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Re: ECKANKAR IS NOT A BENIGN CULT!!

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  • prometheus_973
    The arbitrary way in which the ECK Initiations come to ECKists proves that there is no inner communication with their Master. There is no equality of
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 6, 2007
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      The arbitrary way in which the ECK Initiations come to
      ECKists proves that there is no inner communication
      with their Master. There is no equality of consciousness
      within the same Circle of Initiation! It's not even close!
      Therefore, how can there be any truth in the words:
      'I am always with you.' It's a lie that innocent people
      have willingly bought into because they want and need
      to believe in the lie of religion. And, the Eckankar religion
      may be different and unique and give more answers when
      compared to most other religions, but that doesn't mean
      it's all true. Except for the LEM/Mahanta, the Initiations,
      and the ECK Masters much of what Twitchell "compiled"
      has some merit for Soul's individual investigation/journey.

      Prometheus


      pretujari wrote:
      > >

      Hello,
      This reminds me of two scenerios regarding the initiations. One was
      to do with a couple. The husband was really perplexed when the pink
      slip came for him and the wife for their 4th. According to the man,
      he never understood why his wife also received the 4th because she
      was quarrellsome, never practiced her spiritual exercises, nor had
      much time for Eckankar.He told me this when I explained the truth
      about the eckankar initiations to him.
      >

      The other was an elderly woman who was very close to me.
      She confided in me amidst tears that she had stayed in the
      3rd initiation for years. As she cried while narrating this, she
      wondered why and what she had done, since others who came
      after her had bypassed her in initiations. Unfortunately, she
      did not live long enough to know the truth. Am sure all has been
      made clear to her on the other side.
      Pretujari.

      >
      ***********************************************************************
      >
      Pretujari, this story about the elderly woman demonstrates why
      eckankar is not a benign cult! It is really sad that she was so
      tormented about making those initiation levels up until her time
      of passing! Shame on Klemp and his fraudulent org for sucking
      the life out of innocent Souls who just want to achieve a sincere
      connection with God! I feel both sad and angry to think of this
      woman's sorrow--it's not a good way to live one's life feeling passed
      over like that!
      >
      Klemp will ultimately pay for his lies and deceptions! He talks about
      fear so I have to wonder if he doesn't suffer from real fears in
      knowing that he has been committing these great spiritual crimes?
      >
      Eckankar is not harmless in that it does damage Souls.
      >
      Mish

      > **************************************************************************
      tianyue wrote:
      > >
      > >
      Ex-Initiator's Guide to Initiations
      > > >
      [I've posted an earlier version of this before, and with the
      discussion of secret words that has been ongoing on another group,
      I thought this might be a good time to repost this. I've revised
      this, and added rebuttles to comments Eckists have made to the original.-
      K.A.]

