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ChelaChat chatter shows that eckankar is lower astral!

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  • mishmisha9
    Hey, do you think he s talking about us? LOL! Chela Chat Detractor Post (recently posted): Why is it that detractors read from books then quote only what
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 23, 2007
      Hey, do you think he's talking about us? LOL!

      Chela Chat "Detractor" Post (recently posted):

      "Why is it that detractors read from books then quote
      only what they FEEL is meant??
      ?
      Notice the word FEEL. ?
      ?
      FEEL is basically: ?
      1) Physical - physical areas of expression?
      2) Astral - emotional areas of expression?
      ?
      Because they are 'against' something they are incapable
      of going beyond these two aspects (physical and emotional).
      They have created this ceiling by their limitations of expression.
      Their own negative expression do limit and that limitation is
      to the Lower Astral only.?
      ?
      No matter what they quote nor no matter what they do they
      will only see what they want to see. When one is limited to the
      Lower Astral what they see is only a representation of the
      original and taken out of context.?
      ?
      For example:?
      The Path of the Masters: ?
      ?
      1) Those from the Lower Astral viewpoint this book is a treasure ?
      trove.?
      ?
      2) Those who view the book from a Higher Viewpoint, above the
      5th Plane, this book is nothing but antiquated garbage. Now from
      the above the 5th viewpoint one learns not to criticize even if a book
      is an antiquated piece of garbage as they have better things to do
      then waste time with such an excursion into such a book that,
      because it is out of date, the book doesn't provide anything
      worthwhile so why read it.?
      ?
      To criticise the LEMs Paul Twitchell; Dap Ren; Harold Klemp is simple ?
      for the ignorant because they haven't yet reached such an area of ?
      consciousness. ?
      ?
      In the magazine Occult (1978) there was articles on many areas.
      They got to Eckankar and their answer was basically: 'We are unable
      to comment on Eckankar because we have not experienced Eckankar'.?
      ?
      This is a very wise move on the behalf of individuals who have ?
      maintained their integrity.?
      ?
      Speaking of the same magazine, Occult, they did mentioned
      something else very relevant here:?
      ?
      'The Beatles went to Paul Twitchell and asked Paul if he would
      become their guru. Paul refused because of the Beatle's involvement
      with illegal drugs.?
      ?
      The Beatles then went to the maharishi (TM) and ask him and the ?
      maharishi said 'of course.?
      ?
      Paul could have made millions but he refused and took a Path that is ?
      clear of producing illusions.'?
      ?
      Criticism basically means the lack of development. This lack keeps ?
      one in the Lower Astral, only.?
      ?
      The dissentors of Eckankar are paupers looking for ways to prove ?
      themselves. ?
      ?
      Eckankar is not looking for those who try to prove something or for ?
      those who want to wallow in the muck of the Lower Astral.?
      ?
      Eckankar is looking for those who are willing to shed their Lower ?
      Selves and go an adventure that is very difficult indeed. This ?
      difficult adventure, if willing, will lead the chela, in Eckankar, to ?
      areas of life that demand the chela to shed the baggage so that
      each step Higher will become easier (as each piece of that baggage
      is let go of). One wrong step and if the baggage is hung onto will
      only drag the chela downwards. ?
      ?
      These dissentors have not truly experienced Eckankar and will never ?
      experience Eckankar because the baggage they carry will prevent the ?
      dissentors from seeing the actual truth. The dissentors will only see ?
      what they want to see which is information from the Lower Astral a ?
      place of grandiose illusions and delusions." (end of CC post)

      *******************************************************************

      Twitchell took word-for-word passages and all of the concepts
      mentioned in "The Path of the Masters" and put these in the
      Shariyats (The Holy Books) that the eckankar teachings are based
      upon! Therefore, if "The Path of the Masters" is "Lower Astral" then
      Eckankar is too! LOL!

      Also, when this eckist states that "The Path of the Masters" is "nothing
      but antiquated garbage," isn't he also confirming what we have been
      saying about eckankar--that eckankar is antiquated garbage? LOL!

      He whines that the detractors "see . . . only a representation of the
      original and (it is) taken out of context," --doesn't eckankar encourage
      eckists to do this all the time by suggesting that they randomly open
      a page in the Shariyat to find an answer to a problem? Isn't it
      encouraged to read the Shariyat in bits and pieces which is reading
      it out of context? Also, the eckist on HuChat who posts quotes daily
      from HK's writings is doing the same thing. She is taking the sidebar
      quotes and placing them out of context on a daily basis. Eckists who
      do not bother to read the books in their entirety are reading these
      quotes out of context.

