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Re: Ignore the Problems in Life!

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  • leecroth
    ... Each to his own, I guess...here s a reply to the friend that sent me your post: ) something you are dealing with? chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > "There might be a hundred dif-
      > ferent problems in the person's
      > life. Instead of wondering which
      > one to tackle first, I ignore the
      > problems. I try to show them
      > the way of divine love. Love
      > cuts through all this stuff."
      >
      > by Harold Klemp:
      > The Drumbeat of Time,
      > Mahanta Transcripts,
      > Book 10, page 222
      >
      > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
      > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
      > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
      > that?
      >
      > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
      > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
      > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
      > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
      > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
      > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
      > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
      >
      > Mish
      >

      Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
      your post:>)



      something you are dealing with?

      chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
      exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
      of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
      the problem times.

      My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
      much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
      body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
      urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.

      am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
      aches & mucous problems within by doing so.

      Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
      gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
      the body.

      So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
      of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
      favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
      it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
      pain wins again:>)


      Ciao
    • ctecvie
      ... *** What s that? You here to bring us back to eckankar! Forget it! LOL! ... *** Know what? My body knows, too, what it wants - and I know it as well! No
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "leecroth"
        <leecroth@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
        > >
        > > "There might be a hundred dif-
        > > ferent problems in the person's
        > > life. Instead of wondering which
        > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
        > > problems. I try to show them
        > > the way of divine love. Love
        > > cuts through all this stuff."
        > >
        > > by Harold Klemp:
        > > The Drumbeat of Time,
        > > Mahanta Transcripts,
        > > Book 10, page 222
        > >
        > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
        > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
        > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
        > > that?
        > >
        > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
        > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
        > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
        > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
        > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
        > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
        > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
        > >
        > > Mish
        > >
        >
        > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent
        >me
        > your post:>)
        >
        >
        >
        > something you are dealing with?
        >
        > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's
        >spiritual
        > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
        > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
        > the problem times.

        *** What's that? You here to bring us back to eckankar! Forget it!
        LOL!
        >
        > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
        > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what
        >my
        > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
        > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.

        *** Know what? My body knows, too, what it wants - and I know it as
        well! No miracles here, you just have to listen to your body. And if
        you don't, be aware of it at least.
        >
        > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
        > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.

        *** Great, good that you found the right method for yourself! But I
        can tell you, you don't need the mahanta for that - just go to a good
        doctor or nutritionist, or read websites about that!
        >
        > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
        > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons
        >to
        > the body.
        >
        > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating
        >lots
        > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
        > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
        > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
        > pain wins again:>)

        *** Well you know, your body just knew why it was so sick, and of
        course by listening to your mahanta, you dreamt about it. No
        surprises here either - that's just a conditioning!

        Ingrid
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Leecroth, Glad you found ESA. If you haven t already please read the ARCHIVES and check out the LINKS. I d like to now respond to your post. Either
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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          Hello Leecroth,
          Glad you found ESA. If you haven't already
          please read the ARCHIVES and check out the
          LINKS. I'd like to now respond to your post.

          Either you're missing my point or I'm missing
          yours. Klemp contradicts himself as he plays
          to his audience. HK has also said to eat sugar
          while you can... to enjoy the experience. As far
          as the sugar and white flour comment... is that
          supposed to be a profound spiritual message?
          Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta, simply states the
          obvious and what almost everyone else already
          knows!

          This seems to be the case with all of HK's quotes
          I see posted on HU-Chat. However, HK is now,
          basically, saying to just ignore white flour and
          sugar and things that could cause "problems"
          like what to eat! Just ignore disease and Chant
          HU to garner divine love.

          The Mahanta will see that your karma is taken
          care of, or that you are moved to the head of the
          line when you do croak!

          Have any deceased H.I.s ever returned in dreams,
          etc. to let ECKists know as to whether their grand
          Inner Master's promises have been kept or what
          their Mahanta's mission is now for them? Why not?
          These are the "ECK Masters" that should be visiting
          ECKists!

          If Joan can appear in dreams then why not those
          H.I.s who have translated? Why no stories of
          departed H.I.s appearing and giving advice or proving
          Paul's B.S.? Actually, Soul will mock-up whatever
          or whomever and this is what Twit already knew.
          That's what helps to give "proof" of ECK Masters.
          The immature Soul needs this proof to accept its
          existance before it is able to go beyond the limitations
          created by their own minds and Self doubts. The
          individual Soul needs to accept and recognize their
          own divine Self and Mastership. The ECKANKAR
          teachings prolong and prevent this from happening
          and act as a KAL distraction/test by holding Souls
          via a fake hierarchy with fake initiations and a fake
          Master-in-charge. They are truly hens in a 'henhouse!'