      > > >
      > > >
      > > > When I received the sixth initiation, I had essentially already
      > > > decided to leave Eckankar. I was still hanging on out of some
      > > slight
      > > > uncertainty, and also had decided to maintain my membership due to
      > > > the fact that my partner, Lisa, still remained loyal to Eckankar. A
      > > > year or two had passed while I was in this state of serious doubt
      > > and
      > > > skepticism, when the pink slip for the sixth initiation came. I was
      > > > surprised to say the least. Yet I wasn't too surprised. This
      > > > confirmed what I already suspected: Initiations are not overseen or
      > > > approved by a Mahanta or some omniscient being, but by a computer,
      > > > with the assistance of initiate reports, and recommendations by the
      > > > local Resa and other local High Initiates. I remained in Eckankar
      > > for
      > > > years after this, until the day my mate felt as I did, and we both
      > > > resigned.
      > > >
      > > > Lest there are those in Eckankar who don't yet know this, lists are
      > > > periodically sent out with names generated by a computer to the
      > > state
      > > > Resa (Regional Eck Spiritual Aid), who confers with local High
      > > > Initiates to either recommend or not, an initiation (Klemp himself
      > > > wrote of the computers producing the initiation lists a while back
      > > as
      > > > I recall). Around the time I left Eckankar, most Eckists were
      > > > automatically placed on the list every four or five years or so. If
      > > > for some reason an Eckist was denied, they would usually show up
      > > > again on the next year's list. Local H.I.'s in my area (including
      > > > myself) would routinely talk over the names on the list via the
      > > > telephone, and give their recommendations to the Resa according to
      > > > each chela's loyalty and degree of outer service to the org. Those
      > > > who were especially "troublesome" could be denied the initiation.
      > > The
      > > > Resa emphasized loyalty as the most important trait. The results
      > > from
      > > > the Resa are sent back to Minneapolis HQ where assistants appointed
      > > > by Harold approve or deny the initiation based on such things as
      > > the
      > > > time served as a dues paying member, the Resa recommendations, and
      > > > initiate reports. Some, including myself, have observed that
      > > initiate
      > > > reports (especially those which are positive or are written in
      > > praise
      > > > of the org) definitely can play a role in the initiation approval
      > > > process.
      > > >
      > > > Despite this, few people were denied an initiation if they were on
      > > > the list. Eckankar has a very liberal policy toward initiations. I
      > > > noticed that those who followed the disciplines well fared no
      > > better
      > > > or worse than those who didn't. I noticed people who smoked, drank
      > > or
      > > > never did their exercises stood just as great a chance of receiving
      > > > the fifth initiation as anyone <G>. More than anything, the
      > > > initiations were awarded based on time as a member. The rate at
      > > which
      > > > initiations were received could be accelerated or delayed based on
      > > > the chelas relationship with local H.I.'s and, especially, the
      > > state
      > > > Resa, who has a great deal of influence in such matters.
      > > >
      > > > And one other thing is clear: Those who do not substantially
      > > conform
      > > > to the expectations of the group are the ones most likely to be
      > > > denied an initiation. Despite this, the H.I.'s or Resa's in
      > > different
      > > > areas may vary in their tolerance levels, which accounts for the
      > > > stories heard about individuals who never received initiations in
      > > one
      > > > locale suddenly begin to receive them after moving to another area.
      > > > Also, I've witnessed initiations being approved after three or four
      > > > H.I's gave their unsolicited recommendations to Spiritual Services
      > > on
      > > > behalf of certain chelas who were thought of as exceptionally
      > > > deserving.
      > > >
      > > > I once had a friend who was extremely devoted to Eckankar, who had
      > > > lived in a remote area during most of her time as a member, and
      > > > didn't realize Eckankar's policy that time served as a dues paying
      > > > member counted toward initiation. As a result, she didn't receive
      > > > initiations for years do to the fact that she kept forgetting to
      > > > renew her membership, thinking such things to be of the material
      > > > worlds! She had no idea such trivialities mattered to the
      > > omniscient
      > > > Mahanta! This woman had a life membership (at one time you could
      > > pay
      > > > a large one time fee, $2,000, for a membership for life) but was
      > > > still required to notify Eckankar of her intent to renew annually,
      > > > though no additional fee was required. She didn't think such
      > > > formalities were all that important, and as a result, due to a less
      > > > than exemplary membership record, received no initiations beyond
      > > the
      > > > second, despite years of devotion to Eckankar. One often may hear
      > > > Eckists parroting that such outer initiations matter little, yet
      > > > privately, most Eckists seem to feel very strongly about the
      > > > initiations they are awarded.
      > > >
      > > > This isn't spoken of very much out in the open in Eckankar, but
      > > > people such as the woman in the example can become quite
      > > > disillusioned and depressed over not keeping up with their peers,
      > > > feeling left behind, unwanted, and forgotten by the Mahanta. They
      > > see
      > > > others who are seemingly less deserving receiving initiations,
      > > > whereas they, despite being very devoted to Eckankar and the
      > > > associated disciplines, seem to fall hopelessly behind. Due to