      BTW--who is this Dap Ren guy this eckist is mentioning?

      Anyway, the illogical thoughts of this eckist continue to prove how
      out of balance many eckists are--logic fails them time after time!
      And they assume wrongly why former members have left the
      path of eckankar.

      Mish



      ?
    • ewickings
      Mish wrote: BTW--who is this Dap Ren guy this eckist is mentioning? Anyway, the illogical thoughts of this eckist continue to prove how Out of balance many
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 23, 2007
         
         Mish wrote:
        BTW--who is this Dap Ren guy this eckist is mentioning?
         
        Anyway, the illogical thoughts of this eckist continue to prove how
        Out of balance many eckists are--logic fails them time after time!
        And they assume wrongly why former members  have left the
        Path of eckankar.
         
        Mish
         
        +++++++
         
         
        Funny how these loser eckies feed off each other to hang on to their illusion about the path.  CC is a members only group, yet why do they behave as if they are speaking to the detractors?  ;-)
         
          
        Dap Ren was suppose to be Darwin Gross spiritual name.  Wonder why this eckie used the term for DG when we all know he is a fallen Master / black magician and were instructed NOT to mention his name let alone his spiritual name!  LOL  
         
        Elizabeth 
      • prometheus_973
        Hi All, It s apparant that this Chela-Chat ECKist hasn t read The Path of the Masters. I think that I ll give some quotes to show that Twitchell used these
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 23, 2007
          Hi All,
          It's apparant that this Chela-Chat ECKist hasn't read
          "The Path of the Masters." I think that I'll give some
          quotes to show that Twitchell used these Radhasoami
          teachings as the basis for the Lower Astral Plane
          religion that he named ECKANKAR. ECKists need to
          get out their LEXICONS and follow along.

          The Path of the Masters by Julian P. Johnson, 1939:

          "The following questions and topics are set forth and
          explained in this book in modern, simple, and clear
          language. What is religion?... What is God? What are
          his names? The great spiritual hierarchies. The superior
          planes and high regions. The spiritual guides of past
          and present times. The role of the Masters. True and
          false 'Gurus' ; how to recognize them. The way to realize
          Union with the Supreme Being. The various stages to be
          passed through by those willing to tread the pathway of
          the Master. How to become a disciple?... The five perver-
          sions or passions and their antidotes. The diverse Karmas.
          ... the Audible Life Stream; in short all that concerns the
          'Science of the Masters.'" [pg. xxii]

          "Formerly it was considered a violation to divulge the secret
          of the inner path, accordingly to the Yogis. This secret was
          only revealed after having sustained the most difficult and
          rigid tests and counter-tests. This is quite natural where the
          Patanjali system is concerned because of the dangers of the
          tests submitted to by the chelas. In this exposition of Santon-
          ki-Shiksha, contrarily to so many Yogas, dangers at every step
          in the course of spiritual practises." [xxiii]

          "Truth always expresses itself with the greatest simplicity."
          [pg. xxv]

          NOTE: This same statement (above) was used by HK in the
          12/2005 H.I. Letter.

          " 'To practice Yoga out of curiosity, in search of new sensations
          or in order to gain psychic power is a mistake which is punished
          with futility, neurosis or even worse. None should seek initiation
          into the mysteries from unworthy motives, for disaster would
          surely result.' (Brunton)" [pg. xxv]

          "The method exposed in these pages does not in any way require
          the seeker to leave everything and start out as a pilgrim with
          sandals and pack in order to submit to endless tortures and tests!
          No, the part of the true adept consists in remaining in his usual
          surroundings and THERE to earn his living in a situation permitting
          him to live a simple, honest and decent life." [pg. xxvi]

          "Spirituality cannot be taught but caught." [pg. xxix]

          "Sat means 'true or unchangeable' and Sang means 'union.'
          [pg. xxix]

          "This trinity of the Santon-ki-Shiksha is technically called:
          SAT GURU--living Master.
          SAT SANG--His company, and
          SAT NAM--the True Name (Shabd or Heavenly Bani)."
          [pg. xxix]

          BTW- This can, also, be found on page 22 of the Shariyat-
          ki-Sugmad and is the "Trinity of ECKANKAR" found on page
          212 of the ECKANKAR LEXICON.