          Here's a comment from the original Mahanta P.T.:
          "You see Maya is actually the dreamworld in which you
          live in that dual viewpoint which sees good and bad.
          Therefore what is called sin is but an illusion..."
          [Letters to Gail, pg. 18]

          Prometheus

          leecroth wrote:
          >
          mishmisha wrote:
          > >
          "There might be a hundred different problems
          in the person's life. Instead of wondering which
          one to tackle first, I ignore the problems. I try to
          show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through
          all this stuff."

          by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
          Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
          > >
          HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
          the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
          to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
          that?
          > >
          I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
          Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
          He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
          people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
          ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
          no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
          HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!

          Mish
          > >
          >
          Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
          your post:>)
          >
          something you are dealing with?
          >
          chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
          exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
          of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
          the problem times.
          >
          My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
          much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
          body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
          urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
          >
          am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
          aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
          >
          Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
          gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
          the body.
          >
          So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
          of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
          favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
          it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
          pain wins again:>)
          >
          >
          Ciao
        • mishmisha9
          ... mishmisha9 ... Hi, Ciao! I agree that sitting quietly and contemplating can help one to find answers to problems but this is something any of us can do
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            "leecroth" <leecroth@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            "mishmisha9"
            > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
            > >
            > > "There might be a hundred dif-
            > > ferent problems in the person's
            > > life. Instead of wondering which
            > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
            > > problems. I try to show them
            > > the way of divine love. Love
            > > cuts through all this stuff."
            > >
            > > by Harold Klemp:
            > > The Drumbeat of Time,
            > > Mahanta Transcripts,
            > > Book 10, page 222
            > >
            > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
            > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
            > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
            > > that?
            > >
            > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
            > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
            > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
            > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
            > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
            > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
            > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            >
            > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
            > your post:>)
            >
            >
            >
            > something you are dealing with?
            >
            > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
            > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
            > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
            > the problem times.
            >
            > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
            > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
            > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
            > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
            >
            > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
            > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
            >
            > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
            > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
            > the body.
            >
            > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
            > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
            > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
            > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
            > pain wins again:>)
            >
            >
            > Ciao
            >

            Hi, Ciao!

            I agree that sitting quietly and contemplating can help one to find
            answers to problems but this is something any of us can do without
            the assistance or reliance on a fake mahanta/geeky individual like
            Harold Klemp.

            Klemp does not offer anything new or profound. Very often it is just
            mundane stuff that he has found sifting through the media sources--
            probably on the Internet like the rest of us. Yeah, I don't believe
            that he suffers from emr disease--that was more of a feeble attempt
            to keep chelas off the Internet and less exposed to the groups that
            continue to actively debunk eckankar.

            Even though pancakes and maple syrup are yummy, we all know they
            are not healthy foods, as well as the white flour and sugar--none of
            that is enlightening, either from you or Harold Klemp. It's all a part of
            education--not religiously based info! Frankly, just looking at Klemp
            in the physical, he doesn't look like a healthy specimen, does he? Why
            listen to his advice on health and diet?

            As to what you do, yes, I agree to each his own, but I am fascinated by
            your bathroom ritual of constantly testing for your ph balance.I've heard
            of eckists and other new agers doing this, so I do know that it is practiced
            by others! : )

            If I've misunderstood you, you're welcome to clarify. I just find
            surrendering one's problems to the mahanta is very misguided, often
            confusing and delaying a seeker from taking care of even the simplest
            of problems that we all come to face in our daily lives.

            Anyway, welcome to ESA. Thank you for your post.

            Mish
          • tomleafeater
            Hi Lee, Does your e-mail address mean Lee C. Roth? If so, I may have met you. Did you know eckists from Tucson? Anyway, we ve all felt as you do, once upon a
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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              Hi Lee,

              Does your e-mail address mean Lee C. Roth? If so, I may have
              met you. Did you know eckists from Tucson?

              Anyway, we've all felt as you do, once upon a time, long ago. I still
              have a couple of boxes full of eck material. When I go through
              the box to see what's in there after all these years, I can
              understand better why I was so duped as an eckist, especially
              back in the early years with Paul Twitchell, and actually, when I
              look at the early 'eck world news' and other writings, eckankar
              was clearly much more creative, artistic and fun in those days.
              No offense, but I've come to the firm conclusion that though Paul
              was the original flim flam man--the plagiarizing con man who
              started it all--Klemp has devolved eckankar to even new lows.
              Klemp isn't even fun, and damn, that's not good at all. Spirituality
              should be fun, at least once in a while. Klemp is a real drag and
              a downer, with all his moralistic sermonizing.

