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Re: ECKANKAR IS NOT A BENIGN CULT!!

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  • ctecvie
    I know an ex-eckist who found David Lane and left the teachings silently. He began to translate David Lane s book into German and then the pink slip for his
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 6, 2007
      I know an ex-eckist who found David Lane and left the teachings
      silently. He began to translate David Lane's book into German and
      then the pink slip for his next initiation arrived.

      Perhaps the all-knowing mahanta thought this accomplishment was worth
      a reward! LOL!

      Ingrid

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > The arbitrary way in which the ECK Initiations come to
      > ECKists proves that there is no inner communication
      > with their Master. There is no equality of consciousness
      > within the same Circle of Initiation! It's not even close!
      > Therefore, how can there be any truth in the words:
      > 'I am always with you.' It's a lie that innocent people
      > have willingly bought into because they want and need
      > to believe in the lie of religion. And, the Eckankar religion
      > may be different and unique and give more answers when
      > compared to most other religions, but that doesn't mean
      > it's all true. Except for the LEM/Mahanta, the Initiations,
      > and the ECK Masters much of what Twitchell "compiled"
      > has some merit for Soul's individual investigation/journey.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > pretujari wrote:
      > > >
      >
      > Hello,
      > This reminds me of two scenerios regarding the initiations. One was
      > to do with a couple. The husband was really perplexed when the pink
      > slip came for him and the wife for their 4th. According to the man,
      > he never understood why his wife also received the 4th because she
      > was quarrellsome, never practiced her spiritual exercises, nor had
      > much time for Eckankar.He told me this when I explained the truth
      > about the eckankar initiations to him.
      > >
      >
      > The other was an elderly woman who was very close to me.
      > She confided in me amidst tears that she had stayed in the
      > 3rd initiation for years. As she cried while narrating this, she
      > wondered why and what she had done, since others who came
      > after her had bypassed her in initiations. Unfortunately, she
      > did not live long enough to know the truth. Am sure all has been
      > made clear to her on the other side.
      > Pretujari.
      >
      > >
      >
      **********************************************************************
      *
      > >
      > Pretujari, this story about the elderly woman demonstrates why
      > eckankar is not a benign cult! It is really sad that she was so
      > tormented about making those initiation levels up until her time
      > of passing! Shame on Klemp and his fraudulent org for sucking
      > the life out of innocent Souls who just want to achieve a sincere
      > connection with God! I feel both sad and angry to think of this
      > woman's sorrow--it's not a good way to live one's life feeling
      passed
      > over like that!
      > >
      > Klemp will ultimately pay for his lies and deceptions! He talks
      about
      > fear so I have to wonder if he doesn't suffer from real fears in
      > knowing that he has been committing these great spiritual crimes?
      > >
      > Eckankar is not harmless in that it does damage Souls.
      > >
      > Mish
      >
      > >
      **********************************************************************
      ****
      > tianyue wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > Ex-Initiator's Guide to Initiations
      > > > >
      > [I've posted an earlier version of this before, and with the
      > discussion of secret words that has been ongoing on another group,
      > I thought this might be a good time to repost this. I've revised
      > this, and added rebuttles to comments Eckists have made to the
      original.-
      > K.A.]
      >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > When I received the sixth initiation, I had essentially
      already
      > > > > decided to leave Eckankar. I was still hanging on out of some
      > > > slight
      > > > > uncertainty, and also had decided to maintain my membership
      due to
      > > > > the fact that my partner, Lisa, still remained loyal to
      Eckankar. A
      > > > > year or two had passed while I was in this state of serious
      doubt
      > > > and
      > > > > skepticism, when the pink slip for the sixth initiation came.
      I was
      > > > > surprised to say the least. Yet I wasn't too surprised. This
      > > > > confirmed what I already suspected: Initiations are not
      overseen or
      > > > > approved by a Mahanta or some omniscient being, but by a
      computer,
      > > > > with the assistance of initiate reports, and recommendations
      by the
      > > > > local Resa and other local High Initiates. I remained in
      Eckankar
      > > > for
      > > > > years after this, until the day my mate felt as I did, and we
      both
      > > > > resigned.
      > > > >
      > > > > Lest there are those in Eckankar who don't yet know this,
      lists are
      > > > > periodically sent out with names generated by a computer to
      the
      > > > state
      > > > > Resa (Regional Eck Spiritual Aid), who confers with local
      High
      > > > > Initiates to either recommend or not, an initiation (Klemp
      himself
      > > > > wrote of the computers producing the initiation lists a while
      back
      > > > as
      > > > > I recall). Around the time I left Eckankar, most Eckists were
      > > > > automatically placed on the list every four or five years or