          This proves that ECKANKAR too, is LOWER ASTRAL!

          Also, on pages 188-189 of the LEXICON is this definition:
          "Shariat. A stage of spiritual unfoldment where rules are
          needed for the external mode of religious life."

          "It has already been said that a good moral life is the very
          prerequisite to becoming a disciple of the Sat Guru. This
          may be called the Yama of this Path or the Dharma. In the
          language of Muslim Saints it is called SHARIAT, the law of
          life, that which is done or ought to be done. All this is taken
          for granted, even before one starts on the Path of the Masters."
          [pg. 534]

          "But the most important thing about all yogi systems is the
          complete absence from them of all knowledge of the Shabd
          and reliance upon it for entering the higher regions. Without
          it, no one can advance very far on the inner path... We have
          given only a few hints of it, so that the general reader may
          not be wholly be in the dark concerning it. Further details
          cannot be given to the general public, but will be given by
          the Master to all whom he initiates... some of them get the
          Initiation and then lapse into idle indifference. Either that,
          or they look to the Guru to do it all for them. In this way
          many spend the whole of their lives making practically no
          headway on the Path." [pgs. 535-536]

          "It will be apparent to the careful student that this system of
          SPIRITUAL EXERCISES, taught and practiced by all the Masters
          carries the student actually through the 'gates of death'...
          He is also able to return to this plane, at will, retaining perfect
          memory of all that he has seen and heard. This is one of the
          minor achievements of the student... the Masters initiate
          students into the Path and give them the method by means
          of which they can go and come at will between this and
          higher worlds... the Master... As pure spirit, he knows all
          things by direct perception..." [pgs. 537-538]

          "In this respect the services to mankind of such men as
          Bacon, Spinoza, Voltaire, Emerson, Berkeley, Kant, Hegel,
          Spencer, Schopenhauer, ..." [pg. 9] Also, in order, and on
          page 47, of "The Flute of God."

          "But unlike all the rest, The Great Masters practise love."
          [pg. 182]

          "1. First of all, the necessity of a living Guru, a genuine
          Saint who has been appointed by the Supreme Sat Purush
          to act as Guru. By living we mean one who is still in a physical
          body. It is a fixed law of Nature that only a humanly embodied
          soul can act as Guru for those still in the physical body...

          2. The second fundamental of this system of the Masters,
          the pure Santon-ki-Shiksha, is the vital fact of the Audible
          Life Stream...

          3. The third general truth emphasized by the Saints is
          complete liberation and spiritual triumph while still living
          in the physical body...

          4. Unless a man is able to give the Initiation and lead his
          disciple upon the inner planes, he is not a Master and should
          not be accepted as such..." [pgs. 172-174]

          "There are two vital points at which all religions fail. One is
          the lack of a living Master... A second lack suffered by all
          religions is their loss of all conscious contact with the Audible
          Life Stream. [pgs.175-176]


          "Every world religion is full of differing sects. All these have
          their psychological interpretation. They are expressions of
          some phase of religious experience. How many of them may
          be due to the mental aberrations of their founders we are not
          in a position to say. But in each and every case, they have arisen
          out of some sort of inner experiences, even though it is altogether
          possible that some of these inner experiences may be attributed
          to paranoia. But even then, they may have certain psychological
          and religious value. A careful analysis should be made in all cases
          and the phenomena should be studied impartially as one would
          a new disease." [pg. 196]

          The 'mental aberrations' and 'paranoia' part sounds like Twitchell
          just created a 'new disease' that Klemp suffers from as well.

          Anyway, I could go on and on and show where the Tisra Til is
          mentioned and that it's used for the beginner on the Path to meet
          the Master on the Astral Plane before traveling into the higher
          planes, etc. Yet, ECKANKAR continues to use this lower Astral
          technique with all Initiations! Case closed!

          Prometheus







          Mish wrote:

          [snip]
          Chela Chat "Detractor" Post (recently posted):

          "The Path of the Masters:
          1) Those from the Lower Astral viewpoint this book is a treasure
          trove.

          2) Those who view the book from a Higher Viewpoint, above the
          5th Plane, this book is nothing but antiquated garbage. Now from
          the above the 5th viewpoint one learns not to criticize even if a book
          is an antiquated piece of garbage as they have better things to do
          then waste time with such an excursion into such a book that,
          because it is out of date, the book doesn't provide anything
          worthwhile so why read it.