              That aside, you mentioned a few things I'd like to comment on.
              Did you know that the basic soul travel exercises are widely
              known in many yogic groups throughout India? Not only do the
              known Light and Sound groups from India use them, but I've
              encountered them in a wide variety of other yogic groups. The
              concept of light and sound is widely taught in India. You see,
              these exercises have been around a long time, and are passed
              down by various groups, and shared by many people over time.
              They aren't secrets. The only difference is the semantics. Some
              call it soul travel, some call it self actualization. Its the same
              thing. Some call it meditation, some call it contemplation. Its still
              the same thing. Identical!

              And of course, there are possible benefits from practicing the
              techniques, so it isn't surprising they have helped you. But this
              doesn't mean Klemp is the highest teacher and you're on the
              one and only path to omniscience. Most High Initiates, including
              klemp, are really as ordinary as anyone, despite the effort they go
              through to appear so aware.

              As to the supposed health secrets, these ideas of Klemp's are
              also widely known. He has found them by his own reading of the
              literature. I have years of extensive training in traditional Chinese
              medicine, which includes not only acupuncture, but nutrition,
              food therapy, extensive herbal training, and also a diagnostic
              system that takes years and years to master, as well as Western
              biomedical training that is part of the program of study. I treat
              people with a wide variety of health problems, including internal
              medical problems, gynecological complaints, and even difficult
              diseases such as cancer. I usually work with people who are
              also being treated by Western doctors.

              Klemp has benefited from acupuncture, according to his
              anecdotes in one of his books. He would have learned some
              things from the chinese doctor who treated him.

              The point is, the ideas he speaks of are not new, but very old in
              some cases. Sugar and starchy carbohydrates do cause
              problems when over-indulged in, a fact that has been known by
              the ancient Chinese, who were very observant of the effects of
              food and diet. There is a good reason--both from the ancient as
              well as the modern perspective--why such foods cause 'mucous'
              buildup and inflammation, resulting in aches and pains.

              I could direct you to several modern books on nutrition that not
              only discuss the concepts you mentioned, but several more of
              worthy note. This information is commonly available.

              Thinking back to Klemp's nutritional pronouncements, his ideas
              were quite rudimentary. He's touching on basics, and in some
              areas he is misleading people, in my opinion. Hulda Clark's
              ideas are questionable, for example.

              I did agree with his changing eckankar policy regarding the
              weekly fast, which he removed as a strict discipline. He was
              correct in doing that., given the prevalent insulin resistance that
              is occurring with most Americans in our age.

              But he is not a qualified health professional, and there is much
              more that may be helpful than falls within his scope of
              knowledge. Its wonderful you were helped, but it wasn't inner
              wisdom that Klemp offered, but information that is widely
              circulating if one knows where to look. Klemp's own health
              problems with environmental illness (very likely resulting from
              his own previous dietary habits, including his heavy drinking at
              one time, in my opinion) have surely been a catalyst for Klemp's
              OWN search for solutions, which have led him to visit various
              health practitioners, all paid by eckankar, of course. He in turn
              has passed on the information gleaned from others to you.

              By the way, Paul T's herb book is much out of date, and there are
              numerous errors in the book.

              Kent






              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "leecroth" <leecroth@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "mishmisha9"
              > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
              > >
              > > "There might be a hundred dif-
              > > ferent problems in the person's
              > > life. Instead of wondering which
              > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
              > > problems. I try to show them
              > > the way of divine love. Love
              > > cuts through all this stuff."
              > >
              > > by Harold Klemp:
              > > The Drumbeat of Time,
              > > Mahanta Transcripts,
              > > Book 10, page 222
              > >
              > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
              > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
              > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
              > > that?
              > >
              > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
              > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
              > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
              > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
              > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
              > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
              > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
              > >
              > > Mish
              > >
              >
              > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent
              me
              > your post:>)
              >
              >
              >
              > something you are dealing with?
              >
              > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's
              spiritual
              > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the
              myriad
              > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience
              most of
              > the problem times.
              >
              > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products,
              too
              > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what
              my
              > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
              > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
              >
              > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
              > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
              >
              > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a
              small
              > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons
              to
              > the body.
              >
              > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating
              lots
              > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my
              absolute
              > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
              > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
              > pain wins again:>)
              >
              >
              > Ciao
              >
            • etznab@aol.com
              I took a client shopping at a bread store the other day. There must have been three to five different flavors of maple syrup on the shelf. I read the
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
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                   I took a client shopping at a bread store the other day.
                There must have been three to five different flavors of
                maple syrup on the shelf. I read the ingredients. Not one
                bottle [labeled as maple syrup] contained any maple syrup
                at all! What they did contain were high fructose corn syrup
                and artificial flavors, etc.

