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  • naranjansalibi
    I m an ex-eckist. Got in as a teenager in the early seventies. Got the usual stripes - 6th initiate, initiator, esa, clergy, unbalanced life of grinding
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 27, 2007
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      I'm an ex-eckist. Got in as a teenager in the early seventies. Got the
      usual stripes - 6th initiate, initiator, esa, clergy, unbalanced life of
      grinding serrvice to the org. Never was a real true believer though.
      Guess I kept waiting for the change that would make it all worthwhile.
      Never happened, of course. Had a hard time internalizing the rigid
      authoritarian model of life I guess. Quit over a decade ago, but the
      negative effects of eck indoctrination have lingered in my life to
      different degrees. It's been a learning process though. I suppose if I
      hadn't had the fantasy world of eckankar to push against, I would have
      found some other bogus system of thought or ideology to internalize,
      outgrow and then reject. We all get where we're going by one means or
      another, right?

      Anyway, not much to say right now. Just joined this list and wanted to
      post and say hi. Found this yahoo group the other day after reading some
      posts at the "eckankar truth" group site. Been reading A.R.E. off and on
      for a few years. It can get pretty brutal there, but the dark side of
      eckankar gets exposed there quite effectively for the world to see. It's
      a good place to help a person remember just how debilitating eckankar can
      be on people (I'm talking here mostly about the eck defenders who
      habitually post there.) I've always gotten really useful insights and
      even encouragement from Tian Yue's (Kent's) posts there. He has a knack
      for handing them their collective ass just about every time. (bravo kent!)

      ok. anyway. I guess that's it for now.

      :-)
      naranjan's alibi
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Naran, Welcome to the site! We re here to inform and to share general and specific information, insights and perspectives on the ECKANKAR SCAM. Also, to
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 28, 2007
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        Hello Naran,
        Welcome to the site! We're here to inform and to share general
        and specific information, insights and perspectives on the
        ECKANKAR SCAM. Also, to figure out WHY we bought into much
        of the B.S. and/or stayed for as long as we did. I find it interesting
        to view the ECK crap with new eyes in figuring out WHY I needed
        it and hung in there for so long when I saw so many contradictions
        ... especially in the negative and goofy behaviours of many (fellow)
        H.I.s who were supposed to have a "higher" consciousness and
        higher integrity and ethics. And, let's not forget Twitchell's con or
        the lies and plagiarisms that Klemp still uses, or HK's negative
        words, goofy little (overly simplistic) stories, and his contradictions
        as well! WOW! What a load of crap!

        Perhaps you could share some of the things that you observed and
        made you wonder about the validity of it all, or WHY it was that
        you never fully bought into it.

        I think that many ECKists haven't left because they went through
        a lot of sh_t to earn their initiation rank, and haven't found a
        substitute for ECKANKAR as yet. They would have too much of a
        void otherwise. What's your take on it?

        Anyway, I hope we can hear more from you.

        Prometheus

        naranjansalibi wrote:
        >
        > I'm an ex-eckist. Got in as a teenager in the early seventies. Got the
        > usual stripes - 6th initiate, initiator, esa, clergy, unbalanced life of
        > grinding serrvice to the org. Never was a real true believer though.
        > Guess I kept waiting for the change that would make it all worthwhile.
        > Never happened, of course. Had a hard time internalizing the rigid
        > authoritarian model of life I guess. Quit over a decade ago, but the
        > negative effects of eck indoctrination have lingered in my life to
        > different degrees. It's been a learning process though. I suppose if I
        > hadn't had the fantasy world of eckankar to push against, I would have
        > found some other bogus system of thought or ideology to internalize,
        > outgrow and then reject. We all get where we're going by one means or
        > another, right?
        >
        > Anyway, not much to say right now. Just joined this list and wanted to
        > post and say hi. Found this yahoo group the other day after reading some
        > posts at the "eckankar truth" group site. Been reading A.R.E. off and on
        > for a few years. It can get pretty brutal there, but the dark side of
        > eckankar gets exposed there quite effectively for the world to see. It's
        > a good place to help a person remember just how debilitating eckankar can
        > be on people (I'm talking here mostly about the eck defenders who
        > habitually post there.) I've always gotten really useful insights and
        > even encouragement from Tian Yue's (Kent's) posts there. He has a knack
        > for handing them their collective ass just about every time. (bravo kent!)
        >
        > ok. anyway. I guess that's it for now.
        >
        > :-)
        > naranjan's alibi
        >
      • tomleafeater
        Hi and welcome, Your story sounds a lot like mine. I got in as a teenager in the early seventies as well. You wrote that you kept waiting for the change that
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 29, 2007
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          Hi and welcome,

          Your story sounds a lot like mine. I got in as a teenager in the
          early seventies as well.

