but it really is such a
                quagmire to get stuck in eckankar limbo.

                Kent



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
                <zoey_true@...> wrote:
                >
                > it would be more accurate to surmise that it's horse shit from the
                top, all the way to the bottom. zoey...
                >
                > Zoey Salinger <zoey_true@...> wrote: you know, i once had this
                hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all
                my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is). i
                honestly half-way believed that. for example, i thought the hi
                material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but
                were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates
                weren't prepared to hear. - but i guess it's horse shit all the
                way to the top.
                >
                > zoey....
                >
                > tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are
                the
                > HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
                > anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals
                can't
                > handle it?
                > >
                > > curious, zoey....
                >
                >
                > The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
                > groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
                > surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
                > letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
                > delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
                > would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.
                >
                > You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
                > think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
                > books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.
                >
                > The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
                > he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the
                other
                > talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
                > special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
                > full of egos, no more.
                >
                > Kent
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > prometheus_973
                > wrote:
                > > Hello All,
                > > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
                > > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
                > > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
                > > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
                > > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
                > > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
                > > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
                > > and dream experiences or interventions by the
                > > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
                > > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
                > > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
                > > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
                > > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
                > > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
                > > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
                > >
                > > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
                > > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
                > > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
                > > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
                > > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
                > >
                > > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
                > > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
                > > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
                > > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
                > > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
                > > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
                > > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
                > >
                > > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
                > > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
                > > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
                > > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
                > > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
                > > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
                > > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
                > > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
                > > life!
                > >
                > > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
                > > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
                > > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
                > >
                > > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
                > > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
                > > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
                > > walk himself!
                > >
                > > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
                > > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
                > > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
                > > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
                > > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
                > > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
                > > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
                > > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
                > >
                > > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
                > > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
                > > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
                > > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
                > > than the High Initiates?!
                > >
                > > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
                > > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
                > > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
                > > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
                > > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
                > > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
                > > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
                > > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
                > always stay connected to friends.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Need Mail bonding?
                > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                >
              • mishmisha9
                At the eck seminars, chelas are judged by the letter on their badges--A, B, or C. Sit in a round table discussion and listen and watch at how chelas re-act to
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 5, 2007
                  At the eck seminars, chelas are judged by the letter on their
                  badges--A, B, or C. Sit in a round table discussion and listen
                  and watch at how chelas re-act to what one says according
                  to their badge letter. An "A" is usually tolerated, a "B" might
                  be a bit interesting, but hey the "C" has the higher and better
                  words! LOL! Also, notice how chelas will separate off according
                  to the badge designation. I was standing with a group of higher
                  initiates who all received hugs from this highly esteemed eckist
                  who when she saw me with my lower initiation badge turned her
                  back and ignored me. Everyone in that group was individually
                  greeted by her with a hug--5 out of 6 chelas, that is--except me!
                  Well, that was impressive for me! I wasn't the only one who
                  noted this shunning/avoidance of me, the lower initiate! : ) But
                  talk about divine love! LOL!

                  Anyway, I'm sure the same old stuff will be going on at the
                  spring time seminar this weekend. Much ado about nothing.
                  Chelas running around setting up chairs and tables, microphones,
                  pamplets, donation boxes, etc. Little Harry will eventually show up
                  to give his usual boring rambling talk on Saturday night. Funny,
                  though, how cold it is up there in Minneapolis right now! I wonder
                  why the mahanta isn't conjuring up some warmer weather for
                  this great event? Maybe, it's because he can't. He's a fake and
                  has no powers!

                  As for Etznab's post, I had a problem with his word "apparently."
                  It seemed to be a pointed attempt at concluding something had
                  taken place when in fact it is fiction. Posting comments like that
                  are confusing--especially, on ESA, where seekers are looking for
                  truth based on facts about the history and con of eckankar and its
                  leaders. Etznab and others can certainly "imagine" what they want,
                  but I take issue when it is presented as if it actually happened.

