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  • Lucy Wisecup
    Hi, All! I found this on another website. The writer gives permission to re-post, omitting his/her name. Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:14:09 -0000 Subject:
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 15 7:51 PM
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      Hi, All!

      I found this on another website. The writer gives permission to re-post, omitting his/her name.


      Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:14:09 -0000
      Subject:  Arahata Training


        The RESA in my area is bullying all the Eckists presumably
      with orders on high to get more ARAHATA TRAINING. All area
      arahahas who have not had arahata training in the past 5 years
      must get two days worth coming up soon or they will no longer
      be allowed to host groups, chants or satsangs or function as a
      speaker or a helper, even to host at the center anymore and hand
      out pamphlets to seekers until they have completed it.
          This though the same training book is being used that has
      been previously published. Homework will be assigned and due
      at the seminar. Must buy book if you don't have it.
      Wouldnt this be a little insulting if someone were a longtime
      dedicated eckist voluntering but working weekends when the
      Big Indoctrination is to take  place? To be fair it does say
      call if you can't make it and some alternative arrangements can
      be made. Sorry your book class will be running with someone else.
         I guess its so eckists will all be reading from the same
      indoctrination book and don't mess anything up by being
      unique ,dare I say it, individuals. The indoctrination can
      no longer even be completed in a day like when I took it These people
      have a demanding master. I sincerely think that 2 days spent with 
      your kids is a  much better use of your time  expressing your "golden
      heart " if a person were still to follow this . In fact we could make
      a list of better uses of your time on the Sundays
      Get muffler fixed
      Pick up some trash in neighborhood as snow melts to reveal junkland
      Go see movie " The Aviator" or Sideways both recommended.
      Waddle around park with dog to work off winter flab
      Go to half empty church where they actually try and help people
      in community.
      Sleep In
      etc
      I guess they'll be spending part of two weekends with the one they love.

                                                     



      Permission is granted here to repost if you wish to other
      sites since this  will be the only place I'm posting it- remove my
      name & address. I don't need to hear from any of them






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    • prometheus_973
      ... Well, I read this and was amazed to hear two things. One is that this RESA is kind of behind the times. There are new up-dated leadership trainings and
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 17 9:35 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Lucy Wisecup
        <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
        >Hi Mish,

        Well, I read this and was amazed to hear two things. One is that
        this RESA is kind of behind the times. There are new up-dated
        leadership trainings and materials for Eck leaders (both High and
        Low Initiates). Usually, Arahata Training does not have to be re-
        taken for those who have been actively involved (within a one or two
        year period) as a satsang Arahata, doing intros, or book
        discussions, etc.

        The second amazing thing is that this Eckist doing the complaining
        doesn't seem to get it. Yes, everyone has to be on the same page
        when dealing with the public as a representative of their religion.
        Yes, this usually means that you have to play the game and be a good
        trooper and march in step and sometimes keep your opinions to
        yourself. But, this lack of freedom is the price an Eckist pays for
        those initiations. If you don't play the game and play it well you
        won't advance. One has to take all the trainings, be in or teach a
        Satsang, attend the EWS monthly, and volunteer to fill a position
        within the local area or the statewide level. It also helps to
        volunteer at major Eck seminars and be seen doing so by your state's
        H.I.s and attend the leadership workshops (some that they will
        attend) as well. One more thing though... try to find, read,
        remember, and follow all of the guidelines. Oh, always act happy
        (even when you aren't) put on a happy face and always talk about the
        Mahanta's love whether you believe it or not. Never say anything
        negative! It's good PR for you. One more thing... talk less and
        listen more. Oh, even if you aren't an H.I.... follow the four Zoas.

        This is pretty much what an Eckist has to do in order to climb the
        ladder for those higher initiations and positions of power within
        the RESA structure. Eventually, one will receive the higher
        initiations. Currently: 15-18 plus years for the fifth; 18-25 plus
        years for the sixth; 25-35 plus years for the seventh; and forget
        the eighth!

        This especially isn't worth it when one finds out that the
        initiations are a scam. Just look around at the screwed-up little
        robots that are H.I.s. Paul really did a good job at scamming us all.
        Oh well, some of it was fun and interesting!