          You wrote that you kept waiting for the change that would make it all
          worthwhile, and about the negative effects of indoctrination. Ditto
          for me as well. I still find subtle threads of the effects of
          eckankar unexpectedly turning up in my head. Its taken me awhile to
          reclaim my life, since I was a member since age sixteen. Its taken
          some time to rediscover myself outside of eckankar. Despite outward
          appearances when I was an eckist, I was never really a natural
          eckist, but I tried to be. I tried to force myself to fit, even as I
          kept seeing through it all. What a trap it was.

          Hey, I'm glad you liked my posts on a.r.e., the land of the tortured
          and abused!

          Kent

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "naranjansalibi"
          <mudorio@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm an ex-eckist. Got in as a teenager in the early seventies. Got
          the
          > usual stripes - 6th initiate, initiator, esa, clergy, unbalanced
          life of
          > grinding serrvice to the org. Never was a real true believer
          though.
          > Guess I kept waiting for the change that would make it all
          worthwhile.
          > Never happened, of course. Had a hard time internalizing the rigid
          > authoritarian model of life I guess. Quit over a decade ago, but
          the
          > negative effects of eck indoctrination have lingered in my life to
          > different degrees. It's been a learning process though. I suppose
          if I
          > hadn't had the fantasy world of eckankar to push against, I would
          have
          > found some other bogus system of thought or ideology to
          internalize,
          > outgrow and then reject. We all get where we're going by one means
          or
          > another, right?
          >
          > Anyway, not much to say right now. Just joined this list and wanted
          to
          > post and say hi. Found this yahoo group the other day after reading
          some
          > posts at the "eckankar truth" group site. Been reading A.R.E. off
          and on
          > for a few years. It can get pretty brutal there, but the dark side
          of
          > eckankar gets exposed there quite effectively for the world to see.
          It's
          > a good place to help a person remember just how debilitating
          eckankar can
          > be on people (I'm talking here mostly about the eck defenders who
          > habitually post there.) I've always gotten really useful insights
          and
          > even encouragement from Tian Yue's (Kent's) posts there. He has a
          knack
          > for handing them their collective ass just about every time. (bravo
          kent!)
          >
          > ok. anyway. I guess that's it for now.
          >
          > :-)
          > naranjan's alibi
          >
        • naranjansalibi
          Hi Kent, I m glad you ve been persistant over the years in posting on the various eckankar sites. And I m guessing of course, but my guess is that plenty of
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 29, 2007
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            Hi Kent,

            I'm glad you've been persistant over the years in posting on the
            various eckankar sites. And I'm guessing of course, but my guess is
            that plenty of people who've graduated from eckankar have found
            encouragement and some clarity by reading your perspectives on
            things. There's so much to be gained I think, from people talking
            frankly about their experience with eckankar, and the different
            things that shaped it. It's only in the last few years that I've
            even realized that other people (like you e.g.) have gone through
            some similar experiences to me.

            An aweful lot of my life had gone undigested for many years because I
            had no reliable reference points to judge my experience of eckankar
            by. (Which lead to some real nasty stuff along the way.) Having been
            drawn into eckankar at a young age, much of my early identity and
            [lack of] understanding of the world was shaped or mis-shapen by the
            insular, artificial world of eckankar.

            It's a good thing that ex-eckists are making the facts about eckankar
            available these days so people can make more informed decisions then
            you or I were able to way back when. But it's also been important to
            me to read what the experience has been like personally for people.
            Talking about your personal spiritual journey in a public forum can
            be a little tricky though. But people seem to manage it pretty well I
            guess.

            ^^^
            Yeah, I wasn't a natural eckist by any means either. First of all I'm
            not an A type over-achiever; I'm not particularly buttoned up or
            protestant in my approach to life, and I was never able to develop
            that strange fascination with intestinal purity that so many eckists
            seem to share. :-) But like you, I tried to get along and for what it
            was worth, gave it my all.

            I think one of the things that snagged me for so long though, was the
            line they feed you about service to the organization giving greater
            spiritual unfoldment. The hook at the end of that line was that I got
            skipped up to the 5th pretty quickly. So I figured the LEM must have
            known something about my inner service to the eck that I sure as hell
            didn't... "Maybe it's my destiny," I rationalized to myself. Getting
            no argument on this from the either an inner or outer master, I then
            proceded to "stuff" my more serious reservations and stepped up to
            the plate like any good eck do-bee would do. I can laugh now
            thankfully.

