Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] PT: Rebazar the Real LEM & SAT NAM the Inner...

Expand Messages
  • etznab@aol.com
    Interesting post. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what s free from AOL at
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 27, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
         Interesting post.


      **************************************
      AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
    • Gnothe Seauton
      Hi Etznab, Sorry that it s taken so long to reply. I ve enjoyed your posts on A.R.E. Yes, this is all very interesting. I can see why Klemp doesn t want to
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 28, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Etznab,
        Sorry that it's taken so long to reply. I've
        enjoyed your posts on A.R.E. Yes, this is
        all very interesting. I can see why Klemp
        doesn't want to reprint PT's books like
        Dialogues or Difficulties. I can, also, see
        why Klemp and company don't want ECKists
        thinking or questioning too much either.
        One topic that is, also, off limits are those
        regarding 9th Initiates. I'm not even certain
        if an ECKist can ask their RESA who the 8ths
        are or how many there are! Everything is
        kept a secret so that people will be discouraged
        from asking even the most simple questions.
        I know of RESAs that will Black List ECKists
        from getting initiations for asking too many
        questions or certain off-limit questions.

        Prometheus


        --- etznab@... wrote:

        > Interesting post.




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
        Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
        http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
      • etznab@aol.com
        Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 28, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
             Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
          I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
          of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
          (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)

             I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for clarification
          on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.

             The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
          argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
          Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
          Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.

             (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
          by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
          Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)

             Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of the
          Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
          not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
          spective it seems.

          Etznab

            



          **************************************
          See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, Etznab! I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too many questions very
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 28, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi, Etznab!

            I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
            certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
            many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
            Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
            find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
            chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
            of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
            initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
            I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
            believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
            within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
            first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
            that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
            them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
            with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with tiers
            of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
            are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
            properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful not
            to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
            population.

            It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on anything
            other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
            narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more fascinating
            is that people will believe this--without proof or validation! LOL!

            I'm really done with organized anything, especially
            religion! : )

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            etznab@... wrote:
            >
            > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
            > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
            > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
            > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
            >
            > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for clarification
            > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
            >
            > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
            > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
            > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
            > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
            >
            > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
            > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
            > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
            >
            > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of the
            > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
            > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
            > spective it seems.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > **************************************
            > See what's free at
            > http://www.aol.com
            >
          • Tyger Purr
            Are you creating a Comic Book based on imaginary historical facts . I remember certain Christian sects used to hand out similar cartoon books at the air port,
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 28, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Are you creating a Comic Book based on imaginary historical "facts". I
              remember certain Christian sects used to hand out similar cartoon
              books at the air port, full of all kinds of Bible quotes about going
              to hell if you didn't do so and so and such and such, as if their time
              line and hand drawn graphics somehow made it all true. I fear that you
              are suffering from OCD when it comes to Eckankar "history". OCD is an
              insidious way to avoid living or facing up to some kind of emotional
              trauma. Has this ever occurred to you as a possibility? I say this,
              because Eckankar has no history before the life of Paul Twitchell and
              even his history is full of lies. But of course, you already know this
              , don't you Etz. Oh well. ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
              >
              > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
              > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
              > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
              > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
              >
              > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for clarification
              > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
              >
              > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
              > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
              > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
              > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
              >
              > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
              > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
              > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
              >
              > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of the
              > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
              > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
              > spective it seems.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > **************************************
              > See what's free at
              > http://www.aol.com
              >
            • tomleafeater
              ... HEllo, Etznab. I ve not been reading t0o much of the posts lately, just bored for awhile, I guess. Anyway, I was wondering if you d care to post your
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 30, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                >
                > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
                > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
                > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
                > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
                >
                > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for clarification
                > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
                >
                > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
                > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
                > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
                > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
                >
                > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
                > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
                > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
                >
                > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of the
                > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
                > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
                > spective it seems.
                >
                > Etznab


                HEllo, Etznab. I've not been reading t0o much of the posts lately,
                just bored for awhile, I guess.

                Anyway, I was wondering if you'd care to post your timeline here, or
                is it too lengthy? Or perhaps you've already done so.