        Prometheus

        > Hi, All!
        >
        > I found this on another website. The writer gives permission to re-
        post, omitting his/her name.
        >
        >
        > Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:14:09 -0000
        > Subject: Arahata Training
        >
        >
        > The RESA in my area is bullying all the Eckists presumably
        > with orders on high to get more ARAHATA TRAINING. All area
        > arahahas who have not had arahata training in the past 5 years
        > must get two days worth coming up soon or they will no longer
        > be allowed to host groups, chants or satsangs or function as a
        > speaker or a helper, even to host at the center anymore and hand
        > out pamphlets to seekers until they have completed it.
        > This though the same training book is being used that has
        > been previously published. Homework will be assigned and due
        > at the seminar. Must buy book if you don't have it.
        > Wouldnt this be a little insulting if someone were a longtime
        > dedicated eckist voluntering but working weekends when the
        > Big Indoctrination is to take place? To be fair it does say
        > call if you can't make it and some alternative arrangements can
        > be made. Sorry your book class will be running with someone else.
        > I guess its so eckists will all be reading from the same
        > indoctrination book and don't mess anything up by being
        > unique ,dare I say it, individuals. The indoctrination can
        > no longer even be completed in a day like when I took it These
        people
        > have a demanding master. I sincerely think that 2 days spent with
        > your kids is a much better use of your time expressing
        your "golden
        > heart " if a person were still to follow this . In fact we could
        make
        > a list of better uses of your time on the Sundays
        > Get muffler fixed
        > Pick up some trash in neighborhood as snow melts to reveal junkland
        > Go see movie " The Aviator" or Sideways both recommended.
        > Waddle around park with dog to work off winter flab
        > Go to half empty church where they actually try and help people
        > in community.
        > Sleep In
        > etc
        > I guess they'll be spending part of two weekends with the one they
        love.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Permission is granted here to repost if you wish to other
        > sites since this will be the only place I'm posting it- remove my
        > name & address. I don't need to hear from any of them
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • ctecvie
        Hello everybody, ... two ... I had started the eck leadership training when an unforeseeable event occurred: I had finished Ford Johnson s book and left
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 19 7:38 AM
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          Hello everybody,

          > Well, I read this and was amazed to hear two things. One is that
          > this RESA is kind of behind the times. There are new up-dated
          > leadership trainings and materials for Eck leaders (both High and
          > Low Initiates). Usually, Arahata Training does not have to be re-
          > taken for those who have been actively involved (within a one or
          two
          > year period) as a satsang Arahata, doing intros, or book
          > discussions, etc.

          I had started the eck leadership training when an unforeseeable
          event occurred: I had finished Ford Johnson's book and left
          Eckankar! :-) I just gave away the leadership book to a new eckist
          who has not yet the 2nd initiation. Before I sent it away, I read it
          till the end. All I can say is that this is a recruitment book.
          Fortunately I left Eckankar before the real tough part began - to
          actually recruit members! :-)
          >
          > The second amazing thing is that this Eckist doing the complaining
          > doesn't seem to get it. Yes, everyone has to be on the same page
          > when dealing with the public as a representative of their
          religion.

          I think that is a very simple thing called "corporate identity".
          Every company requires this ... and Eckankar is a company, too, even
          if it claims to be the highest spiritual path. :-)Very mundane ...

          > Yes, this usually means that you have to play the game and be a
          good
          > trooper and march in step and sometimes keep your opinions to
          > yourself. But, this lack of freedom is the price an Eckist pays
          for
          > those initiations. If you don't play the game and play it well you
          > won't advance. One has to take all the trainings, be in or teach a
          > Satsang, attend the EWS monthly, and volunteer to fill a position
          > within the local area or the statewide level. It also helps to
          > volunteer at major Eck seminars and be seen doing so by your
          state's
          > H.I.s and attend the leadership workshops (some that they will
          > attend) as well. One more thing though... try to find, read,
          > remember, and follow all of the guidelines. Oh, always act happy
          > (even when you aren't) put on a happy face and always talk about
          the
          > Mahanta's love whether you believe it or not. Never say anything
          > negative! It's good PR for you. One more thing... talk less and
          > listen more. Oh, even if you aren't an H.I.... follow the four
          Zoas.