            As it turned out Harold Klemp didn't know squat about me, and I had
            been defering constantly for years to the non-existant spiritual
            judgement of a nominal guru. The facts were that I'd been recruited
            from a very sparse field of candidates left after the Darwin thing
            wiped out nearly the entire area h.i. population. Yep, I was a
            genuine case of "shake and bake" higher consciousness! lol. For many,
            many reasons, I had no business at all being so inexperienced and
            trying to fill that role as some kind of high eck example to others.
            Yep. I was a walking contradiction and I knew it. I think that's
            about when I developed my taste for sarcastic self-parody and dark
            humor - two unlikely forms of detachment that apparently make eckies'
            heads explode.

            Who'd have guessed?

            Well anyway, that was one of the traps that kept me around for so
            long. I figured my place in the scheme of things would eventually
            become apparent after awhile. It never did of course. I ended up
            scouring my dreams and contemplations and waking sychronicities in my
            life - looking for a pattern that might finally render it all
            meaningful. I just ended up seriously running out of gas and slid
            into a pretty serious depression that went untreated for way too
            long. It was such a deadening process.

            But the best part is that now life's good. I've come a long way in
            getting my life back (for the first time). And ironically, this life
            I'd once dreamed I'd wanted for myself has come about so surpisingly
            complete you'd almost think I'd planned it like this. ;-)

            Well, better late than never. That's what I always say...

            naranjan's alibi

            P.S.
            A.R.E.: The land of the tortured and abused. Indeed. {:-]


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi and welcome,
            >
            > Your story sounds a lot like mine. I got in as a teenager in the
            > early seventies as well.
            >
            > You wrote that you kept waiting for the change that would make it
            all
            > worthwhile, and about the negative effects of indoctrination. Ditto
            > for me as well. I still find subtle threads of the effects of
            > eckankar unexpectedly turning up in my head. Its taken me awhile to
            > reclaim my life, since I was a member since age sixteen. Its taken
            > some time to rediscover myself outside of eckankar. Despite outward
            > appearances when I was an eckist, I was never really a natural
            > eckist, but I tried to be. I tried to force myself to fit, even as
            I
            > kept seeing through it all. What a trap it was.
            >
            > Hey, I'm glad you liked my posts on a.r.e., the land of the
            tortured
            > and abused!
            >
            > Kent
            >

            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hi All, I d like to thank you both for sharing so much about the ECK CON. It does seem like it was a major test of the KAL doesn t it! Freedom at Last!
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 30, 2007
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              Hi All,
              I'd like to thank you both for sharing so much about the ECK
              CON. It does seem like it was a major test of the KAL doesn't it!
              Freedom at Last!

              Prometheus
              p.s. Naranjanalibi, could you share some specifics as to the
              goofy behaviours, etc. of fellow H.I.s that you saw?


