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Re: PT: Rebazar the Real LEM & SAT NAM the Inner...

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  • zoey_true
    hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi s whole- heartedly. let s face it; were it not for the hierarchy in eckankar, lowers, middles, highers, the
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
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      hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
      heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in eckankar,
      lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
      is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at being
      superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out with
      a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...

      ------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > Hi, Etznab!
      >
      > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
      > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
      > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
      > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
      > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
      > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
      > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
      > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
      > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
      > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
      > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
      > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
      > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
      > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
      > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with tiers
      > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
      > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
      > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful not
      > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
      > population.
      >
      > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
      anything
      > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
      > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
      fascinating
      > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation! LOL!
      >
      > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
      > religion! : )
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > etznab@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
      > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
      > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
      > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
      > >
      > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
      clarification
      > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
      > >
      > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
      > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
      > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
      > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
      > >
      > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
      > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
      > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
      > >
      > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of the
      > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
      > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
      > > spective it seems.
      > >
      > > Etznab
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > **************************************
      > > See what's free at
      > > http://www.aol.com
      > >
      >
    • tomleafeater
      ... eckankar, ... being ... with ... Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar s whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 3, 2007
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
        <zoey_true@...> wrote:
        >
        > hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
        > heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in
        eckankar,
        > lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
        > is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at
        being
        > superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out
        with
        > a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...
        >


        Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar's
        whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My god, look at
        Marman's and Rich's dripping condescension that is only barely
        disguised over at A.R.E. These eckists are addicted to their status
        as the lords over the rest of humanity. They can't break away from it
        long enough to see the grip it has over them. It is so, so strange.

        Kent


        > ------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Hi, Etznab!
        > >
        > > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
        > > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
        > > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
        > > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
        > > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
        > > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
        > > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
        > > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
        > > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
        > > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
        > > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
        > > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
        > > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
        > > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
        > > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with
        tiers
        > > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
        > > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
        > > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful
        not
        > > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
        > > population.
        > >
        > > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
        > anything
        > > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
        > > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
        > fascinating
        > > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation!
        LOL!
        > >
        > > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
        > > religion! : )
        > >
        > > Mish
        > >
        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
        > > etznab@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
        > > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
        > > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
        > > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
        > > >
        > > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
        > clarification
        > > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
        > > >
        > > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
        > > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
        > > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
        > > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
        > > >
        > > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
        > > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
        > > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
        > > >
        > > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of
        the
        > > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
        > > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
        > > > spective it seems.
        > > >
        > > > Etznab
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > **************************************
        > > > See what's free at
        > > > http://www.aol.com
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Zoey Salinger
        eckists absolutely believe themselves to be the most superior people on the planet. the chosen few. non-eckists are worthy of pity and compassion.
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 4, 2007
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          eckists absolutely believe themselves to be the most superior people on the planet.  the chosen few.  non-eckists are worthy of pity and compassion.  eck-deserters are simply fools.  oh, i thought it myself.  when i was in it.  i know exactly how they think.  they put on that benign 'allowing' mask, stating that people are free to choose, while all the time clucking their tongues over the stupidity of humanity. 
           
          here is a very sad phenomenon:  i have seen very sincere people walk into eckankar.  some sense of searching, or longing, or genuine curiosity, brought them through the door.  whatever it was, it was real.  but quicker than a duck jumps a june bug, they have replaced that genuine search with INITIATION.  behaving, believing, saying, joining, working, conforming, etc etc in order to get that next higher number.  and the precious spiritual longing is diverted and subverted into an obscene ego corruption.  and this is only possible because the members simply do not understand what spiritual process is, or what the experience of consciousness growth feels like.  how it changes you.  if they had once experienced it, they would surely know the uselessness of some butt hole telling you that you just got a bigger number. 
           
          zoey...

          tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
          wrote:
          >
          > hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
          > heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in
          eckankar,
          > lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
          > is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at
          being
          > superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out
          with
          > a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...
          >


          Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar's
          whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My god, look at
          Marman's and Rich's dripping condescension that is only barely
          disguised over at A.R.E. These eckists are addicted to their status
          as the lords over the rest of humanity. They can't break away from it
          long enough to see the grip it has over them. It is so, so strange.

