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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Ignore the Problems in Life!

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  • ewickings
    This is a classic sign of someone that is mentally ill. Too bad people listen to this Bull Shit and stuff their emotions and ignore their problems. Wonder if
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
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      This is a classic sign of someone that is mentally ill.  Too bad people listen to this Bull Shit and stuff their emotions and ignore their problems.  Wonder if Klump also suggest taking all their problems on the inner, which would require SLEEPING....  Another form or sign of depression!
       
      " I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this stuff. "
       
      Hmmmm  sort of like "If you don't mind, it won't matter."  or how about that Christian way of doing things,   "Turn the other cheek."
       
      So if someone rapes or violates one of your loved ones,  Klump would suggest "show them the way of divine love?"
       
      What a Fricken loser!  No wonder eckies are so F'd up..... you can not live in a cave, take it on the inner,  ignore your problems or emotions and hope that the fake LEM / Mahanta is going to fix your problems.
       
      If none of the above works,  Klump won't take responsibility either, he will blame it on the chela, or their karma!
       
      Love does not fix everything, though it can keep a family strong and together!
       
      I wonder if Klump still has his booboo snuggle blankie, and sucks his thumb?  ;-)
       
      Liz     
       
        
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: 2/4/2007 1:26:57 AM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Ignore the Problems in Life!
       
      "There might be a hundred dif-
      ferent problems in the person's
      life. Instead of wondering which
      one to tackle first, I ignore the
      problems. I try to show them
      the way of divine love. Love
      cuts through all this stuff."
       
      by Harold Klemp:
      The Drumbeat of Time,
      Mahanta Transcripts,
      Book 10, page 222
       
      HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
      the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
      to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
      that?
       
      I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
      Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
      He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
      people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
      ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
      no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
      HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
       
      Mish
    • prometheus_973
      Hi All, I d like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid Klemp quote. Since we don t know the entire context of the quote it must be assumed
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
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        Hi All,
        I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
        Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
        it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
        what value and meaning it has for us.

        "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
        Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
        I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
        stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]

        For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
        problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
        in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
        if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
        Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
        world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
        Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
        talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
        than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
        and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
        too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
        doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
        much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
        alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
        and loving family relationships either! One must know something
        about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
        of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
        form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
        love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
        higher awareness.

        I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
        show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
        comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
        demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!

        "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
        and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
        all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
        and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
        you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
        and Healing by Harold Klemp]

        Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
        Union" address. Both men have a lot in common!

        Prometheus





        Non ekster wrote:
        >
        This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
        Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
        reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
        work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
        advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
        membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
        advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
        deceiver, Klemp.
        >
        Noneckster
        >
        mishmisha wrote:
        > >
        "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
        life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
        problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
        through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
        Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
        > >
        HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
        to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
        How nutty is that?
        > >
        I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
        In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
        job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
        problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
        talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
        HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
        > >
        Mish
      • leecroth
        ... Each to his own, I guess...here s a reply to the friend that sent me your post: ) something you are dealing with? chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
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          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > "There might be a hundred dif-
          > ferent problems in the person's
          > life. Instead of wondering which
          > one to tackle first, I ignore the
          > problems. I try to show them
          > the way of divine love. Love
          > cuts through all this stuff."
          >
          > by Harold Klemp:
          > The Drumbeat of Time,
          > Mahanta Transcripts,
          > Book 10, page 222
          >
          > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
          > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
          > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
          > that?
          >
          > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
          > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
          > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
          > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
          > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
          > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
          > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
          >
          > Mish
          >

          Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
          your post:>)



          something you are dealing with?

          chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
          exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
          of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
          the problem times.

          My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
          much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
          body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
          urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.

          am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
          aches & mucous problems within by doing so.

          Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
          gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
          the body.

          So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
          of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
          favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
          it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
          pain wins again:>)


          Ciao
        • ctecvie
          ... *** What s that? You here to bring us back to eckankar! Forget it! LOL! ... *** Know what? My body knows, too, what it wants - and I know it as well! No
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "leecroth"
            <leecroth@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
            > >
            > > "There might be a hundred dif-
            > > ferent problems in the person's
            > > life. Instead of wondering which
            > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
            > > problems. I try to show them
            > > the way of divine love. Love
            > > cuts through all this stuff."
            > >
            > > by Harold Klemp:
            > > The Drumbeat of Time,
            > > Mahanta Transcripts,
            > > Book 10, page 222
            > >
            > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
            > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
            > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
            > > that?
            > >
            > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
            > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
            > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
            > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
            > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
            > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
            > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            >
            > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent
            >me
            > your post:>)
            >
            >
            >
            > something you are dealing with?
            >
            > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's
            >spiritual
            > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
            > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
            > the problem times.