          To criticise the LEMs Paul Twitchell; Dap Ren; Harold Klemp is simple
          for the ignorant because they haven't yet reached such an area of
          consciousness.

          [snip]

          These dissentors have not truly experienced Eckankar and will never ?
          experience Eckankar because the baggage they carry will prevent the ?
          dissentors from seeing the actual truth. The dissentors will only see ?
          what they want to see which is information from the Lower Astral a ?
          place of grandiose illusions and delusions." (end of CC post)

          *******************************************************************
          MISH:
          Twitchell took word-for-word passages and all of the concepts
          mentioned in "The Path of the Masters" and put these in the
          Shariyats (The Holy Books) that the eckankar teachings are based
          upon! Therefore, if "The Path of the Masters" is "Lower Astral" then
          Eckankar is too! LOL!

          Also, when this eckist states that "The Path of the Masters" is "nothing
          but antiquated garbage," isn't he also confirming what we have been
          saying about eckankar--that eckankar is antiquated garbage? LOL!

          He whines that the detractors "see . . . only a representation of the
          original and (it is) taken out of context," --doesn't eckankar encourage
          eckists to do this all the time by suggesting that they randomly open
          a page in the Shariyat to find an answer to a problem? Isn't it
          encouraged to read the Shariyat in bits and pieces which is reading
          it out of context? Also, the eckist on HuChat who posts quotes daily
          from HK's writings is doing the same thing. She is taking the sidebar
          quotes and placing them out of context on a daily basis. Eckists who
          do not bother to read the books in their entirety are reading these
          quotes out of context.

          BTW--who is this Dap Ren guy this eckist is mentioning?

          Anyway, the illogical thoughts of this eckist continue to prove how
          out of balance many eckists are--logic fails them time after time!
          And they assume wrongly why former members have left the
          path of eckankar.

          Mish
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I thought that I would give more quotes from The Path of the Masters to show where Twitchell got 90% of his material (much of which PT distorted and
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 26, 2007
            Hello All,
            I thought that I would give more quotes from The
            Path of the Masters to show where Twitchell got
            90% of his material (much of which PT distorted
            and recreated) for his newly created ECKANKAR
            sect.

            Go to the LINKS page of this site to see more info.

            MORE PROOF FROM--
            The Path of the Masters by Julian P. Johnson, 1939:

            "As to whether Zarathustra himself was a real Master
            or Saint the best way to answer that is to invite you
            to the living Master, who himself will give you the
            method by which you may know all about it yourself,
            without taking even the word of the Master. The same
            may be said regarding Jesus or any of the great religious
            characters in history. The Master can give you the key
            by means of whichyou may win the right to a personal
            interview with any of those men. You will then know
            of a certainty their standing, not only at the time of
            their life on earth but of their present status. You may
            meet them personally and converse with them."
            [pg. 45]

            [ME]: Now isn't this strange that this is the promise
            from the living Master to the student of Radhasoami
            back in 1939, and before that actually, while Klemp
            (the Mahanta) can't seem to come up with information
            on Sudar Singh or that HK still mentions UNKNOWN
            ECK MASTERS. Why are there ANY unknowns, especially
            ECK Masters, for one possessing the Greatest Mahanta
            CONsciousness anywhere - ever?! It doesn't make sense
            and that's just one more reason why it's not true and why
            Klemp and Twitchell's versions of the Radhasoami and
            Ruhani Satsang Sects aren't true either! Not that these
            two religious sects have the truth either! Soul is Its own
            Living (ECK) Master!

            "The Vedas, the Shastras, the Puranas, and the Gita, the
            Mahabharata, and the Ramayana in India, the Zend Avesta
            in Persia, the Bible in Syria, the Quran in Arabia, and a
            little later the Granth Sahib of the Sikhs in India, all these
            are books worshipped and obeyed. They are declared,
            EX-CATHEDRA, to be the inspired word of God. Ergo, it
            is the duty of men to accept and believe in them. And all
            of them are fetters to intelligence, no matter good they may
            be in and of themselves. They may become fetters because
            their followers insist that all revelation is closed. All spiritual
            instructions are finished. Instead of listening to a living
            Master in each age, their several books are considered the
            infallible word. Crystallization of thought always goes before
            moral stagnation. Without a living Master spirituality wanes,
            as a lamp goes out when the oil is exhausted. As soon as a
            religion becomes fixed, static, crystallized, upon that foundation
            a corrupt priesthood is established, and at once the whole
            thing begins to decline into an inspired formalism. This is
            history. It is no theory.