      > > > Eckankar's policy that one not ever request initiations, many
      > > suffer
      > > > in silence, sensing justifiably that something isn't quite right,
      > > yet
      > > > fear to even ask about the possibility of an error. In many cases,
      > > > even when they do ask, they face a stony silence from the org, or
      > > are
      > > > told they are being "tested" spiritually, when all that is needed
      > > is
      > > > a quick check of the record. This is one of the way's such a system
      > > > can inflict undue pain upon its members, and is one reason I am
      > > > taking the time to write about this in detail.
      > > >
      > > > Think about the numbers involved in the initiation approval
      > > process.
      > > > If there are, as claimed, 50,000 members in the org, and each is
      > > > considered for an initiation every five years or so, then that
      > > would
      > > > average 10,000 per year, or 833 per month, or about 40 per day
      > > > (excluding weekends), or about one initiation to be approved every
      > > 10
      > > > to 15 minutes in an average eight hour day. Klemp would have to
      > > work
      > > > full time on initiations every day for the rest of his life to
      > > spend
      > > > 10 to 15 minutes every five years on the "individual" member (do
      > > the
      > > > math and see for yourself). Klemp has said that he checks the inner
      > > > akashic and soul records to make such a choice. Remember that this
      > > > would have to be done to merely consider a person for initiation,
      > > > that is, to give each chela the individual attention and
      > > > consideration that is due, whether or not the chela is actually
      > > > approved for initiation.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp would have to live out of the body most of his life to
      > > > accomplish such a feat. He would have no time for seminars, writing
      > > > his constant supply of books, writing his speeches, eating,
      > > drinking,
      > > > sleeping, going to meetings, running the corporation, etc. For
      > > those
      > > > who argue that such reading of soul records does not take time,
      > > > consider that Klemp has discontinued private requests for
      > > > consultations to do soul readings because, according to him, it
      > > takes
      > > > hours to accomplish an accurate reading of the soul records of just
      > > > one person. Thus, a mere fifteen minutes would not be sufficient to
      > > > approve an initiation, even if he did spend all day, every day of
      > > his
      > > > life approving initiations. Think about this!
      > > >
      > > > From this it can be deduced that Klemp has, for the most part,
      > > > nothing to do with the initiations, other than, perhaps, performing
      > > a
      > > > perfunctory blessing of them in the eckankar offices to fool the
      > > > membership. He simply doesn't have the time.
      > > >
      > > > Remember this key point: It's a fact that someone would have to act
      > > > on the physical plane to approve the initiations and physically
      > > send
      > > > out pink slips. No matter how you slice it, this person (or more
      > > > likely, persons) is not the Living Eck Master, but rather, several
      > > > paid employees.
      > > >
      > > > Some people argue that the true initiations are "inner," and
      > > > therefore the outer initiations are not the true initiations. The
      > > > fallacy in the logic of this argument is that Twitchell originally
      > > > stated that the inner initiation comes before the outer, due to the
      > > > principle of "as above, so below," which means that outer events
      > > > occur on the inner first, manifesting outwardly later. Klemp has
      > > > attempted to confuse people by reversing this, claiming that it
      > > takes
      > > > time to grow into an initiation. But here Klemp contradicts
      > > himself,
      > > > since Klemp has expressly stated in writing that he personally
      > > > approves the outer initiations by reading the inner soul records.
      > > > This means the person receiving the outer initiation would have,
      > > > according to Klemp's own written statements, already have the inner
      > > > preparation, and thus would have received the inner initiation. It
      > > is
      > > > absurd to conclude that Klemp, in taking time to read the soul
      > > > records to approve the outer initiation, would not include as part
      > > of
      > > > that time and effort the giving of the actual inner initiation, if
      > > > after having read the soul records it was determined the chela was
      > > > eligible for the initiation. Thus, the logic that the inner and
      > > outer
      > > > initiations are separate and not inextricably linked is denied in
      > > > statements by Eckankar's only presumed authority, the Living Eck
      > > > Master, Harold Klemp. And the obvious fact is, Klemp would not have
      > > > the requisite time that he has stated is necessary to read so many
      > > > soul records each day of his life. He has been caught up in his own
      > > > contradictory statements and revealed himself to be a fraud.
      > > >
      > > > Thus, the initiations are entirely bogus. They represent nothing
      > > more
      > > > than organizational status. Observe the behavior of the online
      > > > clergy. These are not enlightened beings. They are ordinary people
      > > > caught up in the throes of everyday life, like most people are in
      > > the
      > > > rest of the world.
      > > >
      > > > Kent
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • ctecvie
      I know an ex-eckist who found David Lane and left the teachings silently. He began to translate David Lane s book into German and then the pink slip for his
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 6, 2007
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        I know an ex-eckist who found David Lane and left the teachings
        silently. He began to translate David Lane's book into German and
        then the pink slip for his next initiation arrived.

