Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Ignore the Problems in Life!

Expand Messages
  • mishmisha9
    There might be a hundred dif- ferent problems in the person s life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems. I try to show them
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      "There might be a hundred dif-
      ferent problems in the person's
      life. Instead of wondering which
      one to tackle first, I ignore the
      problems. I try to show them
      the way of divine love. Love
      cuts through all this stuff."

      by Harold Klemp:
      The Drumbeat of Time,
      Mahanta Transcripts,
      Book 10, page 222

      HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
      the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
      to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
      that?

      I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
      Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
      He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
      people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
      ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
      no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
      HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!

      Mish
    • Non ekster
      This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies. Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when reality kicks you in the
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
        Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
        reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
        work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
        advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
        membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
        advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
        deceiver, Klemp.

        Noneckster

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
        >
        > "There might be a hundred dif-
        > ferent problems in the person's
        > life. Instead of wondering which
        > one to tackle first, I ignore the
        > problems. I try to show them
        > the way of divine love. Love
        > cuts through all this stuff."
        >
        > by Harold Klemp:
        > The Drumbeat of Time,
        > Mahanta Transcripts,
        > Book 10, page 222
        >
        > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
        > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
        > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
        > that?
        >
        > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
        > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
        > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
        > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
        > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
        > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
        > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
        >
        > Mish
        >
      • ewickings
        This is a classic sign of someone that is mentally ill. Too bad people listen to this Bull Shit and stuff their emotions and ignore their problems. Wonder if
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          This is a classic sign of someone that is mentally ill.  Too bad people listen to this Bull Shit and stuff their emotions and ignore their problems.  Wonder if Klump also suggest taking all their problems on the inner, which would require SLEEPING....  Another form or sign of depression!
           
          " I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this stuff. "
           
          Hmmmm  sort of like "If you don't mind, it won't matter."  or how about that Christian way of doing things,   "Turn the other cheek."
           
          So if someone rapes or violates one of your loved ones,  Klump would suggest "show them the way of divine love?"
           
          What a Fricken loser!  No wonder eckies are so F'd up..... you can not live in a cave, take it on the inner,  ignore your problems or emotions and hope that the fake LEM / Mahanta is going to fix your problems.
           
          If none of the above works,  Klump won't take responsibility either, he will blame it on the chela, or their karma!
           
          Love does not fix everything, though it can keep a family strong and together!
           
          I wonder if Klump still has his booboo snuggle blankie, and sucks his thumb?  ;-)
           
          Liz     
           
            
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 2/4/2007 1:26:57 AM
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Ignore the Problems in Life!
           
          "There might be a hundred dif-
          ferent problems in the person's
          life. Instead of wondering which
          one to tackle first, I ignore the
          problems. I try to show them
          the way of divine love. Love
          cuts through all this stuff."
           
          by Harold Klemp:
          The Drumbeat of Time,
          Mahanta Transcripts,
          Book 10, page 222
           
          HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
          the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
          to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
          that?
           
          I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
          Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
          He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
          people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
          ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
          no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
          HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
           
          Mish
        • prometheus_973
          Hi All, I d like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid Klemp quote. Since we don t know the entire context of the quote it must be assumed
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi All,
            I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
            Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
            it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
            what value and meaning it has for us.

            "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
            Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
            I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
            stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]

            For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
            problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
            in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
            if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
            Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
            world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
            Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
            talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
            than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
            and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
            too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
            doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
            much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
            alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
            and loving family relationships either! One must know something
            about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
            of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
            form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
            love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
            higher awareness.

            I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
            show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
            comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
            demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!

            "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
            and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
            all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
            and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
            you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
            and Healing by Harold Klemp]

            Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
            Union" address. Both men have a lot in common!