            *** What's that? You here to bring us back to eckankar! Forget it!
            LOL!
            >
            > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
            > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what
            >my
            > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
            > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.

            *** Know what? My body knows, too, what it wants - and I know it as
            well! No miracles here, you just have to listen to your body. And if
            you don't, be aware of it at least.
            >
            > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
            > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.

            *** Great, good that you found the right method for yourself! But I
            can tell you, you don't need the mahanta for that - just go to a good
            doctor or nutritionist, or read websites about that!
            >
            > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
            > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons
            >to
            > the body.
            >
            > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating
            >lots
            > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
            > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
            > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
            > pain wins again:>)

            *** Well you know, your body just knew why it was so sick, and of
            course by listening to your mahanta, you dreamt about it. No
            surprises here either - that's just a conditioning!

            Ingrid
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Leecroth, Glad you found ESA. If you haven t already please read the ARCHIVES and check out the LINKS. I d like to now respond to your post. Either
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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              Hello Leecroth,
              Glad you found ESA. If you haven't already
              please read the ARCHIVES and check out the
              LINKS. I'd like to now respond to your post.

              Either you're missing my point or I'm missing
              yours. Klemp contradicts himself as he plays
              to his audience. HK has also said to eat sugar
              while you can... to enjoy the experience. As far
              as the sugar and white flour comment... is that
              supposed to be a profound spiritual message?
              Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta, simply states the
              obvious and what almost everyone else already
              knows!

              This seems to be the case with all of HK's quotes
              I see posted on HU-Chat. However, HK is now,
              basically, saying to just ignore white flour and
              sugar and things that could cause "problems"
              like what to eat! Just ignore disease and Chant
              HU to garner divine love.

              The Mahanta will see that your karma is taken
              care of, or that you are moved to the head of the
              line when you do croak!

              Have any deceased H.I.s ever returned in dreams,
              etc. to let ECKists know as to whether their grand
              Inner Master's promises have been kept or what
              their Mahanta's mission is now for them? Why not?
              These are the "ECK Masters" that should be visiting
              ECKists!

              If Joan can appear in dreams then why not those
              H.I.s who have translated? Why no stories of
              departed H.I.s appearing and giving advice or proving
              Paul's B.S.? Actually, Soul will mock-up whatever
              or whomever and this is what Twit already knew.
              That's what helps to give "proof" of ECK Masters.
              The immature Soul needs this proof to accept its
              existance before it is able to go beyond the limitations
              created by their own minds and Self doubts. The
              individual Soul needs to accept and recognize their
              own divine Self and Mastership. The ECKANKAR
              teachings prolong and prevent this from happening
              and act as a KAL distraction/test by holding Souls
              via a fake hierarchy with fake initiations and a fake
              Master-in-charge. They are truly hens in a 'henhouse!'

              Here's a comment from the original Mahanta P.T.:
              "You see Maya is actually the dreamworld in which you
              live in that dual viewpoint which sees good and bad.
              Therefore what is called sin is but an illusion..."
              [Letters to Gail, pg. 18]

              Prometheus

              leecroth wrote:
              >
              mishmisha wrote:
              > >
              "There might be a hundred different problems
              in the person's life. Instead of wondering which
              one to tackle first, I ignore the problems. I try to
              show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through
              all this stuff."

              by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
              Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
              > >
              HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
              the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
              to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
              that?
              > >
              I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
              Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
              He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
              people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
              ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
              no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
              HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!