          Well now I know why I never could have made it to the 4th! I drank
          wine during an arahata training! I wouldn't have would I have known
          how things are in Eckankar, of course ... because I liked getting
          those initiations. :-) I never served officially or unofficially in
          Eckankar - well, another negative point. I just didn't get it it
          seems. :-)) I did bite back too negative remarks, though. So this
          was already something!
          >
          > This is pretty much what an Eckist has to do in order to climb the
          > ladder for those higher initiations and positions of power within
          > the RESA structure. Eventually, one will receive the higher
          > initiations. Currently: 15-18 plus years for the fifth; 18-25 plus
          > years for the sixth; 25-35 plus years for the seventh; and forget
          > the eighth!

          Well as far as I know the "mahanta" said that it has been
          established that the normal intervals between initiations were 7
          years now. So, you might become a 5th after 23 years, provided that
          you behave yourself ... Cool, isn't it? :-)

          >
          > This especially isn't worth it when one finds out that the
          > initiations are a scam. Just look around at the screwed-up little
          > robots that are H.I.s. Paul really did a good job at scamming us
          all.
          > Oh well, some of it was fun and interesting!

          It was for sure! Even if it was a scam! :-)
          Ingrid
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, Ingrid and Prometheus! I was only a lowly 2nd Initiate when I quit! I had already gotten into a lot of trouble with H.I. s in my area so I think I was
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 19 9:32 AM
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            Hi, Ingrid and Prometheus!

            I was only a lowly 2nd Initiate when I quit! I had already gotten
            into a lot of trouble with H.I.'s in my area so I think I was
            destined at best to remain a 2nd! I just blurted out things too
            much! : ) I will have to post my "out of body" experience that riled
            up two H.I.'s--the local director (a 7th Initiate) and a 6th
            Initiate who is being mentored by the state's spiritual services
            director and longtime major seminar speaker (and who claims to be
            on an inside direct track to Harold.) : ) I was getting myself in
            deeper and deeper trouble, it seems.

            Now, when I look at all of these eckists and all the stuff that was
            taking place, I can't help but think "much ado about nothing." I
            also had the training book, but I had just received it and had not
            read any of it before tossing it in the trash! I did read a lot of
            Eck books, including all of Harold's transcripts and several others
            he "wrote." I discovered a lot of recycled stories in all of them--
            very little new stuff in any of it. And of course, the stories were
            not his for the most part, but those taken from the dutiful eckists
            who sent him their "enlightening" stories!

            Well, enough for now! Thanks, Prometheus for setting up this site.
            It's a nice place to share our Eckankar experiences. It will
            probably help others to realize that they are not alone in leaving
            eckankar and that the reasons for leaving are basically universal
            for us--we all woke up to the sham!