            Prometheus





            Non ekster wrote:
            >
            This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
            Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
            reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
            work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
            advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
            membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
            advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
            deceiver, Klemp.
            >
            Noneckster
            >
            mishmisha wrote:
            > >
            "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
            life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
            problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
            through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
            Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
            > >
            HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
            to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
            How nutty is that?
            > >
            I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
            In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
            job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
            problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
            talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
            HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
            > >
            Mish
          • leecroth
            ... Each to his own, I guess...here s a reply to the friend that sent me your post: ) something you are dealing with? chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
              >
              > "There might be a hundred dif-
              > ferent problems in the person's
              > life. Instead of wondering which
              > one to tackle first, I ignore the
              > problems. I try to show them
              > the way of divine love. Love
              > cuts through all this stuff."
              >
              > by Harold Klemp:
              > The Drumbeat of Time,
              > Mahanta Transcripts,
              > Book 10, page 222
              >
              > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
              > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
              > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
              > that?
              >
              > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
              > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
              > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
              > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
              > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
              > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
              > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
              >
              > Mish
              >

              Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
              your post:>)



              something you are dealing with?

              chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
              exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
              of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
              the problem times.

              My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
              much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
              body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
              urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.

              am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
              aches & mucous problems within by doing so.

              Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
              gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
              the body.

              So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
              of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
              favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
              it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
              pain wins again:>)


              Ciao
            • ctecvie
              ... *** What s that? You here to bring us back to eckankar! Forget it! LOL! ... *** Know what? My body knows, too, what it wants - and I know it as well! No
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "leecroth"
                <leecroth@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                > >
                > > "There might be a hundred dif-
                > > ferent problems in the person's
                > > life. Instead of wondering which
                > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
                > > problems. I try to show them
                > > the way of divine love. Love
                > > cuts through all this stuff."
                > >
                > > by Harold Klemp:
                > > The Drumbeat of Time,
                > > Mahanta Transcripts,
                > > Book 10, page 222
                > >
                > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
                > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
                > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
                > > that?
                > >
                > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
                > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
                > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
                > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
                > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
                > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                >
                > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent
                >me
                > your post:>)
                >
                >
                >
                > something you are dealing with?
                >
                > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's
                >spiritual
                > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
                > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
                > the problem times.

                *** What's that? You here to bring us back to eckankar! Forget it!
                LOL!
                >
                > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
                > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what
                >my
                > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
                > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.

                *** Know what? My body knows, too, what it wants - and I know it as
                well! No miracles here, you just have to listen to your body. And if
                you don't, be aware of it at least.
                >
                > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
                > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.

                *** Great, good that you found the right method for yourself! But I
                can tell you, you don't need the mahanta for that - just go to a good
                doctor or nutritionist, or read websites about that!
                >
                > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
                > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons
                >to
                > the body.
                >
                > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating
                >lots
                > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
                > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
                > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
                > pain wins again:>)

                *** Well you know, your body just knew why it was so sick, and of
                course by listening to your mahanta, you dreamt about it. No
                surprises here either - that's just a conditioning!

                Ingrid
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Leecroth, Glad you found ESA. If you haven t already please read the ARCHIVES and check out the LINKS. I d like to now respond to your post. Either
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Leecroth,
                  Glad you found ESA. If you haven't already
                  please read the ARCHIVES and check out the
                  LINKS. I'd like to now respond to your post.

                  Either you're missing my point or I'm missing
                  yours. Klemp contradicts himself as he plays
                  to his audience. HK has also said to eat sugar
                  while you can... to enjoy the experience. As far
                  as the sugar and white flour comment... is that
                  supposed to be a profound spiritual message?
                  Klemp, the LEM/Mahanta, simply states the
                  obvious and what almost everyone else already
                  knows!

                  This seems to be the case with all of HK's quotes
                  I see posted on HU-Chat. However, HK is now,
                  basically, saying to just ignore white flour and
                  sugar and things that could cause "problems"
                  like what to eat! Just ignore disease and Chant
                  HU to garner divine love.

                  The Mahanta will see that your karma is taken
                  care of, or that you are moved to the head of the
                  line when you do croak!

                  Have any deceased H.I.s ever returned in dreams,
                  etc. to let ECKists know as to whether their grand
                  Inner Master's promises have been kept or what
                  their Mahanta's mission is now for them? Why not?
                  These are the "ECK Masters" that should be visiting
                  ECKists!

