Re: HCS discussion
- Betty's response on HCS is typically unoriginal, clueless and
elitist. Hi Ingrid. Yes, I would say that Betty/Mario have a problem
with ego, cognitive thinking, and paranoia. These conspiracy
theorists also believe: in the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll at the
JFK assassination; the Apollo Moon Landings did Not really take
place and were filmed on a movie set; that the planes involved in
the 9/11 disaster had no windows, were not marked airliners, were
flown by remote control by the U.S. government, and that the
passengers were Not on the planes and are actually government
employees who have been relocated! Wow! Tell that last one to their
family members! It seems that Betty's/Mario's passion has replaced
their common sense! Perhaps they miss being on pedestals when they
were High Initiates (H.I.s) in Eckankar. Maybe they (ego) need to be
seen as educators and heroes. Conspiracy theorists in general put
together disparate facts tinged with paranoia.
I found "comrade" Mario's post to be naturally in-your-face and
arrogant, and I think he will come back again with more innuendos
and back-handed insults... it's his nature.
Betty's Kipling post ("IF") was very amusing. "If" only Betty
didn't "deal in lies" or "if" she could really "think" for herself,
but maybe her real goal "is the Earth and everything that's in it."
Or, is her goal to someday "be a man, my son." It's too bad that
Betty/Mario can't use her own words instead of others. However, I
will have to give Betty credit (this time) for stating the source of
her words. This is a rarity! Usually she plagarizes, paraphrases,
mimics, copies, and parrots from her Icke/TRANCE/Cassiopaea sources.
One should keep this in mind when reading anything she writes that
seems intellectual and "factual." Yes, it's all a facade! This is
Even one or two of the B&M supporters aren't (most likely) who they
seem to be either. I really think one is an Eckist (HK?) or someone
else who really hates Ford! If I wanted to take Ford down I would
just stroke the egos of Betty and Mario, support their conspiracy
dribble, and voila'! This is one conspiracy that is much more
believable. Then again, maybe the real conspiracies just aren't as
interesting as the fictional ones. Perhaps B&M find this sci-
fi/psychic/conspiracy thing much more intriguing than
the "spiritual" stuff? There are certainly more people, it seems,
who have had experiences with this other stuff than with true
spiritual experiences. Maybe this is why there is this off-beat
interest. If one has nothing else to compare to and No grounding of
common sense or are mentally/emotionally imbalanced then I can see
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
>Well, Betty - you didn't say anything really new in your last, onceagain long-winded post. What strikes me again, as in all of your
posts, is that you seem to think you need to "educate" and "teach"
us "the Truth". Please remember that this is only YOUR truth and not
THE TRUTH. There are a lot of truths out there - and all of them are
personal and individual truths, backed up by our own and personal
experiences, nothing more and nothing less. Even if you are not
aware of it, you do talk down to the "uneducated" like I am one -
and I do feel offended. Please don't try to justify yourself - I
have heard it all, and it's of no use as this will be my only
statement on this topic.
>I'm really surprised to read that you are hardly more interested inconspiracies than JCP is! What a bold statement! All I can perceive
is that you have hardly anything else to tell in your posts apart
from the endless talk about conspiracies. Ah yes, there is something
else - that Eckankar is still the highest path on earth. It seems to
me that, to this day, you have not really left Eckankar. Obviously I
do not agree with you at all - but this is my truth, just as the
statement you make is your truth again. Remember that Eckankar has
stolen a lot of wisdom, if not all of it, from other paths and from
life itself - no wonder it's "close to the truth" as you say because
that way, this is really very easy to do!