              naranjansalibi wrote:
              >
              > Hi Kent,
              >
              > I'm glad you've been persistant over the years in posting on the
              > various eckankar sites. And I'm guessing of course, but my guess is
              > that plenty of people who've graduated from eckankar have found
              > encouragement and some clarity by reading your perspectives on
              > things. There's so much to be gained I think, from people talking
              > frankly about their experience with eckankar, and the different
              > things that shaped it. It's only in the last few years that I've
              > even realized that other people (like you e.g.) have gone through
              > some similar experiences to me.
              >
              > An aweful lot of my life had gone undigested for many years because I
              > had no reliable reference points to judge my experience of eckankar
              > by. (Which lead to some real nasty stuff along the way.) Having been
              > drawn into eckankar at a young age, much of my early identity and
              > [lack of] understanding of the world was shaped or mis-shapen by the
              > insular, artificial world of eckankar.
              >
              > It's a good thing that ex-eckists are making the facts about eckankar
              > available these days so people can make more informed decisions then
              > you or I were able to way back when. But it's also been important to
              > me to read what the experience has been like personally for people.
              > Talking about your personal spiritual journey in a public forum can
              > be a little tricky though. But people seem to manage it pretty well I
              > guess.
              >
              > ^^^
              > Yeah, I wasn't a natural eckist by any means either. First of all I'm
              > not an A type over-achiever; I'm not particularly buttoned up or
              > protestant in my approach to life, and I was never able to develop
              > that strange fascination with intestinal purity that so many eckists
              > seem to share. :-) But like you, I tried to get along and for what it
              > was worth, gave it my all.
              >
              > I think one of the things that snagged me for so long though, was the
              > line they feed you about service to the organization giving greater
              > spiritual unfoldment. The hook at the end of that line was that I got
              > skipped up to the 5th pretty quickly. So I figured the LEM must have
              > known something about my inner service to the eck that I sure as hell
              > didn't... "Maybe it's my destiny," I rationalized to myself. Getting
              > no argument on this from the either an inner or outer master, I then
              > proceded to "stuff" my more serious reservations and stepped up to
              > the plate like any good eck do-bee would do. I can laugh now
              > thankfully.
              >
              > As it turned out Harold Klemp didn't know squat about me, and I had
              > been defering constantly for years to the non-existant spiritual
              > judgement of a nominal guru. The facts were that I'd been recruited
              > from a very sparse field of candidates left after the Darwin thing
              > wiped out nearly the entire area h.i. population. Yep, I was a
              > genuine case of "shake and bake" higher consciousness! lol. For many,
              > many reasons, I had no business at all being so inexperienced and
              > trying to fill that role as some kind of high eck example to others.
              > Yep. I was a walking contradiction and I knew it. I think that's
              > about when I developed my taste for sarcastic self-parody and dark
              > humor - two unlikely forms of detachment that apparently make eckies'
              > heads explode.
              >
              > Who'd have guessed?
              >
              > Well anyway, that was one of the traps that kept me around for so
              > long. I figured my place in the scheme of things would eventually
              > become apparent after awhile. It never did of course. I ended up
              > scouring my dreams and contemplations and waking sychronicities in my
              > life - looking for a pattern that might finally render it all
              > meaningful. I just ended up seriously running out of gas and slid
              > into a pretty serious depression that went untreated for way too
              > long. It was such a deadening process.
              >
              > But the best part is that now life's good. I've come a long way in
              > getting my life back (for the first time). And ironically, this life
              > I'd once dreamed I'd wanted for myself has come about so surpisingly
              > complete you'd almost think I'd planned it like this. ;-)
              >
              > Well, better late than never. That's what I always say...
              >
              > naranjan's alibi
              >
              > P.S.
              > A.R.E.: The land of the tortured and abused. Indeed. {:-]
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              > "tomleafeater" <tianyue@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi and welcome,
              > >
              > > Your story sounds a lot like mine. I got in as a teenager in the
              > > early seventies as well.
              > >
              > > You wrote that you kept waiting for the change that would make it
              > all
              > > worthwhile, and about the negative effects of indoctrination. Ditto
              > > for me as well. I still find subtle threads of the effects of
              > > eckankar unexpectedly turning up in my head. Its taken me awhile to
              > > reclaim my life, since I was a member since age sixteen. Its taken
              > > some time to rediscover myself outside of eckankar. Despite outward
              > > appearances when I was an eckist, I was never really a natural
              > > eckist, but I tried to be. I tried to force myself to fit, even as
              > I
              > > kept seeing through it all. What a trap it was.
              > >
              > > Hey, I'm glad you liked my posts on a.r.e., the land of the
              > tortured
              > > and abused!
              > >
              > > Kent
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
            • naranjansalibi
              ... LOL {:-) goofy behaviors of fellow h.i. s??? Prometheus mah brotha if I had to point out any goofy behaviors of h.i. s in eckankar, I d have to start
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 31, 2007
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                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > p.s. Naranjanalibi, could you share some specifics as to the
                > goofy behaviours, etc. of fellow H.I.s that you saw?
                >
                >

                LOL {:-) goofy behaviors of fellow h.i.'s???

                Prometheus mah' brotha' if I had to point out any goofy behaviors of
                h.i.'s in eckankar, I'd have to start with myself - the h.i.
                minister of goofiness hisowndamnself!

                But I'll tell you for sure - I've got lots of funny stories about
                the weirdness that can happen when an insulated group of religious
                chief cooks and bottle washers give each other permission to act
                like "God Warriors of the Astral Planes" (possibly from the Marvel
                comics universe), or secret squirrels of the sugmad, and (of course)
                the usual overall snoops, busy bodies, politikers and misguided do-
                gooders one finds populating most middle-class protestant church
                halls everywhere.

                I definitely bought into some, but not all, of this silliness
                myself. But I do remember, in the middle of it all, I often found
                myself wondering (sometimes aloud) why eckankar kept getting more
                dumbed-down, vacuous and kitsch all the time. It had to be frigging
                intentional! I really was basically uncomfortable with the whole
                setup - the whole institutionally produced, market driven culture of
                of the cult. And the fact that everyone seemed to just internalize
                this stuff as if it were the crowning aesthetic of spiritual
                consciousness... Well, I'll leave it at that.

                Unfortunately though, as an h.i. I'd trustingly surrendered my
                undeveloped young ego, will and personal life to the ever-alluded-to
                but never-adequately-explained "mission of the mahanta." Like a lot
                of other people in eckankar, I stifled my own intuitions and
                feelings of uneasiness about it. Instead I defered to the
                ordinances, policies and marketing schemes of the org. As a tool of
                the corporation, I embraced a driving enthusiasm for my volunteer
                work and came not only to thoroughly doubt my perceptions, but to
                literally ignore my self at some of the deepest levels of my
                heartmind.

                Apparently this kind of thing happened in different ways to a lot of
                other people too.