            Only when the living Master comes with a vitalized and
            dynamic science, only then can he 'speak as one having
            authority.' After all, what is a holy book at best? It is a
            statement of the inner experiences of a living Master. Then
            why not listen to the living Master now? Why not see him
            and hear him yourself instead of reading about some Masters
            who lived centuries or thousands of years ago?" [pg.73]

            [ME]: And yet Klemp quotes from the King James Bible,
            and from Twitchell's Shariyats, Stranger by the River, and
            mentions The Tiger's Fang along with giving other quotes
            and other stories from the distant past! It seems like Klemp
            is more the 'complier' than Twitchell. When one looks at
            Klemps books, how much of that material is from other
            sources? Has Klemp ever written anything comparable to
            those books still available by Twitchell? NO! Absolutely NOT!

            "We cannot reproduce the writings of the Saints here. They
            would not mean so much to the Western reader as they do
            to the Indian student. But we wish to mention one in particular
            who speaks so delightfully of the Audible Life Wave,
            corroborating the words of Jesus and of all other Saints. This
            is SHAMS-I-TABRIZ, a Persian Saint of the later middle ages.
            It is difficult to say which of the two, KABIR SAHIB or Shams-
            i-Tabriz speaks more lovingly of the Life Stream. Their songs
            are more inspiring. Tagore has translated many of the songs
            of Kabir; but himself having no knowledge of the LIFE STREAM,
            he does not seem to have grasped the real significance of
            Kabir's teachings. The following was translated by Judge
            Munshi Ram and Prof. Jagat Singh*... It is full of beauty and
            rapturous appreciation of the heavenly BANI.

            To me came the Sound incomparable, which comes
            Neither from within, nor without.
            Neither does it come from left, nor from the right.
            Nor from the back, nor from the front.
            You will ask then, whence does it come?
            It will come from the direction you are seeking to go.
            You will ask then, which way shall I face?--
            The side from which the bride-groom cometh.
            That direction whence ripeness comes to fruit;
            That direction from which stones become diamonds.
            Be silent and listen to the five sounds from Heaven,
            The Heaven which is beyond all senses and directions.
            Every momeny in life this wonderous Sound
            Reaches down from the courts of Heaven
            Fortunate above all the children of men
            Is he who hears its enchanting melodies." [pgs. 500-501]

            *["who became the appointed Successor to the Great Master,"
            Huzur Maharaj Baba Sawan Singh Ji, 1858-1948, (Baba Sawan
            was the Master of both Sant Kirpal Singh Ji, living Master of
            Ruhani Satsang, and Sardar Bahadur (Prof.) Jagat Singh Ji
            Maharaj's of Radhasoami. Kirpal took his followers and started
            his own sect, like Twitchell, when he was not appointed, due to
            politics, etc. as a Successor. Kirpal Singh was Paul Twitchell's
            real Master from 1955-1965]

            [ME]: Isn't it too bad that Klemp is incapable of writing poetry.
            Why cannot he express himself of SUGMAD's Love with a book
            of poetry? Once again, the reason so many ECKists look to RUMI
            and others is because Klemp falls short of the mark every time!
            Many ECKists hope that Klemp is/was just the substitute Mahanta
            until the real thing comes along! However, they just need to look
            into the mirror in order to see the real Living (ECK) Master/Mahanta!