                   Maple syrup is loaded with natural minerals and a
                safer form of sugar than the processed kind. The mineral
                content [in part] comes from the fact that trees have very
                long roots that can tap the mineral stores deep down in
                the earth. Maple syrup is also one of the ingredients in
                the "Master Cleanse" drink [consisting of lemon juice,
                maple syrup, and cayenne pepper]. Lemon juice comes
                from a tree as well. Cayenne pepper [among other things]
                is good for ridding the body of excess mucus or phlegm.

                   Not all "maple syrup" is the same - especially when
                the majority of brands sold today have little or none at
                all.

                   As for sugar, there are several different forms of it
                too.

                Etznab
              • prometheus_973
                Hi All, I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to come in touch with my higher Self. This
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
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                  Hi All,
                  I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                  chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                  come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                  opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                  especially, when a question or more specific information
                  is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                  how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                  that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.

                  ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                  on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                  attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                  all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                  Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                  and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                  relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                  ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                  bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."

                  However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                  Chant, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof that the ECK
                  Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves that the promise
                  of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is a lie too!

                  Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                  are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                  know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                  Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!

                  When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                  of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                  this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                  Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                  abilities on the INNER is a lie too!

                  So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                  in determining our individual and group reality and
                  consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                  course, or problems (imbalance) arise.

                  Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                  beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                  from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                  therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                  and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                  own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                  religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                  'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                  (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                  higher values required of them.

                  Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                  where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                  with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                  Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                  people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                  who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                  have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                  8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                  about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!

                  However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                  learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                  required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                  Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                  for Soul?

                  Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                  of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                  growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                  is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                  again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                  teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                  like Rich and Cheryl!

                  Prometheus



                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi All,
                  > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                  > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                  > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                  > what value and meaning it has for us.
                  >
                  > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                  > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                  > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                  > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                  >
                  > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                  > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                  > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                  > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                  > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                  > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                  > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                  > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                  > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                  > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                  > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                  > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                  > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                  > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                  > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                  > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                  > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                  > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                  > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                  > higher awareness.
                  >
                  > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                  > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                  > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                  > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                  >
                  > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                  > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                  > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                  > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                  > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                  > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                  >
                  > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                  > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                  > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Non ekster wrote:
                  > >
                  > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                  > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                  > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                  > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                  > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                  > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                  > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                  > deceiver, Klemp.
                  > >
                  > Noneckster
                  > >
                  > mishmisha wrote:
                  > > >
                  > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                  > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                  > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                  > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                  > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                  > > >
                  > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                  > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                  > How nutty is that?
                  > > >
                  > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                  > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                  > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                  > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                  > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                  > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                  > > >
                  > Mish
                  >
                • mishmisha9
                  Here s Rich s (Cyber-Sailor s) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.: the vision is sometimes muddied by those
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 12, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
                    in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:

                    "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
                    form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
                    and a cynical limited view."

                    It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
                    so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
                    Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
                    to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
                    Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )

                    The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
                    accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
                    and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
                    growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
                    Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
                    state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???

                    Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
                    before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
                    religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
                    a critical thinker.