                Yeah. Plenty of funny stories about the high silliness of eckankar.

                naranjan's alibi
              • mishmisha9
                Hi, Nanjanalibi! Welcome to the group--I enjoyed reading your post, nice sense fo humor! Being able to laugh at one s eckankar experience is really healthy. In
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 31, 2007
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                  Hi, Nanjanalibi!

                  Welcome to the group--I enjoyed reading your post, nice
                  sense fo humor! Being able to laugh at one's eckankar
                  experience is really healthy. In a way, I'm glad I got caught
                  up in so I could laugh at myself for doing so! LOL!

                  Anyway, I have a big problem with Harold Klemp's writing
                  and speaking style. He is just plain too common and untalented
                  to be the leader of a cult, really! I mean where's the charisma??

                  And I am so puzzled by the fact that he is a member of the
                  "International Who's Who of Intellectuals, Ninth Edition! How
                  does that happen when he writes so mundanely?? For example,
                  from "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," he wrote:

                  (in a dream state an eck chela wrote), "A woman approched him.
                  'I'm Harold Klemp's wife,' she said. 'I want to welcome you to
                  Eckankar. My husband will help you anytime and in any way he can.'
                  Then Wah Z (a name for me on the inner planes), the Inner Master,
                  entered the room. His wife continued, 'I want to introduce you to
                  my husband.' Wah Z repeated, 'Yes, I will help you in any way I can.'"

                  Does that sound like an intellectual? Sounds rather junior high to
                  me which is where Klemp's maturity probably faltered and halted.
                  LOL!

                  Mish

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "naranjansalibi" <mudorio@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "prometheus_973"
                  > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > p.s. Naranjanalibi, could you share some specifics as to the
                  > > goofy behaviours, etc. of fellow H.I.s that you saw?
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > LOL {:-) goofy behaviors of fellow h.i.'s???
                  >
                  > Prometheus mah' brotha' if I had to point out any goofy behaviors of
                  > h.i.'s in eckankar, I'd have to start with myself - the h.i.
                  > minister of goofiness hisowndamnself!
                  >
                  > But I'll tell you for sure - I've got lots of funny stories about
                  > the weirdness that can happen when an insulated group of religious
                  > chief cooks and bottle washers give each other permission to act
                  > like "God Warriors of the Astral Planes" (possibly from the Marvel
                  > comics universe), or secret squirrels of the sugmad, and (of course)
                  > the usual overall snoops, busy bodies, politikers and misguided do-
                  > gooders one finds populating most middle-class protestant church
                  > halls everywhere.
                  >
                  > I definitely bought into some, but not all, of this silliness
                  > myself. But I do remember, in the middle of it all, I often found
                  > myself wondering (sometimes aloud) why eckankar kept getting more
                  > dumbed-down, vacuous and kitsch all the time. It had to be frigging
                  > intentional! I really was basically uncomfortable with the whole
                  > setup - the whole institutionally produced, market driven culture of
                  > of the cult. And the fact that everyone seemed to just internalize
                  > this stuff as if it were the crowning aesthetic of spiritual
                  > consciousness... Well, I'll leave it at that.
                  >
                  > Unfortunately though, as an h.i. I'd trustingly surrendered my
                  > undeveloped young ego, will and personal life to the ever-alluded-to
                  > but never-adequately-explained "mission of the mahanta." Like a lot
                  > of other people in eckankar, I stifled my own intuitions and
                  > feelings of uneasiness about it. Instead I defered to the
                  > ordinances, policies and marketing schemes of the org. As a tool of
                  > the corporation, I embraced a driving enthusiasm for my volunteer
                  > work and came not only to thoroughly doubt my perceptions, but to
                  > literally ignore my self at some of the deepest levels of my
                  > heartmind.
                  >
                  > Apparently this kind of thing happened in different ways to a lot of
                  > other people too.
                  >
                  > Yeah. Plenty of funny stories about the high silliness of eckankar.
                  >
                  > naranjan's alibi
                  >
                • naranjansalibi
                  ... can. ... I really don t have anything too helpful to offer about the who s who intellectual thing, but I d say whoever published this stuff is slick as
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 31, 2007
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                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                    <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > And I am so puzzled by the fact that he is a member of the
                    > "International Who's Who of Intellectuals, Ninth Edition! How
                    > does that happen when he writes so mundanely?? For example,
                    > from "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," he wrote:
                    >
                    > (in a dream state an eck chela wrote), "A woman approched him.
                    > 'I'm Harold Klemp's wife,' she said. 'I want to welcome you to
                    > Eckankar. My husband will help you anytime and in any way he can.'
                    > Then Wah Z (a name for me on the inner planes), the Inner Master,
                    > entered the room. His wife continued, 'I want to introduce you to
                    > my husband.' Wah Z repeated, 'Yes, I will help you in any way I
                    can.'"
                    >
                    > Does that sound like an intellectual? Sounds rather junior high to
                    > me which is where Klemp's maturity probably faltered and halted.
                    > LOL!
                    >
                    > Mish
                    >