        Perhaps the all-knowing mahanta thought this accomplishment was worth
        a reward! LOL!

        Ingrid

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > The arbitrary way in which the ECK Initiations come to
        > ECKists proves that there is no inner communication
        > with their Master. There is no equality of consciousness
        > within the same Circle of Initiation! It's not even close!
        > Therefore, how can there be any truth in the words:
        > 'I am always with you.' It's a lie that innocent people
        > have willingly bought into because they want and need
        > to believe in the lie of religion. And, the Eckankar religion
        > may be different and unique and give more answers when
        > compared to most other religions, but that doesn't mean
        > it's all true. Except for the LEM/Mahanta, the Initiations,
        > and the ECK Masters much of what Twitchell "compiled"
        > has some merit for Soul's individual investigation/journey.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > pretujari wrote:
        > > >
        >
        > Hello,
        > This reminds me of two scenerios regarding the initiations. One was
        > to do with a couple. The husband was really perplexed when the pink
        > slip came for him and the wife for their 4th. According to the man,
        > he never understood why his wife also received the 4th because she
        > was quarrellsome, never practiced her spiritual exercises, nor had
        > much time for Eckankar.He told me this when I explained the truth
        > about the eckankar initiations to him.
        > >
        >
        > The other was an elderly woman who was very close to me.
        > She confided in me amidst tears that she had stayed in the
        > 3rd initiation for years. As she cried while narrating this, she
        > wondered why and what she had done, since others who came
        > after her had bypassed her in initiations. Unfortunately, she
        > did not live long enough to know the truth. Am sure all has been
        > made clear to her on the other side.
        > Pretujari.
        >
        > >
        >
        **********************************************************************
        *
        > >
        > Pretujari, this story about the elderly woman demonstrates why
        > eckankar is not a benign cult! It is really sad that she was so
        > tormented about making those initiation levels up until her time
        > of passing! Shame on Klemp and his fraudulent org for sucking
        > the life out of innocent Souls who just want to achieve a sincere
        > connection with God! I feel both sad and angry to think of this
        > woman's sorrow--it's not a good way to live one's life feeling
        passed
        > over like that!
        > >
        > Klemp will ultimately pay for his lies and deceptions! He talks
        about
        > fear so I have to wonder if he doesn't suffer from real fears in
        > knowing that he has been committing these great spiritual crimes?
        > >
        > Eckankar is not harmless in that it does damage Souls.
        > >
        > Mish
        >
        > >
        **********************************************************************
        ****
        > tianyue wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > Ex-Initiator's Guide to Initiations
        > > > >
        > [I've posted an earlier version of this before, and with the
        > discussion of secret words that has been ongoing on another group,
        > I thought this might be a good time to repost this. I've revised
        > this, and added rebuttles to comments Eckists have made to the
        original.-
        > K.A.]
        >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > When I received the sixth initiation, I had essentially
        already
        > > > > decided to leave Eckankar. I was still hanging on out of some
        > > > slight
        > > > > uncertainty, and also had decided to maintain my membership
        due to
        > > > > the fact that my partner, Lisa, still remained loyal to
        Eckankar. A
        > > > > year or two had passed while I was in this state of serious
        doubt
        > > > and
        > > > > skepticism, when the pink slip for the sixth initiation came.
        I was
        > > > > surprised to say the least. Yet I wasn't too surprised. This
        > > > > confirmed what I already suspected: Initiations are not