            Mish


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
            <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello everybody,
            >
            > > Well, I read this and was amazed to hear two things. One is that
            > > this RESA is kind of behind the times. There are new up-dated
            > > leadership trainings and materials for Eck leaders (both High
            and
            > > Low Initiates). Usually, Arahata Training does not have to be re-
            > > taken for those who have been actively involved (within a one or
            > two
            > > year period) as a satsang Arahata, doing intros, or book
            > > discussions, etc.
            >
            > I had started the eck leadership training when an unforeseeable
            > event occurred: I had finished Ford Johnson's book and left
            > Eckankar! :-) I just gave away the leadership book to a new eckist
            > who has not yet the 2nd initiation. Before I sent it away, I read
            it
            > till the end. All I can say is that this is a recruitment book.
            > Fortunately I left Eckankar before the real tough part began - to
            > actually recruit members! :-)
            > >
            > > The second amazing thing is that this Eckist doing the
            complaining
            > > doesn't seem to get it. Yes, everyone has to be on the same page
            > > when dealing with the public as a representative of their
            > religion.
            >
            > I think that is a very simple thing called "corporate identity".
            > Every company requires this ... and Eckankar is a company, too,
            even
            > if it claims to be the highest spiritual path. :-)Very mundane ...
            >
            > > Yes, this usually means that you have to play the game and be a
            > good
            > > trooper and march in step and sometimes keep your opinions to
            > > yourself. But, this lack of freedom is the price an Eckist pays
            > for
            > > those initiations. If you don't play the game and play it well
            you
            > > won't advance. One has to take all the trainings, be in or teach
            a
            > > Satsang, attend the EWS monthly, and volunteer to fill a
            position
            > > within the local area or the statewide level. It also helps to
            > > volunteer at major Eck seminars and be seen doing so by your
            > state's
            > > H.I.s and attend the leadership workshops (some that they will
            > > attend) as well. One more thing though... try to find, read,
            > > remember, and follow all of the guidelines. Oh, always act happy
            > > (even when you aren't) put on a happy face and always talk about
            > the
            > > Mahanta's love whether you believe it or not. Never say anything
            > > negative! It's good PR for you. One more thing... talk less and
            > > listen more. Oh, even if you aren't an H.I.... follow the four
            > Zoas.
            >
            > Well now I know why I never could have made it to the 4th! I drank
            > wine during an arahata training! I wouldn't have would I have
            known
            > how things are in Eckankar, of course ... because I liked getting
            > those initiations. :-) I never served officially or unofficially
            in
            > Eckankar - well, another negative point. I just didn't get it it
            > seems. :-)) I did bite back too negative remarks, though. So this
            > was already something!
            > >
            > > This is pretty much what an Eckist has to do in order to climb
            the
            > > ladder for those higher initiations and positions of power
            within
            > > the RESA structure. Eventually, one will receive the higher
            > > initiations. Currently: 15-18 plus years for the fifth; 18-25
            plus
            > > years for the sixth; 25-35 plus years for the seventh; and
            forget
            > > the eighth!
            >
            > Well as far as I know the "mahanta" said that it has been
            > established that the normal intervals between initiations were 7
            > years now. So, you might become a 5th after 23 years, provided
            that
            > you behave yourself ... Cool, isn't it? :-)
            >
            > >
            > > This especially isn't worth it when one finds out that the
            > > initiations are a scam. Just look around at the screwed-up
            little
            > > robots that are H.I.s. Paul really did a good job at scamming us
            > all.
            > > Oh well, some of it was fun and interesting!
            >
            > It was for sure! Even if it was a scam! :-)
            > Ingrid
          • ctecvie
            Hello Mish, ... I think, too, that it was best for you to remain a 2nd! :-) In your lowly state of consciousness you shouldn t have gotten into any trouble
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 22 6:50 AM
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              Hello Mish,

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Ingrid and Prometheus!
              >
              > I was only a lowly 2nd Initiate when I quit! I had already gotten
              > into a lot of trouble with H.I.'s in my area so I think I was
              > destined at best to remain a 2nd!

              I think, too, that it was best for you to remain a 2nd! :-) In your
              lowly state of consciousness you shouldn't have gotten into any
              trouble because you didn't understand anything yet! Anyway, when I
              was a lowly 2nd I didn't ask much and most certainly didn't get into
              any trouble! ;-))

              >I just blurted out things too
              > much! : ) I will have to post my "out of body" experience that
              riled
              > up two H.I.'s--the local director (a 7th Initiate) and a 6th
              > Initiate who is being mentored by the state's spiritual services
              > director and longtime major seminar speaker (and who claims to be
              > on an inside direct track to Harold.) : ) I was getting myself in
              > deeper and deeper trouble, it seems.

              I'm looking forward to your OBE!
              >
              > Now, when I look at all of these eckists and all the stuff that was
              > taking place, I can't help but think "much ado about nothing." I
              > also had the training book, but I had just received it and had not
              > read any of it before tossing it in the trash! I did read a lot of
              > Eck books, including all of Harold's transcripts and several others
              > he "wrote." I discovered a lot of recycled stories in all of them--
              > very little new stuff in any of it. And of course, the stories were
              > not his for the most part, but those taken from the dutiful eckists
              > who sent him their "enlightening" stories!

              He recycled many of the initiate reports' stories in his talks as
              well. When I heard that it was not only Harold who read the reports,
              I stopped sending them. I still wrote them, but only for me. It was
              good that I stopped sending them I think.
              >
              > Well, enough for now! Thanks, Prometheus for setting up this site.
              > It's a nice place to share our Eckankar experiences. It will
              > probably help others to realize that they are not alone in leaving
              > eckankar and that the reasons for leaving are basically universal
              > for us--we all woke up to the sham!

              Yes this site is cool! I have found out recently that life goes on
              and doesn't care at all whether we are in Eckankar or not - all we
              have to do, in my opinion, is to open ourselves to the greater force,
              to Spirit, and that is that!