                  If Joan can appear in dreams then why not those
                  H.I.s who have translated? Why no stories of
                  departed H.I.s appearing and giving advice or proving
                  Paul's B.S.? Actually, Soul will mock-up whatever
                  or whomever and this is what Twit already knew.
                  That's what helps to give "proof" of ECK Masters.
                  The immature Soul needs this proof to accept its
                  existance before it is able to go beyond the limitations
                  created by their own minds and Self doubts. The
                  individual Soul needs to accept and recognize their
                  own divine Self and Mastership. The ECKANKAR
                  teachings prolong and prevent this from happening
                  and act as a KAL distraction/test by holding Souls
                  via a fake hierarchy with fake initiations and a fake
                  Master-in-charge. They are truly hens in a 'henhouse!'

                  Here's a comment from the original Mahanta P.T.:
                  "You see Maya is actually the dreamworld in which you
                  live in that dual viewpoint which sees good and bad.
                  Therefore what is called sin is but an illusion..."
                  [Letters to Gail, pg. 18]

                  Prometheus

                  leecroth wrote:
                  >
                  mishmisha wrote:
                  > >
                  "There might be a hundred different problems
                  in the person's life. Instead of wondering which
                  one to tackle first, I ignore the problems. I try to
                  show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through
                  all this stuff."

                  by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                  Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                  > >
                  HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
                  the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
                  to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
                  that?
                  > >
                  I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
                  Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
                  He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
                  people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
                  ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
                  no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                  HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!

                  Mish
                  > >
                  >
                  Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
                  your post:>)
                  >
                  something you are dealing with?
                  >
                  chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
                  exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
                  of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
                  the problem times.
                  >
                  My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
                  much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
                  body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
                  urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
                  >
                  am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
                  aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
                  >
                  Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
                  gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
                  the body.
                  >
                  So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
                  of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
                  favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
                  it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
                  pain wins again:>)
                  >
                  >
                  Ciao
                • mishmisha9
                  ... mishmisha9 ... Hi, Ciao! I agree that sitting quietly and contemplating can help one to find answers to problems but this is something any of us can do
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                    "leecroth" <leecroth@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                    "mishmisha9"
                    > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > "There might be a hundred dif-
                    > > ferent problems in the person's
                    > > life. Instead of wondering which
                    > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
                    > > problems. I try to show them
                    > > the way of divine love. Love
                    > > cuts through all this stuff."
                    > >
                    > > by Harold Klemp:
                    > > The Drumbeat of Time,
                    > > Mahanta Transcripts,
                    > > Book 10, page 222
                    > >
                    > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
                    > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
                    > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
                    > > that?
                    > >
                    > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
                    > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
                    > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
                    > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
                    > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
                    > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                    > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                    > >
                    > > Mish
                    > >
                    >
                    > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent me
                    > your post:>)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > something you are dealing with?
                    >
                    > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's spiritual
                    > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the myriad
                    > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience most of
                    > the problem times.
                    >
                    > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products, too
                    > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what my
                    > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
                    > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
                    >
                    > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
                    > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
                    >
                    > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a small
                    > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons to
                    > the body.
                    >
                    > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating lots
                    > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my absolute
                    > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
                    > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
                    > pain wins again:>)
                    >
                    >
                    > Ciao
                    >

                    Hi, Ciao!

                    I agree that sitting quietly and contemplating can help one to find
                    answers to problems but this is something any of us can do without
                    the assistance or reliance on a fake mahanta/geeky individual like
                    Harold Klemp.

                    Klemp does not offer anything new or profound. Very often it is just
                    mundane stuff that he has found sifting through the media sources--
                    probably on the Internet like the rest of us. Yeah, I don't believe
                    that he suffers from emr disease--that was more of a feeble attempt
                    to keep chelas off the Internet and less exposed to the groups that
                    continue to actively debunk eckankar.

                    Even though pancakes and maple syrup are yummy, we all know they
                    are not healthy foods, as well as the white flour and sugar--none of
                    that is enlightening, either from you or Harold Klemp. It's all a part of
                    education--not religiously based info! Frankly, just looking at Klemp
                    in the physical, he doesn't look like a healthy specimen, does he? Why
                    listen to his advice on health and diet?