        overseen or
        > > > > approved by a Mahanta or some omniscient being, but by a
        computer,
        > > > > with the assistance of initiate reports, and recommendations
        by the
        > > > > local Resa and other local High Initiates. I remained in
        Eckankar
        > > > for
        > > > > years after this, until the day my mate felt as I did, and we
        both
        > > > > resigned.
        > > > >
        > > > > Lest there are those in Eckankar who don't yet know this,
        lists are
        > > > > periodically sent out with names generated by a computer to
        the
        > > > state
        > > > > Resa (Regional Eck Spiritual Aid), who confers with local
        High
        > > > > Initiates to either recommend or not, an initiation (Klemp
        himself
        > > > > wrote of the computers producing the initiation lists a while
        back
        > > > as
        > > > > I recall). Around the time I left Eckankar, most Eckists were
        > > > > automatically placed on the list every four or five years or
        so. If
        > > > > for some reason an Eckist was denied, they would usually show
        up
        > > > > again on the next year's list. Local H.I.'s in my area
        (including
        > > > > myself) would routinely talk over the names on the list via
        the
        > > > > telephone, and give their recommendations to the Resa
        according to
        > > > > each chela's loyalty and degree of outer service to the org.
        Those
        > > > > who were especially "troublesome" could be denied the
        initiation.
        > > > The
        > > > > Resa emphasized loyalty as the most important trait. The
        results
        > > > from
        > > > > the Resa are sent back to Minneapolis HQ where assistants
        appointed
        > > > > by Harold approve or deny the initiation based on such things
        as
        > > > the
        > > > > time served as a dues paying member, the Resa
        recommendations, and
        > > > > initiate reports. Some, including myself, have observed that
        > > > initiate
        > > > > reports (especially those which are positive or are written
        in
        > > > praise
        > > > > of the org) definitely can play a role in the initiation
        approval
        > > > > process.
        > > > >
        > > > > Despite this, few people were denied an initiation if they
        were on
        > > > > the list. Eckankar has a very liberal policy toward
        initiations. I
        > > > > noticed that those who followed the disciplines well fared no
        > > > better
        > > > > or worse than those who didn't. I noticed people who smoked,
        drank
        > > > or
        > > > > never did their exercises stood just as great a chance of
        receiving
        > > > > the fifth initiation as anyone <G>. More than anything, the
        > > > > initiations were awarded based on time as a member. The rate
        at
        > > > which
        > > > > initiations were received could be accelerated or delayed
        based on
        > > > > the chelas relationship with local H.I.'s and, especially,
        the
        > > > state
        > > > > Resa, who has a great deal of influence in such matters.
        > > > >
        > > > > And one other thing is clear: Those who do not substantially
        > > > conform
        > > > > to the expectations of the group are the ones most likely to
        be
        > > > > denied an initiation. Despite this, the H.I.'s or Resa's in
        > > > different
        > > > > areas may vary in their tolerance levels, which accounts for
        the
        > > > > stories heard about individuals who never received
        initiations in
        > > > one
        > > > > locale suddenly begin to receive them after moving to another
        area.
        > > > > Also, I've witnessed initiations being approved after three
        or four
        > > > > H.I's gave their unsolicited recommendations to Spiritual
        Services
        > > > on
        > > > > behalf of certain chelas who were thought of as exceptionally
        > > > > deserving.
        > > > >
        > > > > I once had a friend who was extremely devoted to Eckankar,
        who had
        > > > > lived in a remote area during most of her time as a member,
        and
        > > > > didn't realize Eckankar's policy that time served as a dues
        paying
        > > > > member counted toward initiation. As a result, she didn't