      so. If
      > > > > for some reason an Eckist was denied, they would usually show
      up
      > > > > again on the next year's list. Local H.I.'s in my area
      (including
      > > > > myself) would routinely talk over the names on the list via
      the
      > > > > telephone, and give their recommendations to the Resa
      according to
      > > > > each chela's loyalty and degree of outer service to the org.
      Those
      > > > > who were especially "troublesome" could be denied the
      initiation.
      > > > The
      > > > > Resa emphasized loyalty as the most important trait. The
      results
      > > > from
      > > > > the Resa are sent back to Minneapolis HQ where assistants
      appointed
      > > > > by Harold approve or deny the initiation based on such things
      as
      > > > the
      > > > > time served as a dues paying member, the Resa
      recommendations, and
      > > > > initiate reports. Some, including myself, have observed that
      > > > initiate
      > > > > reports (especially those which are positive or are written
      in
      > > > praise
      > > > > of the org) definitely can play a role in the initiation
      approval
      > > > > process.
      > > > >
      > > > > Despite this, few people were denied an initiation if they
      were on
      > > > > the list. Eckankar has a very liberal policy toward
      initiations. I
      > > > > noticed that those who followed the disciplines well fared no
      > > > better
      > > > > or worse than those who didn't. I noticed people who smoked,
      drank
      > > > or
      > > > > never did their exercises stood just as great a chance of
      receiving
      > > > > the fifth initiation as anyone <G>. More than anything, the
      > > > > initiations were awarded based on time as a member. The rate
      at
      > > > which
      > > > > initiations were received could be accelerated or delayed
      based on
      > > > > the chelas relationship with local H.I.'s and, especially,
      the
      > > > state
      > > > > Resa, who has a great deal of influence in such matters.
      > > > >
      > > > > And one other thing is clear: Those who do not substantially
      > > > conform
      > > > > to the expectations of the group are the ones most likely to
      be
      > > > > denied an initiation. Despite this, the H.I.'s or Resa's in
      > > > different
      > > > > areas may vary in their tolerance levels, which accounts for
      the
      > > > > stories heard about individuals who never received
      initiations in
      > > > one
      > > > > locale suddenly begin to receive them after moving to another
      area.
      > > > > Also, I've witnessed initiations being approved after three
      or four
      > > > > H.I's gave their unsolicited recommendations to Spiritual
      Services
      > > > on
      > > > > behalf of certain chelas who were thought of as exceptionally
      > > > > deserving.
      > > > >
      > > > > I once had a friend who was extremely devoted to Eckankar,
      who had
      > > > > lived in a remote area during most of her time as a member,
      and
      > > > > didn't realize Eckankar's policy that time served as a dues
      paying
      > > > > member counted toward initiation. As a result, she didn't
      receive
      > > > > initiations for years do to the fact that she kept forgetting
      to
      > > > > renew her membership, thinking such things to be of the
      material
      > > > > worlds! She had no idea such trivialities mattered to the
      > > > omniscient
      > > > > Mahanta! This woman had a life membership (at one time you
      could
      > > > pay
      > > > > a large one time fee, $2,000, for a membership for life) but
      was
      > > > > still required to notify Eckankar of her intent to renew
      annually,
      > > > > though no additional fee was required. She didn't think such
      > > > > formalities were all that important, and as a result, due to
      a less
      > > > > than exemplary membership record, received no initiations
      beyond
      > > > the
      > > > > second, despite years of devotion to Eckankar. One often may
      hear
      > > > > Eckists parroting that such outer initiations matter little,
      yet
      > > > > privately, most Eckists seem to feel very strongly about the
      > > > > initiations they are awarded.
      > > > >
      > > > > This isn't spoken of very much out in the open in Eckankar,
      but
      > > > > people such as the woman in the example can become quite
      > > > > disillusioned and depressed over not keeping up with their
      peers,
      > > > > feeling left behind, unwanted, and forgotten by the Mahanta.
      They
      > > > see
      > > > > others who are seemingly less deserving receiving
      initiations,
      > > > > whereas they, despite being very devoted to Eckankar and the
      > > > > associated disciplines, seem to fall hopelessly behind. Due
      to
      > > > > Eckankar's policy that one not ever request initiations, many
      > > > suffer
      > > > > in silence, sensing justifiably that something isn't quite
      right,
      > > > yet
      > > > > fear to even ask about the possibility of an error. In many
      cases,
      > > > > even when they do ask, they face a stony silence from the
      org, or
      > > > are
      > > > > told they are being "tested" spiritually, when all that is
      needed
      > > > is
      > > > > a quick check of the record. This is one of the way's such a
      system
      > > > > can inflict undue pain upon its members, and is one reason I
      am
      > > > > taking the time to write about this in detail.
      > > > >
      > > > > Think about the numbers involved in the initiation approval
      > > > process.
      > > > > If there are, as claimed, 50,000 members in the org, and each
      is
      > > > > considered for an initiation every five years or so, then