              Ingrid
            • prometheus_973
              ... Hello Ingrid and Mish, Yes, I too want to hear about the OBE of Mish s. I wonder how the Spiritual Skills Seminar went? Not really! LOL! I ve been to
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 28 5:20 PM
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                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
                <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
                >
                Hello Ingrid and Mish,
                Yes, I too want to hear about the OBE of Mish's. I wonder how the
                Spiritual Skills Seminar went? Not really! LOL! I've been to enough
                meetings, trainings, and workshops to know that it is basically for
                those who are new to intros, book discussions, etc. and is mostly
                just a pep talk for the experienced and active "settlers" (those in
                support positions) and "explorers" (vahana/missionaries). Sometimes
                there is a slightly new focus or some new techniques shared. But
                actually, I always got the update from the RESA Star on new or
                successful Arahata/Vahana methods that were just re-enforced in the
                workshops. The problem that most Eckists have is that they are
                introverts, their spiritual experiences seem far and few inbetween,
                and what they have experienced spiritually is private and personal
                and cannot be easily shared. Other Eckists have no trouble making up
                or telling their stories. Some Eckists just like to be the center of
                attention. They love to be admired. I can see this with those who
                have left Eckankar as well. It's tough on some of these egomanics
                because they no longer have those Higher Initiations.

                Prometheus



                > Hello Mish,
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi, Ingrid and Prometheus!
                > >
                > > I was only a lowly 2nd Initiate when I quit! I had already
                gotten
                > > into a lot of trouble with H.I.'s in my area so I think I was
                > > destined at best to remain a 2nd!
                >
                > I think, too, that it was best for you to remain a 2nd! :-) In
                your
                > lowly state of consciousness you shouldn't have gotten into any
                > trouble because you didn't understand anything yet! Anyway, when I
                > was a lowly 2nd I didn't ask much and most certainly didn't get
                into
                > any trouble! ;-))
                >
                > >I just blurted out things too
                > > much! : ) I will have to post my "out of body" experience that
                > riled
                > > up two H.I.'s--the local director (a 7th Initiate) and a 6th
                > > Initiate who is being mentored by the state's spiritual services
                > > director and longtime major seminar speaker (and who claims to
                be
                > > on an inside direct track to Harold.) : ) I was getting myself
                in
                > > deeper and deeper trouble, it seems.
                >
                > I'm looking forward to your OBE!
                > >
                > > Now, when I look at all of these eckists and all the stuff that
                was
                > > taking place, I can't help but think "much ado about nothing." I
                > > also had the training book, but I had just received it and had
                not
                > > read any of it before tossing it in the trash! I did read a lot
                of
                > > Eck books, including all of Harold's transcripts and several
                others
                > > he "wrote." I discovered a lot of recycled stories in all of
                them--
                > > very little new stuff in any of it. And of course, the stories
                were
                > > not his for the most part, but those taken from the dutiful
                eckists
                > > who sent him their "enlightening" stories!
                >
                > He recycled many of the initiate reports' stories in his talks as
                > well. When I heard that it was not only Harold who read the
                reports,
                > I stopped sending them. I still wrote them, but only for me. It
                was
                > good that I stopped sending them I think.
                > >
                > > Well, enough for now! Thanks, Prometheus for setting up this
                site.
                > > It's a nice place to share our Eckankar experiences. It will
                > > probably help others to realize that they are not alone in
                leaving
                > > eckankar and that the reasons for leaving are basically
                universal
                > > for us--we all woke up to the sham!
                >
                > Yes this site is cool! I have found out recently that life goes on
                > and doesn't care at all whether we are in Eckankar or not - all we
                > have to do, in my opinion, is to open ourselves to the greater
                force,
                > to Spirit, and that is that!
                >
                > Ingrid
              • mishmisha9
                Hi, Ingrid! I m sorry I haven t posted my OBE yet, but I will eventually! I have a feeling that many unfortunately will be able to relate to the story. Mish
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 30 4:22 PM
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                  Hi, Ingrid!

                  I'm sorry I haven't posted my OBE yet, but I will eventually! I have
                  a feeling that many unfortunately will be able to relate to the
                  story.