                    I really don't have anything too helpful to offer about the who's
                    who intellectual thing, but I'd say whoever published this stuff is
                    slick as hell and knows exactly who their audience is. You know how
                    appearances can be deceptive - especially in the fun-house hall of
                    mirrors they call eckankar. :-)
                  • mishmisha9
                    I agree about the audience Klemp s book are directed to, and I also marvel at the books he recommends for reading as well--very inferior selections for the
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 1 9:41 AM
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                      I agree about the audience Klemp's book are directed to, and I also
                      marvel at the books he recommends for reading as well--very inferior
                      selections for the most part, but it helps keep the eckies distracted and
                      delusional! Do you think that eckankar works best with the non-intellectuals?
                      It seems that critical thinking is one thing a person has to shed when
                      following this looney tunes religious path!

                      One thing for sure, though, Klemp's recognition in the Who's Who of
                      Literary Intellectuals really shows that most Who's Who, if not all, are
                      yet again another form of bogus scamming. I'm sure most of us have had
                      opportunities to have our names listed in various such pubs--which amounts
                      to a good publishing business for those who make money from it, and it is
                      very ego stroking for those like Klemp who like to see their names
                      "honored" in such ways! Plus, it makes a good impression for the gullible
                      to read this in the bio flap when deciding to purchase the eckancrap books.
                      Works well in marketing Klemp's dumb books! I will say, though, that "Those
                      Wonderful ECK Masters" is fun reading, because it is just so full of ridiculous
                      cult scheming in hooking chelas and newbies. I had many a good chuckle
                      reading it. So I don't feel too badly for buying it--good entertainment for
                      an ex-eckist! LOL!

                      Mish

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "naranjansalibi"
                      <mudorio@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                      > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > And I am so puzzled by the fact that he is a member of the
                      > > "International Who's Who of Intellectuals, Ninth Edition! How
                      > > does that happen when he writes so mundanely?? For example,
                      > > from "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," he wrote:
                      > >
                      > > (in a dream state an eck chela wrote), "A woman approched him.
                      > > 'I'm Harold Klemp's wife,' she said. 'I want to welcome you to
                      > > Eckankar. My husband will help you anytime and in any way he can.'
                      > > Then Wah Z (a name for me on the inner planes), the Inner Master,
                      > > entered the room. His wife continued, 'I want to introduce you to
                      > > my husband.' Wah Z repeated, 'Yes, I will help you in any way I
                      > can.'"
                      > >
                      > > Does that sound like an intellectual? Sounds rather junior high to
                      > > me which is where Klemp's maturity probably faltered and halted.
                      > > LOL!
                      > >
                      > > Mish
                      > >
                      >
                      > I really don't have anything too helpful to offer about the who's
                      > who intellectual thing, but I'd say whoever published this stuff is
                      > slick as hell and knows exactly who their audience is. You know how
                      > appearances can be deceptive - especially in the fun-house hall of
                      > mirrors they call eckankar. :-)
                      >
                    • naranjansalibi
                      ... eckancrap books. ... Hi mish, Yeah. I m pretty sure I read somewhere that the who s who in... series is a form of vanity press. But I suppose it might
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 1 1:10 PM
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                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                        <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >Plus, it makes a good impression for the gullible
                        >to read this in the bio flap when deciding to purchase the
                        eckancrap >books.
                        >

                        Hi mish,

                        Yeah. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the "who's who in..."
                        series is a form of vanity press. But I suppose it might seem
                        legitimate to the kind of people who buy their religion from the
                        back pages of tv guide and deep cable infomercials.

                        I have to say, I've never read any of HKs "books" all the way
                        through. I could rarely even get through those mystic world notes of
                        his or the H.I. letters for most of the time I was still getting
                        them in the mail. It seemed like he was always nursing a black eye,
                        or a stubbed toe, or grumbling about all the bad, ungrateful,
                        karmically doomed chelas who just weren't "getting" the awesome
                        godliness of his slick new reinvented religion. Harold's writings
                        have always been about as dreary and inspiring as those old catholic
                        tracts we'd get at church when I was a kid. They'd rant on and on
                        about abysmally dull things like communism, birth control and
                        endless booster club fundraisers.

                        Harold's talks were a lot like his writing too as I recall. Did you
                        ever notice that his talks all sounded alike after awhile? I used to
                        say he was directly channeling "God's own bird-feeder secrets and
                        kitty cat wisdom". I also remember he would offer lots of good
                        advice about surviving and "winning" in the harsh game of eck
                        hierarchy climbing. If you break it down, the spirituality of
                        eckankar comes pretty much out of a "survival of the fittest/natural
                        selection" paradigm. (Ironically, that would be considered Darwinian
                        wouldn't it? - heh-heh).