          Kent


          > ------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Hi, Etznab!
          > >
          > > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
          > > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
          > > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
          > > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
          > > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
          > > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
          > > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
          > > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
          > > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
          > > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
          > > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
          > > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
          > > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
          > > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
          > > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with
          tiers
          > > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
          > > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
          > > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful
          not
          > > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
          > > population.
          > >
          > > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
          > anything
          > > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
          > > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
          > fascinating
          > > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation!
          LOL!
          > >
          > > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
          > > religion! : )
          > >
          > > Mish
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
          > > etznab@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
          > > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
          > > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
          > > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
          > > >
          > > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
          > clarification
          > > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
          > > >
          > > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
          > > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
          > > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
          > > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
          > > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
          > > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
          > > >
          > > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of
          the
          > > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
          > > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
          > > > spective it seems.
          > > >
          > > > Etznab
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > **************************************
          > > > See what's free at
          > > > http://www.aol.com.
          > > >
          > >
          >





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        • mishmisha9
          Hi, Zoey, Kent, Etznab and All! Kent and Zoey, excellent posts. Zoey, you especially hit the nail on the head about the corruption of ego in eckankar--that is
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 4, 2007
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            Hi, Zoey, Kent, Etznab and All!

            Kent and Zoey, excellent posts. Zoey, you especially hit the nail
            on the head about the corruption of ego in eckankar--that is
            where the path takes you!

            Etznab, you wrote:

            " Apparently, Paul Twitchell was dialoging with more than Rebazar
            Tarzs -(his name first mentioned in 1964?) in the later 1950s."

            I have to disagree with your use of the word "apparently" as this
            seems like an attempt to give validity to Paul Twitchell's lies. PT
            was not dialoging with Rebazar Tarzs or other fake masters unless
            you want to stipulate that "apparently" PT had imaginary friends. : )

            I agree that words must be looked at in the context of how they are
            used. Liars use them to manipulate people, so it is apparent that
            one should not value what liars say--it's a thing about trusting the
            messenger . . . or not! One can call this discernment as well!

            Mish

            *****************************************************************
            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey
            Salinger <zoey_true@...> wrote:
            >
            > eckists absolutely believe themselves to be the most superior
            people on the planet. the chosen few. non-eckists are worthy of
            pity and compassion. eck-deserters are simply fools. oh, i thought
            it myself. when i was in it. i know exactly how they think. they put
            on that benign 'allowing' mask, stating that people are free to choose,
            while all the time clucking their tongues over the stupidity of humanity.
            >
            > here is a very sad phenomenon: i have seen very sincere people
            walk into eckankar. some sense of searching, or longing, or genuine
            curiosity, brought them through the door. whatever it was, it was real.
            but quicker than a duck jumps a june bug, they have replaced that
            genuine search with INITIATION. behaving, believing, saying, joining,
            working, conforming, etc etc in order to get that next higher number.
            and the precious spiritual longing is diverted and subverted into an
            obscene ego corruption. and this is only possible because the members
            simply do not understand what spiritual process is, or what the
            experience of consciousness growth feels like. how it changes you.
            if they had once experienced it, they would surely know the uselessness
            of some butt hole telling you that you just got a bigger number.
            >
            > zoey...
            >
            > tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
            > > heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in
            > eckankar,
            > > lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
            > > is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at
            > being
            > > superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out
            > with
            > > a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...
            > >
            >
            >
            > Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar's
            > whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My god, look at
            > Marman's and Rich's dripping condescension that is only barely
            > disguised over at A.R.E. These eckists are addicted to their status
            > as the lords over the rest of humanity. They can't break away from it
            > long enough to see the grip it has over them. It is so, so strange.
            >
            > Kent
            >
            >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > Hi, Etznab!
            > > >
            > > > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
            > > > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
            > > > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
            > > > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
            > > > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
            > > > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
            > > > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
            > > > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
            > > > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
            > > > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
            > > > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
            > > > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
            > > > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
            > > > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
            > > > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with
            > tiers
            > > > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
            > > > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
            > > > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful
            > not
            > > > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
            > > > population.
            > > >
            > > > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
            > > anything
            > > > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
            > > > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
            > > fascinating
            > > > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation!
            > LOL!
            > > >
            > > > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
            > > > religion! : )
            > > >
            > > > Mish
            > > >
            > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > etznab@ wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
            > > > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
            > > > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
            > > > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
            > > > >
            > > > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
            > > clarification
            > > > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
            > > > >
            > > > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
            > > > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
            > > > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
            > > > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
            > > > >
            > > > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
            > > > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
            > > > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
            > > > >
            > > > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of
            > the
            > > > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
            > > > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
            > > > > spective it seems.
            > > > >
            > > > > Etznab
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > **************************************
            > > > > See what's free at
            > > > > http://www.aol.com
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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