                  Mish




                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
                  <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Mish,
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                  > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi, Ingrid and Prometheus!
                  > >
                  > > I was only a lowly 2nd Initiate when I quit! I had already
                  gotten
                  > > into a lot of trouble with H.I.'s in my area so I think I was
                  > > destined at best to remain a 2nd!
                  >
                  > I think, too, that it was best for you to remain a 2nd! :-) In
                  your
                  > lowly state of consciousness you shouldn't have gotten into any
                  > trouble because you didn't understand anything yet! Anyway, when I
                  > was a lowly 2nd I didn't ask much and most certainly didn't get
                  into
                  > any trouble! ;-))
                  >
                  > >I just blurted out things too
                  > > much! : ) I will have to post my "out of body" experience that
                  > riled
                  > > up two H.I.'s--the local director (a 7th Initiate) and a 6th
                  > > Initiate who is being mentored by the state's spiritual services
                  > > director and longtime major seminar speaker (and who claims to
                  be
                  > > on an inside direct track to Harold.) : ) I was getting myself
                  in
                  > > deeper and deeper trouble, it seems.
                  >
                  > I'm looking forward to your OBE!
                  > >
                  > > Now, when I look at all of these eckists and all the stuff that
                  was
                  > > taking place, I can't help but think "much ado about nothing." I
                  > > also had the training book, but I had just received it and had
                  not
                  > > read any of it before tossing it in the trash! I did read a lot
                  of
                  > > Eck books, including all of Harold's transcripts and several
                  others
                  > > he "wrote." I discovered a lot of recycled stories in all of
                  them--
                  > > very little new stuff in any of it. And of course, the stories
                  were
                  > > not his for the most part, but those taken from the dutiful
                  eckists
                  > > who sent him their "enlightening" stories!
                  >
                  > He recycled many of the initiate reports' stories in his talks as
                  > well. When I heard that it was not only Harold who read the
                  reports,
                  > I stopped sending them. I still wrote them, but only for me. It
                  was
                  > good that I stopped sending them I think.
                  > >
                  > > Well, enough for now! Thanks, Prometheus for setting up this
                  site.
                  > > It's a nice place to share our Eckankar experiences. It will
                  > > probably help others to realize that they are not alone in
                  leaving
                  > > eckankar and that the reasons for leaving are basically
                  universal
                  > > for us--we all woke up to the sham!
                  >
                  > Yes this site is cool! I have found out recently that life goes on
                  > and doesn't care at all whether we are in Eckankar or not - all we
                  > have to do, in my opinion, is to open ourselves to the greater
                  force,
                  > to Spirit, and that is that!
                  >
                  > Ingrid
                • ctecvie
                  Hello Prometheus and Mish, ... enough ... for ... in ... We were at the Spiritual Skills Seminar 2003 in Washington. It was fun for us! We thought it was
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 3, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Prometheus and Mish,

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
                    >

                    > Yes, I too want to hear about the OBE of Mish's. I wonder how the
                    > Spiritual Skills Seminar went? Not really! LOL! I've been to
                    enough
                    > meetings, trainings, and workshops to know that it is basically
                    for
                    > those who are new to intros, book discussions, etc. and is mostly
                    > just a pep talk for the experienced and active "settlers" (those
                    in
                    > support positions) and "explorers" (vahana/missionaries).

                    We were at the Spiritual Skills Seminar 2003 in Washington. It was
                    fun for us! We thought it was something new and exciting and we
                    enjoyed it a lot. Of course now we know that those techniques are
                    introduced only for recruitment and not for personal development.
                    Seen from this point of view, it doesn't seem so attractive any more.


                    Sometimes
                    > there is a slightly new focus or some new techniques shared. But
                    > actually, I always got the update from the RESA Star on new or
                    > successful Arahata/Vahana methods that were just re-enforced in
                    the
                    > workshops. The problem that most Eckists have is that they are
                    > introverts, their spiritual experiences seem far and few
                    inbetween,
                    > and what they have experienced spiritually is private and personal
                    > and cannot be easily shared. Other Eckists have no trouble making
                    up
                    > or telling their stories. Some Eckists just like to be the center
                    of
                    > attention. They love to be admired. I can see this with those who
                    > have left Eckankar as well. It's tough on some of these egomanics
                    > because they no longer have those Higher Initiations.

                    In Washington, I met an eckist who was this type - very introverted
                    and she didn't seem to have a great sense of humor. To me, it seemed
                    as if she was drying out from the inside - and I thought once again
                    how weird it was that Eckankar could attract such weird people! It
                    was not for the first time I noticed that.

                    I notice, too, that some ex-eckists haven't left Eckankar completely
                    and never will. So, once again, we will have to be very, very
                    careful to look for those old patterns inside ourselves.

                    Ingrid
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