                  Mish



                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Your comments, Zoey, remind me of my own thinking back before I
                  > became an h.i. I thought that when I reached the higher initiations,
                  > all would be okay and I'd have found all the answers I'd been
                  > seeking. I think a lot of eckists believe this will happen for them.
                  > So when they get the those initiations, and the novelty wears off in
                  > a year or so, they begin to realize they're really no different than
                  > they were before. This is when a lot of eckists begin to rethink
                  > eckankar. They begin to release the grip a bit, and begin to see a
                  > little more objectively for the first time in all their years in
                  > eckankar.
                  >
                  > I remember going to seminars and being put off by what I saw in Klemp
                  > and the H.I.s. Everything seemed fake and phony, superficial and
                  > based on status. I'd sit at the H.I. gatherings at the seminars and
                  > couldn't believe my eyes. People were clearly strutting about, trying
                  > to be oh-so-spiritual, but it all looked shallow. Klemp became boring
                  > and too stiff and pious. Eckankar has its own brand of
                  > conventionality, its own conventional wisdom.
                  >
                  > My H.I. friends, I began to realize, were incapable of thinking
                  > outside the eckankar box. If I phrased a thought in a way that
                  > wasn't "spiritually correct" according to eckankar conventional
                  > wisdom I'd get that raised eyebrow look. It began to seem really
                  > limiting. And Klemp was one of the worst examples of all that I'm
                  > stating here. Seminars became insufferable.
                  >
                  > The hard core true believers who won't even dare to peak beneath the
                  > veil are a curious bunch. These are the real cultists. Some of these
                  > folks are so convinced 'up is down' they think anyone who says
                  > otherwise is 'spinning.' Truly strange. How can people become so
                  > lacking in basic curiosity that they don't even dare try on a
                  > different point of view just to see if it at all fits? That was never
                  > my style, and so eckankar was always a source of limitation, which
                  > now I realize, looking back on it all.
                  >
                  > I am so incredibly glad I got out of that trap. You know, we use that
                  > word 'trap' a lot to describe eckankar, but it really is such a
                  > quagmire to get stuck in eckankar limbo.
                  >
                  > Kent
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
                  > <zoey_true@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > it would be more accurate to surmise that it's horse shit from the
                  > top, all the way to the bottom. zoey...
                  > >
                  > > Zoey Salinger <zoey_true@> wrote: you know, i once had this
                  > hopeful idea that the hi - only material would eventually answer all
                  > my questions (when i reached that exalted status, that is). i
                  > honestly half-way believed that. for example, i thought the hi
                  > material might reveal the fact that eck masters weren't real, but
                  > were used for some stragetical spiriutal reason that lower initiates
                  > weren't prepared to hear. - but i guess it's horse shit all the
                  > way to the top.
                  > >
                  > > zoey....
                  > >
                  > > tomleafeater <tianyue@> wrote:
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey Salinger
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > i left eckankar well before i ever reached HI status. what are
                  > the
                  > > HI only books all about? why can only HIs read them? is there
                  > > anything in them that is so revolutionary that ordinary mortals
                  > can't
                  > > handle it?
                  > > >
                  > > > curious, zoey....
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The h.i. books by Klempomaniac are just as empty of anything
                  > > groundbreaking or meaningful as his other books. I was rather
                  > > surprised when I first read them. The same applies to the h.i.
                  > > letters. I'd say the reason they're only for H.I.'s is because HK
                  > > delves into h.i. problems and organizational conflicts, etc., that
                  > > would be unseamly and revealing if non-h.i.'s read them.
                  > >
                  > > You would laugh out loud if you ever read one of these books. Just
                  > > think of any other book HK has written, and you know what the H.I.
                  > > books are like. Nothing worth writing home about.
                  > >
                  > > The same applies to the H.I. meetings at seminars that HK leads (if
                  > > he still is doing this). Nothing at all that different than the
                  > other
                  > > talks he gives. But it does make the H.I.s feel really, really
                  > > special! They all get to hang together to see and be seen. A room