>I'm always wondering from where comes your absolute certitude abouthow life works. I do think that you make valid statements which
apply to many of us, but again - it's your truth, it's how you
perceive life. This is very good. But please remember that there are
a lot of fairly intelligent people out here who have all something
to share - and I mean, to SHARE and not talk down to somebody - on
that. Unfortunately, there was not much sharing going on during the
last few weeks or months because Mario and you practically did all
the "sharing" - interspersed by some highlight posts from Ed Kusi as
mentioned above. I can say for me that I was discouraged from that
by the way this BB was running because Mario and you clearly are
dominating it. Fortunately, people braver than me spoke up
eventually - and that gives me hope that the BB will eventually
recover and provide the excellent spiritual and personal insights it
had when I first came here.
- Kipling's "If" poem is rather nice, but when figuring out why it is
posted on HCS, one has to wonder if the poster is putting herself
again up on a pedestal. Unfortunately, this seems to be an ongoing
problem, and the person doesn't get it! Personally, I don't care
what others believe--everyone is entitled to their beliefs/opinions,
but when someone continously pushes it/promotes it, and seems to
look down on those who differ, well I have a problem with that. From
the beginning, I detected the arrogance that comes with the postings
of these individuals. At first, I thought something was lost in
translation, but since it continues, well it seems to be a part of
the personality so to speak! Maybe, it is a factor in not being able
to let go of Eckankar and that bogus HI status? As for parroting and
paraphrasing others' words, well, isn't that a part of being
brainwashed? Original thinking is lost.
I believe that the conspiracy theories/aliens/Icke speak etc. will
continue to be posted on HCS. Some people are encouraging it, and
perhaps, as Prometheus suggests, that might be a conspiracy of sorts
against HCS! : ) The bottom line, though, is that Ford allows it,
approves of it, and that is the way his sites will be. It is his
responsibility and decision on how he wants the complexion of his
sites to look--it's his vision.
Anyway, I do not foresee any changes in the postings on HCS. Both
Betty and Mario have basically said they cannot be stopped! : )
Well, good for them! (blink! blink!) (In case, you didn't catch the
significance of the "blink"--that's a Harold techique--LOL!)
- Hi, Truthdecider!
Just some thoughts on your post here:
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "truthdecider"
> Hey Prometheus,be
> For me, there is a balance and a co-existence of these kinds
> of "conspiracy" experiences, and real "spiritual" experiences.
> Having had both types of experiences, I think that they both can
> valid and have a place in understanding the world that we live in.the
> I understand that it is very easy for people to be very unbalanced
> when it comes to the "conspiracy-like" topics, and to go off of
> deep end into the seemingly ridiculous very easily. However, thisI don't think that Prometheus meant to invalidate all of the
> tendency in the "conspiracy following" people does not necessarily
> invalidate all of the theories that they are exploring.
theories, but perhaps he will clarify this himself. You are correct
on this, however--and I will add that the 2nd gunman theory in the
JFK assassination is still a probable for me! : )
Also, I have read a few books about 9/11/2001, and there is much to
explore there as well. However, I don't believe in the planes being
flown by the government and the passengers being government
employees, etc. I also do not believe in the flash video that has
been posted on various websites about the crash into the Pentagon.
The flash video is irritating and seems to be an ultimate
brainwashing tool--keep watching it and you will surely believe the
theories, you'll be brainwashed into believing it. I'd rather see a
slower video and let my brain figure it out. So I only watched it a
couple of times, and realized it was dangerous to the mind
> For example, as a native New Yorker, with friends in the NYPD, and
> the FDNY, I can tell you that it is not just the New Age
> folks that are very suspicious about what really happened on 9/11.the
> There is a large coalition of Fire Fighters, Policemen (some of
> Police and Firemen were actually on the scene on 9/11, or lostthis
> friends and family that day), Building Engineers, Veteran Combat
> Pilots, etc. that are suing the entire Bush administration to try
> and force them to reopen the 9/11 investigation. They are doing
> because of how many holes and inconsistencies these professionalsWe
> feel exist in the official explanation of what happened that day.