      that
      > > > would
      > > > > average 10,000 per year, or 833 per month, or about 40 per
      day
      > > > > (excluding weekends), or about one initiation to be approved
      every
      > > > 10
      > > > > to 15 minutes in an average eight hour day. Klemp would have
      to
      > > > work
      > > > > full time on initiations every day for the rest of his life
      to
      > > > spend
      > > > > 10 to 15 minutes every five years on the "individual" member
      (do
      > > > the
      > > > > math and see for yourself). Klemp has said that he checks the
      inner
      > > > > akashic and soul records to make such a choice. Remember that
      this
      > > > > would have to be done to merely consider a person for
      initiation,
      > > > > that is, to give each chela the individual attention and
      > > > > consideration that is due, whether or not the chela is
      actually
      > > > > approved for initiation.
      > > > >
      > > > > Klemp would have to live out of the body most of his life to
      > > > > accomplish such a feat. He would have no time for seminars,
      writing
      > > > > his constant supply of books, writing his speeches, eating,
      > > > drinking,
      > > > > sleeping, going to meetings, running the corporation, etc.
      For
      > > > those
      > > > > who argue that such reading of soul records does not take
      time,
      > > > > consider that Klemp has discontinued private requests for
      > > > > consultations to do soul readings because, according to him,
      it
      > > > takes
      > > > > hours to accomplish an accurate reading of the soul records
      of just
      > > > > one person. Thus, a mere fifteen minutes would not be
      sufficient to
      > > > > approve an initiation, even if he did spend all day, every
      day of
      > > > his
      > > > > life approving initiations. Think about this!
      > > > >
      > > > > From this it can be deduced that Klemp has, for the most
      part,
      > > > > nothing to do with the initiations, other than, perhaps,
      performing
      > > > a
      > > > > perfunctory blessing of them in the eckankar offices to fool
      the
      > > > > membership. He simply doesn't have the time.
      > > > >
      > > > > Remember this key point: It's a fact that someone would have
      to act
      > > > > on the physical plane to approve the initiations and
      physically
      > > > send
      > > > > out pink slips. No matter how you slice it, this person (or
      more
      > > > > likely, persons) is not the Living Eck Master, but rather,
      several
      > > > > paid employees.
      > > > >
      > > > > Some people argue that the true initiations are "inner," and
      > > > > therefore the outer initiations are not the true initiations.
      The
      > > > > fallacy in the logic of this argument is that Twitchell
      originally
      > > > > stated that the inner initiation comes before the outer, due
      to the
      > > > > principle of "as above, so below," which means that outer
      events
      > > > > occur on the inner first, manifesting outwardly later. Klemp
      has
      > > > > attempted to confuse people by reversing this, claiming that
      it
      > > > takes
      > > > > time to grow into an initiation. But here Klemp contradicts
      > > > himself,
      > > > > since Klemp has expressly stated in writing that he
      personally
      > > > > approves the outer initiations by reading the inner soul
      records.
      > > > > This means the person receiving the outer initiation would
      have,
      > > > > according to Klemp's own written statements, already have the
      inner
      > > > > preparation, and thus would have received the inner
      initiation. It
      > > > is
      > > > > absurd to conclude that Klemp, in taking time to read the
      soul
      > > > > records to approve the outer initiation, would not include as
      part
      > > > of
      > > > > that time and effort the giving of the actual inner
      initiation, if
      > > > > after having read the soul records it was determined the
      chela was
      > > > > eligible for the initiation. Thus, the logic that the inner
      and
      > > > outer
      > > > > initiations are separate and not inextricably linked is
      denied in
      > > > > statements by Eckankar's only presumed authority, the Living
      Eck
      > > > > Master, Harold Klemp. And the obvious fact is, Klemp would
      not have
      > > > > the requisite time that he has stated is necessary to read so
      many
      > > > > soul records each day of his life. He has been caught up in
      his own
      > > > > contradictory statements and revealed himself to be a fraud.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thus, the initiations are entirely bogus. They represent
      nothing
      > > > more
      > > > > than organizational status. Observe the behavior of the
      online
      > > > > clergy. These are not enlightened beings. They are ordinary
      people
      > > > > caught up in the throes of everyday life, like most people
      are in
      > > > the
      > > > > rest of the world.
      > > > >
      > > > > Kent
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Ingrid, The ECK Initiations along with all of the other inner teachings and dogma of ECKANKAR are just PRETEND! Klemp has stated: Acting AS IF is a
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 7, 2007
        Hi Ingrid,
        The ECK Initiations along with all of the other "inner"
        teachings and dogma of ECKANKAR are just PRETEND!
        Klemp has stated: "Acting 'AS IF' is a principle of ECK.
        You establish a goal, then ACT AS IF the WISH is fulfilled
        and the DREAM completed. In this way you CREATE your
        OWN world." H.K. The Dream Master, pg. 81 [My caps]