            Prometheus














            Prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hi All,
            > It's apparant that this Chela-Chat ECKist hasn't read
            > "The Path of the Masters." I think that I'll give some
            > quotes to show that Twitchell used these Radhasoami
            > teachings as the basis for the Lower Astral Plane
            > religion that he named ECKANKAR. ECKists need to
            > get out their LEXICONS and follow along.
            >
            > The Path of the Masters by Julian P. Johnson, 1939:
            >
            > "The following questions and topics are set forth and
            > explained in this book in modern, simple, and clear
            > language. What is religion?... What is God? What are
            > his names? The great spiritual hierarchies. The superior
            > planes and high regions. The spiritual guides of past
            > and present times. The role of the Masters. True and
            > false 'Gurus' ; how to recognize them. The way to realize
            > Union with the Supreme Being. The various stages to be
            > passed through by those willing to tread the pathway of
            > the Master. How to become a disciple?... The five perver-
            > sions or passions and their antidotes. The diverse Karmas.
            > ... the Audible Life Stream; in short all that concerns the
            > 'Science of the Masters.'" [pg. xxii]
            >
            > "Formerly it was considered a violation to divulge the secret
            > of the inner path, accordingly to the Yogis. This secret was
            > only revealed after having sustained the most difficult and
            > rigid tests and counter-tests. This is quite natural where the
            > Patanjali system is concerned because of the dangers of the
            > tests submitted to by the chelas. In this exposition of Santon-
            > ki-Shiksha, contrarily to so many Yogas, dangers at every step
            > in the course of spiritual practises." [xxiii]
            >
            > "Truth always expresses itself with the greatest simplicity."
            > [pg. xxv]
            >
            > NOTE: This same statement (above) was used by HK in the
            > 12/2005 H.I. Letter.
            >
            > " 'To practice Yoga out of curiosity, in search of new sensations
            > or in order to gain psychic power is a mistake which is punished
            > with futility, neurosis or even worse. None should seek initiation
            > into the mysteries from unworthy motives, for disaster would
            > surely result.' (Brunton)" [pg. xxv]
            >
            > "The method exposed in these pages does not in any way require
            > the seeker to leave everything and start out as a pilgrim with
            > sandals and pack in order to submit to endless tortures and tests!
            > No, the part of the true adept consists in remaining in his usual
            > surroundings and THERE to earn his living in a situation permitting
            > him to live a simple, honest and decent life." [pg. xxvi]
            >
            > "Spirituality cannot be taught but caught." [pg. xxix]
            >
            > "Sat means 'true or unchangeable' and Sang means 'union.'
            > [pg. xxix]
            >
            > "This trinity of the Santon-ki-Shiksha is technically called:
            > SAT GURU--living Master.
            > SAT SANG--His company, and
            > SAT NAM--the True Name (Shabd or Heavenly Bani)."
            > [pg. xxix]
            >
            > BTW- This can, also, be found on page 22 of the Shariyat-
            > ki-Sugmad and is the "Trinity of ECKANKAR" found on page
            > 212 of the ECKANKAR LEXICON.
            >
            > This proves that ECKANKAR too, is LOWER ASTRAL!
            >
            > Also, on pages 188-189 of the LEXICON is this definition:
            > "Shariat. A stage of spiritual unfoldment where rules are
            > needed for the external mode of religious life."
            >
            > "It has already been said that a good moral life is the very
            > prerequisite to becoming a disciple of the Sat Guru. This
            > may be called the Yama of this Path or the Dharma. In the
            > language of Muslim Saints it is called SHARIAT, the law of
            > life, that which is done or ought to be done. All this is taken
            > for granted, even before one starts on the Path of the Masters."
            > [pg. 534]
            >
            > "But the most important thing about all yogi systems is the
            > complete absence from them of all knowledge of the Shabd
            > and reliance upon it for entering the higher regions. Without
            > it, no one can advance very far on the inner path... We have
            > given only a few hints of it, so that the general reader may
            > not be wholly be in the dark concerning it. Further details
            > cannot be given to the general public, but will be given by
            > the Master to all whom he initiates... some of them get the
            > Initiation and then lapse into idle indifference. Either that,
            > or they look to the Guru to do it all for them. In this way
            > many spend the whole of their lives making practically no
            > headway on the Path." [pgs. 535-536]
            >
            > "It will be apparent to the careful student that this system of
            > SPIRITUAL EXERCISES, taught and practiced by all the Masters
            > carries the student actually through the 'gates of death'...
            > He is also able to return to this plane, at will, retaining perfect
            > memory of all that he has seen and heard. This is one of the
            > minor achievements of the student... the Masters initiate
            > students into the Path and give them the method by means
            > of which they can go and come at will between this and
            > higher worlds... the Master... As pure spirit, he knows all
            > things by direct perception..." [pgs. 537-538]
            >
            > "In this respect the services to mankind of such men as
            > Bacon, Spinoza, Voltaire, Emerson, Berkeley, Kant, Hegel,