                And anyway, one quick question. How much have you found in your
                searches of the history of the masters that would pass for objective
                evidence? Historians, as I'm sure you know, consider history to be an
                objective social science. There is no history without real evidence
                to show what happened. The evidence, of course, would be in the form
                of artifacts, documents, credible first hand accounts, corroborating
                accounts by objective witnesses, photographs, etc. Such evidence
                would pass peer review by other social scientists.

                Can you tell me how much of such evidence you have gathered about the
                eck masters, such as Sudar, or Rebazar?

                Kent
              • zoey_true
                hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi s whole- heartedly. let s face it; were it not for the hierarchy in eckankar, lowers, middles, highers, the
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
                  heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in eckankar,
                  lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
                  is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at being
                  superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out with
                  a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...

                  ------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Hi, Etznab!
                  >
                  > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
                  > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
                  > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
                  > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
                  > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
                  > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
                  > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
                  > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
                  > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
                  > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
                  > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
                  > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
                  > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
                  > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
                  > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with tiers
                  > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
                  > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
                  > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful not
                  > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
                  > population.
                  >
                  > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
                  anything
                  > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
                  > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
                  fascinating
                  > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation! LOL!
                  >
                  > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
                  > religion! : )
                  >
                  > Mish
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  > etznab@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
                  > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
                  > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
                  > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
                  > >
                  > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
                  clarification
                  > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
                  > >
                  > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
                  > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
                  > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
                  > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
                  > >
                  > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
                  > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
                  > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
                  > >
                  > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of the
                  > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
                  > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
                  > > spective it seems.
                  > >
                  > > Etznab
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > **************************************
                  > > See what's free at
                  > > http://www.aol.com
                  > >
                  >
                • tomleafeater
                  ... eckankar, ... being ... with ... Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar s whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 3, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
                    <zoey_true@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
                    > heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in
                    eckankar,
                    > lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
                    > is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at
                    being
                    > superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out
                    with
                    > a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...
                    >


                    Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar's
                    whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My god, look at
                    Marman's and Rich's dripping condescension that is only barely
                    disguised over at A.R.E. These eckists are addicted to their status
                    as the lords over the rest of humanity. They can't break away from it
                    long enough to see the grip it has over them. It is so, so strange.

                    Kent


                    > ------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Hi, Etznab!
                    > >
                    > > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
                    > > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
                    > > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
                    > > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
                    > > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
                    > > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
                    > > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
                    > > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
                    > > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
                    > > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
                    > > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
                    > > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
                    > > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
                    > > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
                    > > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with
                    tiers
                    > > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
                    > > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
                    > > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful
                    not
                    > > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
                    > > population.
                    > >
                    > > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
                    > anything
                    > > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
                    > > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
                    > fascinating
                    > > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation!
                    LOL!
                    > >
                    > > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
                    > > religion! : )
                    > >
                    > > Mish
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > etznab@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
                    > > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
                    > > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
                    > > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
                    > > >
                    > > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
                    > clarification
                    > > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
                    > > >
                    > > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
                    > > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
                    > > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
                    > > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
                    > > >
                    > > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
                    > > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
                    > > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
                    > > >
                    > > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of
                    the
                    > > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
                    > > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
                    > > > spective it seems.
                    > > >
                    > > > Etznab
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > **************************************
                    > > > See what's free at
                    > > > http://www.aol.com
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Zoey Salinger
                    eckists absolutely believe themselves to be the most superior people on the planet. the chosen few. non-eckists are worthy of pity and compassion.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 4, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      eckists absolutely believe themselves to be the most superior people on the planet.  the chosen few.  non-eckists are worthy of pity and compassion.  eck-deserters are simply fools.  oh, i thought it myself.  when i was in it.  i know exactly how they think.  they put on that benign 'allowing' mask, stating that people are free to choose, while all the time clucking their tongues over the stupidity of humanity. 
                       