> can't just dismiss all of these educated professionals asimbalanced
> just because what they are saying doesn't fit with the massmedia's
> version of the story. That would be dangerously short sighted ofus
> if we did.I think that the Bush administration is exceedingly corrupt, whether
he is aware himself to its depth or he is just being used by the
manipulators. I recently read, "102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the
Fight to Survive Inside The Twin Towers" by Jim Dwyer and Kevin
Flynn. It is an interesting read which also discusses the buildings'
construction, the building codes, the firemen and policemen who
worked on the scene and so forth. There's a lot of good information,
and it shows how government agencies do not always work well
together and that old codes and regulations were not up to date,
> My own history of childhood abuse and its related self-hate issues
> that I still struggle with may make me more susceptible to cult-
> speak in general, which, as I mentioned in my last post, I am
> painfully aware of. But this doesn't put me in the category of
> mentally/emotionally imbalanced. My hard won awareness throughfirst
> hand experience of the fact that there are many things that ourI don't think you are in that "category of being
> government is lying to us about does not put me in this category
mentally/emotionally imbalanced" either--and I doubt that anyone
reading your posts, including Prometheus, would think so. : ) As
for the government lying, well, yes, it is a daily occurance and
anyone who believes all the spins that are put out there would
indeed be very foolish. I also think believing in the opinions of
the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and others is also just as
confusing and not very factual. However, I do enjoy John Stewart on
the Daily Show--now, he is fun! : )
> All I'm saying is that I think we need to be careful not to rush
> judgment about all of this too quickly, or over-generalize it, andPerhaps, the intent was not to lump it all in one pot--sometimes for
> lump it all together in one pot, and call all of it completely
dramatics one might make what seems a sweeping statement. I have
done it myself--maybe even in this post. : )
- Hello Truthdecider,
I just had some comments on what you wrote.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "truthdecider"
>For me, there is a balance and a co-existence of these kindsof "conspiracy" experiences, and real "spiritual" experiences.
Having had both types of experiences, I think that they both can be
valid and have a place in understanding the world that we live in.
I'm not quite sure what "conspiracy" experiences you are talking
about unless it is a UFO one that some "government" agency is
>I understand that it is very easy for people to be very unbalancedwhen it comes to the "conspiracy-like" topics, and to go off of the
deep end into the seemingly ridiculous very easily. However, this
tendency in the "conspiracy following" people does not necessarily
invalidate all of the theories that they are exploring.
No it doesn't invalidate "all" of the theories, but let's use some
common sense too. However, there are many conspiracies taking place
within families, local governments, state governments, small
businesses, large corporations and departments and agencies within
world governments. People just naturally manipulate information and
make plans that benefit one group over another (people conspire!).
It's what the ego and group consciousness does.
> For example, as a native New Yorker, with friends in the NYPD, andthe FDNY, I can tell you that it is not just the New Age conspiracy
folks that are very suspicious about what really happened on 9/11.
There is a large coalition of Fire Fighters, Policemen (some of the
Police and Firemen were actually on the scene on 9/11, or lost
friends and family that day), Building Engineers, Veteran Combat
Pilots, etc. that are suing the entire Bush administration to try
and force them to reopen the 9/11 investigation. They are doing this
because of how many holes and inconsistencies these professionals
feel exist in the official explanation of what happened that day. We
can't just dismiss all of these educated professionals as imbalanced
just because what they are saying doesn't fit with the mass media's
version of the story. That would be dangerously short sighted of us
if we did.
It's true that the Bush administration and most likely the New York
state, city and county government leaders and department heads don't
want certain information to be known. But, that is because it would
show their own incompetence, criminal neglect and civil liability in
regard to holes in security, budget cuts that compromised safety,
not following up leads, poor communications, not having a plan, not
enforcing building codes, etc., etc., etc. And, nothing much has
been done to correct future problems. There was nothing more than
that. It's no wonder that people are mad when the politicians are
covering their tracks. Unfortunately, this also gives the conspiracy
nuts "evidence" (wild speculation) to blow it all out of proportion
and then we have our own government flying the planes into the
buildings! The reason the planes looked "different" to many
observers is because the terrorists had the passengers put the
shades down on the windows. So, just who are these "educated"
professionals you mention? Are these retired pilots watching from
the ground? Bush was a pilot too and I wouldn't believe anything he
told me about his observations or planes in general! Are these
people more creditable and why? Is their eyesight okay, were they on
medication, did they have an unobstructed view? Where were they and
how far away, etc. when the events transpired. What kind of
specific complains and observations do they have? Have they written
a book? Were events distorted due to these people being in shock?