                    As to what you do, yes, I agree to each his own, but I am fascinated by
                    your bathroom ritual of constantly testing for your ph balance.I've heard
                    of eckists and other new agers doing this, so I do know that it is practiced
                    by others! : )

                    If I've misunderstood you, you're welcome to clarify. I just find
                    surrendering one's problems to the mahanta is very misguided, often
                    confusing and delaying a seeker from taking care of even the simplest
                    of problems that we all come to face in our daily lives.

                    Anyway, welcome to ESA. Thank you for your post.

                    Mish
                  • tomleafeater
                    Hi Lee, Does your e-mail address mean Lee C. Roth? If so, I may have met you. Did you know eckists from Tucson? Anyway, we ve all felt as you do, once upon a
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Lee,

                      Does your e-mail address mean Lee C. Roth? If so, I may have
                      met you. Did you know eckists from Tucson?

                      Anyway, we've all felt as you do, once upon a time, long ago. I still
                      have a couple of boxes full of eck material. When I go through
                      the box to see what's in there after all these years, I can
                      understand better why I was so duped as an eckist, especially
                      back in the early years with Paul Twitchell, and actually, when I
                      look at the early 'eck world news' and other writings, eckankar
                      was clearly much more creative, artistic and fun in those days.
                      No offense, but I've come to the firm conclusion that though Paul
                      was the original flim flam man--the plagiarizing con man who
                      started it all--Klemp has devolved eckankar to even new lows.
                      Klemp isn't even fun, and damn, that's not good at all. Spirituality
                      should be fun, at least once in a while. Klemp is a real drag and
                      a downer, with all his moralistic sermonizing.

                      That aside, you mentioned a few things I'd like to comment on.
                      Did you know that the basic soul travel exercises are widely
                      known in many yogic groups throughout India? Not only do the
                      known Light and Sound groups from India use them, but I've
                      encountered them in a wide variety of other yogic groups. The
                      concept of light and sound is widely taught in India. You see,
                      these exercises have been around a long time, and are passed
                      down by various groups, and shared by many people over time.
                      They aren't secrets. The only difference is the semantics. Some
                      call it soul travel, some call it self actualization. Its the same
                      thing. Some call it meditation, some call it contemplation. Its still
                      the same thing. Identical!

                      And of course, there are possible benefits from practicing the
                      techniques, so it isn't surprising they have helped you. But this
                      doesn't mean Klemp is the highest teacher and you're on the
                      one and only path to omniscience. Most High Initiates, including
                      klemp, are really as ordinary as anyone, despite the effort they go
                      through to appear so aware.

                      As to the supposed health secrets, these ideas of Klemp's are
                      also widely known. He has found them by his own reading of the
                      literature. I have years of extensive training in traditional Chinese
                      medicine, which includes not only acupuncture, but nutrition,
                      food therapy, extensive herbal training, and also a diagnostic
                      system that takes years and years to master, as well as Western
                      biomedical training that is part of the program of study. I treat
                      people with a wide variety of health problems, including internal
                      medical problems, gynecological complaints, and even difficult
                      diseases such as cancer. I usually work with people who are
                      also being treated by Western doctors.

                      Klemp has benefited from acupuncture, according to his
                      anecdotes in one of his books. He would have learned some
                      things from the chinese doctor who treated him.

                      The point is, the ideas he speaks of are not new, but very old in
                      some cases. Sugar and starchy carbohydrates do cause
                      problems when over-indulged in, a fact that has been known by
                      the ancient Chinese, who were very observant of the effects of
                      food and diet. There is a good reason--both from the ancient as
                      well as the modern perspective--why such foods cause 'mucous'
                      buildup and inflammation, resulting in aches and pains.

                      I could direct you to several modern books on nutrition that not
                      only discuss the concepts you mentioned, but several more of
                      worthy note. This information is commonly available.

                      Thinking back to Klemp's nutritional pronouncements, his ideas
                      were quite rudimentary. He's touching on basics, and in some
                      areas he is misleading people, in my opinion. Hulda Clark's
                      ideas are questionable, for example.

                      I did agree with his changing eckankar policy regarding the
                      weekly fast, which he removed as a strict discipline. He was
                      correct in doing that., given the prevalent insulin resistance that
                      is occurring with most Americans in our age.