              Mish
              > >
              >
              Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
              your post:>)
              >
              something you are dealing with?
              >
              chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
              exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
              of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
              the problem times.
              >
              My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
              much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
              body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
              urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
              >
              am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
              aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
              >
              Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
              gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
              the body.
              >
              So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
              of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
              favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
              it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
              pain wins again:>)
              >
              >
              Ciao
            • mishmisha9
              ... mishmisha9 ... Hi, Ciao! I agree that sitting quietly and contemplating can help one to find answers to problems but this is something any of us can do
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                "leecroth" <leecroth@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                "mishmisha9"
                > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                > >
                > > "There might be a hundred dif-
                > > ferent problems in the person's
                > > life. Instead of wondering which
                > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
                > > problems. I try to show them
                > > the way of divine love. Love
                > > cuts through all this stuff."
                > >
                > > by Harold Klemp:
                > > The Drumbeat of Time,
                > > Mahanta Transcripts,
                > > Book 10, page 222
                > >
                > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
                > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
                > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
                > > that?
                > >
                > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
                > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
                > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
                > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
                > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
                > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                >
                > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
                > your post:>)
                >
                >
                >
                > something you are dealing with?
                >
                > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
                > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
                > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
                > the problem times.
                >
                > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
                > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
                > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
                > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
                >
                > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
                > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
                >
                > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
                > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
                > the body.
                >
                > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
                > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
                > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
                > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
                > pain wins again:>)
                >
                >
                > Ciao
                >

                Hi, Ciao!

                I agree that sitting quietly and contemplating can help one to find
                answers to problems but this is something any of us can do without
                the assistance or reliance on a fake mahanta/geeky individual like
                Harold Klemp.

                Klemp does not offer anything new or profound. Very often it is just
                mundane stuff that he has found sifting through the media sources--
                probably on the Internet like the rest of us. Yeah, I don't believe
                that he suffers from emr disease--that was more of a feeble attempt
                to keep chelas off the Internet and less exposed to the groups that
                continue to actively debunk eckankar.

                Even though pancakes and maple syrup are yummy, we all know they
                are not healthy foods, as well as the white flour and sugar--none of
                that is enlightening, either from you or Harold Klemp. It's all a part of
                education--not religiously based info! Frankly, just looking at Klemp
                in the physical, he doesn't look like a healthy specimen, does he? Why
                listen to his advice on health and diet?

                As to what you do, yes, I agree to each his own, but I am fascinated by
                your bathroom ritual of constantly testing for your ph balance.I've heard
                of eckists and other new agers doing this, so I do know that it is practiced
                by others! : )

                If I've misunderstood you, you're welcome to clarify. I just find
                surrendering one's problems to the mahanta is very misguided, often
                confusing and delaying a seeker from taking care of even the simplest
                of problems that we all come to face in our daily lives.

                Anyway, welcome to ESA. Thank you for your post.

                Mish
              • tomleafeater
                Hi Lee, Does your e-mail address mean Lee C. Roth? If so, I may have met you. Did you know eckists from Tucson? Anyway, we ve all felt as you do, once upon a
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
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                  Hi Lee,

                  Does your e-mail address mean Lee C. Roth? If so, I may have
                  met you. Did you know eckists from Tucson?

                  Anyway, we've all felt as you do, once upon a time, long ago. I still
                  have a couple of boxes full of eck material. When I go through
                  the box to see what's in there after all these years, I can
                  understand better why I was so duped as an eckist, especially
                  back in the early years with Paul Twitchell, and actually, when I
                  look at the early 'eck world news' and other writings, eckankar
                  was clearly much more creative, artistic and fun in those days.
                  No offense, but I've come to the firm conclusion that though Paul
                  was the original flim flam man--the plagiarizing con man who
                  started it all--Klemp has devolved eckankar to even new lows.
                  Klemp isn't even fun, and damn, that's not good at all. Spirituality
                  should be fun, at least once in a while. Klemp is a real drag and
                  a downer, with all his moralistic sermonizing.

                  That aside, you mentioned a few things I'd like to comment on.
                  Did you know that the basic soul travel exercises are widely
                  known in many yogic groups throughout India? Not only do the
                  known Light and Sound groups from India use them, but I've
                  encountered them in a wide variety of other yogic groups. The
                  concept of light and sound is widely taught in India. You see,
                  these exercises have been around a long time, and are passed
                  down by various groups, and shared by many people over time.
                  They aren't secrets. The only difference is the semantics. Some
                  call it soul travel, some call it self actualization. Its the same
                  thing. Some call it meditation, some call it contemplation. Its still
                  the same thing. Identical!

                  And of course, there are possible benefits from practicing the
                  techniques, so it isn't surprising they have helped you. But this
                  doesn't mean Klemp is the highest teacher and you're on the
                  one and only path to omniscience. Most High Initiates, including
                  klemp, are really as ordinary as anyone, despite the effort they go
                  through to appear so aware.