                      here is a very sad phenomenon:  i have seen very sincere people walk into eckankar.  some sense of searching, or longing, or genuine curiosity, brought them through the door.  whatever it was, it was real.  but quicker than a duck jumps a june bug, they have replaced that genuine search with INITIATION.  behaving, believing, saying, joining, working, conforming, etc etc in order to get that next higher number.  and the precious spiritual longing is diverted and subverted into an obscene ego corruption.  and this is only possible because the members simply do not understand what spiritual process is, or what the experience of consciousness growth feels like.  how it changes you.  if they had once experienced it, they would surely know the uselessness of some butt hole telling you that you just got a bigger number. 
                       
                      zoey...

                      tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
                      > heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in
                      eckankar,
                      > lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
                      > is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at
                      being
                      > superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out
                      with
                      > a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...
                      >


                      Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar's
                      whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My god, look at
                      Marman's and Rich's dripping condescension that is only barely
                      disguised over at A.R.E. These eckists are addicted to their status
                      as the lords over the rest of humanity. They can't break away from it
                      long enough to see the grip it has over them. It is so, so strange.

                      Kent


                      > ------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Hi, Etznab!
                      > >
                      > > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
                      > > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
                      > > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
                      > > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
                      > > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
                      > > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
                      > > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
                      > > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
                      > > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
                      > > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
                      > > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
                      > > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
                      > > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
                      > > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
                      > > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with
                      tiers
                      > > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
                      > > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
                      > > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful
                      not
                      > > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
                      > > population.
                      > >
                      > > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
                      > anything
                      > > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
                      > > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
                      > fascinating
                      > > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation!
                      LOL!
                      > >
                      > > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
                      > > religion! : )
                      > >
                      > > Mish
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > etznab@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
                      > > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
                      > > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
                      > > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
                      > > >
                      > > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
                      > clarification
                      > > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
                      > > >
                      > > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
                      > > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
                      > > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
                      > > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
                      > > >
                      > > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
                      > > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
                      > > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
                      > > >
                      > > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of
                      the
                      > > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
                      > > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
                      > > > spective it seems.
                      > > >
                      > > > Etznab
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > **************************************
                      > > > See what's free at
                      > > > http://www.aol.com.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >





                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous/

                      <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional

                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)

                      <*> To change settings via email:
                      mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-digest@yahoogroups.com
                      mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                      Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                      in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
                      to find your fit.

                    • mishmisha9
                      Hi, Zoey, Kent, Etznab and All! Kent and Zoey, excellent posts. Zoey, you especially hit the nail on the head about the corruption of ego in eckankar--that is
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 4, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi, Zoey, Kent, Etznab and All!

                        Kent and Zoey, excellent posts. Zoey, you especially hit the nail
                        on the head about the corruption of ego in eckankar--that is
                        where the path takes you!

                        Etznab, you wrote:

                        " Apparently, Paul Twitchell was dialoging with more than Rebazar
                        Tarzs -(his name first mentioned in 1964?) in the later 1950s."

                        I have to disagree with your use of the word "apparently" as this
                        seems like an attempt to give validity to Paul Twitchell's lies. PT
                        was not dialoging with Rebazar Tarzs or other fake masters unless
                        you want to stipulate that "apparently" PT had imaginary friends. : )

                        I agree that words must be looked at in the context of how they are
                        used. Liars use them to manipulate people, so it is apparent that
                        one should not value what liars say--it's a thing about trusting the
                        messenger . . . or not! One can call this discernment as well!