                      But he is not a qualified health professional, and there is much
                      more that may be helpful than falls within his scope of
                      knowledge. Its wonderful you were helped, but it wasn't inner
                      wisdom that Klemp offered, but information that is widely
                      circulating if one knows where to look. Klemp's own health
                      problems with environmental illness (very likely resulting from
                      his own previous dietary habits, including his heavy drinking at
                      one time, in my opinion) have surely been a catalyst for Klemp's
                      OWN search for solutions, which have led him to visit various
                      health practitioners, all paid by eckankar, of course. He in turn
                      has passed on the information gleaned from others to you.

                      By the way, Paul T's herb book is much out of date, and there are
                      numerous errors in the book.

                      Kent






                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                      "leecroth" <leecroth@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                      "mishmisha9"
                      > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > "There might be a hundred dif-
                      > > ferent problems in the person's
                      > > life. Instead of wondering which
                      > > one to tackle first, I ignore the
                      > > problems. I try to show them
                      > > the way of divine love. Love
                      > > cuts through all this stuff."
                      > >
                      > > by Harold Klemp:
                      > > The Drumbeat of Time,
                      > > Mahanta Transcripts,
                      > > Book 10, page 222
                      > >
                      > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what
                      > > the heck is this suppose to mean?? The solutions
                      > > to problems are to just ignore them? How nutty is
                      > > that?
                      > >
                      > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in
                      > > Chanhassen. In the real world, he couldn't make it.
                      > > He couldn't hold a real job or get along with normal
                      > > people, if his way of dealing with problems are to
                      > > ignore them by talking about divine love! All talk and
                      > > no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                      > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                      > >
                      > > Mish
                      > >
                      >
                      > Each to his own, I guess...here's a reply to the friend that sent
                      me
                      > your post:>)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > something you are dealing with?
                      >
                      > chanting hu & Mahanta garners divine love as one does one's
                      spiritual
                      > exercises which in turns gives one a higher viewpoint on the
                      myriad
                      > of problems confronting one...at least that's my experience
                      most of
                      > the problem times.
                      >
                      > My latest experience has been to cut out chips, wheat products,
                      too
                      > much fruit ~ like raisins, apples & so forth as I figure out what
                      my
                      > body really likes versus what I like....as I check everytime I
                      > urinate with litmus paper for the ph value.
                      >
                      > am getting lots & lots of surprises here...& reducing the various
                      > aches & mucous problems within by doing so.
                      >
                      > Sri Harold was quoted years ago by a friend of a friend at a
                      small
                      > gathering of Hi's for dinner that sugar & white flour are poisons
                      to
                      > the body.
                      >
                      > So several mornings later after hearing this, I dreamt of eating
                      lots
                      > of pancakes with lots of maple syrup ~ which used to be my
                      absolute
                      > favorite childhook food & even still is if my body could handle
                      > it...but I'm so tired of getting aches from that sort of diet, sooo
                      > pain wins again:>)
                      >
                      >
                      > Ciao
                      >
                    • etznab@aol.com
                      I took a client shopping at a bread store the other day. There must have been three to five different flavors of maple syrup on the shelf. I read the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                           I took a client shopping at a bread store the other day.
                        There must have been three to five different flavors of
                        maple syrup on the shelf. I read the ingredients. Not one
                        bottle [labeled as maple syrup] contained any maple syrup
                        at all! What they did contain were high fructose corn syrup
                        and artificial flavors, etc.

                           Maple syrup is loaded with natural minerals and a
                        safer form of sugar than the processed kind. The mineral
                        content [in part] comes from the fact that trees have very
                        long roots that can tap the mineral stores deep down in
                        the earth. Maple syrup is also one of the ingredients in
                        the "Master Cleanse" drink [consisting of lemon juice,
                        maple syrup, and cayenne pepper]. Lemon juice comes
                        from a tree as well. Cayenne pepper [among other things]
                        is good for ridding the body of excess mucus or phlegm.

                           Not all "maple syrup" is the same - especially when
                        the majority of brands sold today have little or none at
                        all.

                           As for sugar, there are several different forms of it
                        too.

                        Etznab
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hi All, I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to come in touch with my higher Self. This
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi All,
                          I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                          chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                          come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                          opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                          especially, when a question or more specific information
                          is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                          how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                          that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.