                  As to the supposed health secrets, these ideas of Klemp's are
                  also widely known. He has found them by his own reading of the
                  literature. I have years of extensive training in traditional Chinese
                  medicine, which includes not only acupuncture, but nutrition,
                  food therapy, extensive herbal training, and also a diagnostic
                  system that takes years and years to master, as well as Western
                  biomedical training that is part of the program of study. I treat
                  people with a wide variety of health problems, including internal
                  medical problems, gynecological complaints, and even difficult
                  diseases such as cancer. I usually work with people who are
                  also being treated by Western doctors.

                  Klemp has benefited from acupuncture, according to his
                  anecdotes in one of his books. He would have learned some
                  things from the chinese doctor who treated him.

                  The point is, the ideas he speaks of are not new, but very old in
                  some cases. Sugar and starchy carbohydrates do cause
                  problems when over-indulged in, a fact that has been known by
                  the ancient Chinese, who were very observant of the effects of
                  food and diet. There is a good reason--both from the ancient as
                  well as the modern perspective--why such foods cause 'mucous'
                  buildup and inflammation, resulting in aches and pains.

                  I could direct you to several modern books on nutrition that not
                  only discuss the concepts you mentioned, but several more of
                  worthy note. This information is commonly available.

                  Thinking back to Klemp's nutritional pronouncements, his ideas
                  were quite rudimentary. He's touching on basics, and in some
                  areas he is misleading people, in my opinion. Hulda Clark's
                  ideas are questionable, for example.

                  I did agree with his changing eckankar policy regarding the
                  weekly fast, which he removed as a strict discipline. He was
                  correct in doing that., given the prevalent insulin resistance that
                  is occurring with most Americans in our age.

                  But he is not a qualified health professional, and there is much
                  more that may be helpful than falls within his scope of
                  knowledge. Its wonderful you were helped, but it wasn't inner
                  wisdom that Klemp offered, but information that is widely
                  circulating if one knows where to look. Klemp's own health
                  problems with environmental illness (very likely resulting from
                  his own previous dietary habits, including his heavy drinking at
                  one time, in my opinion) have surely been a catalyst for Klemp's
                  OWN search for solutions, which have led him to visit various
                  health practitioners, all paid by eckankar, of course. He in turn
                  has passed on the information gleaned from others to you.

                  By the way, Paul T's herb book is much out of date, and there are
                  numerous errors in the book.

                  Kent






                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "leecroth" <leecroth@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "mishmisha9"
                  > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > "There might be a hundred dif-
                  > > ferent problems in the person's
                  > > life. Instead of wondering which
                  > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
                  > > problems. I try to show them
                  > > the way of divine love. Love
                  > > cuts through all this stuff."
                  > >
                  > > by Harold Klemp:
                  > > The Drumbeat of Time,
                  > > Mahanta Transcripts,
                  > > Book 10, page 222
                  > >
                  > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
                  > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
                  > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
                  > > that?
                  > >
                  > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
                  > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
                  > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
                  > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
                  > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
                  > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                  > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                  > >
                  > > Mish
                  > >
                  >
                  > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent
                  me
                  > your post:>)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > something you are dealing with?
                  >
                  > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's
                  spiritual
                  > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the
                  myriad
                  > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience
                  most of
                  > the problem times.
                  >
                  > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products,
                  too
                  > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what
                  my
                  > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
                  > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
                  >
                  > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
                  > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
                  >
                  > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a
                  small
                  > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons
                  to
                  > the body.
                  >
                  > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating
                  lots
                  > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my
                  absolute
                  > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
                  > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
                  > pain wins again:>)
                  >
                  >
                  > Ciao
                  >
                • etznab@aol.com
                  I took a client shopping at a bread store the other day. There must have been three to five different flavors of maple syrup on the shelf. I read the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                       I took a client shopping at a bread store the other day.
                    There must have been three to five different flavors of
                    maple syrup on the shelf. I read the ingredients. Not one
                    bottle [labeled as maple syrup] contained any maple syrup
                    at all! What they did contain were high fructose corn syrup
                    and artificial flavors, etc.