                    Mish

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                    "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi All,
                    > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                    > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                    > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                    > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                    > especially, when a question or more specific information
                    > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                    > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                    > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
                    >
                    > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                    > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                    > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                    > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                    > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                    > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                    > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                    > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                    > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
                    >
                    > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                    > Chant, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof that the ECK
                    > Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves that the promise
                    > of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is a lie too!
                    >
                    > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                    > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                    > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                    > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
                    >
                    > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                    > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                    > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                    > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                    > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
                    >
                    > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                    > in determining our individual and group reality and
                    > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                    > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
                    >
                    > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                    > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                    > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                    > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                    > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                    > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                    > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                    > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                    > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                    > higher values required of them.
                    >
                    > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                    > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                    > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                    > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                    > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                    > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                    > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                    > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                    > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
                    >
                    > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                    > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                    > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                    > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                    > for Soul?
                    >
                    > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                    > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                    > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                    > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                    > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                    > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                    > like Rich and Cheryl!
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi All,
                    > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                    > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                    > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                    > > what value and meaning it has for us.
                    > >
                    > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                    > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                    > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                    > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                    > >
                    > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                    > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                    > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                    > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                    > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                    > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                    > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                    > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                    > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                    > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                    > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                    > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                    > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                    > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                    > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                    > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                    > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                    > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                    > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                    > > higher awareness.
                    > >
                    > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                    > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                    > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                    > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                    > >
                    > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                    > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                    > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                    > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                    > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                    > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                    > >
                    > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                    > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                    > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Non ekster wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                    > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                    > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                    > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                    > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                    > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                    > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                    > > deceiver, Klemp.
                    > > >
                    > > Noneckster
                    > > >
                    > > mishmisha wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                    > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                    > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                    > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                    > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                    > > > >
                    > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                    > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                    > > How nutty is that?
                    > > > >
                    > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                    > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                    > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                    > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                    > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                    > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                    > > > >
                    > > Mish
                    > >
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hi Mish, I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean, nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT. Klemp just can t control her can he!
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 12, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Mish,
                      I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean,
                      nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT.
                      Klemp just can't control her can he! You'd think that
                      someone at the ESC would be in charge. Yes, it seems
                      Klemp's talk about doing something about those H.I.
                      Foxes outside of the ECKANKAR Henhouse must be
                      more cheap talk! That's one of the "problems" Klemp
                      has always had... Not implementing, especially in a timely
                      manner, and Not following-thru.

                      Maybe HK's comments from the 12/2006 H.I. Letter will be
                      studied, and discussed (for awhile longer). Some suggestions
                      will probably be mailed to RESAs and RESA Services. I'm sure
                      that this H.I. Fox problem Will Not take the usual Five Years
                      to be resolved. Instead, my prediction is that this H.I.
                      KAL-ECK 'FOX' situation will continue to be ignored but
                      Not forgotten as long as KAL-ECK Vahanas Rich and Cheryl
                      are posting.

                      Prometheus

                      mishmisha wrote:
                      >
                      > Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
                      > in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:
                      >
                      > "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
                      > form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
                      > and a cynical limited view."
                      >
                      > It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
                      > so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
                      > Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
                      > to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
                      > Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )
                      >
                      > The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
                      > accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
                      > and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
                      > growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
                      > Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
                      > state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???
                      >
                      > Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
                      > before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
                      > religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
                      > a critical thinker.
                      >
                      > Mish
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                      > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi All,
                      > > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                      > > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                      > > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                      > > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                      > > especially, when a question or more specific information
                      > > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                      > > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                      > > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
                      > >
                      > > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                      > > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                      > > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                      > > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                      > > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                      > > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                      > > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                      > > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                      > > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
                      > >
                      > > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                      > > Chant, Chela-Chat, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof
                      >> that the ECK Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves
                      >> that the promise of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is
                      >> a lie too!
                      > >
                      > > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                      > > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                      > > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                      > > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
                      > >
                      > > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                      > > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                      > > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                      > > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                      > > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
                      > >
                      > > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                      > > in determining our individual and group reality and
                      > > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                      > > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
                      > >
                      > > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                      > > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                      > > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                      > > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                      > > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                      > > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                      > > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                      > > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                      > > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                      > > higher values required of them.
                      > >
                      > > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                      > > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                      > > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                      > > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                      > > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                      > > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                      > > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                      > > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                      > > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
                      > >
                      > > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                      > > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                      > > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                      > > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                      > > for Soul?
                      > >
                      > > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                      > > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                      > > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                      > > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                      > > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                      > > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                      > > like Rich and Cheryl!
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi All,
                      > > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                      > > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                      > > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                      > > > what value and meaning it has for us.
                      > > >
                      > > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                      > > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                      > > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                      > > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                      > > >
                      > > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                      > > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                      > > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                      > > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                      > > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                      > > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                      > > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                      > > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                      > > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                      > > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                      > > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                      > > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                      > > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                      > > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                      > > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                      > > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                      > > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                      > > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                      > > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                      > > > higher awareness.
                      > > >
                      > > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                      > > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                      > > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                      > > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                      > > >
                      > > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                      > > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                      > > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                      > > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                      > > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                      > > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                      > > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                      > > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Non ekster wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                      > > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                      > > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                      > > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                      > > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                      > > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                      > > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                      > > > deceiver, Klemp.
                      > > > >
                      > > > Noneckster
                      > > > >
                      > > > mishmisha wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                      > > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                      > > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                      > > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                      > > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                      > > > > >
                      > > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                      > > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                      > > > How nutty is that?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                      > > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                      > > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                      > > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                      > > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                      > > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > Mish
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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