This is also a question(s) from a RESA.
Q: "I am studying chapter 12, 'The Circles of ECK
Initiations,' in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two.
I hear a few chelas and even some H.I.'s say
initiations aren't important. It doesn't matter
if you are a Second, Third, Fourth, or a Fifth
My question is, how do we answer these chelas?
Is there more I can do as a RESA to help H.I.'s
continue to be a shining example for others in
the area? And finally, is the Fifth Initiation
attainable by all?"
ME: It seems like this RESA is rather inexperienced.
Most chelas say that the initiations aren't important
because they don't want to focus on what they
don't have or on future desires and attachments
to a number. Besides, a higher initiation number
doesn't guarantee that one has a higher
"You pose well-considered questions.
Let's take the issues from the top.
The ECK Initiations are not important?
These people are fooling themselves."
ME: I think that Klemp is doing the fooling!
HK: "The initiations are doorways to heaven.
Without knowing it, they are broadcasting their
own spiritual unworthiness."
ME: What a load of crap! How is it that H.I.
foxes are outside the henhouse if the
initiations are valid? These "unworthy"Eckists
are probably the only ones with a true grasp of
HK: "And how do you answer them? Perhaps the
best response is, 'Are you sure they're not
important?' Then say no more."
ME: Yes, that will show them what's important
and put them in their place! How arrogant and
unfeeling of Klemp! See what he's teaching his
RESAs. Those initiation carrots are important
to keep dangling in front of the suckers.
HK: "What can you do to help H.I.'s continue to
be a shining example for others in the area?
Ask qualified H.I.'s to accept leadership roles."
ME: Some of these same qualified H.I.s are the
foxes raiding the lower initiate henhouse!
HK: "IF one should stumble, point out the error
and help him correct it. Hold each accountable.
BUT also understand that people do stumble,
because living is learning. So give him a chance
to turn around on his own."
ME: So, does this mean that the foxes are to be
given a chance to "turn around" on their own?
Can leopards change their spots too? Really
though... all HK is talking about is Vahana crap!
This has nothing to do with spirituality, but
everything to do with making rank!
HK: "Is the Fifth Initiation attainable by all? Yes,
it is attainable, though not a certainty."
ME: It would have been more interesting to have
asked if the 8th or 9th or 14th was attainable
by all. Of course, the same answer would apply
just not in this lifetime! : )
HK: "And even when one receives it, he may not
reach the true, full initiation, Self-Realization,
for a long time. It depends upon his state of
ME: See! Why should Eckists care about Initiations
when what is really important is one's state of
And, according to Eckankar dogma one has to
attain the 6th before they have completed the
Fifth. The catch is that some of these Kal-Eck H.I.
foxes are fully "Self-Realized" 6ths & 7ths! How
does Klemp explain that away?
It is a sad state for Eckists when their own LEM/
Mahanta emphasizes an initiation number over
true consciousness! The con of Twitchell