                       Maple syrup is loaded with natural minerals and a
                    safer form of sugar than the processed kind. The mineral
                    content [in part] comes from the fact that trees have very
                    long roots that can tap the mineral stores deep down in
                    the earth. Maple syrup is also one of the ingredients in
                    the "Master Cleanse" drink [consisting of lemon juice,
                    maple syrup, and cayenne pepper]. Lemon juice comes
                    from a tree as well. Cayenne pepper [among other things]
                    is good for ridding the body of excess mucus or phlegm.

                       Not all "maple syrup" is the same - especially when
                    the majority of brands sold today have little or none at
                    all.

                       As for sugar, there are several different forms of it
                    too.

                    Etznab
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hi All, I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to come in touch with my higher Self. This
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi All,
                      I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                      chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                      come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                      opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                      especially, when a question or more specific information
                      is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                      how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                      that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.

                      ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                      on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                      attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                      all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                      Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                      and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                      relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                      ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                      bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."

                      However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                      Chant, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof that the ECK
                      Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves that the promise
                      of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is a lie too!

                      Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                      are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                      know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                      Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!

                      When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                      of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                      this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                      Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                      abilities on the INNER is a lie too!

                      So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                      in determining our individual and group reality and
                      consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                      course, or problems (imbalance) arise.

                      Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                      beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                      from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                      therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                      and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                      own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                      religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                      'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                      (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                      higher values required of them.

                      Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                      where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                      with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                      Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                      people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                      who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                      have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                      8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                      about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!

                      However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                      learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                      required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                      Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                      for Soul?

                      Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                      of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                      growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                      is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                      again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                      teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                      like Rich and Cheryl!

                      Prometheus



                      prometheus wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi All,
                      > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                      > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                      > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                      > what value and meaning it has for us.
                      >
                      > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                      > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                      > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                      > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                      >
                      > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                      > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                      > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                      > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                      > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                      > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                      > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                      > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                      > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                      > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                      > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                      > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                      > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                      > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                      > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                      > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                      > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                      > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                      > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                      > higher awareness.
                      >
                      > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                      > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                      > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                      > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                      >
                      > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                      > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                      > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                      > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                      > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                      > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                      >
                      > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                      > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                      > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Non ekster wrote:
                      > >
                      > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                      > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                      > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                      > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                      > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                      > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                      > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                      > deceiver, Klemp.
                      > >
                      > Noneckster
                      > >
                      > mishmisha wrote:
                      > > >
                      > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                      > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                      > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                      > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                      > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                      > > >
                      > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                      > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                      > How nutty is that?
                      > > >
                      > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                      > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                      > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                      > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                      > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                      > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                      > > >
                      > Mish
                      >
                    • mishmisha9
                      Here s Rich s (Cyber-Sailor s) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.: the vision is sometimes muddied by those
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 12, 2007
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                        Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
                        in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:

                        "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
                        form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
                        and a cynical limited view."

                        It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
                        so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
                        Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
                        to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
                        Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )

                        The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
                        accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
                        and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
                        growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
                        Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
                        state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???

                        Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
                        before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
                        religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
                        a critical thinker.

                        Mish

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi All,
                        > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                        > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                        > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                        > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                        > especially, when a question or more specific information
                        > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                        > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                        > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
                        >
                        > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                        > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                        > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                        > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                        > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                        > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                        > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                        > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                        > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
                        >
                        > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                        > Chant, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof that the ECK
                        > Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves that the promise
                        > of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is a lie too!
                        >
                        > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                        > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                        > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                        > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
                        >
                        > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                        > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                        > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                        > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                        > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
                        >
                        > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                        > in determining our individual and group reality and
                        > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                        > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
                        >
                        > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                        > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                        > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                        > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                        > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                        > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                        > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                        > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                        > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                        > higher values required of them.
                        >
                        > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                        > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                        > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                        > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                        > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                        > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                        > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                        > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                        > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
                        >
                        > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                        > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                        > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                        > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                        > for Soul?
                        >
                        > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                        > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                        > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                        > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                        > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                        > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                        > like Rich and Cheryl!
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi All,
                        > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                        > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                        > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                        > > what value and meaning it has for us.
                        > >
                        > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                        > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                        > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                        > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                        > >
                        > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                        > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                        > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                        > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                        > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                        > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                        > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                        > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                        > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                        > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                        > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                        > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                        > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                        > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                        > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                        > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                        > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                        > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                        > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                        > > higher awareness.
                        > >
                        > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                        > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                        > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                        > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                        > >
                        > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                        > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                        > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                        > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                        > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                        > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                        > >
                        > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                        > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                        > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Non ekster wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                        > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                        > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                        > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                        > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                        > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                        > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                        > > deceiver, Klemp.
                        > > >
                        > > Noneckster
                        > > >
                        > > mishmisha wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                        > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                        > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                        > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                        > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                        > > > >
                        > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                        > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                        > > How nutty is that?
                        > > > >
                        > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                        > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                        > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                        > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                        > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                        > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                        > > > >
                        > > Mish
                        > >
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hi Mish, I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean, nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT. Klemp just can t control her can he!
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 12, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Mish,
                          I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean,
                          nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT.
                          Klemp just can't control her can he! You'd think that
                          someone at the ESC would be in charge. Yes, it seems
                          Klemp's talk about doing something about those H.I.
                          Foxes outside of the ECKANKAR Henhouse must be
                          more cheap talk! That's one of the "problems" Klemp
                          has always had... Not implementing, especially in a timely
                          manner, and Not following-thru.