                          ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                          on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                          attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                          all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                          Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                          and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                          relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                          ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                          bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."

                          However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                          Chant, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof that the ECK
                          Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves that the promise
                          of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is a lie too!

                          Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                          are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                          know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                          Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!

                          When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                          of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                          this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                          Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                          abilities on the INNER is a lie too!

                          So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                          in determining our individual and group reality and
                          consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                          course, or problems (imbalance) arise.

                          Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                          beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                          from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                          therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                          and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                          own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                          religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                          'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                          (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                          higher values required of them.

                          Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                          where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                          with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                          Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                          people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                          who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                          have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                          8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                          about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!

                          However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                          learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                          required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                          Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                          for Soul?

                          Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                          of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                          growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                          is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                          again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                          teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                          like Rich and Cheryl!

                          Prometheus



                          prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi All,
                          > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                          > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                          > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                          > what value and meaning it has for us.
                          >
                          > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                          > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                          > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                          > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                          >
                          > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                          > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                          > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                          > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                          > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                          > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                          > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                          > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                          > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                          > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                          > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                          > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                          > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                          > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                          > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                          > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                          > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                          > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                          > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                          > higher awareness.
                          >
                          > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                          > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                          > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                          > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                          >
                          > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                          > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                          > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                          > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                          > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                          > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                          >
                          > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                          > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                          > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Non ekster wrote:
                          > >
                          > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                          > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                          > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                          > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                          > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                          > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                          > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                          > deceiver, Klemp.
                          > >
                          > Noneckster
                          > >
                          > mishmisha wrote:
                          > > >
                          > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                          > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                          > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                          > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                          > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                          > > >
                          > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                          > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                          > How nutty is that?
                          > > >
                          > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                          > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                          > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                          > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                          > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                          > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                          > > >
                          > Mish
                          >
                        • mishmisha9
                          Here s Rich s (Cyber-Sailor s) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.: the vision is sometimes muddied by those
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 12, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
                            in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:

                            "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
                            form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
                            and a cynical limited view."

                            It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
                            so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
                            Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
                            to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
                            Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )

                            The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
                            accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
                            and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
                            growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
                            Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
                            state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???

                            Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
                            before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
                            religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
                            a critical thinker.

                            Mish

                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                            "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi All,
                            > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                            > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                            > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                            > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                            > especially, when a question or more specific information
                            > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                            > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                            > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
                            >
                            > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                            > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                            > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                            > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                            > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                            > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                            > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                            > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                            > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
                            >
                            > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                            > Chant, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof that the ECK
                            > Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves that the promise
                            > of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is a lie too!
                            >
                            > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                            > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                            > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                            > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
                            >
                            > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                            > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                            > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                            > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                            > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
                            >
                            > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                            > in determining our individual and group reality and
                            > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                            > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
                            >
                            > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                            > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                            > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                            > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                            > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                            > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                            > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                            > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                            > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                            > higher values required of them.
                            >
                            > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                            > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                            > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                            > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                            > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                            > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                            > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                            > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                            > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
                            >
                            > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                            > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                            > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                            > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                            > for Soul?
                            >
                            > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                            > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                            > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                            > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                            > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                            > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                            > like Rich and Cheryl!
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi All,
                            > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                            > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                            > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                            > > what value and meaning it has for us.
                            > >
                            > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                            > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                            > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                            > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                            > >
                            > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                            > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                            > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                            > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                            > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                            > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                            > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                            > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                            > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                            > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                            > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                            > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                            > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                            > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                            > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                            > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                            > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                            > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                            > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                            > > higher awareness.
                            > >
                            > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                            > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                            > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                            > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                            > >
                            > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                            > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                            > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                            > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                            > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                            > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                            > >
                            > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                            > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                            > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                            > >
                            > > Prometheus
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Non ekster wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                            > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                            > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                            > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                            > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                            > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                            > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                            > > deceiver, Klemp.
                            > > >
                            > > Noneckster
                            > > >
                            > > mishmisha wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                            > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                            > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                            > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                            > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                            > > > >
                            > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                            > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                            > > How nutty is that?
                            > > > >
                            > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                            > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                            > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                            > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                            > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                            > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                            > > > >
                            > > Mish
                            > >
                            >
                          • prometheus_973
                            Hi Mish, I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean, nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT. Klemp just can t control her can he!
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 12, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Mish,
                              I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean,
                              nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT.
                              Klemp just can't control her can he! You'd think that
                              someone at the ESC would be in charge. Yes, it seems
                              Klemp's talk about doing something about those H.I.
                              Foxes outside of the ECKANKAR Henhouse must be
                              more cheap talk! That's one of the "problems" Klemp
                              has always had... Not implementing, especially in a timely
                              manner, and Not following-thru.