                        Ask any of his followers. They all cast themselves with basically
                        the same cliche images of dominance. Check it out. Even the way the
                        LEM has assumed "the rod" each time - always quite contentious and
                        embattled. Darwin punked Paul by tagging his wife Gail. Harold
                        knocked Darwin off the hay pile with the heavy guns of public
                        slander and demonizing, coupled with plenty of legal fire power.
                        That's the current that runs through - same as it always was. In the
                        tradition, I wonder how the next one will rise and topple our boy
                        HK...

                        It's funny actually how they get away with selling such obvious
                        banality with the books, tapes and seminars - while at the same time
                        convincing the followers they're beyond all the ordinary conventions
                        and agreements of human life without ever producing a modicum of
                        proof. Ever notice how everyone in eck sees themselves as an eagle,
                        or a ram, or a swordsman, while non/ex-eckists are the teeming
                        masses, the goats, foxes, jackals and worms? (Don't tell them Harold
                        thinks of them all as a bunch of helpless dewey little chickens in a
                        hen house.) Ever notice how everyone in eckankar is convinced they
                        posess the penetrating insight and loftiest overview of the highest -
                        even while repeatedly and demonstrably WRONG, or merely copping the
                        off-the-shelf postures and verbiage of their h.i. sub-gurus?

                        Ahhh. You gotta love 'em. May the godlings bless their copyrighted
                        little hearts...

                        :->
                        naranjan's alibi
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello All, I ve enjoyed reading the comments here. In Those Wonderful ECK Masters Klemp contradicts PT s ECKANKAR Dictionary definition and his own ECKANKAR
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 1 5:30 PM
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                          Hello All,
                          I've enjoyed reading the comments here. In "Those Wonderful
                          ECK Masters" Klemp contradicts PT's ECKANKAR Dictionary
                          definition and his own ECKANKAR Lexicon definition of ECKANKAR.

                          Klemp states in Chapter 10 on Paul Twitchell "A Master Compiler:"

                          HK: "Paul's task was to gather the time-tested [Old Lower World
                          Dogma] BITS and PIECES of the MOST ACCURATE parts of what
                          had been given in the PAST. In a sense, HE BECAME A MASTER
                          COMPILER."

                          ME: I wonder what areas of Truth that he missed? Afterall, PT
                          was only human and far from perfect! And, just how "accurate"
                          are these "bits and pieces" since they are often taken out of
                          context and redesigned for the Western Mind and lifestyle?
                          Little League and Soccer anyone?

                          HK: "HE [PT] COLLECTED THE GOLDEN TEACHINGS SCATTERED
                          ABOUT THE GLOBE AND RENDERED THEM INTO A SINGLE BODY
                          OF TEACHINGS, THAT MADE THEM READILY AVAILABLE TO ALL."

                          ME: And, this COLLECTION/COMPILING or hunting and gathering
                          of "bits and pieces" of "golden teachings" was before the Internet!
                          This is why Twit could not have found it all.

                          Here's the PT/HK LEXICON definition of ECKANKAR that pertains
                          to HK's comments of PT "COMPILING" "SCATTERED" "BITS and
                          PIECES" of "golden teachings" from the "PAST."

                          "ECKANKAR... THE TOTAL SUM OF ALL TEACHINGS EMANATING
                          FROM GOD." [page 56] This was the Catch-22 disclaimer that HK
                          has now revised (when it suits him he'll bring it back into play).

                          I also find it interesting that Klemp says, "THE CONSCIOUSNESS
                          HERE IN THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY IS AS VALID AS ANY IN
                          THE PAST." [page 184, TWEM] Didn't Klemp say that the Mahanta
                          Consciousness during Paul Twitchell's reign was NOT as high
                          as his is today and this is why much of the PT material is no
                          longer available!

                          Anyway, I'll have to do a summary of that "Wonderful" piece
                          of crap some day.

                          On another note: I will have to say that it's interesting to read
                          about the visitations of JESUS that people had prior to
                          ECKANKAR and later became visitations by Gopal and Fubbi!
                          Now I can see the Gopal thing, sort of, but how in the hell does
                          someone pick FUBBI out when they first thought it was JESUS?
                          [page 36, TWEM] Really, just look at the pictures of Jesus, Gopal
                          and Fubbi and ask yourself, How can a person think they saw
                          JESUS and pick out a picture of FUBBI? Ever hear of - mistake in
                          identity, or needing glasses, or not paying attention to details?