        receive
        > > > > initiations for years do to the fact that she kept forgetting
        to
        > > > > renew her membership, thinking such things to be of the
        material
        > > > > worlds! She had no idea such trivialities mattered to the
        > > > omniscient
        > > > > Mahanta! This woman had a life membership (at one time you
        could
        > > > pay
        > > > > a large one time fee, $2,000, for a membership for life) but
        was
        > > > > still required to notify Eckankar of her intent to renew
        annually,
        > > > > though no additional fee was required. She didn't think such
        > > > > formalities were all that important, and as a result, due to
        a less
        > > > > than exemplary membership record, received no initiations
        beyond
        > > > the
        > > > > second, despite years of devotion to Eckankar. One often may
        hear
        > > > > Eckists parroting that such outer initiations matter little,
        yet
        > > > > privately, most Eckists seem to feel very strongly about the
        > > > > initiations they are awarded.
        > > > >
        > > > > This isn't spoken of very much out in the open in Eckankar,
        but
        > > > > people such as the woman in the example can become quite
        > > > > disillusioned and depressed over not keeping up with their
        peers,
        > > > > feeling left behind, unwanted, and forgotten by the Mahanta.
        They
        > > > see
        > > > > others who are seemingly less deserving receiving
        initiations,
        > > > > whereas they, despite being very devoted to Eckankar and the
        > > > > associated disciplines, seem to fall hopelessly behind. Due
        to
        > > > > Eckankar's policy that one not ever request initiations, many
        > > > suffer
        > > > > in silence, sensing justifiably that something isn't quite
        right,
        > > > yet
        > > > > fear to even ask about the possibility of an error. In many
        cases,
        > > > > even when they do ask, they face a stony silence from the
        org, or
        > > > are
        > > > > told they are being "tested" spiritually, when all that is
        needed
        > > > is
        > > > > a quick check of the record. This is one of the way's such a
        system
        > > > > can inflict undue pain upon its members, and is one reason I
        am
        > > > > taking the time to write about this in detail.
        > > > >
        > > > > Think about the numbers involved in the initiation approval
        > > > process.
        > > > > If there are, as claimed, 50,000 members in the org, and each
        is
        > > > > considered for an initiation every five years or so, then
        that
        > > > would
        > > > > average 10,000 per year, or 833 per month, or about 40 per
        day
        > > > > (excluding weekends), or about one initiation to be approved
        every
        > > > 10
        > > > > to 15 minutes in an average eight hour day. Klemp would have
        to
        > > > work
        > > > > full time on initiations every day for the rest of his life
        to
        > > > spend
        > > > > 10 to 15 minutes every five years on the "individual" member
        (do
        > > > the
        > > > > math and see for yourself). Klemp has said that he checks the
        inner
        > > > > akashic and soul records to make such a choice. Remember that
        this
        > > > > would have to be done to merely consider a person for
        initiation,
        > > > > that is, to give each chela the individual attention and
        > > > > consideration that is due, whether or not the chela is
        actually
        > > > > approved for initiation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Klemp would have to live out of the body most of his life to
        > > > > accomplish such a feat. He would have no time for seminars,
        writing
        > > > > his constant supply of books, writing his speeches, eating,
        > > > drinking,
        > > > > sleeping, going to meetings, running the corporation, etc.
        For
        > > > those
        > > > > who argue that such reading of soul records does not take
        time,
        > > > > consider that Klemp has discontinued private requests for
        > > > > consultations to do soul readings because, according to him,
        it
        > > > takes