                              Maybe HK's comments from the 12/2006 H.I. Letter will be
                              studied, and discussed (for awhile longer). Some suggestions
                              will probably be mailed to RESAs and RESA Services. I'm sure
                              that this H.I. Fox problem Will Not take the usual Five Years
                              to be resolved. Instead, my prediction is that this H.I.
                              KAL-ECK 'FOX' situation will continue to be ignored but
                              Not forgotten as long as KAL-ECK Vahanas Rich and Cheryl
                              are posting.

                              Prometheus

                              mishmisha wrote:
                              >
                              > Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
                              > in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:
                              >
                              > "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
                              > form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
                              > and a cynical limited view."
                              >
                              > It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
                              > so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
                              > Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
                              > to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
                              > Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )
                              >
                              > The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
                              > accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
                              > and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
                              > growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
                              > Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
                              > state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???
                              >
                              > Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
                              > before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
                              > religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
                              > a critical thinker.
                              >
                              > Mish
                              >
                              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                              > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi All,
                              > > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
                              > > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
                              > > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
                              > > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
                              > > especially, when a question or more specific information
                              > > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
                              > > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
                              > > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
                              > >
                              > > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
                              > > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
                              > > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
                              > > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
                              > > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
                              > > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
                              > > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
                              > > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
                              > > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
                              > >
                              > > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
                              > > Chant, Chela-Chat, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof
                              >> that the ECK Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves
                              >> that the promise of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is
                              >> a lie too!
                              > >
                              > > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
                              > > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
                              > > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
                              > > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
                              > >
                              > > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
                              > > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
                              > > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
                              > > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
                              > > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
                              > >
                              > > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
                              > > in determining our individual and group reality and
                              > > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
                              > > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
                              > >
                              > > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
                              > > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
                              > > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
                              > > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
                              > > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
                              > > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
                              > > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
                              > > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
                              > > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
                              > > higher values required of them.
                              > >
                              > > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
                              > > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
                              > > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
                              > > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
                              > > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
                              > > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
                              > > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
                              > > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
                              > > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
                              > >
                              > > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
                              > > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
                              > > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
                              > > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
                              > > for Soul?
                              > >
                              > > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
                              > > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
                              > > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
                              > > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
                              > > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
                              > > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
                              > > like Rich and Cheryl!
                              > >
                              > > Prometheus
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > prometheus wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi All,
                              > > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
                              > > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
                              > > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
                              > > > what value and meaning it has for us.
                              > > >
                              > > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
                              > > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
                              > > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
                              > > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
                              > > >
                              > > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
                              > > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
                              > > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
                              > > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
                              > > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
                              > > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
                              > > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
                              > > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
                              > > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
                              > > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
                              > > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
                              > > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
                              > > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
                              > > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
                              > > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
                              > > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
                              > > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
                              > > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
                              > > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
                              > > > higher awareness.
                              > > >
                              > > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
                              > > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
                              > > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
                              > > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
                              > > >
                              > > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
                              > > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
                              > > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
                              > > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
                              > > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
                              > > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
                              > > >
                              > > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
                              > > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
                              > > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
                              > > >
                              > > > Prometheus
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Non ekster wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
                              > > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
                              > > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
                              > > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
                              > > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
                              > > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
                              > > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
                              > > > deceiver, Klemp.
                              > > > >
                              > > > Noneckster
                              > > > >
                              > > > mishmisha wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
                              > > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
                              > > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
                              > > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
                              > > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
                              > > > > >
                              > > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
                              > > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
                              > > > How nutty is that?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
                              > > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
                              > > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
                              > > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
                              > > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
                              > > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
                              > > > > >
                              > > > Mish
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.