                  > > full of egos, no more.
                  > >
                  > > Kent
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > prometheus_973
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Hello All,
                  > > > April 6-8, in Minneapolis will be more of the same
                  > > > as the carrots are dangled in front of the glassy eyed
                  > > > ECKists. Yep, there will be more promises of new
                  > > > insights, new understandings, unfoldment, service,
                  > > > surrender, and becoming a Co-worker with God,
                  > > > a Co-worker with SUGMAD, a Co-worker with the
                  > > > Mahanta, etc. There will also be talks with testimonials,
                  > > > and dream experiences or interventions by the
                  > > > Mahanta or another ECK Master. Yes, the imagination
                  > > > will used, as well as, embellishments to tell these
                  > > > Reader's Digest type of stories. There will be nothing
                  > > > really "new" for the individual Soul, especially, for
                  > > > H.I.s! Of course, there will be more trainings available
                  > > > and H.I.s will be encouraged to start or join monthly
                  > > > H.I. book discussions and H.I. Letter discussions.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Masters 4 Discourse is the last discourse and it's
                  > > > 15 years old (more or less). There has been nothing
                  > > > available to H.I.s, except, the old H.I. Only books.
                  > > > Even the most recent WMSL and WWMSL (Leadership
                  > > > book and Workbook) are about 5 years old!
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp & Company will, probably, stress how important
                  > > > it is to get into or start a "new" monthly book discussion.
                  > > > All total these book discussions will last AT LEAST
                  > > > ANOTHER 5 or MORE years before H.I.s could complete
                  > > > these. And, these discussions will be on older material
                  > > > when HK's Mahanta Consciousness was less developed
                  > > > than it is now... and that's only Mid-Astral by now! LOL!
                  > > >
                  > > > ECKists will be spending their money on Seminar entry,
                  > > > Hotels, Transportation, meals, tips, and the purchase of
                  > > > ECK materials in the Bookroom. It will be fun to see old
                  > > > friends and to meet new ones, but sad as well. Some
                  > > > people won't be there. Have they translated, or have
                  > > > they left ECKANKAR? Or, maybe they just didn't have
                  > > > the time, money, and the desire to come to another
                  > > > boring ECK Seminar! Maybe they're too busy living
                  > > > life!
                  > > >
                  > > > What's the point in physical travel to a spiritual seminar?
                  > > > Can't a true Mahanta have ECK Seminars on the INNER?
                  > > > This Inner training, etc. is one of the promises isn't it!
                  > > >
                  > > > If H.I.'s can't have Inner ECK Seminars then what's the
                  > > > point! Where and when do those Higher ECK Initiations
                  > > > kick in and begin to work if the Mahanta can't walk the
                  > > > walk himself!
                  > > >
                  > > > Where does the fault lie? The Higher Initiations shouldn't
                  > > > be given to those with a Lower Consciousness and if they
                  > > > are given then whose fault is that! The ECKist receives
                  > > > the Pink Slip from Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta. Therefore,
                  > > > H.I.'s should be qualified and able to do all that is required
                  > > > of at least their last Initiation! A 6th should have at least
                  > > > mastered the requirements of the 5th Plane before becoming
                  > > > a 6th! The same goes for all initiations!
                  > > >
                  > > > At the Seminar or in the Local Area ECKists should just
                  > > > look around and observe their fellow H.I.s when these
                  > > > people acting on their best behaviour. What do you see
                  > > > and hear? Why are there lower initiates that seem higher
                  > > > than the High Initiates?!
                  > > >
                  > > > Closely listen to what they say and how they say it.
                  > > > Does this depict a person that has advanced training
                  > > > to become an ECK Master? And, are there non-ECKists
                  > > > that seem to have just as high of consciousness? Sure
                  > > > there are! That's just the point. The power of the ECK
                  > > > Initiations is all in one's mind. No one person, and
                  > > > especially religion, has anything close to the truth
                  > > > for everyone. Only Soul has the Truth for Itself.
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                  > > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
                  > > always stay connected to friends.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Need Mail bonding?
                  > > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                  > >
                  >
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