        > > > > hours to accomplish an accurate reading of the soul records
        of just
        > > > > one person. Thus, a mere fifteen minutes would not be
        sufficient to
        > > > > approve an initiation, even if he did spend all day, every
        day of
        > > > his
        > > > > life approving initiations. Think about this!
        > > > >
        > > > > From this it can be deduced that Klemp has, for the most
        part,
        > > > > nothing to do with the initiations, other than, perhaps,
        performing
        > > > a
        > > > > perfunctory blessing of them in the eckankar offices to fool
        the
        > > > > membership. He simply doesn't have the time.
        > > > >
        > > > > Remember this key point: It's a fact that someone would have
        to act
        > > > > on the physical plane to approve the initiations and
        physically
        > > > send
        > > > > out pink slips. No matter how you slice it, this person (or
        more
        > > > > likely, persons) is not the Living Eck Master, but rather,
        several
        > > > > paid employees.
        > > > >
        > > > > Some people argue that the true initiations are "inner," and
        > > > > therefore the outer initiations are not the true initiations.
        The
        > > > > fallacy in the logic of this argument is that Twitchell
        originally
        > > > > stated that the inner initiation comes before the outer, due
        to the
        > > > > principle of "as above, so below," which means that outer
        events
        > > > > occur on the inner first, manifesting outwardly later. Klemp
        has
        > > > > attempted to confuse people by reversing this, claiming that
        it
        > > > takes
        > > > > time to grow into an initiation. But here Klemp contradicts
        > > > himself,
        > > > > since Klemp has expressly stated in writing that he
        personally
        > > > > approves the outer initiations by reading the inner soul
        records.
        > > > > This means the person receiving the outer initiation would
        have,
        > > > > according to Klemp's own written statements, already have the
        inner
        > > > > preparation, and thus would have received the inner
        initiation. It
        > > > is
        > > > > absurd to conclude that Klemp, in taking time to read the
        soul
        > > > > records to approve the outer initiation, would not include as
        part
        > > > of
        > > > > that time and effort the giving of the actual inner
        initiation, if
        > > > > after having read the soul records it was determined the
        chela was
        > > > > eligible for the initiation. Thus, the logic that the inner
        and
        > > > outer
        > > > > initiations are separate and not inextricably linked is
        denied in
        > > > > statements by Eckankar's only presumed authority, the Living
        Eck
        > > > > Master, Harold Klemp. And the obvious fact is, Klemp would
        not have
        > > > > the requisite time that he has stated is necessary to read so
        many
        > > > > soul records each day of his life. He has been caught up in
        his own
        > > > > contradictory statements and revealed himself to be a fraud.
        > > > >
        > > > > Thus, the initiations are entirely bogus. They represent
        nothing
        > > > more
        > > > > than organizational status. Observe the behavior of the
        online
        > > > > clergy. These are not enlightened beings. They are ordinary
        people
        > > > > caught up in the throes of everyday life, like most people
        are in
        > > > the
        > > > > rest of the world.
        > > > >
        > > > > Kent
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Ingrid, The ECK Initiations along with all of the other inner teachings and dogma of ECKANKAR are just PRETEND! Klemp has stated: Acting AS IF is a
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 7, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Ingrid,
          The ECK Initiations along with all of the other "inner"
          teachings and dogma of ECKANKAR are just PRETEND!
          Klemp has stated: "Acting 'AS IF' is a principle of ECK.
          You establish a goal, then ACT AS IF the WISH is fulfilled
          and the DREAM completed. In this way you CREATE your
          OWN world." H.K. The Dream Master, pg. 81 [My caps]