Have emotional opinions formed as blanks in memory and perception
are now filled in?
>My own history of childhood abuse and its related self-hate issuesthat I still struggle with may make me more susceptible to cult-
speak in general, which, as I mentioned in my last post, I am
painfully aware of. But this doesn't put me in the category of being
mentally/emotionally imbalanced. My hard won awareness through first
hand experience of the fact that there are many things that our
government is lying to us about does not put me in this category
I'm sorry... I never meant to imply that you have a mental or
emotional imbalance. However, many of these hard core conspiracy
>All I'm saying is that I think we need to be careful not to rush tojudgment about all of this too quickly, or over-generalize it, and
lump it all together in one pot, and call all of it completely
Maybe and maybe not. I'm not going to believe anything thing that
David Icke, Mark Phillips, Cathy O'Brien, Laura Knight, Betty H.,
Mario, Twitchell, Gross, Klemp, L. Ron Hubbard, Tom Cruise, Bush,
Chaney, etc., etc., etc. have to say. So, although this may seem
like a rush to judgment or over-generalization and lumping together
in one pot all of those I consider as deluded or liars or a
combination of both... I still feel good about it!
By the way... I had mentioned the JFK assassination because I saw
Penn and Teller on Showtime do a segment on Conspiracy Theories.
They had some good information from independent tests on the firing
of the three shots which seemed to dispel the grassy knoll theory.
Oswald was not mentioned or his likely connection with Castro or
the Russians. And, Jack Ruby or LBJ spectulations weren't mentioned
either. It's all interesting but even more unfortunate when
governments withhold information that could give clarity and
closure. But, why did security allow several Arabs with box cutters
to board those flights? More incompetence! It's everywhere! It's
just in some places more than others. Ever been in the military?
There's a s___ load of it there and no end in sight! Actually,
sometimes it's fun to speculate on the bizarre or the unknown. Why
else have there been so many fiction, science fiction, and
mystery books written? People love it! Some just take it far too
- Hi Mish,
Yes, Limbaugh and O'Reilly do distort the truth.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
>>As for the government lying, well, yes, it is a daily occuranceand anyone who believes all the spins that are put out there would
I also think believing in the opinions of the likes of Rush
Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and others is also just as confusing and not
very factual. However, I do enjoy John Stewart on the Daily Show--
now, he is fun! : )
I once wrote an email to Bill O'Reilly and he (sort of) read it on
his show. I said "sort of" because he edited it so that the meaning
was changed. I had said something about Congress Not doing it's job
for two years while obsessing on Clinton and Monica. He turned it
around to make it seem that I was criticizing Clinton instead of the
Republican controlled Congress. I was watching the Daily Show
recently and they showed how O'Reilly lied about a study done in
Sweden where they supposedly allow gay couples to marry. The "study"
showed that the number of hetero-sexual marriages declined. The
problem is that Sweden does Not allow gays to marry and the "study"
was never done. O'Reilly just makes things up in order to throw his
guests off balance and to confuse them while making his agenda look
more valid. Now this is a conspiracy too! But, how far up the ladder
does it go, who benefits and in what ways? These are the real
conspiacies! Maybe the others are actually there to distract us from
what's real! Maybe the Conspiracy Theorists writing those books are
really secretive government employees supplying disinformation to
confuse and distract! After all, they seem to do a very good job at
pointing fingers and discrediting anything and everyone including