                          Maybe HK's comments from the 12/2006 H.I. Letter will be
                          studied, and discussed (for awhile longer). Some suggestions
                          will probably be mailed to RESAs and RESA Services. I'm sure
                          that this H.I. Fox problem Will Not take the usual Five Years
                          to be resolved. Instead, my prediction is that this H.I.
                          KAL-ECK 'FOX' situation will continue to be ignored but
                          Not forgotten as long as KAL-ECK Vahanas Rich and Cheryl
                          are posting.

                          Prometheus

                          mishmisha wrote:
                          >
                          > Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
                          > in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:
                          >
                          > "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
                          > form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
                          > and a cynical limited view."
                          >
                          > It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
                          > so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
                          > Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
                          > to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
                          > Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )
                          >
                          > The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
                          > accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
                          > and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
                          > growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
                          > Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
                          > state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???
                          >
                          > Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
                          > before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
                          > religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
                          > a critical thinker.
                          >
                          > Mish
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                          > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hi All,
                          > > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                          > > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                          > > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                          > > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                          > > especially, when a question or more specific information
                          > > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                          > > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                          > > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
                          > >
                          > > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                          > > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                          > > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                          > > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                          > > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                          > > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                          > > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                          > > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                          > > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
                          > >
                          > > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                          > > Chant, Chela-Chat, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof
                          >> that the ECK Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves
                          >> that the promise of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is
                          >> a lie too!
                          > >
                          > > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                          > > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                          > > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                          > > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
                          > >
                          > > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                          > > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                          > > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                          > > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                          > > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
                          > >
                          > > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                          > > in determining our individual and group reality and
                          > > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                          > > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
                          > >
                          > > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                          > > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                          > > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                          > > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                          > > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                          > > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                          > > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                          > > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                          > > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                          > > higher values required of them.
                          > >
                          > > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                          > > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                          > > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                          > > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                          > > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                          > > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                          > > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                          > > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                          > > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
                          > >
                          > > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                          > > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                          > > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                          > > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                          > > for Soul?
                          > >
                          > > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                          > > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                          > > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                          > > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                          > > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                          > > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                          > > like Rich and Cheryl!
                          > >
                          > > Prometheus
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > prometheus wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi All,
                          > > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                          > > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                          > > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                          > > > what value and meaning it has for us.
                          > > >
                          > > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                          > > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                          > > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                          > > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                          > > >
                          > > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                          > > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                          > > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                          > > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                          > > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                          > > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                          > > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                          > > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                          > > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                          > > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                          > > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                          > > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                          > > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                          > > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                          > > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                          > > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                          > > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                          > > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                          > > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                          > > > higher awareness.
                          > > >
                          > > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                          > > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                          > > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                          > > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                          > > >
                          > > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                          > > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                          > > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                          > > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                          > > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                          > > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                          > > >
                          > > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                          > > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                          > > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                          > > >
                          > > > Prometheus
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Non ekster wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                          > > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                          > > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                          > > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                          > > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                          > > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                          > > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                          > > > deceiver, Klemp.
                          > > > >
                          > > > Noneckster
                          > > > >
                          > > > mishmisha wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                          > > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                          > > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                          > > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                          > > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                          > > > > >
                          > > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                          > > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                          > > > How nutty is that?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                          > > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                          > > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                          > > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                          > > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                          > > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                          > > > > >
                          > > > Mish
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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