          It's no wonder that these gullible and spiritually immature
          ECKists continue to accept an authority figure over them.
          At the same time they fear taking on responsibility for their
          own thoughts, words. feelings, actions, and reactions. They
          need a fake Mahanta because they are weak and immature
          Souls.

          Prometheus

          ctecvie wrote:
          >
          I know an ex-eckist who found David Lane and left the teachings
          silently. He began to translate David Lane's book into German and
          then the pink slip for his next initiation arrived.
          >
          Perhaps the all-knowing mahanta thought this accomplishment
          was worth a reward! LOL!
          >
          Ingrid
          >
          prometheus wrote:
          > >
          The arbitrary way in which the ECK Initiations come to
          ECKists proves that there is no inner communication
          with their Master. There is no equality of consciousness
          within the same Circle of Initiation! It's not even close!
          Therefore, how can there be any truth in the words:
          'I am always with you.' It's a lie that innocent people
          have willingly bought into because they want and need
          to believe in the lie of religion. And, the Eckankar religion
          may be different and unique and give more answers when
          compared to most other religions, but that doesn't mean
          it's all true. Except for the LEM/Mahanta, the Initiations,
          and the ECK Masters much of what Twitchell "compiled"
          has some merit for Soul's individual investigation/journey.
          > >
          Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          pretujari wrote:
          > > > >
          > >
          Hello,
          This reminds me of two scenerios regarding the initiations. One was
          to do with a couple. The husband was really perplexed when the pink
          slip came for him and the wife for their 4th. According to the man,
          he never understood why his wife also received the 4th because she
          was quarrellsome, never practiced her spiritual exercises, nor had
          much time for Eckankar.He told me this when I explained the truth
          about the eckankar initiations to him.
          > > >
          The other was an elderly woman who was very close to me.
          She confided in me amidst tears that she had stayed in the
          3rd initiation for years. As she cried while narrating this, she
          wondered why and what she had done, since others who came
          after her had bypassed her in initiations. Unfortunately, she
          did not live long enough to know the truth. Am sure all has been
          made clear to her on the other side.
          Pretujari.
          **********************************************************************

          > > >
          Pretujari, this story about the elderly woman demonstrates why
          eckankar is not a benign cult! It is really sad that she was so
          tormented about making those initiation levels up until her time
          of passing! Shame on Klemp and his fraudulent org for sucking
          the life out of innocent Souls who just want to achieve a sincere
          connection with God! I feel both sad and angry to think of this
          woman's sorrow--it's not a good way to live one's life feeling
          passed over like that!
          > > >
          Klemp will ultimately pay for his lies and deceptions! He talks
          about fear so I have to wonder if he doesn't suffer from real fears
          in knowing that he has been committing these great spiritual
          crimes?
          > > >
          Eckankar is not harmless in that it does damage Souls.
          > > >
          Mish


          **************************************************************

          tianyue wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          Ex-Initiator's Guide to Initiations
          > > > > >
          [I've posted an earlier version of this before, and with the
          discussion of secret words that has been ongoing on another group,
          I thought this might be a good time to repost this. I've revised
          this, and added rebuttles to comments Eckists have made to the
          original.-
          K.A.]
          > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          When I received the sixth initiation, I had essentially
          already decided to leave Eckankar. I was still hanging on out
          of some slight uncertainty, and also had decided to maintain
          my membership due to the fact that my partner, Lisa, still
          remained loyal to Eckankar. A year or two had passed while
          I was in this state of serious doubt and skepticism, when the
          pink slip for the sixth initiation came. I was surprised to say
          the least. Yet I wasn't too surprised. This confirmed what I
          already suspected: Initiations are not overseen or approved
          by a Mahanta or some omniscient being, but by a computer,
          with the assistance of initiate reports, and recommendations
          by the local Resa and other local High Initiates. I remained in
          Eckankar for years after this, until the day my mate felt as I did,
          and we both resigned.

          Lest there are those in Eckankar who don't yet know this,
          lists are periodically sent out with names generated by a
          computer to the state Resa (Regional Eck Spiritual Aid),
          who confers with local High Initiates to either recommend
          or not, an initiation (Klemp himself wrote of the computers
          producing the initiation lists a while back as I recall).
          [snip]
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