        It's no wonder that these gullible and spiritually immature
        ECKists continue to accept an authority figure over them.
        At the same time they fear taking on responsibility for their
        own thoughts, words. feelings, actions, and reactions. They
        need a fake Mahanta because they are weak and immature
        Souls.

        Prometheus

        ctecvie wrote:
        >
        I know an ex-eckist who found David Lane and left the teachings
        silently. He began to translate David Lane's book into German and
        then the pink slip for his next initiation arrived.
        >
        Perhaps the all-knowing mahanta thought this accomplishment
        was worth a reward! LOL!
        >
        Ingrid
        >
        prometheus wrote:
        > >
        The arbitrary way in which the ECK Initiations come to
        ECKists proves that there is no inner communication
        with their Master. There is no equality of consciousness
        within the same Circle of Initiation! It's not even close!
        Therefore, how can there be any truth in the words:
        'I am always with you.' It's a lie that innocent people
        have willingly bought into because they want and need
        to believe in the lie of religion. And, the Eckankar religion
        may be different and unique and give more answers when
        compared to most other religions, but that doesn't mean
        it's all true. Except for the LEM/Mahanta, the Initiations,
        and the ECK Masters much of what Twitchell "compiled"
        has some merit for Soul's individual investigation/journey.
        > >
        Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        pretujari wrote:
        > > > >
        > >
        Hello,
        This reminds me of two scenerios regarding the initiations. One was
        to do with a couple. The husband was really perplexed when the pink
        slip came for him and the wife for their 4th. According to the man,
        he never understood why his wife also received the 4th because she
        was quarrellsome, never practiced her spiritual exercises, nor had
        much time for Eckankar.He told me this when I explained the truth
        about the eckankar initiations to him.
        > > >
        The other was an elderly woman who was very close to me.
        She confided in me amidst tears that she had stayed in the
        3rd initiation for years. As she cried while narrating this, she
        wondered why and what she had done, since others who came
        after her had bypassed her in initiations. Unfortunately, she
        did not live long enough to know the truth. Am sure all has been
        made clear to her on the other side.
        Pretujari.
        **********************************************************************

        > > >
        Pretujari, this story about the elderly woman demonstrates why
        eckankar is not a benign cult! It is really sad that she was so
        tormented about making those initiation levels up until her time
        of passing! Shame on Klemp and his fraudulent org for sucking
        the life out of innocent Souls who just want to achieve a sincere
        connection with God! I feel both sad and angry to think of this
        woman's sorrow--it's not a good way to live one's life feeling
        passed over like that!
        > > >
        Klemp will ultimately pay for his lies and deceptions! He talks
        about fear so I have to wonder if he doesn't suffer from real fears
        in knowing that he has been committing these great spiritual
        crimes?
        > > >
        Eckankar is not harmless in that it does damage Souls.
        > > >
        Mish


        **************************************************************

        tianyue wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        Ex-Initiator's Guide to Initiations
        > > > > >
        [I've posted an earlier version of this before, and with the
        discussion of secret words that has been ongoing on another group,
        I thought this might be a good time to repost this. I've revised
        this, and added rebuttles to comments Eckists have made to the
        original.-
        K.A.]
        > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        When I received the sixth initiation, I had essentially
        already decided to leave Eckankar. I was still hanging on out
        of some slight uncertainty, and also had decided to maintain
        my membership due to the fact that my partner, Lisa, still
        remained loyal to Eckankar. A year or two had passed while
        I was in this state of serious doubt and skepticism, when the
        pink slip for the sixth initiation came. I was surprised to say
        the least. Yet I wasn't too surprised. This confirmed what I
        already suspected: Initiations are not overseen or approved
        by a Mahanta or some omniscient being, but by a computer,
        with the assistance of initiate reports, and recommendations
        by the local Resa and other local High Initiates. I remained in
        Eckankar for years after this, until the day my mate felt as I did,
        and we both resigned.

        Lest there are those in Eckankar who don't yet know this,
        lists are periodically sent out with names generated by a
        computer to the state Resa (Regional Eck Spiritual Aid),
        who confers with local High Initiates to either recommend
        or not, an initiation (Klemp himself wrote of the computers
        producing the initiation lists a while back as I recall).
        [snip]
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