            > Spencer, Schopenhauer, ..." [pg. 9] Also, in order, and on
            > page 47, of "The Flute of God."
            >
            > "But unlike all the rest, The Great Masters practise love."
            > [pg. 182]
            >
            > "1. First of all, the necessity of a living Guru, a genuine
            > Saint who has been appointed by the Supreme Sat Purush
            > to act as Guru. By living we mean one who is still in a physical
            > body. It is a fixed law of Nature that only a humanly embodied
            > soul can act as Guru for those still in the physical body...
            >
            > 2. The second fundamental of this system of the Masters,
            > the pure Santon-ki-Shiksha, is the vital fact of the Audible
            > Life Stream...
            >
            > 3. The third general truth emphasized by the Saints is
            > complete liberation and spiritual triumph while still living
            > in the physical body...
            >
            > 4. Unless a man is able to give the Initiation and lead his
            > disciple upon the inner planes, he is not a Master and should
            > not be accepted as such..." [pgs. 172-174]
            >
            > "There are two vital points at which all religions fail. One is
            > the lack of a living Master... A second lack suffered by all
            > religions is their loss of all conscious contact with the Audible
            > Life Stream. [pgs.175-176]
            >
            >
            > "Every world religion is full of differing sects. All these have
            > their psychological interpretation. They are expressions of
            > some phase of religious experience. How many of them may
            > be due to the mental aberrations of their founders we are not
            > in a position to say. But in each and every case, they have arisen
            > out of some sort of inner experiences, even though it is altogether
            > possible that some of these inner experiences may be attributed
            > to paranoia. But even then, they may have certain psychological
            > and religious value. A careful analysis should be made in all cases
            > and the phenomena should be studied impartially as one would
            > a new disease." [pg. 196]
            >
            > The 'mental aberrations' and 'paranoia' part sounds like Twitchell
            > just created a 'new disease' that Klemp suffers from as well.
            >
            > Anyway, I could go on and on and show where the Tisra Til is
            > mentioned and that it's used for the beginner on the Path to meet
            > the Master on the Astral Plane before traveling into the higher
            > planes, etc. Yet, ECKANKAR continues to use this lower Astral
            > technique with all Initiations! Case closed!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Mish wrote:
            >
            > [snip]
            > Chela Chat "Detractor" Post (recently posted):
            >
            > "The Path of the Masters:
            > 1) Those from the Lower Astral viewpoint this book is a treasure
            > trove.
            >
            > 2) Those who view the book from a Higher Viewpoint, above the
            > 5th Plane, this book is nothing but antiquated garbage. Now from
            > the above the 5th viewpoint one learns not to criticize even if a book
            > is an antiquated piece of garbage as they have better things to do
            > then waste time with such an excursion into such a book that,
            > because it is out of date, the book doesn't provide anything
            > worthwhile so why read it.
            >
            > To criticise the LEMs Paul Twitchell; Dap Ren; Harold Klemp is simple
            > for the ignorant because they haven't yet reached such an area of
            > consciousness.
            >
            > [snip]
            >
            > These dissentors have not truly experienced Eckankar and will never ?
            > experience Eckankar because the baggage they carry will prevent the ?
            > dissentors from seeing the actual truth. The dissentors will only see ?
            > what they want to see which is information from the Lower Astral a ?
            > place of grandiose illusions and delusions." (end of CC post)
            >
            > *******************************************************************
            > MISH:
            > Twitchell took word-for-word passages and all of the concepts
            > mentioned in "The Path of the Masters" and put these in the
            > Shariyats (The Holy Books) that the eckankar teachings are based
            > upon! Therefore, if "The Path of the Masters" is "Lower Astral" then
            > Eckankar is too! LOL!
            >
            > Also, when this eckist states that "The Path of the Masters" is "nothing
            > but antiquated garbage," isn't he also confirming what we have been
            > saying about eckankar--that eckankar is antiquated garbage? LOL!
            >
            > He whines that the detractors "see . . . only a representation of the
            > original and (it is) taken out of context," --doesn't eckankar encourage
            > eckists to do this all the time by suggesting that they randomly open
            > a page in the Shariyat to find an answer to a problem? Isn't it
            > encouraged to read the Shariyat in bits and pieces which is reading
            > it out of context? Also, the eckist on HuChat who posts quotes daily
            > from HK's writings is doing the same thing. She is taking the sidebar
            > quotes and placing them out of context on a daily basis. Eckists who
            > do not bother to read the books in their entirety are reading these
            > quotes out of context.
            >
            > BTW--who is this Dap Ren guy this eckist is mentioning?
            >
            > Anyway, the illogical thoughts of this eckist continue to prove how
            > out of balance many eckists are--logic fails them time after time!
            > And they assume wrongly why former members have left the
            > path of eckankar.
            >
            > Mish
            >
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