                        Mish

                        *****************************************************************
                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Zoey
                        Salinger <zoey_true@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > eckists absolutely believe themselves to be the most superior
                        people on the planet. the chosen few. non-eckists are worthy of
                        pity and compassion. eck-deserters are simply fools. oh, i thought
                        it myself. when i was in it. i know exactly how they think. they put
                        on that benign 'allowing' mask, stating that people are free to choose,
                        while all the time clucking their tongues over the stupidity of humanity.
                        >
                        > here is a very sad phenomenon: i have seen very sincere people
                        walk into eckankar. some sense of searching, or longing, or genuine
                        curiosity, brought them through the door. whatever it was, it was real.
                        but quicker than a duck jumps a june bug, they have replaced that
                        genuine search with INITIATION. behaving, believing, saying, joining,
                        working, conforming, etc etc in order to get that next higher number.
                        and the precious spiritual longing is diverted and subverted into an
                        obscene ego corruption. and this is only possible because the members
                        simply do not understand what spiritual process is, or what the
                        experience of consciousness growth feels like. how it changes you.
                        if they had once experienced it, they would surely know the uselessness
                        of some butt hole telling you that you just got a bigger number.
                        >
                        > zoey...
                        >
                        > tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > hey mish, i agree with your description of the hi's whole-
                        > > heartedly. let's face it; were it not for the hierarchy in
                        > eckankar,
                        > > lowers, middles, highers, the whole thing would collapse. everyone
                        > > is in it to feed the ego. if the highers didn't get to play at
                        > being
                        > > superior, they would quit. why in the world would they hang out
                        > with
                        > > a bunch of equals, doing nothing other than being loving? zoey...
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Exactly! I was just thinking this the other day, as well. Eckankar's
                        > whole gig is the ego fix people get out ot it. My god, look at
                        > Marman's and Rich's dripping condescension that is only barely
                        > disguised over at A.R.E. These eckists are addicted to their status
                        > as the lords over the rest of humanity. They can't break away from it
                        > long enough to see the grip it has over them. It is so, so strange.
                        >
                        > Kent
                        >
                        >
                        > > ------------------------------------------------------
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi, Etznab!
                        > > >
                        > > > I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions, but in eckankar
                        > > > certain questions can alarm the powers that be. Asking too
                        > > > many questions very likely would put a chela on a blacklist.
                        > > > Of course, the chela will not be aware of this other than to
                        > > > find that he doesn't receive his initiations as timely as most
                        > > > chelas. I have been shunned and also ignored within groups
                        > > > of eckists--in social settings. Why? Well, for one, I was a lower
                        > > > initiate so some of the h.i.'s fear contamination, and for another
                        > > > I did ask some questions that were not well-received. I can't
                        > > > believe that I put up with this unloving and crazy behavior
                        > > > within the eckankar org. as long as I did. I believe one of the
                        > > > first lessons in eckankar is to develop lower self-esteem--
                        > > > that is what a hierarchy is all about. Put people down and make
                        > > > them earn worthiness as judged by the orgs controllers. It starts
                        > > > with some idiot putting himself up as top dog (i.e. HK) with
                        > tiers
                        > > > of importance going down from there. Those at the very bottom
                        > > > are the insignificant, lower consciousness beings who if tamed
                        > > > properly will gradually make their way up--if they are careful
                        > not
                        > > > to upset those who feel so much more superior to the rest of the
                        > > > population.
                        > > >
                        > > > It's interesting that placing one at the top is not based on
                        > > anything
                        > > > other than an "I've had a dream" type experience that told the
                        > > > narcissistic personality that he is "God's elect!" But more
                        > > fascinating
                        > > > is that people will believe this--without proof or validation!
                        > LOL!
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm really done with organized anything, especially
                        > > > religion! : )
                        > > >
                        > > > Mish
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > etznab@ wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Blacklisted for asking too many questions? Does that mean
                        > > > > I should not ask about when Sudar Singh died? Since the Rod
                        > > > > of Eck Power was handed to Paul Twitchell by Rebazar Tarzs?
                        > > > > (see: Eckankar dictionary definition for Rebazar Tarzs)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I think it's a perfectly honest question to ask for
                        > > clarification
                        > > > > on Sudar Singh, the Eck Master before Paul Twitchell.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The wording doesn't seem specifically clear, but one could
                        > > > > argue that Rebazar just "handed" the rod over for Sudar Singh.
                        > > > > Similar, perhaps, to Sudar Singh sending Paul Twitchell to
                        > > > > Rebazar Tarzs for initiation into Eckankar.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > (Never mind the alleged fact that - in some earlier writings
                        > > > > by Paul Twitchell) - the words for Sudar Singh and Rebazar
                        > > > > Tarzs were first spelled Kirpal Singh!)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Though I still would love to make a "historical" record of
                        > the
                        > > > > Eck teachings over time in order to learn what I can from this,
                        > > > > not everbody wants to consider religion from an historical per-
                        > > > > spective it seems.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Etznab
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > **************************************
                        > > > > See what's free at
                        > > > > http://www.aol.com
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                        > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.