                          And, if that's not bad enough HK even has FUBBI plagiarizing
                          JESUS' and uses JC's conversation with God.

                          FUBBI: 'God, why have you forsaken me?' "After awhile there
                          came a voice. It said, 'My son, I haven't forsaken you. I've been
                          with you through the ages.' And the lightning flashed and the
                          thunder rolled." [page 28, TWEM]

                          Strange, I've never heard of "God" being quoted or speak with
                          contractions like "haven't" or "I've." And this was, supposedly,
                          centuries ago! LOL!

                          One more thing: Isn't it interesting that in most Spiritual Exercises
                          (S.E.) that one is directed to IMAGINE. Yet, in the ECKANKAR Lexicon,
                          on page 136, is this definition of MECHANICAL MANIFESTATION:

                          "LYING, IMAGINATION, THE EXPRESSION OF NEGATIVE EMOTIONS
                          AND UNNECESSARY TALKING."

                          This reminds me of those ECK Vahanas on HU-CHAT. I'm certain
                          that a lot more "Mechanical Manifestation" will be taking place at
                          the 2007 ECK Springtime Seminar.

                          BTW- Why don't the African ECKists go on a pilgrimage to NAMPAK
                          instead of Chanhassen? Isn't Nampak closer for them?

                          "Nampak- Located in Africa, it is one of the ten spiritual cities which
                          are on earth to help the world." [page 146, ECKANKAR Lexicon]

                          Those ECK Masters have been doing a great job "to help the world"
                          haven't they!

                          Prometheus

                          naranjansalibi wrote:
                          >
                          mishmisha wrote:
                          > >
                          Plus, it makes a good impression for the gullible
                          to read this in the bio flap when deciding to purchase the
                          eckancrap books.
                          > >
                          >
                          Hi mish,
                          >
                          > Yeah. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the "who's who in..."
                          > series is a form of vanity press. But I suppose it might seem
                          > legitimate to the kind of people who buy their religion from the
                          > back pages of tv guide and deep cable infomercials.
                          >
                          > I have to say, I've never read any of HKs "books" all the way
                          > through. I could rarely even get through those mystic world notes of
                          > his or the H.I. letters for most of the time I was still getting
                          > them in the mail. It seemed like he was always nursing a black eye,
                          > or a stubbed toe, or grumbling about all the bad, ungrateful,
                          > karmically doomed chelas who just weren't "getting" the awesome
                          > godliness of his slick new reinvented religion. Harold's writings
                          > have always been about as dreary and inspiring as those old catholic
                          > tracts we'd get at church when I was a kid. They'd rant on and on
                          > about abysmally dull things like communism, birth control and
                          > endless booster club fundraisers.
                          >
                          > Harold's talks were a lot like his writing too as I recall. Did you
                          > ever notice that his talks all sounded alike after awhile? I used to
                          > say he was directly channeling "God's own bird-feeder secrets and
                          > kitty cat wisdom". I also remember he would offer lots of good
                          > advice about surviving and "winning" in the harsh game of eck
                          > hierarchy climbing. If you break it down, the spirituality of
                          > eckankar comes pretty much out of a "survival of the fittest/natural
                          > selection" paradigm. (Ironically, that would be considered Darwinian
                          > wouldn't it? - heh-heh).
                          >
                          > Ask any of his followers. They all cast themselves with basically
                          > the same cliche images of dominance. Check it out. Even the way the
                          > LEM has assumed "the rod" each time - always quite contentious and
                          > embattled. Darwin punked Paul by tagging his wife Gail. Harold
                          > knocked Darwin off the hay pile with the heavy guns of public
                          > slander and demonizing, coupled with plenty of legal fire power.
                          > That's the current that runs through - same as it always was. In the
                          > tradition, I wonder how the next one will rise and topple our boy
                          > HK...
                          >
                          > It's funny actually how they get away with selling such obvious
                          > banality with the books, tapes and seminars - while at the same time
                          > convincing the followers they're beyond all the ordinary conventions
                          > and agreements of human life without ever producing a modicum of
                          > proof. Ever notice how everyone in eck sees themselves as an eagle,
                          > or a ram, or a swordsman, while non/ex-eckists are the teeming
                          > masses, the goats, foxes, jackals and worms? (Don't tell them Harold
                          > thinks of them all as a bunch of helpless dewey little chickens in a
                          > hen house.) Ever notice how everyone in eckankar is convinced they
                          > posess the penetrating insight and loftiest overview of the highest -
                          > even while repeatedly and demonstrably WRONG, or merely copping the
                          > off-the-shelf postures and verbiage of their h.i. sub-gurus?
                          >
                          > Ahhh. You gotta love 'em. May the godlings bless their copyrighted
                          > little hearts...
                          >
                          > :->
                          > naranjan's alibi
                          >
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